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I think you make one big mistake here though. Asking yourself who facilitated all that polarization back in 2016.
Not once, not ONCE on here you have been questioning at least one tiny 'thing' that doesn't fall very well with the Trump presidency.
And although I condemn every bit of violence -I saw it here in Barcelona too, ultra-left wing protesters destroying branches and ATM's of banks-. But when it's about Trump, you're always looking at the deeper consequences, the historical perspective and nuanced causes why Trump 'happened'.
But once it's about some violent protests from 'the left', in which you are ignoring the huge peaceful Women's March, all those nuances and historical perspectives are gone and you start fingerpointing. Suddenly it's all about 'the left' and 'the right' and a load of simplistic alt-right innuendo.
That's when you show color in here. That's all about calling the kettle black, because then you become a big facilitator of polarization and division yourself. And STILL you don't have the guts to admit that in 2016 Trump was perhaps the biggest facilitator of division and polarization.
Trump isn't nuts. Trump is damn smart....at least media-wise. But the polarization this narcissist brings to the US society is entirely facilitated by Trump right now. He's the president. He could have been the 'unifier in chief', but he doesn't give a rat's ass about that. Not saying that the polarization in US society has more profound and deeper causes. But if you keep being 'mild' on Trump, in which I barely read criticism from your side to his style of 'governing', and if, at the same time, you blast the people on the other aisle with no nuance at all.....you start loosing my respect.
Lastly, can you please tell me what's so wonderful about creating diplomatic wars like these? http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/01/26/mexican_president_pena_nieto_is_finally_done_trying_to_reason_with_trump.html
I don't know if you know about the current relationship between Turkey (a big transit country of immigrants) and the EU. But it seems Trump starts cornering Mexico in such a way, that President Enrique Peña Nieto could easily become the next 'Erdogan' of the Americas. Make no mistakle, Mexico is a transit country like Turkey. If Trump really wants to tackle a so called 'immigrant crisis' he's pointing at, he needs to cooperate with Nieto, not cornering the man.
Alas, all I say on this glorified Miss Universe pageant page will fall on deaf ears @BondJames. And don't start the same old "If you read carefully in the past, you could have read I was critical about Trump"-shit again. Criticise WHILE I discuss with you, and don't start referring cheaply to past stuff.
Oh but Saudi Arabia! Ha!
But it is step by step horrendous, authoritarian leaning firmly into (or already there) fascism, unConstitutional. Currently some things he has put in place are illegal - and so much of this is genuinely unAmerican.
What should we do about this? Yell at Trump thru social media? Make furious and hilarious memes? March? Yell at extremes on both sides? Yell at the middle? Accept our doom, restart our bad habits ('cause life is short and who cares?), just give up? We need so much more, seriously.
Congress is still rolling over because they (as a group) want their spoils from this plunder and think they can still use Trump. And some may be under serious pressure in ways we do not know about. We need to call and write and visit Congress, our local reps, all of that. And calling is more effective than writing.
Meanwhile, our country is on an awful path. Bannon wants chaos. Talk of civil war and arming ourselves, etc. is playing into Trump and Bannon's hands. They love stirring this pot while Trump signs orders after orders so he can "justify" himself for his core base, looks like he is "making good" on his campaign promises. The wall will be paid for by taxpayers and not be a deterrent. It is such a false thing, and not at all practical.
Just saying. Let's keep our heads and go by the book, hard & legally, to hit back at this administration. We must work together, all sides, or this will sink our country. Damage is already being done, for sure.
Yes, the ties with Russia won't go away. But focus on each step, each new law he signs off on, is important. But don't be swayed into only one protest, one point to argue. He is throwing everything out and putting in his own rules as much as possible, muddying the waters as much as he can, and it is not easy to stay on top of all that is happening. But we must.
Don't stop protesting, in groups, marches or demonstrating. But also, please, call Congress.
Trump is influenced by Infowars, Fox news, Bannon and Flynn (to name just some of his top influences). America needs all the help it can get now.
In several ways, his team is showing incompetence, along with lack of logic or sense. (See Kellyanne or Sean Spicer on tv anytime to watch spin, lies, manipulation, and cowardice in action. ) Executive Orders put through without checking with legal departments, without coordinating with the agencies they affect (leaving them high and dry and not responding to their frantic queries).
