Analyzing the Transition of Power After The U.S. Election and Beyond Into Future Global Politics

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  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited November 2016 Posts: 17,801
    1. Brexit and election are populist uprising against globalism and authoritarian left.

    2. Positive relations between US and Russia is only a good thing, especially when we were almost daring them to push the nukes with death by sanctions.

    3. TTP is already dead.
    Okay, THANK YOU.
    Now, How is the authoritarian 'left' different than the authoritarian 'right'? Or Is it?
    I'm not seeing a clear difference except for on abortion & gays...

    http://factmyth.com/understanding-the-american-political-left-and-right/
  • Posts: 6,601
    I wonder, why it has to be Chris opening the new thread. He seems a bit - difficult - and prone to being rather "I am the boss" about it. Anybody could have done it and probably with a more open attitude. Hm...
  • Posts: 6,601
    1. Brexit and election are populist uprising against globalism and authoritarian left.

    2. Positive relations between US and Russia is only a good thing, especially when we were almost daring them to push the nukes with death by sanctions.

    3. TTP is already dead.

    Ita amazing, how you turn out to be knowledgeable and intelligent with Turner out of the game in this topic. I always thought, you were and were just playing with us. Maybe you don't even care about the guy and just use him to raise some hell, eh? ;)
  • stagstag In the thick of it!
    Posts: 1,053
    peter wrote: »
    stag wrote: »
    Continue here please.

    Okay then.

    @peter I take on board your comments in your last post to me in the other thread.



    I find it strange that the old thread was closed and this one - discussing the same subject - is opened in it's place?

    @stag, I'm unsure of what you mean about taking on board my comment? I wholly agree with you my terminology was reckless, and my personal distaste and descriptives re: Trump can equally be applied to describe Hillary.





    I simply meant that after reading your post I understand your point of view.

  • stagstag In the thick of it!
    edited November 2016 Posts: 1,053
    Germanlady wrote: »
    I wonder, why it has to be Chris opening the new thread. He seems a bit - difficult - and prone to being rather "I am the boss" about it. Anybody could have done it and probably with a more open attitude. Hm...

    I must say I agree. It's news to me that someone other than a mod can lay down rules. I thought we set our own parameters and, so long as the subject in hand was adhered to (the title suggests a wide ranging discussion anyway) and decency maintained we were free to speak?
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2016 Posts: 23,883
    stag wrote: »
    Germanlady wrote: »
    I wonder, why it has to be Chris opening the new thread. He seems a bit - difficult - and prone to being rather "I am the boss" about it. Anybody could have done it and probably with a more open attitude. Hm...

    I must say I agree. It's news to me that someone other than a mod can lay down rules. I thought we set our own parameters and, so long as the subject in hand was adhered to (the title suggests a wide ranging discussion anyway) and decency maintained we were free to speak?
    I agree with both of you. Especially while some of us were having a discussion that interested us during this lull in Bond news.

    There's nothing to stop him closing this one a whim too if he feels so inclined or if he doesn't like the direction it's going in, despite some active participants asking him not to. If anyone is concerned about that as I am, you may want to think about whether you should waste your time and effort posting here.

    Feel free to let me know if any of you want to start another political discussion thread which we can be assured won't be closed. I'll certainly participate actively in that one, as I did the original American Election thread (but as I said, I will continue to quote from that original thread when the subject matter pertains to discussion that we were having there before it was shut down).
  • edited November 2016 Posts: 6,601
    Makes all no sense, but even if some of us opens a new thread, they can close it all the same.

    Has anybody read, that Bernie Sanders will help Trump going after the kartell, in cheaper medication and higher costs for companies going abroad etc? I only have German links.

    http://www.msn.com/de-de/nachrichten/politik/bernie-sanders-bläst-zum-klassenkampf/ar-AAkvXwY?li=BBqg6Q9
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Germanlady wrote: »
    Makes all no sense, but even if some of us opens a new thread, they can close it all the same.
    And that would certainly tell me a lot, if they did that. Let's hope it doesn't come to that.
  • stagstag In the thick of it!
    Posts: 1,053
    bondjames wrote: »
    There's nothing to stop him closing this one a whim too if he feels so inclined or if he doesn't like the direction it's going in, despite some active participants asking him not to. .

