Analyzing the Transition of Power After The U.S. Election and Beyond Into Future Global Politics

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  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited January 2017 Posts: 12,480
    Amusing tidbit here. In the "what next?" kind of category ... ;)


    And you know, if we put all the fact checks correcting Trump into a book it would have to be at least 12 volumes.

    No surprise at all re blind trust will not be blind. Therefore, rather useless.

    Trump will not appropriately divest and that is still not the very most worrying of issues (though probably in top three).
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Is anyone really buying this Russia nonsense still?
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited January 2017 Posts: 12,480
    Yeah because it is not nonsense. More and more of it is verified. Trump's ties go back to the 80's with deals with Russia, just to state one point. Previous pages here have links going into Russia's involvement/interference (not hacking machines) with our election year. They used him fully, to influence our election and are surely happy to have gotten results beyond what they expected. It goes deep and is being investigated by more than a few. So it will unravel, but there is truth to it.

    And here is some other food for thought.













    Note that there are other articles on previous pages here, but I have to leave for work.
    These links usually lead to other articles, not just one person's opinion.

    Anyway, check a variety of sources. There is plenty of research on Trump and Russia - and not the made up stuff, not just funny memes - to be found.





  • SuperintendentSuperintendent A separate pool. For sharks, no less.
    Posts: 871
    Actually, it's a complete nonsense. There is literally zero evidence about Russian hacking.

  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited January 2017 Posts: 12,480
    No it is far from nonsense, but you are of course entitled to your opinion.
    Lots of other concerns aside from Russia, mind you. But it is of importance.
  • SuperintendentSuperintendent A separate pool. For sharks, no less.
    Posts: 871
    Zero. :)

    The biggest concern is USA continuing to drop bombs and kill people all over the world.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/09/america-dropped-26171-bombs-2016-obama-legacy?CMP=share_btn_tw



    But feel free to believe in everything MSM serves.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited January 2017 Posts: 12,480
    No. So we shall completely disagree that's all. :) Though why you would be less worried with Trump and bombs, I don't know.

    Take Russia out of the equation entirely. Go ahead. The other issues about Trump and the GOP are of grave concern for Americans. Our civil rights, education, health care, science, environment, fair labor laws, the Supreme Court - all of that. So ignore Russia. There is plenty to focus on with the incoming administration. At least we are getting some clear warnings.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Take Russia out of the equation entirely. Go ahead. The other issues about Trump and the GOP are of grave concern for Americans.
    And take 75% of the rest out at random. The remaining 25% is still enough to make concerned & educated citizens do this:
    eyebrow-012.jpg
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited January 2017 Posts: 12,480
    Actually, you are spot on (Spock on?!), @chrisisall. ;)

    Sadly, true.

    Here is info on bill the GOP just passed, in broad strokes: (bolding is nine)

    Republicans on Wednesday passed a bill in the House of Representatives that touched on nearly every step U.S. agencies take in creating and applying new rules, continuing their blitz to radically reform "abusive" federal regulation of areas from the environment to the workplace.

    In a 238-183 vote, the House passed the "Regulatory Accountability Act," which combined eight bills aimed at changing how the vast government bureaucracy runs. Only five Democrats voted for it.

    The legislation would give President-elect Donald Trump tools "to wipe out abusive regulation," said Bob Goodlatte, the Judiciary Committee chairman who is among the many House leaders calling for lighter regulation and saying the costs to comply with federal rules are too high.

    Republicans say there is little accountability for regulations that apply to almost every aspect of American life because they are created by appointed officials and not elected representatives. Federal agencies operate either independently or under the president's authority.

    The current reform push is part of Trump's campaign promise to "drain the swamp," House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy said on Wednesday.

    As House Republicans push for reform - last week they passed bills requiring Congressional approval of major rules and giving Congress power to kill dozens of recently enacted ones - Democrats are fighting back.

