MI6 Community Bondathon

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  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Mads' very serpentine looks really add so much to that character. A fantastic, fantastic choice. He can be so slimy, like the, "Oops," he says to Bond while he shows a winning hand or basically the entire torture sequence.
  • JohnHammond73JohnHammond73 Lancashire, UK
    Posts: 4,151
    Birdleson wrote: »
    @Shark_0f_Largo Hope you enjoy your new home.

    Thank you kindly. Us too. We need a fresh start. So much happened in 3.5 years living where we are (,mother's passed away aMonday other things), culminating in our attached neighbour trashing her house, setting it alight purposely and putting my family and I in danger. Crazy stuff.

  • Good grief! Best of luck in the new place.
  • JohnHammond73JohnHammond73 Lancashire, UK
    Posts: 4,151
    Good grief! Best of luck in the new place.

    Thank you. A very much needed move.
    Birdleson wrote: »
    It just hit me, I'm sure everyone else thought of this long ago,with CASINO ROYALE, in two consecutive Bond films 007 pretends to be making out with a woman to avoid drawing attention to himself from nearby villains. I'll add it to my Final Thoughts above.

    Nice spot, didn't actually notice myself when watching.
  • edited March 2017 Posts: 3,566
    It’s been great to see so much well considered discussion of Casino Royale this week. The film deserves no less. This is unquestionably the best Bond film since the early, glory days of Connery and Young; moreover, it’s the “first” Bond story that so many of us have been longing to see put on film since those halcyon times. Daniel Craig may be more of the “blunt instrument” Bond than the “charming, sophisticated secret agent” that Valentin Zukovsky described at the beginning of Brosnan’s tenure as 007 -- but his is unquestionably a valid interpretation of the character, one that we will get to see grow into the Bond that we’ve known and admired for all these years.

    There were a substantial number of doubters when Craig was first announced as the new Bond. He just didn’t look like Bond, James Bond -- at least not for a sizable faction of Bond fandom. I understood where these folks were coming from, but decided I’d give the new fellow a chance and see how he turned out. I appreciated the B&W opening for CR, recognizing the visual hint that “this takes place a while ago, don’t ask when, it doesn’t really matter.” When Craig spoke the line, “I know where you keep your gun,” my mental response was, “This is going to be an interesting Bond. Different…but very interesting.” And somewhere in the middle of the parkour chase, I thought: “DAMN! They’re pulling out all the stops for this one -- and the movie’s just started!”

    “You Know My Name,” promised the theme song, visually coupled with one of Daniel Kleinman’s most evocative title sequences. Yes, we know…even if it took to the very last moment of the film for Craig to utter the requisite line. This is a Bond film that glories in its ability to rework the standard Bond tropes. “Do I look like I give a damn?” Well, of course you do…eventually. Right now you’re in the process of figuring out what matters…and what matters is, a great Fleming novel to adapt; a memorable new interpretation of the 007 character, a strong hold-over from the previous entries in this venerable series with Judy Dench’s M; a sleazy bad guy, no, make that SEVERAL sleazy bad guys; some gorgeous ladies…and several top-flight action sequences. Toss in the initial creation of Bond’s famous shaken-not-stirred vodka martini and you’ve got a cracking great Bond film.

    I have one heretical admission to make here: I’m just not enamored of Eva Green as Vesper. There is a haunted quality about her eyes that suits her character perfectly well given our knowledge of her fate according to Fleming…but it makes it hard for me to warm up to her. Solange, on the other hand -- YUM! She looks like she’s been poured into that red dress, with just a dollop extra so that she’s nearly spilling out of it here and there. Mads Mikkelsen may not be Peter Lorre -- of the three interpretations we've seen of LeChiffre, I think Lorre's is the one that most reminds me of Fleming's character -- but he's a darned good Bond villain, so in Mr. Lorre's absence I'll happily take Mr. Mikkelsen over Mr. Wells.

    One question most of us were probably asking ourselves fairly early on in the proceedings: are they REALLY going to go with THAT SCENE? How can they get away with it? You know the scene. Yes, they did, and yes, they got away with it brilliantly. I’ll agree with several folks here: the fight at the sinking house in Venice might have been just a wee bit longer than really necessary…but for the most part, this film is just about as perfect as a Bond film can be. I appreciate the fact that our storytellers have improved on the Fleming original here, and that’s not easy to do: they make Bond responsible for LeChiffre’s initial financial reversal, necessitating the game at Casino Royale so that he can replace the money lost…and they also give us Vesper’s death on-camera, rather than just handing Bond a suicide note that explains everything. Actually, they establish a fair number of things visually that should be pretty difficult to pull off without drowning the audience in exposition. Bond’s use of cell phones, computer tracking and the hotel’s security video tapes to locate the bad guys could have led to a whole lot of confusion on the part of Joe & Jane Moviegoer; instead, the trail of deductions and computer hacking gets only a “How does he KNOW these things?” from Dench’s M while the audience chortles and doesn’t seem to notice that there IS just a tad bit of “computers are magical, didntcha know?” in the brew here.

