Analyzing the Transition of Power After The U.S. Election and Beyond Into Future Global Politics

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  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    TPP and TTIP are blueprints for fascism. Obama was the one who championed those deals.

    Go look up your dictionary for the very definition of fascism. And try to come up with direct causes for fascism based on historical facts. Because if you continue to say such blatant lies, someone in here has to make you accountable for that nonsense.

    So you think those trade deals can go hand in hand with democratic liberties?
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    A rather succinct summary of some of Trump's recent admin picks:
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/11/30/what-do-trumps-latest-cabinet-nominees-have-in-common-theyre-all-major-donors-to-his-campaign/?utm_term=.abfc058052d1#comments

    Includes a reminder that Trump does threaten people. I am sure plenty of threats are unknown to the public.

    The Ricketts' financial support for Trump was a dramatic reversal from the primaries, when Joe and Marlene Ricketts gave more than $5.5 million to Our Principles PAC, a super PAC that ran a slew of hard-hitting ads against Trump. Their financial backing for the group prompted Trump to threaten to expose secrets about the family, which owns the Chicago Cubs, tweeting that they “better be careful, they have a lot to hide!”
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    This is really something to take note of, be concerned about. How this journalist/photographer was treated at U.S. border recently. Well worth reading in full.
    http://www.cjr.org/first_person/ed_ou_border_standing_rock.php
  • chrisisall wrote: »
    A corporation should not have the rights & protection of a citizen. This was NOT the founding father's intention, but a construct of power & profit.

    All men created equal-the very reason why the USA was created in the first place. With that principle gone, there is no justification for its existence anymore.

    Corporations are not people. Corporations are business entities, CREATED SPECIFICALLY TO BYPASS THE DUTIES AND RESPONSIBILITIES OF CITIZENSHIP. I will believe a Corporation is entitled to the rights of citizenship when one is put in jail for breaking the law.
  • edited November 2016 Posts: 3,566
    What can one man do to address the terrible situation we Americans find ourselves in now? Here's what one man in Blue-state Texas did: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/texas-man-sign-muslims_us_583edc1ae4b04fcaa4d5d6eb
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited November 2016 Posts: 12,480
    Books being vandalized in libraries; hate towards Muslims


    And some thoughts on how people can work to stop the hate, racism:
    http://time.com/4583843/stop-hate-influencers/
    It is not very long; I'll just post the text here: (as usual, bolding/underlining is mine)

    Intimidation and harassment have spiked throughout the country following the recent election. Women, people of color, immigrants, Muslims, Jews and LGBTQ folks, including many of our own students, report palpable fear.

    On Nov. 13, a man threatened to set fire to a University of Michigan student if she did not remove her hijab. On Nov. 16, a man in Sarasota, Florida reported being physically attacked by a person who said, “You know my new president says we can kill all you f-ggots now.” On Nov. 17, a Puerto Rican family’s car was vandalized in West Springfield, Mass., with the words “Trump” and “Go home” scratched into the car, and there have been multiple reports of immigrants being told to “go back where you came from.” The Southern Poverty Law Center collected more than 400 reports of “hateful intimidation and harassment in less than a week following election day.

    How do we stop this violence? Looking in from the outside and reporting events after they occur is not enough. We must understand the perpetrators’ motivations.

    We often think that perpetrators simply mimic the hateful speech and actions of others. In doing so, we discount the effects that community or peer pressure can bring to bear. In fact, research shows that potential perpetrators of hate crimes and bullying are actually quite conscious of the degree to which their community supports or condemns their actions.
    For example, research has found that when a person hears others tell racist or sexist jokes, his or her tolerance for gender or racial discrimination increases. At an extreme level, it can encourage genocide: David Yanagizawa-Drott has shown that inflammatory messages played on a hate radio station, aimed at motivating Hutus to murder their Tutsi neighbors in Rwanda, had a greater effect when people in surrounding neighborhoods were also exposed to the same radio messages. In other words, hate radio alone did not increase individual hatred or violence; rather hate radio coupled with widespread exposure resulted in greater community support for violence.

    Potential perpetrators do not simply “imitate” Trump but rather are encouraged to act by the fact that he garnered so many votes and supporters. They infer that they have a better chance of escaping social and legal sanction than before.

    To stop hateful actions, potential perpetrators must be convinced that those in their community are opposed to this behavior. Who can best communicate this opposition?