    Democrats have said the many extra procedures required by the reform bills would stall agencies' work, making it impossible to create needed regulations on the environment, financial markets and other areas. Democrats contend that slowing down rulemaking is intended to help big businesses escape oversight.

    The accountability act would jeopardize the government's capability "to safeguard public health and safety, the environment, workplace safety and consumer financial protections," the Judiciary Committee's senior Democrat, John Conyers, said before the vote.

    "Worse yet, many of these new requirements are intended to facilitate the ability of regulated entities - such as well-funded corporate interests - to intervene and derail regulatory protections they oppose," Conyers said.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    edited January 2017 Posts: 4,585
    Zero. :)

    The biggest concern is USA continuing to drop bombs and kill people all over the world.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/09/america-dropped-26171-bombs-2016-obama-legacy?CMP=share_btn_tw



    But feel free to believe in everything MSM serves.

    The guardian is MSM. And you conveniently left out that article's warning: the fear that Trump will make matters worse.

    I mean, if dropping bombs is the biggest concern, then Trump's connection to Putin is very much a serious, serious concern. Don't moralize about bombs and then embrace Putin. Make no mistake: what Trump and Tillerson want to do is ultimately STRENGTHEN the Russian economy and thus strengthen their military might. And Putin makes no qualms about killing innocent people, even those aboard a commercial jetliner.

    Obama has to walk a very fine line here. While his ultimate goal is to promote peace in the Middle East, he also has to exhibit strength against Al Qaeda and ISIS. He inherited a mess from W, with no easy way out. I think he has responded as well as could be expected. Critics can't possibly think that a Republican in office would have dropped fewer bombs. It sure is odd that the far left views Obama as a "war monger" while right seem him as a soft, Muslim-sympathizer. Well...which is it?

    As progressive as I am, I am also a realist, with friends and family who were only blocks from the WTC when it went down on 9/11. I had one who was in one of the towers just the day prior. There were children on board those airplanes, including one who was going on her first trip to Disneyland. I can't imagine the horror that the parents must have been in, holding their child, somehow trying to tell her that they were going to be OK.

    Golda Meir once said, "“We can forgive the Arabs for killing our children. We cannot forgive them for forcing us to kill their children. We will only have peace with the Arabs when they love their children more than they hate us.”

    There ya have it.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited January 2017 Posts: 12,480
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited January 2017 Posts: 17,801
    *MEH*, facts are for mathematicians- politicians & deplorables demand cold hard emotion!!!
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited January 2017 Posts: 12,480
    :O) Don't pay attention to what Trump says or does; he does not mean "that" ...
    says his entire team. Like every day. Facts do get in the way, sure.

    All of this will be spun this way and that way. Which is politics, yes. But we just get so much more of this with Trump.

    From the L.A. Times, on Trump's press conference:
    +++++++

    MADE CLEAR

    Conflicts of interest

    Trump will not sell his major assets to avoid potential conflicts of interest.

    "President-elect Trump should not be expected to destroy the company he built," his attorney Sheri A. Dillon said.

    The Trump Organization will make " no new foreign deals " during Trump's presidency, but new domestic deals will be allowed, Dillon said.

    Trump has "relinquished leadership and management" of his company, but plans to resume running the company after his presidency.

    "I hope at the end of eight years, I'll come back and say, 'Oh, you did a good job.'" Trump said. "Otherwise, if they do a bad job, I'll say, 'You're fired.'"

    He's not releasing his tax returns . "I'm not releasing the tax returns because as you know, they're under audit," Trump said.

    Since the IRS routinely audits each president's tax returns, that would seem to rule out disclosure for the duration of his presidency.

    Intelligence agencies

    He blames the nation's intelligence agencies for leaking derogatory information about him.

    "It was disgraceful — disgraceful that the intelligence agencies allowed any information that turned out to be so false and fake out. I think it's a disgrace, and I say that — and I say that, and that's something that Nazi Germany would have done and did do," he said.

