Analyzing the Transition of Power After The U.S. Election and Beyond Into Future Global Politics

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  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801

    By the way, I am getting seriously tired of Trump's reactions on SNL. Seriously, seriously tired.
    Then you'll love this series of replies directly to the man from an informed lady:


    So funny!

  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    So back on here, Monday morning. :)

    I made it through one of the most stressful events of my calendar year at work. All went very well. I listened to a lot of great music yesterday. I had fun searching for offbeat things to post on the Xmas Advent thread. My dog and I walked over half of our mountain. My dog is a good listener. ;) I read a variety of things, including a little about politics. Monday feels pretty good to me. This is my favorite time of year (I love Xmas, I love the weather).

    As for Trump, I am observing and staying aware. I have not changed my mind about the election or him. Indeed so far nearly everything reinforces that. But I can observe, stay on top of things, without getting strongly emotional or stressed, and that is helpful. Honestly, a lot of what is happening in the U.S. now is sickening (and I have friends from several countries writing to me saying how sad, disgusted, and alarmed they are). I do not soften or condone what is happening. But I'm thankful I can be removed enough from it enough so I can continue to be involved, to not hesitate to stay informed. My country is in deep trouble from this election. Yes, I care and that will not weaken.

    Trump will not change, Gustav, and his core supporters do not want him to. (The entire authoritarian playbook is being played out step by step.) There will be little dignity overall.

    I know many people want him to change, to fit the role. But he has shown us all along who he is, what he is, and how he will act. I gave up long ago on him acting with any genuine dignity or demeanor fitting the role of the presidency. And his core supporters never cared about that anyway. They just want change, huge change, tear the system down. Now they have a pseudo rogue leader; his core supporters are thrilled. I do not think anything Trump does will lose their support. Sorry to say. So things can get much worse. He plays to them the most. Therefore, I expect rants every single week on trivial things, things in the entertainment world, plus smoke & mirrors as the more important actions are covered up.

    Look at his overall life, his very words and actions, and it is clear that he will continue the same path. So then look at his administrative choices and that is interesting and helpful to see the kinds of picks he is going with. Trump will be relying heavily on those surrounding him. He comes into the presidency with little knowledge of the actual working political world (his supporters like that, I think) but that lack of experience, and especially his lack of discernment and his ego overriding everything else, are strong flaws, in my opinion. So his surrounding advisers are critical. He has instincts, but is easily swayed.

    If he wants to help our country, to do good, then I just hope and pray that he finds a way to do that in ways that are meaningful, relevant, and peaceful. I hope somehow inside of him he honestly wants to be a good president. His plans and ideas so far are not comforting. Trump, along with the old GOP guard and his entire surrounding advisers, have potential to do great damage. Damage to our civil rights, damage to our core democracy. In their eagerness to obliterate Obama, to settle old scores, to feed their own coffers and egos, they could tear our country apart in many ways. That potential is very real. They could do good for our country ... but it will take a major shift for them, in my opinion. I hope they do, though.

    People seem to keep asking: Did he even really want to be president? I think he did, for his ego, to win that accolade, that prize. But does he want to do all the actual work that entails? I do not think so, because his actions and own words do not reflect that.

    Regarding him refusing to have intelligence briefings from our govt is a genuine warning sign, not smart. But it appeals to continue his "rogue" persona. Pence is taking almost daily intelligence briefings. Conway said Trump gets his intel from "other sources" ... perhaps that could simply mean Trump gets it from Pence. Maybe it does. But maybe that is not all.

    Not moving his family to the White House is problematic on a huge scale. I feel that is detrimental and also reflects badly on him.

    So we can discuss information here, and in personal life with friends and communities - that is a freedom we still have and I feel that is important. The hatred in my country is very strong, very polarizing. It is relevant to note that the president elect has yet to take any strong, consistent stand against the hatred, especially the racism that has sprung up. Indeed, he is still inflaming followers at rallies (upping the hate, the negativity). I think that alone speaks volumes as to who he is and the kind of president he will be.

    If anyone would like to discuss Trump's choices for his cabinet/administrative picks, his aides, all of that - please do. That may be helpful if we can look at those choices without rancor towards each other.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Can Kanye West take the nomination from Trump in 2020?
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Yes, he can! ;)
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    But a lot of us are hoping we don't have to endure even 4 years of Trump.
    Besides, it could well be Pence (!!) not Trump passing the mantle, so to speak.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Wow.

