Analyzing the Transition of Power After The U.S. Election and Beyond Into Future Global Politics

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  • edited December 2016 Posts: 11,119
    First of all, certain people in here need to stop slashing factual news items as bogus, and turning bogus stuff and conspiracy blogs into real factual news (Or as some other people in here would like to describe: Destroying 'the media' and let the 'real news' prevail, @bondjames?).

    **** all those naive people who still believe that Russia has nothing to do with hacking the US Elections. It is factually wrong. And as people now also start ranting against the CIA (aren't our western national intelligence agencies not protectors of western values? YES they are. Always!), then I think we're severely damaging the longevity of democratic nation states.

    On top of that, Mr Trump will soon find out what the CIA is all about. Again, the man starts attacking the Democrats for that (!!). For **** sake, is this man really turn into a dumber and more naive version of Nixon?? The Democrats have nothing to do with these hacks, they are factually the victims of all this!

    And then there are the so called 'Russian Sceptics' in the Senate, which are both Democrats and Republicans. With senators like John McCain, Rand Paul and Lindesy Graham Mr Trump seems to be on collission course with the US Senate (Sounds very much like Jimmy Carter's collissions with the US Senate in the late 1970's). Mr Trump really needs to tone down his narcistic ranting, especially since he's not even president yet!


    Secondly, what the hell does he think regarding the China relationships?? Again, yesterday during Fox News interview he stressed that he doesn't see any reason to not throw away the 'One China - One State Policy', recognized by the USA under former president Jimmy Carter. China's state media officially said: "We warn the USA that changing the diplomatic policy towards Taiwan can severely threaten USA-China diplomatic relationships".

    I mean, everyone in here knows that China these days is more powerful than the USA. Are we really into a fistfight between the Chinese and Americans, because Trump says it? It's ridiculous and fairly dangerous. And at the same time Trump wants to become more 'peaceful' with Russia? Saying one thing, and doing something else also brings in mixed diplomatic messages to both worldpowers: Russia and China. And by doing so Trump could actually create a much stronger Russia-China axis, and then we know what China can do with their financial possessions in the USA.


    MOD EDIT: Edited for language.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Are we really into a fistfight between the Chinese and Americans, because Trump says it? I[/b]
    We'd lose; they know Gung Fu.

    SO, I was training a new kid at work today, he's like 20 years old. My first impression was that he wasn't very bright, but I ignored it as first impressions can be wrong. He seemed to be having a lot of trouble retaining simple stuff, but I don't have the best short term memory myself, so it didn't matter so much. He was very easy to entertain, and laughed at jokes I made that weren't all that funny. At one point late in the day I said "Well, on the 19th I find out if I'm moving to Canada or not." He asked me to clarify. "Well, the Electoral College casts their final votes then..." I said. He replied "They're doing the Presidential vote over again?" I gave him a thumbnail idea of what was what and added that maybe we could all be spared 4 years of political Hell. "What's so bad about Trump?" he asked in earnest.
    I was right, he's a dope. At least he won't last long there. 8-|
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited December 2016 Posts: 12,480
    @chrisisall, maybe he had not read or seen anything at all about Trump ... nah, I think that is impossible unless he had just escaped from solitary confinement.

    My thought is that Trump always wanted to win the big prize - because that is what drives him, his ego - but not the actual job of being president. I think that is still true, even if just subconsciously. He is doing plenty to provoke other countries - purposefully provoking, even if shooting off emotionally at times, as well as making his administration be the most fully packed with questionable choices that has been seen in .... how many years? A hundred? Or ever?

    There is news every day. That's why it's good to keep reading a lot, and a variety of sources - to try to have a fuller picture of what is really happening, how the political parties and individuals are reacting, handling things, what Trump actually says, etc. Lots of reading, but this is no time to be complacent.

    Trump's attack on the CIA is not totally unexpected. But he is the smart one, smarter than all the generals, remember? He doesn't need our country's intel briefings from the experts who do that sort of thing; no, just once a week a glance at what they have to say is sufficient. I think the CIA has his number pretty well by now, even if he is acting like a loose cannon, and they will figure out how to best handle him. Conway saying that clearly Trump has said he will "put his own people in there, too" (speaking of U.S. intelligence community) is a seemingly throwaway line not to be ignored. That is beyond ridiculous. But Trump and his cohorts are barely hiding their plans, much of which will destroy civil rights and keep tearing our country apart, not build it.

