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Bond shouldn't move with the times
Up until the end of Dalton's era, the Bonds has similar attitudes towards women and a certain 'class' as Sanchez pointed out. I think the producers missed a trick in having Bond's views move with the times. It's making him too generic and actually having a fish out water situation at times could have been interesting for the character and produced some comedy.
I'm not talking about making a big political point about it, and of course the Bonds will have some personality differences (for example Dalton was not a womaniser), but to me the change since Dalton era and particularly in the Craig era is very noticeable. Bond's views and attitudes should be from Fleming as far as possible; anything else and you are taking Bond away from the real McCoy.
I'm not talking about making a big political point about it, and of course the Bonds will have some personality differences (for example Dalton was not a womaniser), but to me the change since Dalton era and particularly in the Craig era is very noticeable. Bond's views and attitudes should be from Fleming as far as possible; anything else and you are taking Bond away from the real McCoy.
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Comments
I think GE was an attempt at putting the old school Bond into the contemporary world. I remember when Pierce was cast Mickey G said part of the fun of the character is that Bond isn't exactly a PC character..or something to that effect. Be nice to see more of that in the future.
Doubtful due to the feminist movement and societal changes over the last fifty years or so.
Yes. And slap her arse as she goes!
Then he lights his 40th cigarette of the day.
For me, it´s not about being as close to Fleming as possible. The charme of Bond is that he´s far from being a role model, yet still it´s great fun to watch him do his work.
Un-pc elements should be used to a better effect. The biggest-selling Bond film in recent decades played to such a degree with Bond having emotional instabilities that it seems hypocritical to have him avoid cigarettes and benzedrine or something more contemporary along that line. Give M some real reason to scold Bond, not such lame things as "Mexico city. What happened".
I get that Bond should be somewhat outdated, but he should still be credible enough to be of working age within a modern mi6. As time goes by, surely we will see less of those "man's world" comments.
A great moment for me post-Dalton is in GE when Bond is visibly surprised by Natalya's computer skills in the train and simply responds "yes sir" when she barks at him.
It's similar to the very end of LTK when Pam tells Bond to get in the truck.
I think one of the best examples is in CR when Bond tells Vesper to walk in wearing that dress to distract the other players but it ends up backfiring and Bond is the one distracted by her!
Earlier in the film Bond seduces Solange simply to get information which in turn results in her murder. Something the Bond character has always done.
Having worked in an office and within a female oriented environment myself, I wouldn't necessarily agree that sexism has been completely eradicated today, on both sides that is. As let's not forget women can also be sexist towards men, too, but that's always quietly brushed under the carpet, much like wives that beat their husbands.
I think it's easy to forget, and this is aimed at younger audiences, that Bond is a male fantasy figure and a caricature playboy; and as such things like "man talk" and slapping a girl on the rear were a male fantasy, and something that only Bond could've gotten away with on screen, even back in 64. That's what made him unique and attractive to other men. Also, if I recall correctly, Bond was never sexist in the work environment, only out in the field where anything is game. Certainly before George Orwell's 1984 became a reality post-Dalton age.
We obviusly haven't seen the same movies. In TLD, he definitely shag the woman on the boat, and who knows what he did with Kara on the big wheel or in her dressing room. And in LTK, both Pam (on the boat) and Lupe are shagged by Bond. Of course, it's shown discreetly, but the clues are there.
I think that moment in GE was meant to be more light hearted. I always liked Brosnan's reaction - clearly impressed but surprised by her feistiness.
@Bondsum. That's very true about Dalton's Bond. However, the shifting opinion on smoking showed itself (a little) even in LTK with the warning over the end credits and Pam confessing to not having a cigarette for 5 years.
I think it's actually quite ironic that the last time we saw Bond himself smoke was during the Cuba scenes in DAD.
That's also a fair comment about sexism not being completely eradicated in the workplace. Nonetheless, the idea of females in higher, more authoritative positions within government or as law enforcers, authority figures etc perhaps isn't as unusual as it might have been in earlier times.
I think the idea was that Bond wasn't a "serial shagger" like Sean, George or Rog before him. Also, in Lupe's case it was she who seduced him.
https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2014/feb/08/ian-fleming-sky-atlantic-james-bond
@BAIN, I have no idea how many women were in the SIS (MI6) in earlier times as it was only acknowledged to exist in 1994 by the John Major government. I'm not sure if it's public record or not? Though I do find it hard to believe there were no women in high authority roles before then, especially as we'd just had a female PM and there had been numerous women in both political parties long before then. The only reason Judi Dench was cast in the role of M was due to Stella Rimington having the real life role of Director General of MI6 (92 to 96).
By the way, @BAIN, I'm not necessarily in favour of women in high profile positions, as some of the ones I've worked for in the publishing world have been absolute bloody tyrants, and in fact a lot worse than any of the men in identical or similar positions.
When I said "earlier times" I meant more in Fleming's era/the 60s and 70s really - basically before the likes of Thatcher (I do wonder what Fleming/Bond would have thought of her).
I do take your point though.
I suppose my original point about whether Bond should move with the times is that, providing the series continues into the future, HE HAS to move with the times...to a point. He has to be a man that you can believe exists in the contemporary world.
On the whole I think the series has done that fairly well.
Well James Bond meets PM Margaret Thatcher (along with Gorbachev and President Bush Snr.) on board HMS Invincible in John Gardner's Win, Lose or Die (1989) and she also features in Scorpius (1988).
Ah. I've not read those :p
Not to worry. There's not too much interaction there anyway. And Thatcher featured at the end of FYEO too, I suppose where "Bond" seemed to love her!
I agree. I disliked these moments very much as well. Despite loving this film, I think it was too heavy on the 'fem' commentary and Bond seemed like a wuss. Thankfully Brosnan underplayed (I can't believe I'm saying this about him) it. Really it was in TND that things began to get out of hand, beginning with the slap, which was done again in TWINE for further humiliation (he really should have seen it coming in both cases).
"Well then you're an idiot."
"I'm sorry?!" (aka wtf did you just say to me?)
"I said you're a bloody idiot. Look in my eyes. I can beat this man. You know that"
Also, this discussion made me think of a line in SP that I really loved, when he is in the mountain clinic at the bar, and the man working there tries to give Bond some sort of kale green fruit smoothie and Bond says: "Do me a favor, will you? Throw that down the toilet. Cut out the middleman." Its sort of anti-gluten-free, which i like.
I think that SF did a great job at capturing Bond as he was in the books, drinking and sleeping around, but in SF, he seems miserable while he's doing it, like, look at him the morning after the scorpion trick party, he's so bored and sad looking at that bar. I don't think Bond from the books is as melancholy as Craig's Bond is. Bond is supposed to enjoy himself as much as he can within his lonely profession, like Sean and Roger did.
I haven't seen anything yet that would make me scream "aaa stupid PC BS!!" from the movies yet so....idk so far so good I guess..
Even though it's only noon!
Therein lies the problem of displaying modernity and keeping anachronism at one and the same time!