    "Dakota Access Pipeline Denied by Army Corps of Engineers! No win is ever permanent but we can rejoice today because together we created greater justice in the world, we opened the door to heal the old wounds sustained by our indigenous people. President Obama will leave the White House as a great chief of America for this. We must all thank the Native Youth who started this movement who started the camp and ran all over the USA to stop this from happening. It is for them, the unborn and the voiceless that we persist in the struggle. We must also have compassion for the Police who were on the other side of this struggle but are still our brothers and sisters."
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    YES to that. :)
  • Has someone read this article about fake news and other conspiracy 'news'? It seems that people like @BondJames keep denying the very existence of this 'fake news'. I think the internet and social media, and as a result all this 'fake news', conspiracy stuff and other factual untrue bogus, is really starting to hurt society and democracy:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/local/wp/2016/12/04/d-c-police-respond-to-report-of-a-man-with-a-gun-at-comet-ping-pong-restaurant/?utm_term=.6261bfee19b0
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Has someone read this article about fake news and other conspiracy 'news'? It seems that people like @BondJames keep denying the very existence of this 'fake news'. I think the internet and social media, and as a result all this 'fake news', conspiracy stuff and other factual untrue bogus, is really starting to hurt society and democracy:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/local/wp/2016/12/04/d-c-police-respond-to-report-of-a-man-with-a-gun-at-comet-ping-pong-restaurant/?utm_term=.6261bfee19b0

    A guy once put an ad in a national magazine the read Last chance to send $5! and gave the address.He received nearly $20,000. Fake news can & will cause violence.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited December 2016 Posts: 12,480
    "Fake news" is now seemingly used as a phrase, as a retort everywhere in comments (at least on twitter and FB) - very much so when in discussion about actual news, facts. That and labeling things that happen as "false flags" automatically. It seems to be another way to say "la la la la la la; I can't hear you" with hands over ears. That level of maturity. Yes, there is real "fake news," Gustav. It is a large, harmful result that has multiplied this election cycle. The genuine "fake" news that are planted, on purpose, knowingly full of lies; to stir hate and divide our country - those are shameful and still plentiful. Yes, all kinds of horrid things will be stirred up by this kind of thing.

    Here is something, not directly related to fake news, no, but just showing again some ramifications of Trump's campaign's rhetoric and stoking the flames of bitterness and hatred ... how it is affecting children in our country. More articles on this same topic are being put out. This is, sad to say, not a small issue that will go away easily.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited December 2016 Posts: 12,480
    Trump's businesses, and his family's businesses - such as Ivanka's - are not hiding their dealings well, for whatever reasons. How this will be accepted/dealt with/handled by Congress and the American people before the inauguration is actually very important.

    So much has already been done during the campaign year and since the election that before would be deemed "totally unacceptable" ... it is almost overwhelming how many bad things have been said and done, the negative and unsavory way some things have been handled. Therefore, it seems many things are shuttled to the side because each day brings something new and often upsetting to consider. Whether you are Republican, Democrat, Independent or never voted.

    Trump mixing his business, his personal gains, with the role of being the president, should not be put on the back burner until it is too late. Congress, all politicians, need to act now, not just after he is inaugurated in January. Because, I think it is clear at this point, his children (especially Ivanka) will continue to advise him and work directly with other government representatives from other countries, in a "private" role, not officially, but it will happen. A genuine blind trust does not seem to be under serious consideration at all.

    The 2nd article below mentions Jimmy Carter's blind trust also. This is not a brand new issue for an incoming president and has been dealt with sternly in the past.


    http://www.houstonchronicle.com/opinion/editorials/article/Trump-s-swamp-10659215.php?t=74b6fa602a438d9cbb&cmpid=twitter-premium


  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    The genuine "fake" news that are planted, on purpose, knowingly full of lies; to stir hate and divide our country - those are shameful and still plentiful. Yes, all kinds of horrid things will be stirred up by this kind of thing.

    Mainstream media in a nutshell.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited December 2016 Posts: 12,480
    Main stream media is another lovely label but serves a purpose. It has sometimes passed on incorrect and false info, yes - but that is not what I (and others; I am not alone) mean by "fake news"; no.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    More details on Jimmy Carter's blind trust.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Uh oh! No way!