    The main point of this film, in establishing Bond at the beginning of his career, is not how he learned to tell the difference between dinner jackets and dinner jackets…but how he learned who to trust and who not to trust, and how he teaches others that they need to trust him. Felix Leiter trusts him implicitly from very early on…even if he wants the bartender to hold the fruit, Felix still knows that Bond CAN beat LeChiifre. M seems to constantly need to re-learn the lesson, in this film and the next and all the way to Skyfall she has her doubts about Bond’s judgment and his abilities. Vesper falls in love with Bond and is willing to give up her Algerian love-knot necklace…but she’s still going to give the money to Mr. White’s people. And Bond? Oh, he’s still got a lot to learn on this topic. He still mistrusts Mathis by the end of this film. He trusts Vesper when he shouldn’t and puts his armor back on to declare “the bitch is dead” when he should be checking that last little clue she left for him. The complexity of shifting allegiances in CR is one of the film’s many attributes. It’s a topic that will be utilized in the next film as well.
  • edited March 2017 Posts: 3,566
    MY CURRENT STANDINGS
    1) Goldfinger
    2) From Russia With Love
    3) Casino Royale
    4) On Her Majesty’s Secret Service
    5) Goldeneye
    6) The Spy Who Loved Me
    7) The Living Daylights
    8) Thunderball
    9) Dr. No
    10) For Your Eyes Only
    11) Tomorrow Never Dies
    12) You Only Live Twice
    13) Octopussy
    14) License to Kill
    15) Live And Let Die
    16) The World Is Not Enough
    17) A View to a Kill
    18) DiamondsAre Forever
    19) Moonraker
    20) The Man With the Golden Gun
    21) Die Another Day
  • JohnHammond73JohnHammond73 Lancashire, UK
    Posts: 4,151
    That's a great read Beatles.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    To this day, that torture scene is insane. It's redundant to call it a great Craig performance, but seriously. You can see him go from feeling absolutely spine-shattering pain, then watch him committing to die a smart arse to the very end, then shift to complete fear and resignation when he hears Vesper being hurt. Then he goes smart arse again. Because it's Dan.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    Casino Royale:

    JAMES BOND:

    While Craig may not have had the easiest go at it for his first step into the shoes of 007, no doubt due to a long hiatus combined with some detractors who disliked a blonde Bond, he comes in and makes the role his own with expert precision in his debut film, all assisted by the wonderful direction of Martin Campbell. He emits such a cool, calm demeanor about him, showcasing a wide range of emotion in many scenes throughout. He delivers in the quieter moments, he succeeds in showing why Bond is the best in the action department, he's a hit with the ladies, and he's so effortlessly cool in that tuxedo, it's hard not to love him. I'll be in the minority with this, but I think he exudes more range and emotion during the torture sequence than he showcases in the entirety of SP. I'd say this is my favorite "acted" film of Craig's era - QoS may be my favorite, but he's just so good in this, it's impossible not to be impressed by his work.

    TITLE SEQUENCE:

    Incredible stuff, this, and also one of my favorites. The entire deck of cards/gambling motif throughout is a nice touch, and I love the parallels throughout that seem to connect to the film in certain ways, like the shot of the guy falling and exploding into a bunch of different diamonds, which is similar to the crane worker falling and exploding during the parkour chase, or the shot of Bond sprinting and taking cover and firing, which is somewhat akin to him running past the pillars and avoiding the machine gun fire during the finale. There's also the shot of someone falling, hitting the roulette table, and continuing their fall, which is reminiscent of Bond's tumble off the second crane, though that may be a bit of a stretch.

    TITLE SONG:

    I'm a huge fan of Cornell's work here (as I've always been), and a rock song is a wonderful way to kick things off, and is something I'd love to see return in the near future, as opposed to a ballad or anything that's more slowed down.

    BOND GIRLS:

    Vesper Lynd: There aren't any women that come to mind that I feel could've nailed the role of Vesper - or had better chemistry than her and Craig had - than the beautiful Eva Green. For the Bond series, her introduction on the train and the subsequent scene they share together over a dinner is a masterclass of acting and direction; as they spend dinner reading one another and trying to discern just who the other is, they get low blows and slight digs in on one another, and the beauty of it all is that Bond seems to know just what type of woman she is, without realizing who she REALLY is. She does well at playing cold and rather disinterested, until a fight in a stairwell and the sight of blood shake her up enough to put her into a more fragile, humanized state, which gives us the beautiful, touching shower scene (this is how you stay Bondian without going overboard on the emotion. I've always liked seeing Bond have a sweeter side with a Bond girl when he knows she's had too much, such as Bond taking Manuela home after she's attacked by Jaws in MR.) Even past the fact that it's Vesper Lynd, so you know her and Bond will inevitably fall in love, she sells it oh so well, and the aforementioned chemistry the two have only seems to get stronger and tougher throughout. I truly believe they could've lived their lives together in happiness, their acting says so much.

    Solange Dimitrios: What a beauty, this one, and past Vesper, she might be the most "classic" and lovable Bond girl in the Craig era. I always enjoy seeing Bond use a bad guy's woman at his disposal, both for some sex and for some key information that can help him out. Of course, the woman always knows what type of scumbag she's with, and is easy to betray him for a good-hearted killing machine like James Bond. Some key moments I love: her entrance into the casino, Bond "taking her to his home," and their moments spent on the floor at Bond's villa.

    Valenka: Another one that's tough for me to speak too much about, simply because she's another background character that is only moved to the forefront when it serves the story (such as her poisoning Bond's drink - sinister enough, but thankfully the right drink was delivered. I've always said I think it would've been better if the drink was accidentally served to one of the other players, who rushes off to the bathroom and later dies, and Bond realizes just how deadly a simple poker game can be, once he notices the drink was obviously meant for him.)

    A good moment she gets on-screen is her near amputation in Le Chiffre's room, for that's when she seems to showcase the most emotion. I also love the following line once Obanno stops short of taking her arm: "Not a word of protest...you should find a new boyfriend." I bet Le Chiffre enjoyed apologizing for that one.

    BOND ALLIES:

    Rene Mathis: I'm a big fan of Giancarlo Giannini, so I can't complain in the slightest about having him play the greatest ally of Bond's in the Craig era. They hit it off so well, two professionals working together and tricking those around them so they can make their own mission ever-so-slightly easier. I think their chemistry is even better in QoS, and I'm glad that Mathis wasn't mysteriously sidelined toward the end of this, just to never make a return. He's a wonderful character, my only complaint being that he didn't get to stick around in Bond's world longer than he did.

    Felix Leiter: Jeffrey Wright makes for a cool Leiter, that's for sure, and as usual with CR, the only shame in it is that he isn't a bit more present. Then again, this is a rookie Bond meeting him for the first time, working off the source material where Leiter may not have been heavily present in the first place, so it does make sense. He's another one that needed a return in the near future, and thankfully, we got that with QoS - whether that'll be his last installment, however, remains to be seen, but I certainly hope it isn't the case.