    LEFT UNCLEAR

    Border wall

    Trump said he wants to move ahead quickly with building a wall along the Mexican border, but did not explain how it will be paid for.

    Taxpayers "will be reimbursed" by Mexico, he said, but it's "less likely that it's a payment" from the Mexican government. Maybe "a tax" would be involved, he said, without specifying what that might mean.

    Obamacare

    He doesn't like the Republican plan to repeal Obamacare now and replace it later, Trump said. But he provided no clue on what his administration's own Obamacare replacement plan would look like.

    Trump said he would submit a plan after his Health and Human Services secretary pick, Rep. Tom Price, wins confirmation, something that's not likely to happen until next month at the earliest.

    Big drug companies are Trump's latest target, and he revived the idea of having the government negotiate drug prices for federal programs like Medicare. But he said nothing about how he would convince congressional Republicans to approve negotiated drug prices, something they have staunchly opposed for years.

    +++++++
    And this also: http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-pol-trump-policy-20170111-story.html
  • edited January 2017 Posts: 11,119
    Is anyone really buying this Russia nonsense still?

    I do. And it would be wise if you buy it too. The responsible British MI-6 agent Chris Steele is already hiding in a secret safehouse as we speak. The respected research journalist Carl Bernstein worked on this case. Moreover, what interests do you support actually? Western interests? Or Russian interests?
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I support human decency and fair play.
  • Posts: 11,119
    I support human decency and fair play.

    Exactly, that's why you support the findings of Carl Bernstein from yesterday's CNN article. We just can not have a president who once got pampered by the Russians in the Moscow Ritz-Carlton by a bunch of prostitutes. So I fully agree, we need to have human decency back. Thank you Carl Bernstein for another great piece of factual research journalism. Thank you ex-MI6 secret agent Christopher Steele for uncovering all this. You are the true heroes.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/12/christopher-steele-ex-mi6-officer-named-as-author-of-trump-dossier
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    That whole story was made up by some user on a messageboard and went viral.The word unverified gets used a lot here, and for a reason. But shit sticks just the same.
  • Posts: 11,119
    That whole story was made up by some user on a messageboard and went viral.The word unverified gets used a lot here, and for a reason. But shit sticks just the same.

    That is pure utter bullocks. Just like Wikileaks..........this file got leaked as well. And I do admit much of the dirt from the leaked DNC files and Hillary Clinton are true. But when it's about Trump suddenly it's all vile dirt no? By the way it wasn't made up. That's a lie. Fact. Ask Carl Bernstein.

    You should have seen Trump yesterday during the press conference. His sickening autoritarian style of fingerpointing, his harsh "NO! Not you! You're CNN!". It turned my stomach.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    CNN is a giant propaganda machine who distort reality. They are very much like the BBC in that regard.
  • edited January 2017 Posts: 11,119
    CNN is a giant propaganda machine who distort reality. They are very much like the BBC in that regard.

    The fact that you call CNN and BBC 'a propaganda machine' and not RussiaToday and SputnikNews, shows how little you know about the very definition of 'propaganda'. And probably you even think Breitbart is much more neutral, nuanced and balanced than CNN.

    Also, the fact that more and more people are lambasting domestic news agencies and not foreign Russian news agencies, shows how little they care for the status quo representative democracy in which free press/journalism is sometimes called the '4th power' or 'guardian of the Checks and Balances System........the legislative (Congress, Senate), judicial (Courts) and executive branch (Government with President/PM). And I go one step further. The more people like you and others keeep destroying our own institutions while at the same time glorifying Putin more and more, the more you are in my eyes a person who betrays your own country. A traitor so to say.

    Make no mistake. In Russia there's no Checks and Balances and free press. But hey, this is falling more and more on deaf ears. A clear sign to what extend western representative democracies are slowly being hollowed out. Because once the trust in the system falls apart (in for instance the USA, the UK or The Netherlands), which is the case with you @Thunderfinger, the actual system will slowly fall apart with it.