    Roiters AP News International Dec. 5 15:03:16 EST

    NSAF Internal Homeland Securities has discovered that Donald Trump had been abducted by members of a secret Soviet intelligence agency the day after the American Presidential election and replaced with a Putin-approved Ukrainian actor displaying his precise facial features via (presumed and elaborate) plastic surgery.
    "The tip off were his hands," Chief Director Michael J. Saunders stated, "they were way too big."
    This 'clone' of Trump was to be arrested, but he barricaded himself in the top of Trump Tower in Manhattan where he has taken the real Trump's wife hostage.
    SMERSH could not be reached for comment.]
  • CASINOROYALECASINOROYALE Somewhere hot
    Posts: 1,003
    I stopped watching the news it's pretty fake and one sided...
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Roiters. That's cute. :)
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Roiters. That's cute. :)
    Making fake news GREAT again!
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    In what looks like REAL news:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/05/opinion/why-i-will-not-cast-my-electoral-vote-for-donald-trump.html?rref=collection/timestopic/Electoral College&action=click&contentCollection=timestopics&region=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=1&pgtype=collection

    "George W. Bush is an imperfect man, but he led us through the tragic days following the attacks. His leadership showed that America was a great nation. That was also the last time I remember the nation united. I watch Mr. Trump fail to unite America and drive a wedge between us."
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited December 2016 Posts: 12,480
    Yes, there seems to be a good bit brewing with some electors. But what good will come of it? At least they are speaking up, some of them, but I doubt it will change the election result. Adds a little excitement. More importantly, it is nice to hear them following their principles rather than vote for Trump. The Texan elector resigned and I believe will be replaced. But there is a core (I think small) group of electors revolting. Basically, I say good for them.

    But will this change anything? From what I am reading on my lunch hour, some are writing in Republican candidates just NOT Trump (though they were supposed to vote for Trump). ;) Like Kasich or Bush. Some will do the same and take away from Hillary Clinton's electoral college numbers and write in another Democat or even another Republican candidate just not Trump.

    The Electoral College decides the vice president, as well as the president.

    Interesting. The magic # being 270 electoral college votes. So we have what if scenarios to play with.

    IF there really is no clear majority 270 ... it does get interesting. What happens then?
    Can we keep Obama another 4 years? Or we get another election day to vote AGAIN? There are several fun musings we can have with this. But it seems there are steps to be followed ...

    Let's hope that happens. That would REALLY shake things up and, in my opinion, that would be far better than just outright electing Trump in (even if the end result is that).

    I'll try find another source later, but here is this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_College_(United_States)
    Which says in part:

    A candidate must receive an absolute majority of electoral votes (currently 270) to win the presidency or the vice presidency. If no candidate receives a majority in the election for president or vice president, the election is determined via a contingency procedure established by the Twelfth Amendment. In such a situation, the House chooses one of the top three presidential electoral vote-winners as the president, while the Senate chooses one of the top two vice presidential electoral vote-winners as vice president.
    Electors.


    ***

    Contingent presidential election by House
    The Twelfth Amendment requires the House of Representatives to immediately go into session to vote for a president if no candidate for president receives a majority of the electoral votes (since 1964, 270 of the 538 electoral votes).

    In this event, the House of Representatives is limited to choosing from among the three candidates who received the most electoral votes for president. Each state delegation votes en bloc – each delegation having a single vote; the District of Columbia does not receive a vote. A candidate must receive an absolute majority of state delegation votes (i.e., at present, a minimum of 26 votes) in order for that candidate to become the President-elect. Additionally, delegations from at least two-thirds of all the states must be present for voting to take place. The House continues balloting until it elects a president.

    The House of Representatives has chosen the president only twice: in 1801 under Article II, Section 1, Clause 3 and in 1825 under the Twelfth Amendment.


    ***
    There is more to read, but that's enough to start with. Plenty to think about. :)
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Found this. If you'd like to write (and mail) a letter to an elector, the info you need is here. Addresses, sample letter (that you can alter and write whatever you'd like), etc.
    Not email, regular mail. But Dec. 19th is approaching fast ...

    http://directelection.org/
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited December 2016 Posts: 17,801
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    This is an outlet you are recommending people read, @chrisisall? Or just for this news on Dakota pipeline?
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    The companies behind the building of the pipeline:

    https://www.ft.com/content/8951bf62-bb0f-11e6-8b45-b8b81dd5d080
    The companies building the controversial Dakota Access crude oil pipeline said on Monday they intend to press ahead with the project on its planned route, in spite of the US Army’s decision to delay a crucial permit to give time for further studies.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Soros is a master manipulator. A regular puppetmaster.
  • edited December 2016 Posts: 11,119
    bondjames wrote: »
    Rather sad to read, but not unexpected. It's still nothing compared to the daily b/s and gossip parading as news which emanates from all of the US networks.

