Blofeld : Did you want him to escape from Bond,in the helicopter ? And what next ? (SP)

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  • edited November 2017 Posts: 2,918
    Waltz or not, I'd rather they just didn't mention the Oberhauser/brother stuff than go for a contrived "it wasn't the real Blofeld" do-over.

    That would work if Waltz returned as Blofeld. But if Blofeld returns in the next film and he's not played by Waltz, it might look awkward without an explanation, so suggesting Oberhauser was a fake would work. Additionally, "it wasn't the real Blofeld" might be contrived, but at least it recons the horribly stupid idea that Blofeld was Bond's stepbrother.

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    But again-no one has even heard of Blofeld in this timeline. What s the point?
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    Who is Blofeld?
  • Posts: 19,339
    royale65 wrote: »
    Who is Blofeld?

    Eee's James Bond's big bruvva mate,yeah,,cool.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    So he's not the mastermind behind the notorious and secretive SPECTRE? Just some petty loser who thinks his daddy didn't love him, enough?
  • Posts: 19,339
    royale65 wrote: »
    So he's not the mastermind behind the notorious and secretive SPECTRE? Just some petty loser who thinks his daddy didn't love him, enough?

    I'm afraid so.....poor little shit....daddy loved Jimmy not Frannie.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    It's even worse when one types it out...
  • Posts: 19,339
    royale65 wrote: »
    It's even worse when one types it out...

    Hahaha it is ,isn't it ? I was thinking that as I typed it.

  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    I'm a big fan of SP. But that brother angle... Still, it could be worse. When Blofeld says "I'm the author of all your pain" in the trailer, I thought he killed Bond's parents. So, you know. Every cloud....
  • Posts: 19,339
    royale65 wrote: »
    I'm a big fan of SP. But that brother angle... Still, it could be worse. When Blofeld says "I'm the author of all your pain" in the trailer, I thought he killed Bond's parents. So, you know. Every cloud....

    True...to be fair it was only the final third and when they went to London that it goes to pot.

    Before that I was fine with it,i have no problem with the car chase,and the train fight with Hinx was seriously disturbing,seeing Daniel Craig's Bond being beaten to crap !
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    Indeed. I even enjoyed the Bronsan-eqsue plane chase and the scenes in l'Americain (that's when the cinema audience starting playing on the damn phones)
  • Posts: 19,339
    royale65 wrote: »
    Indeed. I even enjoyed the Bronsan-eqsue plane chase and the scenes in l'Americain (that's when the cinema audience starting playing on the damn phones)

    I'm in the minority for liking the plane chase too...if it had a proper Bond score instead of Newman's lazy SF re-use ,it would have made such a difference.

    SP sits at #13 in my rankings atm so not bad.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    SP sits about the same on mine Bazza. Such potential wasted...
  • Posts: 19,339
    royale65 wrote: »
    SP sits about the same on mine Bazza. Such potential wasted...

    That's how I see it,but there are some scenes (that brilliant train fight), and banter that still works...its the only Craig Bond film that is a 'popcorn ' Bond to me.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    Yes, it captures that old school Bond escapade vibe.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Exactly....and I love the way CraigBond walks over the roof tops in the PTS to actually good music for once .
    Amazing to think that Daniel was in serious pain with his knee when he did that scene,he doesn't show anything either with his body or his face.
    Totally professional .
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    I was grinning like an idiot during that scene. Bond swagger and Bond music? Hell yes.
  • Posts: 19,339
    I had high hopes at that stage...the alarm bells first went when Bond was being a sarcastic shit to M,it didn't make sense after how SF finished.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    Yes, there was a bit of a disconnect between those two characters. I felt that Bond was guarding Dench's M and wasn't sure if he could trust Mallory. It was a moot point, but Bond was right about keeping Dench's secret as "C" was had the whole MI6 team under surveillance.
  • Posts: 19,339
    royale65 wrote: »
    Yes, there was a bit of a disconnect between those two characters. I felt that Bond was guarding Dench's M and wasn't sure if he could trust Mallory. It was a moot point, but Bond was right about keeping Dench's secret as "C" was had the whole MI6 team under surveillance.