    Kevin Munger recently found that white males who racially harass others on Twitter reduced their use of slurs when another white male with a large number of followers admonished them with a tweet (black males, and white males with few followers, were not as successful). In schools, Elizabeth Levy Paluck, Hana Shepherd and Peter Aronow showed that students who receive the lion’s share of attention in student social networks have an outsized influence over school social norms: when they stand up against bullying and student-on-student harassment, student conflict drops by up to 30%.

    These studies suggest that some people are better than others at delegitimizing hatred and violence. These “elite influencers” are more likely to come from a community considered important by a potential perpetrator—whether their racial community or their friendship group. Also, these influencers are more likely to be higher status—connected to many people within those networks.

    But whether or not you are an elite influencer in your own community, evidence shows that the old-fashioned strength-in-numbers approach also works. Large numbers of people who assert values of inclusiveness and tolerance in a big, public way can change minds and behavior. Large media events or assemblies that create “common knowledge” of these values, that show each member of the community that every other member shares these values, are the most successful.

    For example, a public service announcement during the Super Bowl that encourages people to report domestic violence is more successful in deterring domestic violence than an ad in a magazine; a potential perpetrator infers that the millions watching the Super Bowl find domestic violence unacceptable and are more likely to stand against and report offenders.

    A recent study also showed that people who watched a political speech in the company of a crowd (in this case, a speech by U.S. House Rep. Rosa DeLauro, D-CT, on the reauthorization of the Violence Against Women Act), are more persuaded by the speech. Listening together, as opposed to watching alone or watching a video viewed by others at different times, is more effective because when communities synchronize their attention, people process the message in a deeper and more serious manner.

    The alternative, in which communities do not collectively bear witness to and support anti-hate speech, is a scenario in which potential perpetrators will feel more and more emboldened.


    Schools, universities and localities cannot just play defense and wait for their members to be victimized. Potential perpetrators must clearly understand that everyone around them, regardless of their political views, believes that hate is unacceptable. Elite influencers in every community can help to broadcast this message. Standing with them, there is strength in numbers, and as individuals and communities, we need to come together to speak as loudly and publicly as possible.

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    This is really something to take note of, be concerned about. How this journalist/photographer was treated at U.S. border recently. Well worth reading in full.
    http://www.cjr.org/first_person/ed_ou_border_standing_rock.php
    Hitler would approve. [-(
    Real journalists must be controlled- there nothing worse for fascism than the truth exported to the masses it tries to keep ignorant.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited November 2016 Posts: 12,480
    Exactly, @chrisisall. Lines are being crossed ... everywhere. People need to be aware.

    And thank you, @BeatlesSansEarmuffs, for bringing that person to our attention. Yes, I had read that. It is a good example of an individual not staying silent, taking a stand, being supportive in his community.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited November 2016 Posts: 12,480
    Amusing, ridiculous, yet not funny really ...
    General Petraeus, one of the people on Trump's list for Secretary of State, still has to check in with his probation officer. He was convicted. A pardon from Trump could clear him once Trump is in office. The pardon needs to happen at the beginning so Petraeus could actually fulfill the position, without having to continue to check in with his probation officer and face things like his computer and office being searched without a warrant.



    Good old Pogo ... I remember this as a teen ... ;)
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    But Hillary should be in jail.... If the irony wasn't so ugly, it'd be laughable.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Yes, and note he backed down immediately from doing that. His supporters (at least the ones that bought all his campaign hateful rhetoric) must surely be feeling like the rug keeps getting pulled out from under them.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    This is your land. This is my land.

    Woody Guthrie -
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited December 2016 Posts: 12,480
    Medicare ... what will actually happen?
    This is a genuine concern, a huge worry. Look at Trump's administrative picks and what the old guard Republicans want to push through. We cannot go by what he has said, on any matter really.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    This is a terrible concern for all of us...
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited December 2016 Posts: 12,480
    So. How do we stop lies, hateful and misleading rhetoric, and false stories? This election was flooded, overwhelmed. The current president elect is so far continuing on the same path. Those tactics worked well, so why would he stop? Republicans now have more power; why would they stop? They will try to modify and act more tradional, but I do not believe Trump or his inner circle ever well. (Step by step authoritarian plays; interesting, but in a grim way). Populism takes over - drowning facts, stirring strong negative emotions.