    M/MP/Q:

    M: I always enjoyed that they retained Judi Dench for this, keeping at least one connection from the eras of old to this new, revitalized one. Her relationship with a rookie version of Bond who is learning the ropes himself is terrifically done, as are the quieter moments between the two, particularly the scenes at her house and the briefing of Le Chiffre/the card game at Casino Royale. She's given enough screentime to make the points that need to be made, without going overboard and having her featured as a key player, which I always love.

    MP: Could've been good, if someone had cast her.

    Q: Also could've been good, if someone had been cast.

    VILLAIN/HENCHMEN:

    Le Chiffre: The main baddie. I can't say with confidence that Mads Mikkelsen was known to me before 2006, so having his first introduction to my eyes being that of a wonderful Bond villain is great, and I've admired his work ever since. He's one of several bad guys throughout the series to get his own unique trait in the form of a tear duct that occasionally seeps out blood, although I'm pretty sure this was an original idea and not one of Fleming's - ashamed to say I haven't read the novel in a good while, but I don't recall this detail present.

    Mr. White: White immediately seems like the right-hand man of Le Chiffre's, until you realize that there is a bigger game afoot and he's the underling for someone possibly much more deadly. Of course, at the time, nobody expected any of this to eventually retcon into the appearance of SPECTRE, and I enjoyed it more when QUANTUM was the organization that he was a bigger member of, but it is what it is. I do enjoy the dynamic relationship he and Bond seem to have throughout; he saves Bond in this, Bond "saves" him in QoS, and they finally save one another in SP. A fitting end.

    Steven Obanno: He's sinister enough as an influential warlord/terrorist, of some sort, so you immediately know not to get on his bad side. Having said that, aside from directly being an enemy of Bond's, it's hard to disagree with Obanno going after Le Chiffre the way he did; he lost over $100 million that Obanno gave him, so it's totally understandable. I liked his right hand man in this (I've seen him in a couple of other films, shame he doesn't get any sort of dialogue to work with), and both of them going up against Bond in the stairwell fight is incredible.

    Kratt: He has such a unique look and ambiance to him (bald, a domineering and threatening look in his eyes, the way he handles a butterfly knife, etc.) that I'm always upset he was sidelined and didn't get any more dialogue or influential scenes to work with, which is a fault that the Craig era has had throughout - I'd love some more named, stand-out henchmen that are as iconic as you can make them. I also stress the "named" bit, too, since they're given a name in the script most of the time, but not mentioned by name whatsoever in the film (Carlos, Kratt, Fisher, Gettler, Hinx, Mollaka, etc.)

    Carlos: He's certainly more successful than Mollaka, the man he was sent to replace, but it's tough to be crazy about the character when he makes up the centerpiece of the one action sequence I'm not truly crazy about in the film. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of moments littered throughout in Miami that I enjoy, but it's the one instance that I find the film "dragging." I know that doesn't remotely pertain to the character, but there really isn't too much to say about him, given how little he features.

    Mollaka: "One bombmaker" paves the way for arguably one of the greatest chase sequences in the series. From Bond's first slide off of the rooftop he's perched on, you know that he's going to get his man, and he certainly does. While he's a tiny pawn in a film that spans a much larger, more deadly plot through Le Chiffre/Mr. White's intentions and goals, he's still skilled enough to have Bond require some quick thinking and fast footwork to stop him. Plus, if you're going to shoot a brilliant parkour sequence, it typically helps when you cast the co-founder of the entire sport/activity. Just a shame they didn't let him actually shoot the crane jump, because if there was one person who could've nailed it, it'd be him - having said that, the stuntman responsible for pulling it off handled it with expert precision, too.

    Dryden: A nasty, rogue agent of sorts, he's contained in the PTS and is ironically enough, the ally of Bond's first kill and inevitably, Bond's second kill. He makes the grave mistake of underestimating Bond, which is his immediate downfall. I've always enjoyed the character, he helps kick off the film in a blunt, quick way.

    Adolph Gettler: A combination of that worried, puzzled look on Vesper's face and the menacing monocle immediately says that he's not a casual tourist. He seems to be much more sinister than they let on, because once he steps in and Bond foils the plot, he's already dead and Mr. White has run off with the money. Even still, he gets a few blows in - threatens to viciously kill Vesper, guns down his own man without a care in the world, and hits Bond with a nail gun, before having it turned on him - and manages to make his mark well enough by trapping (and inevitably killing) Vesper.

    Fisher: He's only around for the PTS, but since he's the very first enemy of Craig's Bond, he stands out to some degree, and the fight scene itself is incredible. I'll touch up more on it when I go over the action, but I am a big fan of the extended PTS that gives Fisher a bit more screentime; having said that, I'm very happy with how it was cut and edited in the finished film, and he's a great foe.

    STORY/ACTION:

    A rookie 007 is tasked with stopping The Cipher from winning a high-stakes poker game and, in turn, winning direct money that can be utilized to finance terrorism. The best part about it: it's from Fleming, so you know you're in for something special and original.

    This film is akin to TWINE (perhaps not as extravagantly, however) in the action department: the action is dialed back to four or five bigger set pieces, with contained action within, and when it's going down, it's extraordinary. That's not to say that the quieter moments in the film suffer, because they certainly don't, but when we get bigger breaks in the action, I expect those scenes in question to deliver, and my, do they certainly deliver in this. Speaking of the action:

    PTS: Top 5 PTS openings in the series for me. I love the usage of the black and white, gives it an immediately classic feel (which the film is more than deserving of). As I previously stated, the action itself is sublime, and the extended opening is even better. The brutal fist fighting, crashing through the bathroom stalls, tearing sinks off the wall, destroying mirrors, this is one heavy hitting fight. The extended PTS doesn't add too much action, but it does give us a look at Bond at a cricket match, while he watches Fisher and eventually pursues him through the club. There are a few more punches/hits thrown in this, and we also get to see Fisher flee to the bathroom he hides himself in before being ambushed by Bond. However, the reason I'm glad this wasn't what made the film is because I think the transition from "And it takes..." "Two." to Bond and Fisher fighting is simply perfect. If the extended opening had been kept in, this tense moment would've segued into a much quieter moment of Bond taking in the cricket game and spying on Fisher, so I'm glad it was removed, yet subsequently kept for all to enjoy on this blu-ray release. Terrific stuff. It also just clicked that both of Campbell's installments involve Bond fighting someone in a bathroom in the PTS.