    France

    French presidential elections will take place in early 2017. The current betting is that Marine Le Pen's anti-EU National Front Party will do very well, although she is not expected to win.

    The most likely forecasted outcome is that the newly elected conservative Republican Party leader Francios Fillon will be the victor next year. He recently defeated both former president (and his prior boss) Nicolas Sarkozy as well as Bordeaux mayor Alain Juppe in the presidential primary, in a 'come from behind' surprise win. Mr. Fillon was the former prime minister under Mr. Sarkozy, and is a big fan of Margaret Thatcher's free market policies. He proposes, like his heroine, to eliminate several public sector jobs. He also wants to increase the working age, is known to be anti-gay marriage and is also anti-Salafism and Muslim Brotherhood. He wants to have better relations with Russia & is relatively hard-line on immigration. Mr. Fillon is also pro-EU.

    The weak ruling left Socialist Party is likely to do poorly next year. They will go into the elections with a new leader because unpopular current President Francoise Hollande recently announced that he will not run again. Their most likely candidate is Manuel Valls, the current prime minister, who threw his hat in the ring today.

    It will be an interesting situation in France next year. Mr. Fillon has tacked to the right, and 'the EU establishment' see him as their hope to defeat Ms. Le Pen, who they fear due to her anti-EU and pro-France nationalist stance. A win for Ms. Le Pen will certainly mark the death knell for the EU. France has been the target of several terrorist attacks over the past few years, and it's likely that this will play into voter's thoughts. Will they trust Mr. Fillon to make good on his campaign promises, or will they see him as an 'insider' who is just saying what he has to in order to fend of Ms. Le Pen? How can he square a pro-EU stance with his anti-immigration rhetoric? We will see.
    583b64dccd7035613077e56c.jpg

    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-election-valls-idUSKBN13U0J9

    That is not true @BondJames. Here in The Netherlands, and especially in this (left-wing oriented) news discussion program -http://www.vpro.nl/buitenhof/lees/nieuws/deze-week.html- Marine Le Pen is favored to win. Because she actually is left-wing-conservative on public institutions; she wants to maintain pensions, healthcare, government subsidies and infrasturcture investments (as opposed to Trump, who will actually destroy more).

    Moreover, her support comes from the regions with old industries in the North-East of France (black is Front National). And those will not vote for Fillon:
    2012_French_presidential_election_-_First_round_-_Majority_vote_%28Metropolitan_France%2C_communes%29.svg

    So the current betting is not that Fillon will win, but that Le Pen has the edge over Fillon. She can still attack Fillon as an establishment candidate who continues destroying the social institutions that continued to fall down during Sarkozy's and Hollande's reign. And you bloody well know it.

    Will the EU get dismantled when Le Pen gets into office? Really, you're naive. The EU is already being destroyed as we speak. It's over. But because the destruction goes so slow, some of us don't see it. But then again @BondJames.....your love for all this destruction, your support for right-wing populism, your shameless exposition of news articles proving your right, is what you like no?

    What does surprise me is the way you still see this entire process as a warning to the EU; as something that can still be used to actually create some positive change. That you actually believe that right-wing populist governments won't face the same shit in four to eight years from now as opposed to what many centrists governments are facing at this very moment.

    My answer: No! Pandora's box has already opened. Within 10 years from now your naive world view will see in what bloody mess we live in, and then you wish you would still live in 2016.

    Every evening when I watch the news I am shaking my head. I see interbellum 2.0 all over the place as we speak. And it depresses me, it makes me sad. And your numb, frivolous style of posting makes me even more depressed. It is up to you to actually come up with your world view after all these populists have actually become establishment assholes in an even more fucked up, dystopian world.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    This is an outlet you are recommending people read, @chrisisall? Or just for this news on Dakota pipeline?
    They rock on most all things.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited December 2016 Posts: 12,480
    Okay; thanks, @chrisisall. I'll check them out further.

    Meanwhile, good to know it looks like our govt's intelligence department is very wary of Trump and Gen. Flynn.


    Article on Flynn (but there are several you can find online, not just this one):
    http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/michael-flynn-conspiracy-pizzeria-trump-232227?cmpid=sf



  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Thanks for sharing what is happening in Europe, @Gustav_Graves , and it is fine you gave us the info here. It is interesting; thank you. But it sounds like you meant to post this on Bondjames' own thread, the other politics thread.
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