Anthony Horowitz's Bond novel - Forever and a Day

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  • Posts: 623
    But if it's a stamp, why does being in the same place on the page prove it's a stamp? If the signature appears in the same place on every page, that's more likely to prove it's been printed on, during the initial printing. It's harder to stamp a signature on a page in the same place, than it is to stamp it in a different place.
    I've no axe to grind here, or point to prove. I'm a collector and have ordered both. I'm genuinely interested in how you think they've faked the signatures in the waterstones shop you visited.
    Is it a printed signature, or has someone used a stamp?

    Or something else?
  • Posts: 520
    shamanimal wrote: »
    But if it's a stamp, why does being in the same place on the page prove it's a stamp? If the signature appears in the same place on every page, that's more likely to prove it's been printed on, during the initial printing. It's harder to stamp a signature on a page in the same place, than it is to stamp it in a different place.
    I've no axe to grind here, or point to prove. I'm a collector and have ordered both. I'm genuinely interested in how you think they've faked the signatures in the waterstones shop you visited.
    Is it a printed signature, or has someone used a stamp?

    Or something else?
    PussyNoMore is exhausted. Sham animal should make his or her own mind up.

  • Posts: 1,162
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    He gained his OO status after killing a Japanese cipher clerk and a Norwegian double agent. That is clearly a reference to the war,

    That's what I thought too. Strange. Bond was seconded into the British Secret Service from the Royal Navy.

    Sorry but PussyNoMore does not think that these events would have to have taken place during the war. That is an assumption.

    I think the obvious urgency to kill a Japanese on US soil, when at the same time the same US are your most important provider of whatever it takes to fight a war speaks for itself.
  • Posts: 623
    And here I was hoping to learn something. I was always told at school, it's good to ask questions.
    Thanks anyway.
  • Posts: 520
    Here's a little more context from the book.

    Chapter 9 - The Game is Baccarat
    Bond frowned. 'It's not difficult to get a Double O number if you're prepared to kill people,' he said. 'That's all the meaning it has. It's nothing to be particularly proud of. I've got the corpses of a Japanese cipher expert in New York and a Norwegian double agent in Stockholm to thank for being a Double 0. Probably quite decent people. They just got caught up in the gale of the world like that Yugoslav that Tito bumped off. It's a confusing business but if it's one's profession, one does what one's told. How do you like the grated egg with your caviar?'

    Chapter 20 - The Nature of Evil
    'Well, in the last few years I've killed two villains. The first was in New York — a Japanese cipher expert cracking our codes on the thirty sixth floor of the RCA building in the Rockefeller centre, where the Japs had their consulate. I took a room on the fortieth floor of the next door skyscraper and I could look across the street into his room and see him working. Then I got a colleague from our organization in New York and a couple of Remington thirty-thirty's with telescopic sights and silencers. We smuggled them up to my room and sat for days waiting for our chance. He shot at the man a second before me. His job was only to blast a hole through the windows so that I could shoot the Jap through it. They have tough windows at the Rockefeller centre to keep the noise out. It worked very well. As I expected, his bullet got deflected by the glass and went God knows where. But I shot immediately after him, through the hole he had made. I got the Jap in the mouth as he turned to gape at the broken window.'

    Bond smoked for a minute.

    'It was a pretty sound job. Nice and clean too. Three hundred yards away. No personal contact. The next time in Stockholm wasn't so pretty. I had to kill a Norwegian who was doubling against us for the Germans. He'd managed to get two of our men captured — probably bumped off for all I know. For various reasons it had to be an absolutely silent job. I chose the bedroom of his flat and a knife. And, well, he just didn't die very quickly.

    'For those two jobs I was awarded a Double O number in the Service. Felt pretty clever and got a reputation for being good and tough. A double O number in our Service means you've had to kill a chap in cold blood in the course of some job.

    So regarding the Japanese, I don't think they maintained a consulate in NYC during wartime (meaning from around December 1941 and after). I also doubt England would send a Royal Navy officer on an assassination job to the US during the war. A colleague from our organization in New York I take to be an MI6 counterpart.

    Where Bond references "Service", it's the same Service and that's MI6.