    You can quote me on that in 25 years from now.

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I don t know anything about Sputnik News, so cannot comment.
  • Posts: 11,119
    I don t know anything about Sputnik News, so cannot comment.

    It's time you look into that in greater detail, before you start making despicable acusations about our own Western institutions.

  • SuperintendentSuperintendent A separate pool. For sharks, no less.
    Posts: 871
    TripAces wrote: »
    Zero. :)

    The biggest concern is USA continuing to drop bombs and kill people all over the world.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/09/america-dropped-26171-bombs-2016-obama-legacy?CMP=share_btn_tw



    But feel free to believe in everything MSM serves.

    The guardian is MSM. And you conveniently left out that article's warning: the fear that Trump will make matters worse.

    I mean, if dropping bombs is the biggest concern, then Trump's connection to Putin is very much a serious, serious concern. Don't moralize about bombs and then embrace Putin. Make no mistake: what Trump and Tillerson want to do is ultimately STRENGTHEN the Russian economy and thus strengthen their military might. And Putin makes no qualms about killing innocent people, even those aboard a commercial jetliner.

    Obama has to walk a very fine line here. While his ultimate goal is to promote peace in the Middle East, he also has to exhibit strength against Al Qaeda and ISIS. He inherited a mess from W, with no easy way out. I think he has responded as well as could be expected. Critics can't possibly think that a Republican in office would have dropped fewer bombs. It sure is odd that the far left views Obama as a "war monger" while right seem him as a soft, Muslim-sympathizer. Well...which is it?

    As progressive as I am, I am also a realist, with friends and family who were only blocks from the WTC when it went down on 9/11. I had one who was in one of the towers just the day prior. There were children on board those airplanes, including one who was going on her first trip to Disneyland. I can't imagine the horror that the parents must have been in, holding their child, somehow trying to tell her that they were going to be OK.

    Golda Meir once said, "“We can forgive the Arabs for killing our children. We cannot forgive them for forcing us to kill their children. We will only have peace with the Arabs when they love their children more than they hate us.”

    There ya have it.

    I haven't left out anything. If you read my post again, you'll see that's exactly what I said. Along with the fact that, as we speak, Obama's bombs and drones are killing people in 7 different countries, which makes him a war monger and a MIC controlled puppet. Quoting Golda Meir or anyone else doesn't make him less of a killer.
  • edited January 2017 Posts: 628

    Exactly, that's why you support the findings of Carl Bernstein from yesterday's CNN article. We just can not have a president who once got pampered by the Russians in the Moscow Ritz-Carlton by a bunch of prostitutes. So I fully agree, we need to have human decency back. Thank you Carl Bernstein for another great piece of factual research journalism. Thank you ex-MI6 secret agent Christopher Steele for uncovering all this. You are the true heroes.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/12/christopher-steele-ex-mi6-officer-named-as-author-of-trump-dossier

    You did read that Guardian article, right?

    Steele's dossier includes unverified allegations that the Russians have compromising info on Trump. There is no fact about any of it as far as we know. And until that information is verified, you can stop acting like a nincompoop.

    Also, there is division among journalists as to whether this information should have been presented to the public:

    http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/unverified-dossier-trump-russia-divides-journalists-n705926

    EDIT: Surprise, surprise. There are holes in Steele's report:

    "The operative’s reports also included multiple other claims that are now in question: One of the operative’s reports alleges that Michael Cohen, a top lawyer in the Trump organization, had met with Russian officials in Prague involved in hacking the election. On Wednesday, Cohen denied he had ever been to Prague and produced his passport to prove it. Another of Steele’s reports, first reported by Yahoo News last September, involved alleged meetings last July between then-Trump foreign policy adviser Carter Page and two high-level Russian operatives, including Igor Sechin — a longtime associate of Russian President Vladimir Putin who became the chief executive of Rosneft, the Russian energy giant. After initially declining to comment, Page wrote a letter to FBI Director James Comey after the story was published denying that he had ever met with Sechin; the Trump campaign, however, cut its ties to him."