    Trump will not change, Gustav. He won't. That is why impeachment looms as more and more probable. It is up to the other people in power, the politicians, our representatives, to get a backbone and do substantial things: stand up, speak up, and stop where we are headed. And it is up to us. It is up to every day American citizens to put pressure on our govt, on our representatives to act, not just to go along or sit back and complain.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Trump's attack on the CIA is not totally unexpected. But he is the smart one, smarter than all the generals, remember? He doesn't need our country's intel briefings from the experts who do that sort of thing; no, just once a week a glance at what they have to say is sufficient.

    He's manifesting himself more the moron every day, and the various communities in the government are SEEING that... even the far right Repubs... (except Ryan that Evil Emperor wannabe). :))
    I still have hope.
    In the meantime to give myself distraction I'm getting close to finishing my Seaview model (from when the Cold War was a COOL thing)...
    CouM3U6.jpg
  • chrisisall wrote: »
    SO, I was training a new kid at work today, he's like 20 years old. My first impression was that he wasn't very bright, but I ignored it as first impressions can be wrong. He seemed to be having a lot of trouble retaining simple stuff, but I don't have the best short term memory myself, so it didn't matter so much. He was very easy to entertain, and laughed at jokes I made that weren't all that funny. At one point late in the day I said "Well, on the 19th I find out if I'm moving to Canada or not." He asked me to clarify. "Well, the Electoral College casts their final votes then..." I said. He replied "They're doing the Presidential vote over again?" I gave him a thumbnail idea of what was what and added that maybe we could all be spared 4 years of political Hell. "What's so bad about Trump?" he asked in earnest.
    I was right, he's a dope. At least he won't last long there. 8-|

    I think you guys may have hired @CASINOROYALE... :-\"
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited December 2016 Posts: 12,480
    Your model is outstanding, @chrisisall! Keep up the good work. :)

    Russian interference. Yes or no? I do believe that Russia interfered with our electoral process - that seems confirmed now. Many sources, in a variety of media reports. The intent behind the interference is not confirmed.

    I expect many strong pro Trump supporters to call this information (from CIA and our intelligence community) to be "fake" news and false flags. I am well aware that the CIA can do manipulation as well as anybody else in this world and have for years. But do we trust them at all? Can we trust them to a certain extent, to look out for our country - no matter who is president? I hope so.

    The results on Nov. 8th were for a variety of reasons, but to deny Russian interference at this points seems very contrary to logic and common sense. I want our country to stand up to that (interference from any other country) and I would hope the current and future administrations would do all they could to get all the facts and prevent it from happening in the future. Like actually working on this as a common goal, for the good of our country. Some things should be bipartisan and not swept under the table. That is not happening at all these days from what we hear - we, the general public. Who knows what is going on privately? If Hillary were the incoming president, they would go scorched earth and never stop howling.

    Honestly, I am hopeful that our intelligence community will act on its own, in the best interests of our democracy, and do what they can to curtail damage from the Trump administration. They managed Nixon and that took some doing. I realize Trump is looking to be worse than Nixon, in several ways, but I am hopeful that they will not roll over on this.

    And should the Electors, who cast their votes on Dec. 19th, be told everything now?
    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-cyber-idUSKBN1411IC
    In part says:

    ELECTORS WANT BRIEFING ON HACK

    Separately on Monday, one Republican and nine Democratic electors led by the daughter of the House Democratic leader, Nancy Pelosi, wrote to James Clapper, the U.S. Director of National Intelligence, requesting a briefing on the hacking reports before the Electoral College formally decides the election on Dec. 19.

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/congress-to-probe-cia-report-that-russia-interfered-in-us-election-top-gop-leader/article33296895/

    Interesting piece on Trump's administrative picks being so "anti federal govt".
    http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/trump-against-the-american-worker
    This has become a pattern among Trump’s appointments—naming bitter foes of federal agencies to head them, or behead them. It’s happening with health, education, environmental protection, civil rights, even at the State Department, according to reports about Trump’s appointment there. But Trump ran for President as the unlikely defender of the forgotten American worker, which makes his nominating a wealthy, anti-labor C.E.O. from an industry notorious for wage theft and labor-law violations to be his Secretary of Labor incongruous, even for him. I tend to agree with John Cassidy’s theory that, as much as the President-elect may enjoy toying with job applicants, his basic notion at this stage is to give Republican congressional leaders the hard-right Administration they crave so that he can pursue his own interests, including private interests, with a minimum of interference from them. The policy and personnel details have already begun to bore him.
  • I find it interesting that a forum such as this one should house so many people on both sides of the ideological divide that are so suspicious of our own nations' intelligence services. I suppose it just proves that we're most of us reasonably observant and pragmatic people...but still, didn't Felix Leiter ever teach us ANYthing?
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Yes. To keep the fruit. ;)
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Some appropriate artwork, at an appropriate date. :)