    People believe false Facebook stories more than traditional news reporting. Lies gets 'clicks', attention, "go viral", and hammer home/stir up hate. Tell the people who are hurting or feeling neglected what they want to hear and amplify those feelings. Not positive reassurance, just stirring conflict.

    From I can tell, no easy answer to combat this. Facts do need to be reported loudly, more strongly, across the board (all of media).



    Sure, all politicians color the truth at times and worse. But this election cycle has been far, far worse and extreme. If this were a traditional Republican candidate, I would have have issues with some policies but not worried about so many important things for my country.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Save us, Electoral College. And save yourselves in the process. What good is being the 1% in a civil war? Better to be a 3%-er in a unified country...
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited December 2016 Posts: 12,480
    Regarding Carrier deal, there are several reports coming out trying to lay out the details of what has really happened. Here are two:


    and
    http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/11/donald-trump-mike-pence-carrier-jobs-indiana

    I guess we can expect Trump to keep making "deals" and publicizing himself exactly as he has done all along in business and the entertainment world. Basically, no change.
    "I just did this for America!" etc. on twitter. And yet the truth is not what he says. Even if he made an accurate statement, the way he is blowing his own horn - oh, and holding rallies again - will not change. For me, this is a sorry way for our president to act - I mean simply his demeanor, his actions, his words. Just my opinion - I know all politicians blow their own horn. But not like this. And that is aside from what he is actually doing. But the more important matter is what he actually does/does not do, of course. Those ripple effects from his actions so far are not healthy for our country, again just saying my opinion on how he acts (look what has sprung up since the election).

    Please really keep an eye on what is happening to the press. Plus what they say, how they say it, what they leave out - that, too. But also very much how they are treated, when they are denied access, Trump's refusal to have a traveling press corps, refusal to have press conferences, etc. Our rights will be changed for sure, if certain people have their way. A free press is so very important.


    False info regarding scientific claims (climate change in particular) via Brietbart
    https://thinkprogress.org/the-house-science-committee-is-spreading-fake-news-bad-science-and-basically-crap-515c6c899fa0#.650m7knnf
    In part says:
    The article is not particularly surprising, coming from Breitbart. The site, now notorious as a platform for white nationalism, has a history of pushing anti-global warming propaganda and of gleeful attacks on climate scientists and their work.
    Breitbart was formerly headed by President-elect Trump’s current Chief Strategist Steve Bannon, himself a spirited climate science denier. Bannon, while head of the site, said on his daily radio show that the Pope’s concerns about climate change amounted to “hysteria.”
    Posts on the site have called climate scientists, including those employed at the government agencies NASA, GISS, and NOAA “talentless low-lives who cannot be trusted,” and “abject liars.” The same editor of the site who wrote Tuesday’s article wrote in 2014 about his joy in calling climate advocates “eco Nazis,” “eco fascists,” and “scum-sucking slime balls.”
    Breitbart is not a reputable news source. As a site that pushes climate denier propaganda and ridicules scientists, it is particularly not a reputable news source on climate science. In spreading the article, the House Science Committee is validating and spreading dangerous misinformation.


    Trump's choice to lead the EPA denies climate change is real.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2016/11/11/meet-the-man-trump-is-relying-on-to-unravel-obamas-environmental-legacy/?utm_term=.0891823d83b1
    In part says:
    Ebell, who is not a scientist, has long questioned the overwhelming scientific consensus that human activity is fueling unprecedented global warming. He also has staunchly opposed what he calls energy rationing, instead arguing that the United States should unleash the full power of coal, oil and gas to fuel economic growth and job creation.

    All that makes him an ideal ambassador for Trump, who has repeatedly called the notion of man-made climate change a “hoax.”
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited December 2016 Posts: 12,480
    New Trump rally. Same rhetoric indeed. Encouraging and inflaming. People are still chanting, "Lock her up!". More rallies to come? Why would he stop now? And of course he is happy to talk to one news source: Fox. Apparently our country will have this to look forward to, or endure, depending upon your view.http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-idUSKBN13Q5HT?il=0
    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/01/us/politics/trump-kicks-off-thank-you-tour-reveling-in-crowd-and-campaign-themes.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=b-lede-package-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

    This hardly seems like a president elect trying to unite people. He is continuing to sow anger and hatred; divisions. Why? Please think about that. Why would he continue this line of divisiveness and anger? Because it got people riled up enough, united in their fever pitch to trash and system and risk everything on a huge change? Because it got him elected and he sees no reason to change his stance at all.