    I've seen this sort of thing on another forum so can confirm what you are saying is accurate. In that instance someone opened a political discussion thread and laid down a set of rules thus giving him the ability to steer the direction of the 'discussion' (though it wasn't really a discussion) to suit his own agenda.

    Just for clarities sake let me set my own stall out. I am a proud Brexiteer who actively campaigned during the referendum campaign. IMHO the best thing Trump has done - even before he has come into office - is to send the ruling EU elite into panic mode.

    What transpires in Italy next month and France, Germany and Holland next year will make for interesting debate indeed.


  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    stag wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    There's nothing to stop him closing this one a whim too if he feels so inclined or if he doesn't like the direction it's going in, despite some active participants asking him not to. .

    I've seen this sort of thing on another forum so can confirm what you are saying is accurate. In that instance someone opened a political discussion thread and laid down a set of rules thus giving him the ability to steer the direction of the 'discussion' (though it wasn't really a discussion) to suit his own agenda.

    Just for clarities sake let me set my own stall out. I am a proud Brexiteer who actively campaigned during the referendum campaign. IMHO the best thing Trump has done - even before he has come into office - is to send the ruling EU elite into panic mode.

    What transpires in Italy next month and France, Germany and Holland next year will make for interesting debate indeed.
    I agree. It's going to be a fascinating year in Europe next year and I'm excited to see how it plays out. France is the one that interests me the most. Front National taking a win there would be unprecedented. The French also have a penchant for giving the middle finger to bureaucrats from time to time, and may have been emboldened by what happened in the UK & US.

    I recall your comments on the Brexit thread and am glad it worked out as you wanted. The intricacies of navigating the exit is going to be tricky, and fraught with political risks. I have confidence May can pull it off however, and Trump's win will give her cover.

    I look forward to discussing with you and others, and hope we can do it openly without any impingement by mods or thread owners. My preference would be on another thread as the credibility of this one is questionable at the outset, but if it must be here, then so be it.
  • edited November 2016 Posts: 6,601
    stag wrote: »

    Just for clarities sake let me set my own stall out. I am a proud Brexiteer who actively campaigned during the referendum campaign. IMHO the best thing Trump has done - even before he has come into office - is to send the ruling EU elite into panic mode.

    What transpires in Italy next month and France, Germany and Holland next year will make for interesting debate indeed.


    Very much agreed and I sure hope, Germany is smart enough to send Merkel, where she belongs, which is NOT as head of our country. Trump is a sign and I just love the panic mode, he send them into. They will try to hinder him - even coming into office - with all their strength and maybe they succeed, BUT, what he stands for, which is voting AGAINST, what the Americans were told, cannot be undone, same for the Brits. They were the first to stand up against the plan to unite us all furthermore, so an even smaller group has ALL the power. They are trying get that water in one hand, that money doesn't exist anymore and many things more, Oh, lets talk about chips. That's real nice one. All of that and many more such plans, being in the making BTW, totally give them the control over about everything and leaves us with no rights AT ALL!

    ...and don't even start with conspiracy theories, because that would really how naive you are.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2016 Posts: 23,883
    @Germanlady, I will be reading up on German politics in advance of next year's election. In terms of Merkel, outside of her immigration stance, what are your views on her leadership? Has she been decent for the country outside of the refugee crisis in your view? There was a time when I recall she was looked upon quite favourably.
  • Is it true that Trump really wants to raise a 45% (!!) tarif on all imported goods from China?
    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-asia-trade-idUSKBN13F01G
  • Posts: 12,526
    We know Bond is fictional, but I wonder with Brexit, a Trump election, Upcoming elections in France and Germany respectively? Whether they may influence the next Bond storyline? We know the Craig era reflects current times to a certain degree and with Marine Le Penn saying warm things about Putin as has Donald Trump? Bond 25 could have a very interesting twist or two? Especially if as I assume they will? Spectre involvement!
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    Some respect for @chrisisall, please. The mod team would rather this political nonsense stay out of our forum altogether but because we have faith in chrisisall to manage this thread well, it can remain open for now. However, if those who contribute spoil the fun for everybody, we shall have no alternative but to close the thread, despite the host's best efforts. Let's remain civilised, shall we. Thank you.
  • CASINOROYALECASINOROYALE Somewhere hot
    Posts: 1,003
    Being an American I ask the mods to please lock any political threads. It's literally just a trump bashing thread and people calling trump supporters a racist and nazi supporter which is disrespectful and upsetting to those who voted and support him. 80% of the forum users on here are obviously democrats or liberals. There's no point in having these threads.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Politics and forums don't mix well.
  • edited November 2016 Posts: 6,432
    Deleted
  • CASINOROYALECASINOROYALE Somewhere hot
    Posts: 1,003
    Murdock wrote: »
    Politics and forums don't mix well.