    Madagascar Foot Chase: The crowning action sequence of the era, and arguably the greatest one in the series in the last 20 years, I'm simply in pure awe every time this is going down. I've been intrigued by parkour, particularly its usage in film, ever since I saw 'District B13' when I was younger, and boy, did they get it right with this. I love how, from Bond's very first steps in pursuing Mollaka, all the way to the end of the sequence, it doesn't remotely slow down or give you time to breathe, aside from when Bond sneaks into the embassy. It's fast-paced, it's filled with a ton of danger, and thankfully, they didn't feel the need to take the cheap route of CG work to pull any of this off, instead opting to use stuntmen to film some jaw-dropping crane-to-crane jumps. You put Campbell on a Bond set, particularly when a sequence such as this is underway, and you're set for a rollicking good time. The next time you watch this, keep an eye on the landscape during those sweeping shots where 007 and Mollaka are trading blows on the crane - the water, the greenery, all the buildings and roads and people in the background, give it a much bigger scope and it's just so beautiful and colorful (EDIT: Just realized in one of these sweeping shots, you can see the two security men lying dead on a nearby rooftop, the two that Mollaka executed). Perhaps it's due to me changing some settings on my HDTV lately, but I feel like the movies haven't looked this vibrant and colorful since the 60's.

    Another key feature of this is the difference between Bond and Mollaka - whereas he's swift and quick thinking and obviously more fine-tuned with his parkour abilities, 007 is destructive and willing to use any blunt means necessary to get to his target. When Mollaka spider-jumps over a saw table and wall-hops through an empty elevator shaft, Bond takes the quick route of sliding through a hole in the floor. As Mollaka effortlessly swings through the tiniest of holes to evade Bond's grasp, the latter takes a simple route by plowing right through the drywall. Mollaka executes a perfectly-timed jump just after to continue to avoid Bond, so 007 uses a wrench and destroys a conveyor machine to get him down to the same level. It's great, and shows just how different the two men are. Another highlight of this entire chase, just a small moment that I always appreciate is the parallel shot of Bond jumping onto the conveyer, at the same time Mollaka is jumping to another ledge (this is immediately before Bond grabs the wrench to use).

    Sightseeing in Miami: The only action sequence that tends to drag for me, though I will say I've looked upon it more favorably this week. I do like Bond's pursuit of Carlos throughout the museum/airport, which gives us some more investigative work, and that's always a welcome sight. I think my only complaint is when Bond gets into the truck and goes toe-to-toe with him, it's just a bit lackluster to me. Bond chasing after the truck, initially diving onto the side of it through the use of the steps, and hanging on for dear life while avoiding oncoming vehicles and explosions? I do love that. Once he's in though, I grow a bit detached until we get to enjoy the smirk on Bond's face as Carlos destroys himself. I will say I've always found it odd that Bond is captured and arrested by airport police without a single word uttered. Always seems so oddly quiet to me.

    Stairwell Fight: After quickly dispatching Obanno's right-hand man with a swift kick down the stairwell, we're given arguably the most brutal, bloody fight scene in the series. It's fast, it's heavy-hitting, and we see Bond doing everything he possibly can to avoid the machete attacks, which doesn't pan out as well as he had hoped. I also love seeing Vesper get her hands dirty, while she sits in shock and fear watching Bond strangle him to death. It's such a good scene, and a big reason why I need to get the UK blu-ray so I can see the unedited bits that aren't in the American release, for some reason. Something to keep an eye out for: when Bond does the dive from one stairwell to another, I'm not sure how they pulled it off past replacing the step with a lighter material, he lands directly on his neck/skull. Always makes me wince when I see that bit of the fight.

    (As a side note, while it isn't very action-packed, I love the shot of Bond sprinting past the fleeing car that carries a kidnapped Vesper, along with the brilliant, single-shot car crash. Then we get one of the more tense, nerve-wracking moments in the film, with the harrowing torture sequence that Craig sells with 110% precision. Great stuff.)

    (Another thought that just clicked and I don't really know where else to put it, but something else this film masterfully does is the use of lightly frenetic, shakier camera work in the more vulnerable moments, such as the uneasy steadiness of the camera as it watches Bond gulp down his drink and stare into the mirror after his fight in the stairwell, or a few instances when he's attempting to save his own life in his car after being poisoned. A brilliant little touch.)

    Finale: This is the other action sequence that a lot seem to agree is bad on pacing, whereas I love it and find it a fitting end to the movie. Bond's hurried, frenetic search throughout St. Mark's Square as he attempts to find Vesper - and subsequently find out why she betrayed him - is rich, as is his "Allow me" as Gettler shouts "I'll kill her!" I really enjoy the shot of Bond approaching the old building, as he surveys through the crack to see how many guys he's up against, and what he can use to his advantage.

    The fighting itself is so-so when he's actually inside the building; some of the ways he dispatches Gettler's men are cool, but then it gets a bit goofy, like with Gettler unloading a nail gun directly at him and only managing to hit him once, or Bond yanking a live wire, while soaked, directly out of the wall and seemingly being unaffected by it. His nailgun headshot on Gettler is a nice, fitting end, though, as is the way he coolly yanks the nail out of his back and presses on with finding Vesper. Of course, it doesn't go the way I hope it does every single time, and he loses her.

    MI6Community Bondathon: (May change at any time.)

    Damn, what a film. Took me two days of working on this because I was so scatterbrained with all the different moments, no matter how large or small, that I was enjoying and wanting to talk about. There's still a boatload of stuff I'm sure I failed to mention, would like to pull up that analysis of the film I did a while back where I'd discuss every single thing I liked while I watched the movie. Maybe I'll have to do that again one day. Currently fighting with myself over whether it should come before or after LALD, but I'll place it accordingly for now and likely alter it by the time this Bondathon ends. Thanks for reading.