And, yes, Trump speaks mostly word salad. But our system gave him the power to sign these executive orders, to hire advisers who do not need to be confirmed by Congress, etc. His whole demeanor is embarrassingly most of the time; but that is not an important issue. Yet, for what it's worth, here are Trump's own words on what he just signed recently ...
Remember sitting in history, thinking “If I was alive then, I would’ve…”
You’re alive now. Whatever you’re doing is what you would’ve done.
and
I've been thinking of this, too ...
Bannon:
Oh, and Trump ? I was thinking the other day, and it occurred to me that he was like the politician from this book :
This is not going to end well.
There's always talk about getting rid of it every time there's a close election, but it would take a massive effort to make that happen, as it would probably necessitate an amendment to the Constitution.
There is an effort underway to circumvent that process, however, that would involve changing laws at the state level to award the state's electoral votes to the winner of the national popular vote rather than to the actual winner of the state. This would necessitate getting enough states on board to the point where 270+ electoral votes would be awarded in that way, which in and of itself would doom the Electoral College. Whether that would hold up on a legal challenge, though, is a different thing altogether.
I don't think they'll get rid of it, at least not now. Trump almost certainly has no appetite for it, as it's the only thing that got him elected in the first place. Going to the alternative method would undermine his "legitimacy", so he's not going to lead that charge.
There does need to be a discussion on how to change the College, though, not about getting rid of it. How you'd go about reversing what has been done to the College and returning it to its original intent, I'm not sure. Maybe by turning it into something like the Supreme Court, with lifetime appointments? I don't know, but there is a conversation that needs to be had. I do think, though, that it should mostly act as a rubber stamp for the people, as the people generally have gotten it right with who we've elected as president, but it must also be able to act to stop something like a Trump presidency from happening, because such a thing is a direct threat to the very nature of the democracy in the first place, as we're now seeing in just his first week on the job.
I want to add something more to that. Another example: The Netherlands. We don't have an electoral college. We don't have a two-party system. We don't have a president.
Instead we are a multi-party system. We don't vote in a district system, but with ranking lists from each party (for instance, if one party wins 13% of the seats in the 150 seats parliament, the highest ranked politicians on that party's list get a seat in the chamber). Instead we have a constitutional monarchy & parliamentory democracy, in which the King is the semi-ceremonial Head of State and the Prime-Minister a so called 'chairman' of the cabinet.
Taking into account these pivotal differences and nuances between the Dutch democracy and the American democracy, we both are suffereing from Islamist radicalism and terrorism and right-wing (and left-wing) radical populism. Both democratic systems can not cope with the demise of the middle class and the destruction of the political moderate centre. Actually, that moderate centre gets all the blame now.
These are the polls as of today. And despite the differences in democratic systems, also here right-wing populism is thriving. Currently, Geert Wilders and his party PVV (Party for Freedom) is the biggest. An this time around people tend to agree that the current centre-right liberal VVD, the current governing party, will be loosing heavily:
[img][/img]
So probably The Netherlands will get its own problems with this multi-party system. It will become almost impossible to form a majority (75+1) coalition government. Especially when you take into account that some 20 years ago CDA and PvdA easily gained more than 45 seats. So also here, democracy can't keep up with the growing implosion of the sensible political centre and the radical rise of right-wing (and left-wing) populism.
Conclusion: Make no mistake, our democracies are loosing, regardless of the differences between each other's democracies.
It's the harkis all over again.
Anyway, the purpose of the new edict from Trump is anti-Muslim. Do not be fooled into thinking otherwise. Flynn and his son have both used the hastag #muslimban recently, then deleted it. Bannnon, who basically wrote this Executive Order, is a white supremist who wants chaos. He is not stupid. He wrote it pretty carefully. He is so dangerous. Flynn is mentally unstable and pushes conspiracy theories and has a huge chip on his shoulder from being fired before and wants revenge. Yes, that is true. So we are in seriously dangerous waters with Flynn in a top position, gathering all intel agencies to report to him. That is asinine and so dangerous - yet flying under the radar due to other hot issues bubbling up. Also, Giuliani frankly says that was the intent, to curb Muslims. Just icing on that bigoted, unConstitutional cake.