  • Your model is outstanding, @chrisisall! Keep up the good work. :)

    Russian interference. Yes or no? I do believe that Russia interfered with our electoral process - that seems confirmed now. Many sources, in a variety of media reports. The intent behind the interference is not confirmed.

    I expect many strong pro Trump supporters to call this information (from CIA and our intelligence community) to be "fake" news and false flags. I am well aware that the CIA can do manipulation as well as anybody else in this world and have for years. But do we trust them at all? Can we trust them to a certain extent, to look out for our country - no matter who is president? I hope so.

    The results on Nov. 8th were for a variety of reasons, but to deny Russian interference at this points seems very contrary to logic and common sense. I want our country to stand up to that (interference from any other country) and I would hope the current and future administrations would do all they could to get all the facts and prevent it from happening in the future. Like actually working on this as a common goal, for the good of our country. Some things should be bipartisan and not swept under the table. That is not happening at all these days from what we hear - we, the general public. Who knows what is going on privately? If Hillary were the incoming president, they would go scorched earth and never stop howling.

    Honestly, I am hopeful that our intelligence community will act on its own, in the best interests of our democracy, and do what they can to curtail damage from the Trump administration. They managed Nixon and that took some doing. I realize Trump is looking to be worse than Nixon, in several ways, but I am hopeful that they will not roll over on this.

    And should the Electors, who cast their votes on Dec. 19th, be told everything now?
    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-cyber-idUSKBN1411IC
    In part says:

    ELECTORS WANT BRIEFING ON HACK

    Separately on Monday, one Republican and nine Democratic electors led by the daughter of the House Democratic leader, Nancy Pelosi, wrote to James Clapper, the U.S. Director of National Intelligence, requesting a briefing on the hacking reports before the Electoral College formally decides the election on Dec. 19.

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/congress-to-probe-cia-report-that-russia-interfered-in-us-election-top-gop-leader/article33296895/

    Interesting piece on Trump's administrative picks being so "anti federal govt".
    http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/trump-against-the-american-worker
    This has become a pattern among Trump’s appointments—naming bitter foes of federal agencies to head them, or behead them. It’s happening with health, education, environmental protection, civil rights, even at the State Department, according to reports about Trump’s appointment there. But Trump ran for President as the unlikely defender of the forgotten American worker, which makes his nominating a wealthy, anti-labor C.E.O. from an industry notorious for wage theft and labor-law violations to be his Secretary of Labor incongruous, even for him. I tend to agree with John Cassidy’s theory that, as much as the President-elect may enjoy toying with job applicants, his basic notion at this stage is to give Republican congressional leaders the hard-right Administration they crave so that he can pursue his own interests, including private interests, with a minimum of interference from them. The policy and personnel details have already begun to bore him.

    Yes, @chrisisall, I too appreciate your Seaview. Who's behind those windows at the bow of the craft? Is David Hedison anywhere to be seen?

    The Russian connection and the response of the electors to this info could very well be a key element here -- yang to the yin of the FBI's "revelations" in the week prior to the election. We will see. I personally would always prefer to have hope, even if it's only in a long shot.

    The New Yorker piece echos my own observations. It's like Trump believes his mandate (if such there truly be) is to dismantle the entire blessed government. It's not like that at all, Donnie. The folks who voted for you did so because they thought you were going to shake things up -- not that you were going to upset the whole blamed apple cart. People are still going to want to eat all those apples...!
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited December 2016 Posts: 12,480
    @BeatlesSansEarmuffs, with Bannon in his ear constantly, the most vile ideas will keep circulating around in his mind. And Bannon does want to tear our whole system down, he has not hid that at all. And yes he is a white supremist, racist, spreader of lies. He is happy to spread racism and violence. No tippy toeing around with other labels for him or Breitbart.
    Here's a cute headline from Brietbart:



    Also, you may have heard that Trump's team are questioning and asking for names of scientists, etc. Making lists. And with Trump's pick to lead the Dept. of Energy, Rick Perry (How ironic! He has said he wants to get rid of it in the past), his pattern continues.