    I can see how he would want to be protecting DenchM but the way he went about it was wrong when SF made a clean break from it.
  • edited November 2017 Posts: 12,837
    Revelator wrote: »
    Waltz or not, I'd rather they just didn't mention the Oberhauser/brother stuff than go for a contrived "it wasn't the real Blofeld" do-over.

    That would work if Waltz returned as Blofeld. But if Blofeld returns in the next film and he's not played by Waltz, it might look awkward without an explanation, so suggesting Oberhauser was a fake would work. Additionally, "it wasn't the real Blofeld" might be contrived, but at least it recons the horribly stupid idea that Blofeld was Bond's stepbrother.

    I don't think they need to retcon it because it doesn't have to affect the films going forward anyway. All "it wasn't the real Blofeld" would do is muddy things up and make SP feel redundant. Plus why would Oberhauser pretend to be Blofeld if nobody knows who Blofeld is? And come up with a whole little backstory about it being his mothers name?

    I'd prefer it if they just recast. If they have to explain it they could go the plastic surgery route, he's completely different every time in the books after all.
    barryt007 wrote: »
    royale65 wrote: »
    Yes, there was a bit of a disconnect between those two characters. I felt that Bond was guarding Dench's M and wasn't sure if he could trust Mallory. It was a moot point, but Bond was right about keeping Dench's secret as "C" was had the whole MI6 team under surveillance.

    I can see how he would want to be protecting DenchM but the way he went about it was wrong when SF made a clean break from it.

    Love the film but that really bothers me as well. He has no reason not to trust Mallory and he's such a smug prick about it. The whole scene is like the cocky kid in class winding up an overly strict teacher. I think it must be a hangover from when M was written as a traitor because then him going rogue would have been justified in hindsight, but in the finished film it doesn't work at all. If he was protecting him then it should have been written/played much differently. As it stands Bond just comes across as a needlessly antagonistic bellend in that scene.
  • Posts: 2,918
    I don't think they need to retcon it because it doesn't have to affect the films going forward anyway.

    Sure, but it would at least walk back of one of the stupidest ideas ever perpetrated in a Bond film. I think that's worthwhile enough.
    All "it wasn't the real Blofeld" would do is muddy things up and make SP feel redundant.

    Two worthy goals.
    Plus why would Oberhauser pretend to be Blofeld if nobody knows who Blofeld is? And come up with a whole little backstory about it being his mothers name?

    Let's posit that Blofeld's name was known and respected in the underworld as the shadowy kingpin of Spectre, the world's premier terrorist organization. Oberhauser, being a crazy power-seeking little fantasist, decides to pretend he's the little-seen Blofeld--much as Blofeld pretended to be the reclusive Willard Whyte in DAF--and makes up a stupid story about his mother's name (which was really Schicklgruber or something equally awful). I'd prefer all that to waving things away with plastic surgery.
  • edited November 2017 Posts: 12,837
    I just think it's way too contrived a way of explaining something the audience won't even remember. And Blofeld being a known name doesn't work because the whole point was that nobody had heard of him or Spectre. "No James, I'm the real Blofeld", "oh, okay, makes no odds to me, never heard of you until Franz used that name. Hang on, didn't he got it from his mum?". "Oh yeah well, he made that up. It was really me who did all that stuff, forget the last film, mwahaha". No thanks.

    Plastic surgery is in keeping with the character. In the Fleming books he's basically a new person every time. Blofeld is one of the few characters you could really get away with a recast with imo, and they don't really have to address a potential recast anyway, they could easily just cast a similar actor and not mention it ala OHMSS. So I don't see any reason for them to address the foster brother stuff at all. Just let us all forget about it, easy enough since it's such an afterthought in SP already.

    But really, if Waltz isn't back I have a feeling we'll be looking at a new villain. I think that the success of Logan means that we might get an old man Bond coming out of retirement movie, but it'll be to face a new bad guy. Or at least one we haven't seen before.
  • Posts: 2,918
    I just think it's way too contrived a way of explaining something the audience won't even remember.

    If Blofeld is forgotten about for a few films, sure. If he reappears in the next film played by someone new, audiences will remember and want to know why the new guy is there. Plastic surgery is no less contrived an explanation and a more cliched one.
    And Blofeld being a known name doesn't work because the whole point was that nobody had heard of him or Spectre.