    1.) GE
    2.) DN
    3.) OHMSS
    4.) CR
    5.) LALD
    6.) TSWLM
    7.) GF
    8.) YOLT
    9.) FYEO
    10.) FRWL
    11.) OP
    12.) LTK
    13.) TB
    14.) AVTAK
    15.) DAF
    16.) TWINE
    17.) TLD
    18.) TMWTGG
    19.) DAD
    20.) MR
    21.) TND
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    Nice one Creasy - You Only Live Twice in your top 10. :)>-
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    NicNac wrote: »
    Nice one Creasy - You Only Live Twice in your top 10. :)>-

    That makes me glad.

  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    It's quite the gem, that one! I always enjoy it, and even with QoS likely taking a Top 5 spot this week, it looks like YOLT will remain in my Top 10.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    @Creasy47, I think Dan's brilliant in all his films, but you're right in saying that this is the biggie. The script has so much going on that like no other film of his he's gotten to show his range as an actor. It was perfectly written to him, and shows plentiful moments of him being a capable killer, sentimental lover, jokester/lovable rogue and all around smooth operator. The writing allows him to slip into all the aspects of Bond that make him an icon, and he is also able to give his own spin.

    I think his other films give him meat too, with QoS allowing him to replicate Bond's grief, SF to show him playing a phoenix coming from the ashes and SP allowing him to finally be unburdened by the heavy drama of the past films to be a very cinematic and more classical Bond. It's hard for the three films beyond CR to give him as much meat as he gets here, because it's the first Bond story and important for so many reasons. He falls in love, gets betrayed and part of him goes cold forever. It's a lot of big drama punctuated by an even bigger tragedy where Bond gets put through it emotionally and physically in a way we hadn't seen since OHMSS.

    Dan peaked right out of the gate with a crazy script based on the story that started it all, so everything that follows gets misjudged for not doing all the insane things CR did. It's hard to beat the debut, impossible, even. Like I always say, though, Dan has an all-time classic here, and I don't think anyone since Sean has been in a film that has been this much of an outstanding hit for fans and public alike. It's a rarity for a film to be as loved as CR is, and to such a high degree. The movie has also allowed Dan to move on and do other interesting things with the character after, and I've been through the roof pleased to see it.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    That's what is so positive and yet so negative about the movie: it's so damn good and iconic right off the bat, that it was almost impossible to top it. I may just ever so slightly prefer QoS to it, but I wouldn't deem anything in the series in the last 30 years or so a "classic" like I would CR. A damn good film, this one.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    That's what is so positive and yet so negative about the movie: it's so damn good and iconic right off the bat, that it was almost impossible to top it. I may just ever so slightly prefer QoS to it, but I wouldn't deem anything in the series in the last 30 years or so a "classic" like I would CR. A damn good film, this one.

    Yes, very much so.

    One of the many comparisons I feel with Sean and Dan's films is that I think Sean experienced a similar thing. I think the scripts of DN and FRWL played to Sean's talents so powerfully that it was impossible for him not to peak so very early. GF is iconic and TB is a brilliant blockbuster, yes, but those first two are the best I have seen for how to character build this man for a hungry audience. The little moments of DN and FRWL are so explosive and meaningful, and Sean makes everything feel important. Those scripts just reach levels others couldn't and were so experimental for such an early franchise. It was impossible for things not to stale after such an amazing introduction to the cinematic James Bond.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    Egads man! I almost forgot to do my rankings! That was close to being an over-reaction!

    Royale’s Ranking -

    1. From Russia With Love
    2. On Her Majesty’s Secret Service
    3. Casino Royale
    4. Dr. No
    5. Goldfinger
    6. Licence To Kill
    7. Thunderball
    8. The Living Daylights
    9. The Spy Who Loved Me
    10. The World Is Not Enough
    11. Octopussy
    12. For Your Eyes Only
    13. Tomorrow Never Dies
    14. GoldenEye
    15. You Only Live Twice*
    16. A View To A Kill
    17. Moonraker
    18. Live and Let Die
    19. Diamonds Are Forever
    20. The Man With The Golden Gun
    21. Die Another Day

    *May have to visit YOLT before this Bondathon is out - an epic conclusion to the Sean Connery saga, or an overblown speculator mess? This is the decision that has plagued me since seeing YOLT for the first time. And it still does. Gosh darn it!
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    @royale65, I am conflicted with YOLT in the same way. I am still not sure whether I like it more or don't like it more. I think it helps to watch it on its own, because if you do what we did and watch all the other classics before it, the drop in quality is very visible. I will say though, one of the things that will always make it worth watching is the location work and Freddie Young's photography. Gorgeous stuff. It's also the end-all-be-all Japanese Bond film, which is kind of special.


    I'll post my updated rankings after I see QoS this weekend. I didn't see a point in updating the ranking post-CR, as it's still first for me. I may give it one last watch before going into the next one.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Bond and Camille not being written as lovers is honestly one of my favorite things about the movie, and part of the many reasons why I respect it so much. The act would've devalued everything Bond was developing towards, and his relationship with Camille never went beyond a platonic partnership, which the script always keeps consistent. It was refreshing to see, and their final moment shot for true emotion and introspection instead of romance.
  • BondAficionadoBondAficionado Former IMDBer
    Posts: 1,889
    Bond and Camille not being written as lovers is honestly one of my favorite things about the movie, and part of the many reasons why I respect it so much. The act would've devalued everything Bond was developing towards, and his relationship with Camille never went beyond a platonic partnership, which the script always keeps consistent. It was refreshing to see, and their final moment shot for true emotion and introspection instead of romance.

    Yes! He already had his fling w/ Mrs. Fields (mandatory) but Camille was more of a business partner, if you will. They helped one another to seek revenge and once that was accomplished there was no need for them to be together.
  • Agent_99Agent_99 enjoys a spirited ride as much as the next girl
    Posts: 3,176
    Bond and Camille not being written as lovers is honestly one of my favorite things about the movie

    Yes from me too. The friendly, respectful kiss as they part is one of my favourite bits.