    Meanwhile, Pence is taking almost daily security intel briefings. (Not Trump, who has spurned them. He gets his security info "elsewhere" according to his spokesperson.)
    Pence. Maybe think about that, too. One figurehead as president, one doing the hard work behind the scenes. But Trump is the one who will have executive power.
  • Posts: 6,601
    I read from time to time, trying to stay out of this, but falling over this - I have to interfer

    Please really keep an eye on what is happening to the press. Plus what they say, how they say it, what they leave out - that, too. But also very much how they are treated, when they are denied access, Trump's refusal to have a traveling press corps, refusal to have press conferences, etc. Our rights will be changed for sure, if certain people have their way. A free press is so very important.


    Free press? Really? Do you really believe, there is such a thing? I thought, by now, people would at least have understood, that press is reporting, what they are told from the few, who own ALL mjor press channels. The main stream media will NEVER, once again - NEVER - report, what is truly going on in most subjects. They are simply not allowed to do so. But search the net and you will find journalists and others, who are sick of the lies, on private and independant channels, who try their best to bring some light into the darkness of lies.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited December 2016 Posts: 12,480
    Free press, meaning one of our country's main freedoms, yes. It is important we don't lose this right. I do recommend people read a variety of articles, from a wide range of media. But freedom of the press is one of the cornerstones of our democracy, so yes I am for it and I am concerned about what I see happening. I "believe in such a thing" - yes. As a general statement, sure I do. The press can be pressured and swayed, etc. There is always inherent bias, etc. But I do not believe there is one main evil group controlling the media, no.
  • edited December 2016 Posts: 6,601
    But 4Ever - they are NOT reporting the truth. How come, people just don't get - not even remotely - what's going on in this world. That is what frightens me, because change comes through understanding. They are laughing at you all the way to get what they want. Manipulated idiots, wondering why everything is so bad. OMG!
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    People need to check for themselves, in a variety of media, to try to discern what is actually happening, what is true, what is not. But I do not believe the press is simply "allowed" by somebody, some group, as to what they say or print. I do think there are some truthful articles out there, in mainstream media. But I also think there is an inherent bias with each publisher and reporter. So we need to read plenty. But I do not think they are manipulated by a group so blatantly told what they must do, what they are allowed to do; no.
  • Posts: 6,601
    But its true. Just check, WHO owns all the mainstream media and then tell me again, they allow them to spit on their plans. Its like you buy a newspaper and allow it to talk badly about yourself, even if you do something bad. You buy it to NOT have this happen in the first place. Its really easy.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    OK, you and I will simply disagree on this.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    At this point in time I think the mainstream press (in general) is pretty well leashed- look at Standing Rock- I think the NYT was the only paper to do a real article on it...
  • Posts: 6,601
    ..and its a bs article, trying to close it and making it look like its for their best. If anybody believes this, I don't know what to say anymore. They couldn't care less about the people. They want their f***ig pipline. That's all and you have to sell that and that's what they are paid to do.

    Clashes - WHO did the clashes? Do they report, that the natives were NOTHING but peaceful? No, of course not.

    But Standing Rock is not over yet. 1000 veterans are marching. Fingers crossed its not closed or they give up their plans. haha - fat chance. What's nature in comparison to big fat bucks, eh? But we will see.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Point is that there's no ONE person or group that dictates to the media; they are influenced & controlled by many different individuals & sources. Not much different now than in Hearst's day. Just easier to see is all.
  • edited December 2016 Posts: 6,601
    No, its a VERY small group, that DOES dictate everything. And I mean EVERYTHING You can google it and try to look behind the surface. Its more difficult then to no no me, but might be more accurate at the end of the day. I could but won't do it for you. But if you guys DONT do it, stop being so assured about your truth. Its obvious, you WANT to believe this. OK, fine, but that doesn't make it anymore true. Its the same with ALL news channels, not just Papers.
    No main stream media will be allowed to report in agreement with the protestors. This article is as far as it goes.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    232 executives in 6 companies are responsible for 90% of American media. This means the media will be VERY favourable to its shareholders, so yes, there is influence more direct than ever before but it's still basically always been pretty much this way. Wanna find a mainstream article challenging the FBI's Red Scare activities from the 50's? Betcha can't!
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Books being vandalized in libraries; hate towards Muslims


    And some thoughts on how people can work to stop the hate, racism:
    http://time.com/4583843/stop-hate-influencers/
    It is not very long; I'll just post the text here: (as usual, bolding/underlining is mine)

    Intimidation and harassment have spiked throughout the country following the recent election. Women, people of color, immigrants, Muslims, Jews and LGBTQ folks, including many of our own students, report palpable fear.