    Sorry but PussyNoMore does not think that these events would have to have taken place during the war. That is an assumption.

    I think the obvious urgency to kill a Japanese on US soil, when at the same time the same US are your most important provider of whatever it takes to fight a war speaks for itself.

    Up until now, PussyNoMore has always sided with the facts according to Fleming - as set out by RichardTheBruce’s excellent post - which clearly indicates that the events took place after the war. His point about there being no Japanese consulate in NYC during the war being the most salient fact.
    That said, Fleming could be notoriously untidy about these things - he did write from the gut rather than through rigorous research - and this will allow Horowitz the latitude he needs to creat his own narrative.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,338
    It is never too late to learn from The Master.
  • Posts: 520
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    It is never too late to learn from The Master.

    PussyNoMore is delighted that his Lordship is taking instruction.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited March 2018 Posts: 18,338
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    It is never too late to learn from The Master.

    PussyNoMore is delighted that his Lordship is taking instruction.

    Just to be clear I like and respect you immensely old chap (as a literary Bond fan of some vintage) but I'll have to draw the line at this thing about Fleming being the first continuation author. That is just utter madness to me! Anyway, if that is all we disagree on... :)
  • Posts: 17,814
    How soon after WW2 can we assume Bond's first "jobs" took place?
    'It was a pretty sound job. Nice and clean too. Three hundred yards away. No personal contact. The next time in Stockholm wasn't so pretty. I had to kill a Norwegian who was doubling against us for the Germans. He'd managed to get two of our men captured — probably bumped off for all I know. For various reasons it had to be an absolutely silent job. I chose the bedroom of his flat and a knife. And, well, he just didn't die very quickly.'

    I wonder if the case of the Norwegian happened in a pre-DDR Germany, and that he answered to people in the Soviet occupation zone? Take it that 1949 or later (when DDR was established) would be too late…?

    Or did Fleming skew the timeframe of those events to fit his own narrative, by just not mentioning the war? Would be interesting to hear Horowitz's thoughts about this, actually.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited March 2018 Posts: 18,338
    How soon after WW2 can we assume Bond's first "jobs" took place?
    'It was a pretty sound job. Nice and clean too. Three hundred yards away. No personal contact. The next time in Stockholm wasn't so pretty. I had to kill a Norwegian who was doubling against us for the Germans. He'd managed to get two of our men captured — probably bumped off for all I know. For various reasons it had to be an absolutely silent job. I chose the bedroom of his flat and a knife. And, well, he just didn't die very quickly.'

    I wonder if the case of the Norwegian happened in a pre-DDR Germany, and that he answered to people in the Soviet occupation zone? Take it that 1949 or later (when DDR was established) would be too late…?

    Or did Fleming skew the timeframe of those events to fit his own narrative, by just not mentioning the war? Would be interesting to hear Horowitz's thoughts about this, actually.

    The thing is why would Bond be sent to kill those two men who were working for two of the Axis Powers (Germany and Japan) after WWII was over. That makes zero sense to me. The only way that it does make sense is if the two assassinations occurred during the said war.

    That's how I've always understood it but perhaps Mr Horowitz will enlighten us better on this issue in his forthcoming Bond prequel novel?
  • Posts: 520
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    It is never too late to learn from The Master.

    PussyNoMore is delighted that his Lordship is taking instruction.

    Just to be clear I like and respect you immensely old chap (as a literary Bond fan of some vintage) but I'll have to draw the line at this thing about Fleming being the first continuation author. That is just utter madness to me! Anyway, if that is all we disagree on... :)

    PussyNoMore would respectfully direct his Lordship to the appropriate thread on this matter.
    It is the great Saunders he is in violent disagreement with.
    He set the protocol and Pussy thinks it’s ownly good manners to follow it but to each his own.
    Regarding FA&D, PussyNoMore is polishing his Bentley and testing his Amherst Villiers Supercharger in preparation for the launch.