    You've actually made me excited about my upcoming watch, which I was feeling a bit 'oh god not again' about.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Bond and Camille not being written as lovers is honestly one of my favorite things about the movie, and part of the many reasons why I respect it so much. The act would've devalued everything Bond was developing towards, and his relationship with Camille never went beyond a platonic partnership, which the script always keeps consistent. It was refreshing to see, and their final moment shot for true emotion and introspection instead of romance.

    Yes! He already had his fling w/ Mrs. Fields (mandatory) but Camille was more of a business partner, if you will. They helped one another to seek revenge and once that was accomplished there was no need for them to be together.

    Yes, I think Fields was his careless release. He was still in "Vesper is a disloyal bitch" mode, and wanted to wash those thoughts of her away with some rolling in the sheets. Using Fields could've been because it was easy, it was a middle finger to MI6 for sending a babysitter for him, or he wanted her help tracking Greene at the coming event and wanted to butter her up. Either way, Bond is being very manipulative and conniving.

    I think Camille was too heavy a pursuit for him, sexually speaking. He is obviously attracted to her, and she him in a very initiatory way, but they both realize that they're each dealing with such heavy emotional grief that it wouldn't be a healthy decision to make. Neither were at their best mentally, and needed to focus on their own individual missions to truly be effective together. Romance and sex had no place between the turmoil they were both facing inside, and I think Camille knew Bond still had feelings for Vesper and backed off because he felt "taken," even though she never knew the full story of what he'd been through. She sensed Bond's repressed care for Vesper before anyone else in that way, aside from Mathis. M was also vital in making Bond see the truth, but it was Mathis' last words that really pulled him out of that black pit and Camille who showed him how hollow revenge is after seeing how nothing had really changed inside her following Medrano's death. They sit in the car preparing to say goodbye after the finale, and you can almost here Bond say, "What the hell is it ever for?" The kiss is a nice, quiet moment, a caring thank you between two reluctant and surprising partners.

    It's a shame we don't see the same kind of deep, yet subtle and well framed platonic relationships in other Bond films as we see in QoS. 007 always has to be a horny dog, and after a while it gets a bit old. Craig's Bond has been restrained in that department in a very refreshing way, if only because many of the women he sleeps with end up biting it and he spent two major films committed largely to one woman. I think it'd be interesting to see this idea played with more in another era, where Bond teams up with someone who he's just platonic partners with, and the mission is always first. Characters like Pam and Wai Lin were EON's chance to do this in recent years, as the women are sometimes set up with potential to just be Bond's friends and strong allies, but it always has to end in sex. Very traditional, and very boring.
  • Agent_99Agent_99 enjoys a spirited ride as much as the next girl
    edited March 2017 Posts: 3,176
    It's a shame we don't see the same kind of deep, yet subtle and well framed platonic relationships in other Bond films as we see in QoS.

    I'd like this a lot - with Natalya, for instance, as well as the examples you name. Bond isn't the type of man who has female friends - Moneypenny probably comes closest - but that would make it really interesting if, for once, he did.

    (Obviously I am biased because I would love to be James Bond's platonic female friend.)
  • JohnHammond73JohnHammond73 Lancashire, UK
    Posts: 4,151
    Watched Quantum Of Solace this morning. Apart from the cinema release, I think this is the most fun I have had watching it in ages. I've said it before but it is thanks to this Bondathon. I watch with much more concentration. I may not be great with words but I can tell you that I thoroughly enjoyed this watch. It is so fast paced, the time whizzes through. Yes I know that it's a shorter movie than we are used to but even at that running time it still speeds through. There is barely time to catch our breath. Watching it closer, I have also come to realise that this IS more Bond than Bourne. I remember at the time people saying that it was more like a Bourne movie than a 007 movie. In fact, some tool at work, keeps telling me that, almost 9 years later (he is the office bore).

    I've been trying to think ever since where it should place in my rankings (it is currently ranked at 18 and I think that just doesn't fit now) and, a couple of hours later, I have come to a conclusion. Here it is:

    New Ranking

    On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Casino Royale
    The Spy Who Loved Me
    Goldfinger
    From Russia With Love
    Octopussy
    Goldeneye
    Licence To Kill
    Quantum Of Solace
    Dr No
    The Living Daylights
    Live And Let Die
    A View To A Kill
    For Your Eyes Only
    Moonraker
    Tomorrow Never Dies
    Thunderball
    You Only Live Twice
    The Man With The Golden Gun
    The World Is Not Enough
    Diamonds Are Forever
    Die Another Day

    Previous Ranking


    1. The Spy Who Loved Me
    2. On Her Majesty’s Secret Service
    3. Casino Royale
    4. From Russia With Love
    5. Skyfall
    6. Goldfinger
    7. Octopussy
    8. Spectre
    9. Dr No
    10. The Living Daylights
    11. Goldeneye
    12. Live And Let Die
    13. Licence To Kill
    14. A View To A Kill
    15. For Your Eyes Only
    16. Moonraker
    17. Thunderball
    18. Quantum Of Solace
    19. Diamonds Are Forever
    20. Tomorrow Never Dies
    21. You Only Live Twice
    22. The Man With The Golden Gun
    23. Die Another Day
    24. The World Is Not Enough

    That is quite a jump for QOS but I had such fun on this viewing it just had to be raked higher.

    As time is lacking for me at the moment. due to packing and organizing a move etc., I am going to put up my notes now, hope that's ok?

    Cast


    As this is set right after the events of CR, Bond is still new to being a double 0. Whether he shows it or not he is still suffering from the events concerning Vesper. Even his looks look craggier than in CR, and he looks like a man who has been battered emotionally from those events. Craig is quite excellent throughout and he brings across everything expected of him very well. His reaction to the death of Mathis is quite heartbreaking and it brought a lump to my throat, the same with the death of Fields. But it's not just that, he's very cool when he needs to be, brutal in his fight with Mr Slate (Craig is excellent in the fight scenes) etc. I also like how he delivers the little humourous one-liners here, such as "That wasn't very nice" when Camille shoots at thim, "He was a dead end" when asked about Mr Slate; my favourite being something very reminiscent of Connery, "Excuse me", hands Camille over to the worker, "thank you, she's seasick". Superb and delivered very well by Craig. There is a lot to like from Craig, another thing being his little smirks as he's listening to everything that Gemma is saying to Mathis over wine etc. Quite excellent from him. Definitely on a par with his performance in CR.

