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A little thought I had in mind...

DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
edited October 2011 in General Discussion Posts: 15,718
Here we are, a large group of people, of friends, agreeing and disagreeing on all things about the world of James Bond. We discuss, we debate, but in the end, we are all fans of this wonderful franchise and character.

But, sometimes, we disagree. And then it's a battle... no, a friendly battle of opinions, comments and arguments. In the end, most here will conclude in 'we'll agree to disagree'.

And then there is crossing the line of friendly discussions. There is one argument that I have read here many times, that I feel is disrepectiful of people's opinions.
When someone say 'Well, the majority likes this Bond actor/Bond film', 'Only a minority of people doesn't like this Bond actor/Bond film', that I think is crossing the line of respect we always find between members here.

If we followed that argument, well no-one could hate FRWL, GF, TB, TLD or CR on these boards, and no-one could love YOLT, DAF, TMWTGG, MR, AVTAK or DAD. So I must ask : what is the purpose of this community if we are disallowing opinions because only a minority of people agree with these opinions ? Are we disallowing someone to not like Connery, or to love MR ? Who are we to say that such opinion is not correct ?

I think this community is a great one, and the members who come here from a welcoming and joyful bunch. Let's not disrespect, disallow other's opinions. We are here to discuss and debate, not to have endless bickering.

I admit I, for one, have sometimes fallen in the trap of disrespect, and I feel that I didn't follow the spirit of this community. I am sorry about that, and I urge others to not fall in the same trap.

So, let's carry on in our discussions, debates, games, rankings... And let's enjoy the world of James Bond while waiting for 'Bond 23' in November 2012 !

A cheers for the community and it's members !

<img src="http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/3324/trgefeliciteerd.gif">;

(PS : I did not intend here to act like a mod, but just express a feeling I had.)

Comments

  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    edited October 2011 Posts: 7,854
    totally joking post

    Whoa, whoa, whoa, you want me to cheer for these people? What the [bleep] is wrong with you?

    end totally joking post

    Yeah, you guys are all great.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    edited October 2011 Posts: 8,266
    Well, the basics of discussion tell us that you need valid arguments to base your opinion on. Obviously, ' the majority likes' isn't much of an argument as it tells us little about how you feel. Still, I wouldn't see it as 'crossing the line', as you stated it. It isn't disrespecting to anyone. It just doesn't help the discussion at all. If history teaches us anything, it is that millions can be mislead. Anyway, we're talking about opinions, which makes such an argument completely and utterly useless.

    But there's a catch. Most of the times these arguments come up at a moment where someone else has made a similarly bad supported argument. So it helps to look back at your own presumtions and see if you backed anything you said that could've triggered such a reaction.

    Anyway, though I'm seldom around here anymore, I still love the atmosphere. It's a good place and posts like these, where we discuss where boundaries lie, help.
  • Risico007Risico007
    Posts: 9,847
    I like discussion as every once and a while we can find a common line that we agree on for instance I love the hard edginess of Casino Royale and Quantum of solace


    you love the fun of the Moore era

    solution after much discussion we both agree if Skyfall was like From Russia With Love we'd both be happy.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I have in fact also fallen victim to the "trap" as you have seen @DC007. This is a really awesome and diverse community hear, and I enjoy coming to MI6. I have to understand that while I like Connery and Craig as Bond and dislike Moore's take, others like Dalton or Brosnan more and like the comedy that Moore put in. I need to stop trying to convert members. So, to anyone who I've been out of line to before, I apologize and I will definitely work on this problem for the future.

    Thanks @DC007, great thread and kudos for sharing your feelings uncensored. ;-)
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    i respect the opinions of those who respect mine - then it's all one big circle of understanding - hugs - love - and lemonade :-D

    ... sometimes though it is hard to not fall into that trap, it's like sometimes myself can take someone's differing opinion as a personal stab - which it isn't.. but if i've been having a rough day - then thats usually my mental outcome lol.... but i just gotta step back, breath, and realize - that not everyone operates on the same wave length - it's just the way it is...

    DC - you sir and I agree on a lot, and disagree on a lot... but you have my respect as i would like to think i have yours...

  • shadowonthesunshadowonthesun Banned
    Posts: 1,894
    All I can say is that iff you expect respect, you should be the first to show it. And I, for one, don't mind admitting that there are some people around here who I respect considerably more than others simply because of the level of respect those people have shown for other members in the past.
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    All I can say is that iff you expect respect, you should be the first to show it. And I, for one, don't mind admitting that there are some people around here who I respect considerably more than others simply because of the level of respect those people have shown for other members in the past.
    exactly..

  • LudsLuds MIA
    edited October 2011 Posts: 1,986
    When someone say 'Well, the majority likes this Bond actor/Bond film', 'Only a minority of people doesn't like this Bond actor/Bond film', that I think is crossing the line of respect we always find between members here.
    I appreciate the thoughts about respect, DC, but regarding this, I think it's a perfectly valid statement.

    Saying that "Liking" Movie X, Actor X, Song X is within the minority of Bond fans on the site isn't disrespectful as long as negativity isn't part of the minority implication.

    I myself know that I'm in the overwhelming majority who
    - Loves Sean Connery
    - Loves Connery's movies
    - Finds DAD to be one of the worst Bond flicks

    And so on. Same could be said about me being in the minority regarding
    - Liking AVTAK, TMWTGG, MR
    - Disliking TSWLM
    - Finding Dalton to be a top 2 Bond
    Etc.