    Agreed. It's just not possible.
    Wish it was but it's not going to happen.
    You can re name it whatever you want but this will not work, you'll get your typical republican bashers.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Debates & discussions only get heated when one or both sides resort to whiny nonsense to demonstrate their frustration & discontent. I've had amazingly detailed discussions with people I totally disagreed with & it remained absolutely civil (I debated a Catholic priest once about God and Christ- and if that doesn't start a fire nothing will :P ).
    Some of you don't seem to get my sense of humour, and that's okay. I started this thread, but the thread is not mine. It's everybody's here. When I act bossy, it's usually with my tongue in my cheek (Yeah, I'm a cheeky bastid).
    All that to say, take this thread wherever you all want to, just please do it with intelligence and remember we're only sharing/challenging opinions here and not saving/destroying the world or anything.
    :)>-
  • Posts: 6,601
    Must say, I am out for good to not further feed the "political nonsense". I feel, this is a very inappropriete and also personal opinion thing to say. What we try to fight, the more we acknowledge it, is the way, our "superiors" tell us what to do, think, believe and how to behave. I dont need this in a Fan Forum, Even more so, when wverything was in good Order. So bye political thread.
  • stagstag In the thick of it!
    Posts: 1,053
    Germanlady wrote: »
    Must say, I am out for good to not further feed the "political nonsense". I feel, this is a very inappropriete and also personal opinion thing to say. What we try to fight, the more we acknowledge it, is the way, our "superiors" tell us what to do, think, believe and how to behave. I dont need this in a Fan Forum, Even more so, when wverything was in good Order. So bye political thread.

    +1 on all points. No one was getting heated, either here or in the other one (which was closed without explanation and for no good reason) and to suggest that members cannot engage in debate on important issues without resorting to insults is in itself an insult. I really expected better here and am disappointed not to see it. With this in mind I too withdraw from this thread. Just to add however that to allow this thread (or indeed any threads) to be 'managed' by anyone but a mod is not a good idea.

    I suppose the removal of Germanlady and now myself from this thread may be seen as a victory for some however that same 'victory' is Pyrrhic in its nature.

    Meanwhile - and because of what has been said - this thread will either wither on the vine or deteriorate into a mutual appreciation society.

    Roger and out.

  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    Posts: 2,722
    Regarding Russia: I prefer to take a wait and see attitude to what the incoming Administration's posture on this is. Russia has valid security interests on its western flank, and also has long standing interests in Syria. There can be no viable long term solution to the Syrian mess without active Russian and Iranian involvement, and the Trump Administration will have to devise an approach that recognizes and accomodates this reality.

    One thing Obama did improve on from the Bush era was normalisation of relations with Iran. I truly hope that the Trump administration keeps this progress in motion. This could be problematic with Trump's anti-Muslim rhetoric over the campaign. And as relations with Russia improve I expect that relations with largely Muslim countries will decline. Especially in light of the 'Muslim database' becoming a talking point. Something that Trump proudly proposed then seem to backtrack on - as is his wont.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    something that Trump proudly proposed then seem to backtrack on - as is his wont.
    Trouble is, he said a lot of things to seem opposed to the status quo to get the protest vote and it worked. Now the boys in DC will begin to tell him what's what. So yeah, different than the Obama (or a Hillary) administration, but not all that different I expect. A little worse for women & Muslims, a little better for trade agreements & tax breaks for the 1%. But basically just another polarizing POTUS that will mess up the Middle East- just differently.
    Sorry to seem so not-optimistic...