    Speaking of Mathis, Giancarlo Giannini is fantastic as the doomed character. The chemistry he has with Craig is definitely on a par with Connery / Armendariz in FRWL. You believe that they trust each other, are friends. The death of Mathis is so well acted that, as I said before, it brought a lump to my throat. Credit to both actors there.

    Mathieu Amalric is a villain that has grown on me. On initial viewing after release I just saw him as a little sneaky, weasley, type character who seemed to offer no thrat whatsoever. Over time, I have come to realise that he offers more threat than I thought. Amalric is good as Greene and he does show quite a threat. Not physically (unless he's coming at you with a big metal bar) but because of those around him. The people who work for him, the people he knows, there is always a threat to what he can have done. Camille knows that only too well after he plotted to have her killed. Underrated villain (even by myself at one time).

    On to Camille and Olga Kurylenko, not your typical Bond girl as she doesn't end up in the sack with 007. I don't think it would have fit the movie if she had ended up in the sack with 007 but that doesn't mean I like it. I'm a bit of a traditionalist when it comes to things like that and I don't want to see too many things removed that the public would generally associate with 007. Kurylenko is good though, out for revenge for the murder of her family. I like her and the scene during the finale and the fear of the fire around her is very well played. Her final scene where she gets out of the car and walks away comes across very much like a western, very clever.

    Jeffrey Wright is back as Felix Leiter. Despite trying to give the idea that he is on the take with Beam but I never believed it for one minute, neither did 007. He is there again, not doing a massive amount but his impact on the story is there to see as he helps Bond. Despite not, actually, doing much though, you are aware of Wrights presence in the scenes he appears. A credit to the actor.

    Judi Dench as M - ever reliable actress and excellent throughout. M in this movie, shows a little more stress than before I feel. You can tell she is undre pressure due to Bonds actions throughout but she still supports him nonetheless. Excellent.

    Rory Kinnear as Tanner is ok, although I do long for the days of Michael Kitchin in the role. He serves his purpose here but, in the scene after finding Fields covered in oil and Bonds escape from the agents, M tells Bond that other agents are ordered to capture or kill him. As they arrive to try get 007, we see Tanner in the middle of them. I very much doubt that he would be much use in the field or trying to capture 007. However, M sorts him out by telling him to figure out where he is going.

    Anatole Taubman as Elvis - not sure what to make of him really. As a henchman he seems pretty useless, ending up with a collar on. There is one scene, at the opera, where he is looking at someone behind him before turning with a goofy look on his face to watch. At that moment he reminds me the Jim Carrey character in Dumb And Dumber. The hair doesn't help either.

    The lovely Gemma Arterton as Fields, the sacrificial lamb of this movie. In her short time in the movie, she does make quite an impact. Quite stiff, not impressed by Bonds slight arrogance at first, soon falls into bed with him and becomes part of a nice nod to movies of the past, in this case, GF. Seeing her covered in oil is, obviously, a tribute to Jill Eaton and it does have an impact. Not to the extent of that in GF as it is something we have seen before, but still powerful enough.

    Jesper Christiansen is back as Mr White and, another one with limited screen time, we know his influence on happenings. Love his little comment as the Quantum guys are leaving the opera, "Well, Tosca isn't for everyone". Great actor.

    Bond Elements


    Being a traditionalist, I do wish the gun barrel was at the start of the movie and i don't see any reason why it shouldn't have been as opposed to sticking it on at the end. I watched it a couple of times when the movie finished and, I don't know if it is just me, but because of the way Craig struts, it his walk didn't look all that great. Nice quick turn and shot though.

    The pts is one of the shorter ones but we are treated to a decent car chase before Bond opens the boot to reveal Mr White. I used to dislike this somewhat but appreciation has grown over subsequent viewings. It's fast paced and very well done.

    Some nice locations here, Italy, Spain etc. They all look great and I think the orangey tint to the movie helps that a lot.

    The action is pretty much non-stop. The car chase in the pts, the chase on foot when Bond is after Mitchell (although we saw a brilliant chase on foot in the movie before), the boat chase, the plane sequence, the finale (Earth, Water, Air, Fire - very clever idea from Forster). It's all action and the movie moves along speedily because of it, even despite the shorter running time.

    The humour is there, not mush of it, but it is all very subtle, not in your face. I mentioned a couple of lines earlier but I also like the exchange between Bond and Cmille on the plane, "Your mother?", "She likes to think so". Very good. There are a few other moments like that, that did give me a little laugh.

    The plot, as with most Bond movies, is as credible as you want it to be, although this time we have added revenge, both for Bond and Camille. I like this side of the movie, they've been hurt and they want the people responsible. The scheme is a little similar to some we've seen before, GF, AVTAK etc. It's a lot about greed. While in this you may think that Greene is after oil, it's actually the water he's found out in the desert that he wants, therefore, prices high etc.

    Production

    Marc Forster directs this movie and, despite my thoughts of time gone by, does an ok job. He gets great performances from the cast. I'm aware there we issues at the time of production so, I think all things told, he brings us a decent movie. I am aware he wasn't much of a Bond fan but he puts his all into it.

    I like the title design, fits in well with the movie. Not up to the standard of CR or GE but very good.

    The script is pretty much ok. The issues with the strike at the time etc may not have helped but I like how we get a story where Bond is learning to trust those around him, as well as the job at hand. No issues with the dialogue throught and the humour and any one-liners are subtly done. Fair play in getting this story after going through a rewrite.

    There are some very nice shots throughout, the opening shot showing Lake Garda (is that correct?) looks stunning. It's a very good looking movie.