  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    edited March 2018 Posts: 15,423
    I'd like to think the kills were done during WW2. Because... Why would the Japanese be after the British post-War to "decypher" their codes? They were allies by that time, no? The Norwegian double agent benefiting the Germans wouldn't make sense if it was for the regular Germans against the British and have two British agent captured. Wouldn't that be the Nazi-Germany he'd be referring to? It wouldn't make sense to think the otherwise.
  • Posts: 520
    How soon after WW2 can we assume Bond's first "jobs" took place?
    'It was a pretty sound job. Nice and clean too. Three hundred yards away. No personal contact. The next time in Stockholm wasn't so pretty. I had to kill a Norwegian who was doubling against us for the Germans. He'd managed to get two of our men captured — probably bumped off for all I know. For various reasons it had to be an absolutely silent job. I chose the bedroom of his flat and a knife. And, well, he just didn't die very quickly.'

    I wonder if the case of the Norwegian happened in a pre-DDR Germany, and that he answered to people in the Soviet occupation zone? Take it that 1949 or later (when DDR was established) would be too late…?

    Or did Fleming skew the timeframe of those events to fit his own narrative, by just not mentioning the war? Would be interesting to hear Horowitz's thoughts about this, actually.

    Indeed, if there is a launch event, PussyNoMore will ask him and the point about the occupation zone is more than relevant.
    Reading the books, Pussy had always assumed it was late forties and this stuff about it being during the war is news to him but who knows?

  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,338
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    It is never too late to learn from The Master.

    PussyNoMore is delighted that his Lordship is taking instruction.

    Just to be clear I like and respect you immensely old chap (as a literary Bond fan of some vintage) but I'll have to draw the line at this thing about Fleming being the first continuation author. That is just utter madness to me! Anyway, if that is all we disagree on... :)

    PussyNoMore would respectfully direct his Lordship to the appropriate thread on this matter.
    It is the great Saunders he is in violent disagreement with.
    He set the protocol and Pussy thinks it’s ownly good manners to follow it but to each his own.
    Regarding FA&D, PussyNoMore is polishing his Bentley and testing his Amherst Villiers Supercharger in preparation for the launch.

    Well, certainly, Pussy. You were only following the set form. I can live with that and I like @saunders too of course, though sadly he's not been around of late.

    Sorry if I came across as pedantic about the whole continuation Bond thing but as you know it is an area of special interest to me within the realms of Bondology. Apologies for any offence caused. :)
  • edited March 2018 Posts: 6,017
    For me, I always thought that those two assassinations happened during the war. The Japanese cypher expert could have happened as far as november 1941, not later, for obvious reasons, and the Norwegian double agent anywhen during the war. John Pearsons gives more information in his James Bond : The Authorized Biography. Let's remember that the "two murders in cold blood" rule doesn't say how long it has to be between said murders, nor how far back in time they have to occur, and that the events in Casino Royale happen (as per Wikipedia) somewhen in 195, six years after the war was over. Bond had the time to learn his craft, and be so good at it that he was awarded a CMG.
  • Posts: 17,814
    Would think the assassinations were written as to have happened during WW2 - that's how I read it too. Just interesting to see that it can be debated whether the events could have taken place post-WW2, if only by a few years.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I'd like to think the kills were done during WW2. Because... Why would the Japanese be after the British post-War to "decypher" their codes? They were allies by that time, no? The Norwegian double agent benefiting the Germans wouldn't make sense if it was for the regular Germans against the British and have two British agent captured. Wouldn't that be the Nazi-Germany he'd be referring to? It wouldn't make sense to think the otherwise.

    And it took place in Sweden, which is where Norwegians fled during the war. Part of the resistance operated from there, as it wasn t occupied by Germany.
  • Posts: 520
    Gerard wrote: »
    For me, I always thought that those two assassinations happened during the war. The Japanese cypher expert could have happened as far as november 1941, not later, for obvious reasons, and the Norwegian double agent anywhen during the war. John Pearsons gives more information in his James Bond : The Authorized Biography. Let's remember that the "two murders in cold blood" rule doesn't say how long it has to be between said murders, nor how far back in time they have to occur, and that the events in Casino Royale happen (as per Wikipedia) somewhen in 195, six years after the war was over. Bond had the time to learn his craft, and be so good at it that he was awarded a CMG.