    No, all we know is that Bond and the SIS hadn't heard of Blofeld, though they had been dealing with various Spectre operations. We don't know if Blofeld was known to the sort of people who were in Ellipsis or Quantum (the terrorist elite).
    "No James, I'm the real Blofeld", "oh, okay, makes no odds to me, never heard of you until Franz used that name. Hang on, didn't he got it from his mum?". "Oh yeah well, he made that up. It was really me who did all that stuff, forget the last film, mwahaha". No thanks.

    If that was the actual dialogue I'd say no thanks too. But I also have the feeling that Blofeld won't appear in the next film. Dealing with a new villain would require fewer explanations.
  • edited November 2017 Posts: 12,837
    Well he was known to Quantum. White knew him, and it was Franz. We've seen him sat at the head of the table at the meeting, the others basically worshipping him. He was Blofeld. End of. We've already had one forced retcon, retconning that is only going to make the whole thing a mess. The brother stuff wasn't a very good idea but it didn't have much of an impact on the film and it's done now. Lets just forget about it and move on. No need to draw attention to it with some contrived attempt at undoing it.

    And cliched maybe but it was good enough for Fleming. They could turn it into a sort of gimmick actually, play up the idea that once he disappears he could be anyone. There isn't really much to him as a villain beside generic evil mastermind so a new angle like that could add to the character.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Blofeld in the shadows,the puppet master..orchestrating,thats where he really belongs atm.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    If they bring Blofeld back then they can just call him Blofeld and get on with business as usual without needing to reference stepbrothergate.

    That, at least, is the one saving grace of SP's dog turd of a script - they make all this effort to come up with the bullshit twist of them being brothers only for Bond not to give the slightest toss (bear in mind Fleming's Bond hunted down Major Dexter Smythe for killing Hannes) about any of it. He never refers to it again and is happy to call him Blofeld both to M and to his face.

    What's the point of pouring a vat of urine over Fleming's grave to give us this big personal revelation for Bond when his reaction is basically:

    giphy.gif

    That's the thing about the brother 'twist'; you could erase it in a couple of lines and it wouldn't make the slightest bit of difference to the rest of the film so if it has no bearing on the relationship between Bond and Blofeld why is it there? Only because every film has to have a personal connection for Bond these days.

    The more time that passes SP's script actually gets worse. Analysing it is like constantly picking at a scab which gets infected and starts oozing pus before eventually turning gangrenous.
  • Posts: 15,127
    Well he was known to Quantum. White knew him, and it was Franz. We've seen him sat at the head of the table at the meeting, the others basically worshipping him. He was Blofeld. End of. We've already had one forced retcon, retconning that is only going to make the whole thing a mess. The brother stuff wasn't a very good idea but it didn't have much of an impact on the film and it's done now. Lets just forget about it and move on. No need to draw attention to it with some contrived attempt at undoing it.

    And cliched maybe but it was good enough for Fleming. They could turn it into a sort of gimmick actually, play up the idea that once he disappears he could be anyone. There isn't really much to him as a villain beside generic evil mastermind so a new angle like that could add to the character.

    This is pretty much how I feel about the whole thing. Bad decision but have to live with it. Trying to invent a new Blofeld while retconning the one in SP to Oberhauser would only create more issues. And it's one aspect of the Blofeld character not the whole character. I would argue that it's not even central to SP or at least superfluous. So it can easily be ignored and forgotten in future movies.
  • Posts: 4,617
    With over 7 billion people on the planet, someone, somewhere has a great Bond script in them. The producers need to find them rather going down the lazy route (again).
  • Posts: 676
    That's the thing about the brother 'twist'; you could erase it in a couple of lines and it wouldn't make the slightest bit of difference to the rest of the film so if it has no bearing on the relationship between Bond and Blofeld why is it there? Only because every film has to have a personal connection for Bond these days.
    You're right that the idea doesn't matter within the film and should have been removed, but unfortunately the personal connection isn't quite contained to a couple lines. Bond broods on the fact that he knows Oberhauser several times before meeting him. He talks to Moneypenny and Q about it too.
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