Fortunately, some Federal judges are stepping up, ordering a halt to this (at least temporarily while reviewing everything). And many lawyers volunteering to help with process and paperwork. With Congress stunned and doing an obvious stall, for whatever reasons, Federal judges are playing and important role and will continue to do so. I suggest contacting judges directly, as well as Congress.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/01/29/trump-asked-for-a-muslim-ban-giuliani-says-and-ordered-a-commission-to-do-it-legally/?tid=sm_tw&utm_term=.34ded134c6ba
Get moving, Congress. Do it.
Basically, this:
And especially, not to be forgotten, this:
Decisions made by FLYNN and others - and Kelly and Mattis there ONLY if asked to the meeting. Think about that.
"The ACLU is getting “multiple reports” that federal customs agents are siding with President Trump — and willfully ignoring a Brooklyn federal judge’s demand..."
So now we see if it comes to civil war. This is how it can start. Follow the law or MAKE your own law. This could get messy.
That is why I dislike saying "civil war" - though we are in a battle for our country's very democracy, no doubt. But any real violence should be off the table entirely. That is playing exactly into Bannon and Trump's hands - they want us divided, they want literally a civil war. Then they put in Martial Law and cut media, etc. I am not kidding.
Civil and legal protests - please flood our govt with them. Contact judges and support them. Time is of the essence. But we must have control, peaceful protest (which ARE happening abundantly!) and legal push back.
http://europe.newsweek.com/four-federal-judges-rule-against-trump-ban-549831?rm=eu
https://www.buzzfeed.com/chrisgeidner/federal-judge-orders-halt-to-deportations-under-trump-order?utm_term=.gmMZ0pokE#.viQyKjmgX
Maybe our safety stop gap. Judges and others.
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/01/28/512158238/arrivals-to-u-s-blocked-and-detained-as-trumps-immigration-freeze-sets-in?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20170129?r
I do live in Spain.
This is beyond asinine. And distracting us from all that they are doing, trying to stay under the radar with their reorganization of agencies. etc.
I think I'm getting used to it now. Albeit in a tired and unsettling way. Especially when you watch Bond movies:
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/01/a-clarifying-moment-in-american-history/514868/
In full: (as usual, bolding is mine)
I am not surprised by President Donald Trump’s antics this week. Not by the big splashy pronouncements such as announcing a wall that he would force Mexico to pay for, even as the Mexican foreign minister held talks with American officials in Washington. Not by the quiet, but no less dangerous bureaucratic orders, such as kicking the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff out of meetings of the Principals’ Committee, the senior foreign-policy decision-making group below the president, while inserting his chief ideologist, Steve Bannon, into them. Many conservative foreign-policy and national-security experts saw the dangers last spring and summer, which is why we signed letters denouncing not Trump’s policies but his temperament; not his program but his character.
We were right. And friends who urged us to tone it down, to make our peace with him, to stop saying as loudly as we could “this is abnormal,” to accommodate him, to show loyalty to the Republican Party, to think that he and his advisers could be tamed, were wrong. In an epic week beginning with a dark and divisive inaugural speech, extraordinary attacks on a free press, a visit to the CIA that dishonored a monument to anonymous heroes who paid the ultimate price, and now an attempt to ban selected groups of Muslims (including interpreters who served with our forces in Iraq and those with green cards, though not those from countries with Trump hotels, or from really indispensable states like Saudi Arabia), he has lived down to expectations.
Precisely because the problem is one of temperament and character, it will not get better. It will get worse, as power intoxicates Trump and those around him. It will probably end in calamity—substantial domestic protest and violence, a breakdown of international economic relationships, the collapse of major alliances, or perhaps one or more new wars (even with China) on top of the ones we already have. It will not be surprising in the slightest if his term ends not in four or in eight years, but sooner, with impeachment or removal under the 25th Amendment. The sooner Americans get used to these likelihoods, the better.