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2016 Posts: 23,883
    @Germanlady, @stag, @Mendes4Lyfe, @Gustav_Graves, @CASINOROYALE, @peter, I'm out. I'll touch base with you on another thread where we can have a reasonable discussion without being disrespected by our host..

    @DarthDimi, it may be 'political nonsense' to some, but not all members. Some of us know how to have respectful discussions on topics that interest us, including politics, and have demonstrated that on numerous occasions on numerous threads. You've already indicated that it's not your cup of tea and I respect that. I would appreciate you explaining to me why you allowed this thread moderator to close the prior thread (you can PM me if you'd like). I would have hoped that you would have considered the interests and comments of other members on that thread who were contributing in good faith. He may have created it, but others kept it alive.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited November 2016 Posts: 17,801
    One good thing that will come from this administration that could never have come from a Clinton one is that finally we as a nation will have proof that Obama was not the dope the Republicans tried to paint him as. If Clinton had won there'd be more obstructive nonsense to make political points whilst claiming the problem is HER and her Democratic corruption. With a Republican majority all around when nothing gets done and civil liberties start to falter, they will have naught but a mirror to look to. THEN we will all see how severely similar the two parties are. How much they are both slaves to their corporate masters. THEN an independent like Bernie (or someone new) will have an amazing chance next time around!
    :)>-
  • Posts: 4,622
    That's one hell of a thread title!
    So no more hippie-song vids and pictures of girls.
    Damn!
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    timmer wrote: »
    That's one hell of a thread title!
    So no more hippie-song vids and pictures of girls.
    Damn!
    For you, @timmer:
    KevinWarn.BernieSanders.02.jpg
  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    Posts: 2,722
    chrisisall wrote: »
    One good thing that will come from this administration that could never have come from a Clinton one is that finally we as a nation will have proof that Obama was not the dope the Republicans tried to paint him as. If Clinton had won there'd be more obstructive nonsense to make political points whilst claiming the problem is HER and her Democratic corruption. With a Republican majority all around when nothing gets done and civil liberties start to falter, they will have naught but a mirror to look to. THEN we will all see how severely similar the two parties are. How much they are both slaves to their corporate masters. THEN an independent like Bernie (or someone new) will have an amazing chance next time around!
    :)>-

    Much depends on the Republicans keeping the house. If they can - then they will be able to enact their agenda. For the most part the make up of his team are tactical decisions - Romney would be a good move because, wildly, he would be seen as moderate. Pence's appointment has always been to placate the evangelical faction. Gingrich would be good because he is as Republican establishment as it gets - so he would be a good filter for the 'drain Washington' mission. Mattis seems like a safe bet for def sec. However Pompeo to lead the CIA is more likely to meet with questions when needing senate confirmation. Especially considering his stance on torture. But he has Trump's backing on this who doesn't think waterboarding is strong enough and wants tougher methods in place.

    But Trump will have his own appointments to keep him isolated - these are Bannon and Kushner. Now, just as matter of common sense a leader needs to surround himself with a mixture of people but he needs loyal members who will have his back and I believe Kushner, and to a lesser extent Bannon (who like Trump is at his heart a capitalist opportunist), represent the best people to protect Trump's interests.

    I think one thing I do like is the concept that the president should stand as a moral or ethical figure has well and truly vanished. That much is clear. So I hope the idea of that is eradicated for good, because it was a bogus construct in the first place, considering the contradictory and sometimes bigoted character of former presidents. At least with Trump this lie has been laid bare.


  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited November 2016 Posts: 17,801
    I think one thing I do like is the concept that the president should stand as a moral or ethical figure has well and truly vanished. That much is clear. So I hope the idea of that is eradicated for good, because it was a bogus construct in the first place, considering the contradictory and sometimes bigoted character of former presidents. At least with Trump this lie has been laid bare.
    I think the Nixon & Monica things started that particular peeling away, but yeah, Trump has finished it off nicely. Not that I like that... but reality isn't always so nice to our fantasies.
    Good analysis above that, BTW.
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