    I like the music in this, I think it's a very nice score. Nice use of the Bond theme, the music during the whole of that part of the movie, to me, is wonderful. I assume that comes straight from the opera?? The theme tune, I'm not a big fan of, although I rate it a little higher than I did before. It's ok.

    I think the movie is edited well enough. It's definitely fast but, despite that, it doesn't cause too many issues. Only a couple of minor things notice which is fine.

    Everyone looks good in any costume required. Craig looks decent in his suits etc. Nice way to get him in tuxedo by the way, just handy that the guy he stole it from was just the right size for him.

    The main set on offer was the desert hotel. Nice and grand with some imaginative touches. The set design side of the newer Bond movies struggle to get to the heights of, say, YOLT, GF etc.

    Final things

    The glass roof thing didn't bother. Yes, there's cgi but it's over that quick it's hardly noticeable.

    The shot of M at Mitchell's apartment. Looks like she's visiting Nelson Mandela House (one for fans of Only Fools and Horse)

    Bonds hair in the above scene and the final scene, doesn't really suit Craig I don't think. But then, it's still better than Elvis'.

    M: "Impress me!"

    Nice little nod to TSWLM. Doesn't have the effect that Sir Rog did in his scene with Sandor but it does show the ruthless side of 007.

    Not a fan of seeing Bond drunk, as he clearly is on the plane with Mathis. Is this the first time we've seen that?

    Fields: "Oh my gosh!"

    M: "He's my agent and I trust him."
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Agent_99 wrote: »
    It's a shame we don't see the same kind of deep, yet subtle and well framed platonic relationships in other Bond films as we see in QoS.

    I'd like this a lot - with Natalya, for instance, as well as the examples you name. Bond isn't the type of man who has female friends - Moneypenny probably comes closest - but that would make it really interesting if, for once, he did.

    (Obviously I am biased because I would love to be James Bond's platonic female friend.)

    I don't know why, but I found that a very sweet thought as I read it.

    There has been many times where I think Bond girls were rather sloppily written to have sex with him, and in those cases where it was visible it wasn't a natural move, they could've tinkered and done things differently now and again. Not too much, however, because then that'd get as boring as him sleeping with everyone.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    Great stuff, @Shark_0f_Largo, that's quite the jump that QoS has made in your rankings!
  • JohnHammond73JohnHammond73 Lancashire, UK
    Posts: 4,151
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Great stuff, @Shark_0f_Largo, that's quite the jump that QoS has made in your rankings!

    Thank you. Yes, certainly a big jump. Watching is as part of this Bondathon has really helped me see some of the movies differently. Thoroughly enjoyed this viewing of QOS.

  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Great stuff, @Shark_0f_Largo, that's quite the jump that QoS has made in your rankings!

    Thank you. Yes, certainly a big jump. Watching is as part of this Bondathon has really helped me see some of the movies differently. Thoroughly enjoyed this viewing of QOS.

    That's excellent stuff, always enjoy seeing someone find a bigger appreciation for the film. It's one of my favorites.
  • JohnHammond73JohnHammond73 Lancashire, UK
    Posts: 4,151
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Great stuff, @Shark_0f_Largo, that's quite the jump that QoS has made in your rankings!

    Thank you. Yes, certainly a big jump. Watching is as part of this Bondathon has really helped me see some of the movies differently. Thoroughly enjoyed this viewing of QOS.

    That's excellent stuff, always enjoy seeing someone find a bigger appreciation for the film. It's one of my favorites.

    I can understand why. Well, it looks like it will finish in the top ten for me this time around. I wouldn't have expected that at the start of this Bondathon.

  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    Quantum of Solace:

    GENERAL THOUGHTS:

    It should be criminal for a film to be this cool, with insane pacing and a shorter runtime leading the way for an easily rewatchable film. Some will relegate it to being "Quantum of Bourne, with bad editing and a confusing title," which laughably seems to be the only genuine complaints most can muster up about this film. THIS movie, right here, is how you blend art and a unique style with a heavy-hitting, impressive action romp. It's a perfect mixture, and doesn't go overboard on the melodrama, but for some, does go overboard with the action. I grew up loving the genre, and it's most certainly a reason I got into the series, so this movie whets my appetite on all fronts. It still stands as my favorite of Craig's, barely trumping CR, and will more than likely stay that way for a long time. Looking forward to getting even more in-depth with this in a couple of days.

    TITLE SEQUENCE:

    Gorgeous and brilliant - could've gone either way when MK12 was brought in to do their first and only title sequence, but it's a positive. The gorgeous lighting and usage of the sun against the darkness and shadows and sand is a brilliant touch, as are the Bond girls forming from the sand - it's so detailed and original, I love it. This might be Top 5 title sequences, in my opinion. Also, I can't recall who it was exactly (@Birdleson, I believe) who mentioned something I not only love the thought of, but wholeheartedly agree with now: the beginning of the title sequence IS the gunbarrel, albeit without the iconic profile-shot of Bond walking across the scene. He fires straight ahead into the sun, which can be seen as the gunbarrel the audience is looking through. We follow the bullet throughout the beginning, then once more at the end as Bond begins to walk away. Finally, the way the bullet smacks into the sands and kicks it all up, we get the briefest of glimpses of what looks like the gunbarrel image - of course, I could just be seeing it because I want to see it, but it's a lovely thought, and very imaginative. It's why I can so easily forgive the lack of a GB with this and CR.

    TITLE SONG:

    'Another Way To Die' is great and catchy, and that's all I can really ask for. Happy that it's more of a rock song than a ballad this time around once again, and while Alicia Keys is probably one of the last artists I'd peg to perform a Bond title song, she does well enough, with Jack White being great as always. The mixture of guitar and piano goes wonderfully together.
  • JohnHammond73JohnHammond73 Lancashire, UK
    Posts: 4,151
    Good stuff @Creasy47.

    I think you are right that @Birdleson made the comment about the gun barrel being part of the titles. Didn't really notice myself but I think I may have to go back and take a look now it has been mentioned.
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