The question is, what should Americans do about it? To friends still thinking of serving as political appointees in this administration, beware: When you sell your soul to the Devil, he prefers to collect his purchase on the installment plan. Trump’s disregard for either Secretary of Defense Mattis or Secretary-designate Tillerson in his disastrous policy salvos this week, in favor of his White House advisers, tells you all you need to know about who is really in charge. To be associated with these people is going to be, for all but the strongest characters, an exercise in moral self-destruction.
For the community of conservative thinkers and experts, and more importantly, conservative politicians, this is a testing time. Either you stand up for your principles and for what you know is decent behavior, or you go down, if not now, then years from now, as a coward or opportunist. Your reputation will never recover, nor should it.
Rifts are opening up among friends that will not be healed. The conservative movement of Ronald Reagan and Jack Kemp, of William F. Buckley and Irving Kristol, was always heterogeneous, but it more or less hung together. No more. New currents of thought, new alliances, new political configurations will emerge. The biggest split will be between those who draw a line and the power-sick—whose longing to have access to power, or influence it, or indeed to wield it themselves—causes them to fatally compromise their values. For many more it will be a split between those obsessed with anxiety, hatred, and resentment, and those who can hear Lincoln’s call to the better angels of our nature, whose America is not replete with carnage, but a city on a hill.
This is one of those clarifying moments in American history, and like most such, it came upon us unawares, although historians in later years will be able to trace the deep and the contingent causes that brought us to this day. There is nothing to fear in this fact; rather, patriots should embrace it. The story of the United States is, as Lincoln put it, a perpetual story of “a rebirth of freedom” and not just its inheritance from the founding generation.
Some Americans can fight abuses of power and disastrous policies directly—in courts, in congressional offices, in the press. But all can dedicate themselves to restoring the qualities upon which this republic, like all republics depends: on reverence for the truth; on a sober patriotism grounded in duty, moderation, respect for law, commitment to tradition, knowledge of our history, and open-mindedness. These are all the opposites of the qualities exhibited by this president and his advisers. Trump, in one spectacular week, has already shown himself one of the worst of our presidents, who has no regard for the truth (indeed a contempt for it), whose patriotism is a belligerent nationalism, whose prior public service lay in avoiding both the draft and taxes, who does not know the Constitution, does not read and therefore does not understand our history, and who, at his moment of greatest success, obsesses about approval ratings, how many people listened to him on the Mall, and enemies.
He will do much more damage before he departs the scene, to become a subject of horrified wonder in our grandchildren’s history books. To repair the damage he will have done Americans must give particular care to how they educate their children, not only in love of country but in fair-mindedness; not only in democratic processes but democratic values. Americans, in their own communities, can find common ground with those whom they have been accustomed to think of as political opponents. They can attempt to renew a political culture damaged by their decayed systems of civic education, and by the cynicism of their popular culture.
There is in this week’s events the foretaste of things to come. We have yet to see what happens when Trump tries to use the Internal Revenue Service or the Federal Bureau of Investigation to destroy his opponents. He thinks he has succeeded in bullying companies, and he has no compunction about bullying individuals, including those with infinitely less power than himself. His advisers are already calling for journalists critical of the administration to be fired: Expect more efforts at personal retribution. He has demonstrated that he intends to govern by executive orders that will replace the laws passed by the people’s representatives.
In the end, however, he will fail. He will fail because however shrewd his tactics are, his strategy is terrible—The New York Times, the CIA, Mexican Americans, and all the others he has attacked are not going away. With every act he makes new enemies for himself and strengthens their commitment; he has his followers, but he gains no new friends. He will fail because he cannot corrupt the courts, and because even the most timid senator sooner or later will say “enough.” He will fail most of all because at the end of the day most Americans, including most of those who voted for him, are decent people who have no desire to live in an American version of Tayyip Erdogan’s Turkey, or Viktor Orban’s Hungary, or Vladimir Putin’s Russia.
There was nothing unanticipated in this first disturbing week of the Trump administration. It will not get better. Americans should therefore steel themselves, and hold their representatives to account. Those in a position to take a stand should do so, and those who are not should lay the groundwork for a better day. There is nothing great about the America that Trump thinks he is going to make; but in the end, it is the greatness of America that will stop him.
Saudi Arabia.