    True, there is no saying that the ‘two murders rule’ has to be confined to a specific time frame albeit it is a stretch to imagine him rushing over prior to Pear Harbour to assassinate a Japanese Cypher Clerk at the tender age of 21 and in the case of the Norwegian it could easily have been a mopping up exercise.This is why PussyNoMore prefers Torgeirtrap’s original hypothesis.
    Not to confuse fact with fiction but it was long assumed that Alexander Litvinenko was murdered by order of the Kremlin because he was a KGB/FSB defector. It now transpires that his specialist subject was ‘Organised Crime’ and that, at the time of his death,he was active for both Mi6 and and the Spanish CNI in specifically helping them with their war on the Russian Mafia. Thus giving rise to speculation that it could have been a Mafia hit. That said, many would argue that Putin’s Kremlin and the Mafia are one and the same.
    PussyNoMore mentions this to illustrate that in the murky world of intelligence one doesn’t have to have a clear answer for anything and Pussy is quite sure Horowitz will interpret Fleming’s skeletal outline of Bond’s past to suit his own narrative and so he should.
    The important thing is that he arrives in his Bentley Blower with his Berreta .25 snugly tucked away in its chamois leather holster, his Moreland specials packed into his gunmetal case and his oxidised Ronson at the ready. Then we can all look forward to some sex and violence set in the most glamorous locations and with none of this #notme3 nonsense or worse still, calls for a gender neutral 007 !
  • PropertyOfALadyPropertyOfALady Colders Federation CEO
    Posts: 3,675
    And just how does @PussyNoMore know that Goldsboro will be offering the original material?
  • Posts: 520
    And just how does @PussyNoMore know that Goldsboro will be offering the original material?
    Visit the Goldsboro site and see the description.

  • Posts: 859
    Like PropertyOfALady, I see nowhere that this edition have the Fleming treatment inside. It is only written :
    - Signed & Numbered
    - Limited Edition
    - Sprayed Edges
    - Hardcover
    - UK First Edition, First Printing
  • Posts: 520
    Like PropertyOfALady, I see nowhere that this edition have the Fleming treatment inside. It is only written :
    - Signed & Numbered
    - Limited Edition
    - Sprayed Edges
    - Hardcover
    - UK First Edition, First Printing

    Look at the front cover of the book they are advertising. It clearly states “ With Original Content By Ian Fleming “
    Last time it was only the Waterstone’s edition - this time it’s in the Goldsboro - but for all Pussy knows, it could be in all.
    PussyNoMore thinks this is relatively clear. N’est-ce-pas ?

  • edited April 2018 Posts: 859
    But Anthony Horrowitz cleary said me in twitter that one edition who include the same text in the cover not include the Fleming treatment (click one for see his answer) :
  • ggl007ggl007 www.archivo007.com Spain, España
    Posts: 2,541
    About the signed edition:

    fnnTv7G.jpg
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    After reading TM, I have no interest in this one.
  • Posts: 520
    With eight weeks to go, there is still no news of the UK launch event.
    PussyNoMore is quite sure that even in the 'fire, steady, aim' world of publishing that they must have it tied down by now - the venue and Horowitz must surely be booked.
    Doubtless some n'er-do-well at Cape is just sitting on the thing while they file his or her nails.
    The Pussy is prepared to move most things around for Bond but if this lackadaisical attitude towards enthusiasts persists, The Pussy may have to boycott the event !
    There, that's them told.
  • edited April 2018 Posts: 17,814
    I'm sure they have the event booked and ready. Anything else would be marketing foolishness (in lack of a better word). Events of this size should usually be planned months ahead - at least when we're talking about a publisher of this size.

    News about the event should be released in the coming weeks, so I wouldn't worry yet. But they should at least have the event announced a month before.
  • Posts: 623
    I've never been to one of these. Is it ticketed for the public?
  • Posts: 520
    shamanimal wrote: »
    I've never been to one of these. Is it ticketed for the public?

    Yes, depending on the type of event the price is often redeemable against purchase of the book - then you can have it signed and dedicated at the end.
    TM was in Waterstones Piccadilly and Solo was at The Royal Festival Hall.
  • Posts: 623
    Ah, cool. I'll keep my eye out on this, sounds like it'd be a fun event.
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