    If you aren't a fan of DC and his flicks, you must be reasonably aware of the tastes of the demographics on this site no doubt, that Craig is very much liked and so is CR, doesn't mean you have to or not following the trend makes you a bad guy.

  • OHMSS69OHMSS69
    Posts: 2,341
    We are all Bond purists and agree for the most part. There are some areas where we disagree but for the most part I think we could all sit down and have a beer, play cards, discuss Bond and not come to fisticuffs.
  • SirHenryLeeChaChingSirHenryLeeChaChing
    edited October 2011 Posts: 3,494
    Well said Luds. After reading DC's thoughts, of which I am reasonably sure may "possibly" pertain to me, among others, I have a few of my own that likely mirror your own.

    1. No matter whether we agree or disagree regarding a Bond movie, soundtrack, etc, it IS important at the end of the day to remember that no one here is a "bad guy" for having an opinion. At least not in my book. I leave the crushing of opinions to the North Korea's and Al-Qaeda's of the world. I leave the determination of if someone is a bad guy or not to the law and the Divine. The meaning of a Forum is to state and debate your opinion with others. Sometimes one does indeed have a bad day and comes here and rants about someone or something, and someone's feelings get hurt. I've done it myself. Sometimes I've regretted what I said, other times not. But I've come to realize that it's better to walk away and take some chill pills and revisit it in a better frame of mind so I will never have any regrets because I hate to be wrong :-))

    2. When you are in the majority, it's almost a natural fact in a democracy that the "majority rules". That does not mean the majority is right, but that's the way it often is. To be in the minority and to voice your opinion means that you had better be ready to debate and defend your position in a way that validates what you have to say. When the minority is truly right, the majority will eventually come around to that way of thinking. OHMSS is a perfect example of that within the series. For years it was reviled, and I am guilty of that sentiment, but it's a fantastic film and one of the best in the series. I still think Lazenby was far from the best Bond, but some love the guy. I can present lots of reasons why I feel how I do in the ultimate comparison to the other Bonds, who were and are far more accomplished as actors. At the end of the day, I'm still going to feel I'm right in my rationale and fail to grasp their rationale towards why they feel I am wrong, but at the end of the day it's just a personal opinion and nothing more.

    @ DC- I do not hate you as a person, I have no right because I do not know you well enough to reasonably have that opinion and in the spirit of conciliation, I wish to act like a man and apologize publicly for calling you a "bad fan". That came from my perception, and often one's perception becomes one's reality, that you and others were wholly negative towards positive views and arguments about the Craig movies and David Arnold, and refuse to acknowledge valid points and opinions to the contrary. For example, I can understand why you hold Arnold in little regard just by your posts about your background. You are obviously a tremendously talented musician to be attending a conservatory, and you are trained to focus on music in a technical sense. How I know this is because, once upon a time long ago lol, I had the option to attend the famous Berklee School in Boston. If I think solely in technical terms, then I see where you are coming from. At the same time, allowing technicality to be the absolute rule often puts up barriers to feel and emotion when it comes to romantic pieces, which can be far less technical yet inherently better in many ways than a technical piece in the same vein. I think that you must hear the layers and emotion in "City Of Lovers" and "Vesper's Theme" as well as I do, yet you refuse to acknowledge that he did a great job with these and the title theme and settle for calling the soundtrack "appalling" because you don't feel he is "accomplished" enough to accomplish anything of note. I'm not trying to start an argument or invalidate your opinion so please just consider this without taking offense, but I feel that you could be a little more flexible and kinder to opinions contrary to your own and could try harder to be more positive. I know that with me at least, that would go a long way. As it stands now, I go out of my way to avoid commenting on what you say due to my perception that debating with you is a waste of my time for the reasons I have elaborated. I hope that will change.

    I realize I am far from perfect either, and am willing to accept constructive criticisms. I can be a bit of a snob at times because I am an original fan from the Connery days, and tend to think at times that I know more than the younger people around here because I've probably seen the films many more times. So I try to watch for and remember that, and if I must approach someone whose opinion appears to clueless and not well thought out, I try to do it in a way that hopefully will get them to see things in a more positive way. Well, that's my rant. If anyone feels I can be a better member, I'm willing to listen and try. At the end of the day, we're all brothers and sisters in Bond, and that is why this is such a special place for me to spend some time.










  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    I think it's imperative to understand people need to keep favorites and pet hates to Bond movies and all they entail, and not necessarily other participants

    There's no ambiguity on this issue
  • SeveSeve The island of Lemoy
    Posts: 424


    And then there is crossing the line of friendly discussions. There is one argument that I have read here many times, that I feel is disrepectiful of people's opinions.
    When someone say 'Well, the majority likes this Bond actor/Bond film', 'Only a minority of people doesn't like this Bond actor/Bond film', that I think is crossing the line of respect we always find between members here.
    I think the majority of people would disagree with you about that being "disrespectful"

    (sorry, I couldn't resist)


    ;-)
  • QsAssistantQsAssistant All those moments lost in time... like tears in rain
    Posts: 1,812
    After reading some of the comments here I've finally worked up the courage to come out of the closet. Guys I... (takes a deep breath) I love "Die Another Day"... That felt good.

    Joking aside, I actually do like DAD. At first it really did make me mad that the majority on here hate that movie. You just have to remember it's not about what others like, it's about what you like and you just have to go along with the jokes and when you feel you have to defend what you like, then do it and in a nice manner.
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