    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/rick-perry-fails-to-remember-what-agency-hed-get-rid-of-in-gop-debate/




  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    chrisisall wrote: »
    SO, I was training a new kid at work today, he's like 20 years old. My first impression was that he wasn't very bright, but I ignored it as first impressions can be wrong. He seemed to be having a lot of trouble retaining simple stuff, but I don't have the best short term memory myself, so it didn't matter so much. He was very easy to entertain, and laughed at jokes I made that weren't all that funny. At one point late in the day I said "Well, on the 19th I find out if I'm moving to Canada or not." He asked me to clarify. "Well, the Electoral College casts their final votes then..." I said. He replied "They're doing the Presidential vote over again?" I gave him a thumbnail idea of what was what and added that maybe we could all be spared 4 years of political Hell. "What's so bad about Trump?" he asked in earnest.
    I was right, he's a dope. At least he won't last long there. 8-|

    I think you guys may have hired @CASINOROYALE... :-\"

    :-O
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Okay, I had to laugh at that.
  • edited December 2016 Posts: 11,119

    Trump will not change, Gustav. He won't. That is why impeachment looms as more and more probable. It is up to the other people in power, the politicians, our representatives, to get a backbone and do substantial things: stand up, speak up, and stop where we are headed. And it is up to us. It is up to every day American citizens to put pressure on our govt, on our representatives to act, not just to go along or sit back and complain.

    Don't forget that Trump isn't a traditional Republican. Like 20% of GOP senators and congressmen have severe doubts about president-elect Trump as well. Just look at the very respected John McCain. He is a maverick...and he will stay a maverick. He doesn't let Trump tell him what to do.

    Hence why GOP-veteran John McCain and Democrat Schumer are now joining forces in investigating the Russian hacks:
    http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/john-mccain-chuck-schumer-russia-hacking-232499

    In a way this developments looks familiair to how Jimmy Carter started to get strained relationships with the left-wing caucus of the Democratic Party, then led by Ted Kennedy. You see something similar happening here with Trump, albeit at a much earlier stage; way before Trump is even president. And that's a huge risk.....from Trump.

    He should not alienate the entire Senate and Congress, and so far it seems Trump doesn't give a shit. That doesn't bode well for the midterm elections in 2018. Moreover, if Joe Biden jumps in as presidential candidate in 2020, Trump might actually have a 'common sense' man with a rather big mouth as well...but then on the left side of the political spectrum.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I am pretty sure the Russians hacked the Brexit vote as well.
  • I'm quite sure the Russians will be unable to hack the California secession vote. (We use paper ballots here. The home of high tech in the USA knows when NOT to use computers.) We'll see how funny you find THAT one when it goes down...
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited December 2016 Posts: 12,480
    Russia interfered throughout the election process. Trump's people were in touch with Russia during that time, also, which they admitted to belatedly. I am not saying they hacked the voting machines. But Russia interfered in every way they could; kind of obvious now, by many reports.



  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited December 2016 Posts: 12,480
    Not much similar to Carter, really. Certainly not as far as intelligence, demeanor, intention, or what has actually been said. Carter had a genuine blind trust, too. Trump has said his children will run his businesses. They will continue to advise him and be involved with his role as president; that is unacceptable. You are right, Gustav, when you say Trump doesn't give a shit. I don't think he does, as far as working with Congress and trying to do best for our country. Several presidents did not start off on great terms with Congress (that's politics and human nature) but progressed. This is a totally different and new situation, with a vastly different person coming into the presidency. It seems clearer every day that promoting the Trump brand is the most important thing to Donald Trump.

    It is up to the rest of our govt to take action and not belatedly. Waiting until the inauguration to stand up and protest things that are happening would not be smart. Let's hope people work together more, including Republicans and Democrats to curtail the worst of what could happen. And the intelligence community is not going to roll over, no matter what it says publicly.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited December 2016 Posts: 12,480
    Good.
    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-climate-idUSKBN1421V0

    The U.S. Energy Department said on Tuesday it will not comply with a request from President-elect Donald Trump's Energy Department transition team for the names of people who have worked on climate change and the professional society memberships of lab workers.

    The Energy Department's response could signal a rocky transition for the president-elect's energy team and potential friction between the new leadership and the staffers who remain in place.

    The memo sent to the Energy Department on Tuesday and reviewed by Reuters last week contains 74 questions, including a request for a list of all department employees and contractors who attended the annual global climate talks hosted by the United Nations within the last five years.