    (https://www.yahoo.com/news/the-man-behind-the-trump-dossier-was-former-british-spy-004221154.html)
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    This is all academic. The fact is that Trump is a messed up dude who's unfit for the position, and the fact is that almost half of America doesn't care one tiny bit because they're ignorant, desperate, authoritarian, or a mix of the above.
  • Posts: 628
    No, that's your opinion. Although I do agree with you about Trump being a "messed up dude."
  • Posts: 11,119
    From Electoral-Vote.com:
    Trump's Presidency Will Be Like No Other

    President-elect Donald Trump held a press conference yesterday, his first in six months, and made it clear his presidency is going to like none of his predecessors'—and not in a good way. He is defiant, will continue to attack his opponents, ignore reporters' questions, not reveal his tax returns, pooh-pooh ethical and financial conflicts of interest, refuse to put his assets in a blind trust, and deny the reports that his campaign had contact with Russia before the election.

    He also made if clear that his promise not to do business deals while president is out the window, as he said he discussed a $2 billion deal with a Dubai businessman Hussein Damack last weekend, but decided against it. In case anybody missed the point, he said: "I could actually run my business and run my government at the same time."

    Despite this boast, Trump said he was looking at a plan to shift some assets into a trust managed by his adult sons. However, he would continue to own the company and presumably know what assets it has, thus making it very possible to make official decisions that benefit him personally. Walter Shaub, head of the Office of Government Ethics, immediately denounced Trump's plan, saying that it doesn't meet the standards all presidents have met for four decades. Then he added: "Stepping back from running his business is meaningless from a conflict of interest perspective." Shaub pointed out that a trust controlled by Trump's children doesn't meet the test of being a blind trust. Now, in all fairness to Trump, it would be nearly impossible to sell his hundreds of companies quickly, and simply donating them to his children would incur a massive gift tax. But it would be possible to put them in a trust run by an independent trustee, who could start the process of selling off hotels and golf courses one by one and using the proceeds to buy stocks, bonds, and other assets without telling Trump what he had bought.

    Glenn Kessler, the Washington Post's fact checker, did a fact check on the press conference and found 15 statements that don't pass muster, ranging from exaggerations to statements that are flatly untrue. For example, Trump said, "The only one that cares about my tax returns are the reporters." However, a Pew Research Center poll conducted last week showed that 60% of Americans want him to release his tax returns.

    In short, Trump was extremely arrogant. While he didn't quote Louis XIV ("l'état, c'est moi"), that is probably only because he doesn't speak French. But the sentiment is clearly the same. He is going to drive the Democrats nuts, but they have only limited power (filibustering legislation and Supreme Court appointments). But there is a fair chance he is also going to cross Republicans in Congress one time too many. The British bookie Ladbrokes is taking bets on whether Trump finishes his first term. Currently the implied probability that he either resigns or is impeached before Jan 20, 2021, is 52%. (V)
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited January 2017 Posts: 17,801
    Escalus5 wrote: »
    No, that's your opinion.
    I'll explain my deductions.
    Almost half of the voters voted for Trump.
    Are they evil? No, this is not possible. Evil on this scale would result in continuous & bloody anarchy.
    Are the intelligent? No, else they would not have voted for Trump.
    Are they happy? Based on rally footage from across the country, decidedly not.
    Are they Liberal? No, being liberal generally requires not being in or near poverty.
    What's left?
    Being in poor economic conditions, being not very well educated, and being open to authoritarianism as well as all the other usual 'isms' associated with fascist mentalities.
    There are of course a smattering of hardcore KKK types that see Trump as their vehicle towards White Supremacy and the hopeful wishfuls that see Trump as some sort of 'outsider business guy' that can set things right, but they aren't the majority IMO.
  • Posts: 12,526
    The difference in style and substance between Obama and Trump is staggering from a Brits point of view! X_X
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