    On Nov. 13, a man threatened to set fire to a University of Michigan student if she did not remove her hijab. On Nov. 16, a man in Sarasota, Florida reported being physically attacked by a person who said, “You know my new president says we can kill all you f-ggots now.” On Nov. 17, a Puerto Rican family’s car was vandalized in West Springfield, Mass., with the words “Trump” and “Go home” scratched into the car, and there have been multiple reports of immigrants being told to “go back where you came from.” The Southern Poverty Law Center collected more than 400 reports of “hateful intimidation and harassment in less than a week following election day.

    How do we stop this violence? Looking in from the outside and reporting events after they occur is not enough. We must understand the perpetrators’ motivations.

    We often think that perpetrators simply mimic the hateful speech and actions of others. In doing so, we discount the effects that community or peer pressure can bring to bear. In fact, research shows that potential perpetrators of hate crimes and bullying are actually quite conscious of the degree to which their community supports or condemns their actions.
    For example, research has found that when a person hears others tell racist or sexist jokes, his or her tolerance for gender or racial discrimination increases. At an extreme level, it can encourage genocide: David Yanagizawa-Drott has shown that inflammatory messages played on a hate radio station, aimed at motivating Hutus to murder their Tutsi neighbors in Rwanda, had a greater effect when people in surrounding neighborhoods were also exposed to the same radio messages. In other words, hate radio alone did not increase individual hatred or violence; rather hate radio coupled with widespread exposure resulted in greater community support for violence.

    Potential perpetrators do not simply “imitate” Trump but rather are encouraged to act by the fact that he garnered so many votes and supporters. They infer that they have a better chance of escaping social and legal sanction than before.

    To stop hateful actions, potential perpetrators must be convinced that those in their community are opposed to this behavior. Who can best communicate this opposition?

    Kevin Munger recently found that white males who racially harass others on Twitter reduced their use of slurs when another white male with a large number of followers admonished them with a tweet (black males, and white males with few followers, were not as successful). In schools, Elizabeth Levy Paluck, Hana Shepherd and Peter Aronow showed that students who receive the lion’s share of attention in student social networks have an outsized influence over school social norms: when they stand up against bullying and student-on-student harassment, student conflict drops by up to 30%.

    These studies suggest that some people are better than others at delegitimizing hatred and violence. These “elite influencers” are more likely to come from a community considered important by a potential perpetrator—whether their racial community or their friendship group. Also, these influencers are more likely to be higher status—connected to many people within those networks.

    But whether or not you are an elite influencer in your own community, evidence shows that the old-fashioned strength-in-numbers approach also works. Large numbers of people who assert values of inclusiveness and tolerance in a big, public way can change minds and behavior. Large media events or assemblies that create “common knowledge” of these values, that show each member of the community that every other member shares these values, are the most successful.

    For example, a public service announcement during the Super Bowl that encourages people to report domestic violence is more successful in deterring domestic violence than an ad in a magazine; a potential perpetrator infers that the millions watching the Super Bowl find domestic violence unacceptable and are more likely to stand against and report offenders.

    A recent study also showed that people who watched a political speech in the company of a crowd (in this case, a speech by U.S. House Rep. Rosa DeLauro, D-CT, on the reauthorization of the Violence Against Women Act), are more persuaded by the speech. Listening together, as opposed to watching alone or watching a video viewed by others at different times, is more effective because when communities synchronize their attention, people process the message in a deeper and more serious manner.

    The alternative, in which communities do not collectively bear witness to and support anti-hate speech, is a scenario in which potential perpetrators will feel more and more emboldened.


    Schools, universities and localities cannot just play defense and wait for their members to be victimized. Potential perpetrators must clearly understand that everyone around them, regardless of their political views, believes that hate is unacceptable. Elite influencers in every community can help to broadcast this message. Standing with them, there is strength in numbers, and as individuals and communities, we need to come together to speak as loudly and publicly as possible.

    This is a good post with very valid points.
This discussion has been closed.