    Energy Department spokesman Eben Burnham-Snyder said Tuesday the department will not comply.

    "Our career workforce, including our contractors and employees at our labs, comprise the backbone of (the Energy Department) and the important work our department does to benefit the American people," Burnham-Snyder said.

    "We are going to respect the professional and scientific integrity and independence of our employees at our labs and across our department," he added. "We will be forthcoming with all publicly available information with the transition team. We will not be providing any individual names to the transition team."


    He added that the request "left many in our workforce unsettled.
    "
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/why-cia-thinks-russia-wanted-trump-win-n695131

    "The FBI, for its part, assesses that Russia's main goal was to sow chaos and undermine American democracy, a senior law enforcement official told NBC News. Helping Trump served that purpose, the official said, but Russia didn't expect Trump to win the election."

    Oh boy.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Exactly. They always want to meddle, influence. They had no idea the big bonus that would get Nov. 8th. If you read some of their translated communications, it is evident. They say things like "Trump continues to amaze." They are thrilled about Tillerson being appointed, too. Of course.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Exactly. They always want to meddle, influence. They had no idea the big bonus that would get Nov. 8th. If you read some of their translated communications, it is evident. They say things like "Trump continues to amaze." They are thrilled about Tillerson being appointed, too. Of course.
    Many folks HERE are happy as well. ;) #-o
    From Russia with love, I guess.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Yep, but I think many more are not happy about it or Trump's administrative choices in general.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Yep, but I think many more are not happy about it or Trump's administrative choices in general.
    He's either hung himself or will go on to fascist ecstasy.
    :-??
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited December 2016 Posts: 12,480
    Yes, Trump is blowing himself up. He is pushing limits as far as he can, even if it is subconscious. He really is. Fascinating in a way, as long as damage to our country, our democracy, can be prevented.
  • timmer wrote: »
    facebook.jpg?1479561006

    Two men who don't even know what definitions like 'self-criticism', 'nuance', 'ethics' and 'humility' mean. These two men have entirely opposite descriptions of these words, as opposed to what our vocabularies are saying.

    I understand that we now live in a world in which masculinity, black-and-white thinking, macho culture, fact-less news, fingerpointing and raised fists have become the new defining elements of global power. China and Russia were already heading that way. The USA is following them with Trump. And add to that some minor masculine leaders like Duterte and Erdogan, and we have to draw some more critical conclusions to our planet. I'm not going to sum them up, but to me they aren't very nice. This new 'masculine morale' doesn't appeal to me.

    Regarding Tillerson, Trump and the entire upcoming cabinet of ultra-rich billionaires and Wallstreet insiders (isn't that the first big broken campaign promise from Trump?), I prefer to be critical and use a fact-based approach to the amount of conflicts of interests that are awaiting us. I hope all people in here can be as critical.

    I have to say that there's one thing I admire about Tillerson: He's an extremely gifted negotiator. And his background could do more good for USA's interests. He's more respected by those more autoritarian world leaders. Which can be helpful. And lastly, he's a realist and acknowledges that climate change caused by humanity isn't a hoax.

    But really. This?
    http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/trump-tillerson-ethics-stocks-232595
    I hope Mr Trump gets rid of all these conflicts of interest before he gets into office. Otherwise he will face hungry, deadly dogs in both Senate and House. And what we don't need now is the full exponential of Nixon's Watergate Scandal.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited December 2016 Posts: 12,480
    Trump shows no signs of cracking down on anyone's conflicts of interest. Certainly not his, but not his cabinet picks either. He'll just let Congress and the rest of the country react. He keeps moving on. I don't expect him to change, not unless forced to. He already canceled his press conference, the one where he said he would explain, make things clear. No, he now moved it till after the Electors have their say on the 19th.

    I can understand why the Electors want full disclosure on the Russian interference now, before the 19th. They have requested that, to be given all information. And some have asked for a delay, moving the date they vote back further until they all have more information. I don't hold my breath it will be moved back for them. But I understand the reasoning.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Nov.19, 2018 New York City
    Citizens surround Trump Tower pleading for radiation pills as Trump walks out to announce cuts in them too to offset the rising cost of the Pan-Asian and Mexican/Brazillian Wars.
    trumpshockreuters-800x430.jpg
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Exactly. They always want to meddle, influence.

    Hm. The first country I think of reading this, is not Russia.
This discussion has been closed.