Analyzing the Transition of Power After The U.S. Election and Beyond Into Future Global Politics

145791043

Comments

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Funny thing is more immigrants than ever are flooding into the US now, to be sure they get in before Trump takes office.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,838
    Funny thing is more immigrants than ever are flooding into the US now, to be sure they get in before Trump takes office.
    Smugglers are fanning the flames of fear to make a killing. Black Friday was nothing compared to this fire sale...
    8-|
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    People are desperate in many places in the world. Yes, they are trying to get into the U.S.; this will not stop.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    NY Times today on Trump and his businesses, conflict as president:

    It is rather long, with details. Just in part says:
    “It is uncharted territory, really in the history of the republic, as we have never had a president with such an empire both in the United States and overseas,” said Michael J. Green, who served on the National Security Council in the administration of George W. Bush, and before that at the Defense Department.

    ***
    The globe is dotted with such potential conflicts. Mr. Trump’s companies have business operations in at least 20 countries, with a particular focus on the developing world, including outposts in nations like India, Indonesia and Uruguay, according to a New York Times analysis of his presidential campaign financial disclosures. What’s more, the true extent of Mr. Trump’s global financial entanglements is unclear, since he has refused to release his tax returns and has not made public a list of his lenders.

    In an interview with The Times on Tuesday, Mr. Trump boasted again about the global reach of his business — and his family’s ability to keep it running after he takes office.

    “I’ve built a very great company and it’s a big company and it’s all over the world,” Mr. Trump said, adding later: “I don’t care about my company. It doesn’t matter. My kids run it.”

    ***

    And in Turkey, officials including President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, a religiously conservative Muslim, demanded that Mr. Trump’s name be removed from Trump Towers in Istanbul after he called for a ban on Muslims entering the United States. More recently, after Mr. Trump came to the defense of Mr. Erdogan — suggesting that he had the right to crack down harshly on dissidents after a failed coup — the calls for action against Trump Towers have stopped, fueling worries that Mr. Trump’s policies toward Turkey might be shaped by his commercial interests.

    Mr. Trump has acknowledged a conflict of interest in Turkey. “I have a little conflict of interest because I have a major, major building in Istanbul,” he said during a radio interview last year with Stephen K. Bannon, the Breitbart News executive who has since been designated his chief White House strategist. “It’s a tremendously successful job. It’s called Trump Towers — two towers, instead of one. Not the usual one. It’s two.”

    These tangled ties already have some members of Congress — including at least one Republican representative — calling on Mr. Trump to provide more information on his international operations, or perhaps for a congressional inquiry into them.


  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,838
    He is conflicted. ;))
  • Well at least we've got a discussion taking place in this thread. The "Trump Error" thread seems to be taking the shape of a monologue.

    A question for those of us participating in this discussion, then: how do you feel about the efforts to force a recount in states like Wisconsin etc.? Or the backstage maneuverings in the electoral college, attempting to deny Trump the Presidency there? Are these wasted efforts, doomed to failure? Or is there still some hope from these directions? With Hillary actually winning the popular vote by 2 million votes, and the obvious meddling in this election by both Russian hackers and the FBI, do you think it a foregone conclusion that Trump has actually won this election "fair and square" -- or dare we force the issue in a fashion that we had no stomach for in 2000 with the Bush/Gore contest? Personally, my feeling is that Bush II's regime was SO bad that we dare not risk another such illegitimate Resident in the White House. Therefore, I'm willing to support any and every effort to deny Trump the office that he hasn't actually earned. Other opinions are certainly welcome...
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited November 2016 Posts: 12,480
    I do believe that there were extraordinary circumstances, more of which are still coming to light, that do legitimize a recount. I am not a rabid "recount!!" yeller. I have only come to that conclusion based on numerous reports of voter suppression and Russian meddling in our election. There is no harm in doing a recount and I do support it.

    I don't hold my breath on this at all. But while we still have all our freedoms, and Clinton does have more than 2 million more votes than Trump PLUS the issues as stated above, I feel democracy would be best served by doing an accurate recount. Just do it. Then we move on to the next steps, whatever that may be.

    I feel more harm would be done by NOT giving a recount, at this stage.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited November 2016 Posts: 17,838
    Personally, my feeling is that Bush II's regime was SO bad that we dare not risk another such illegitimate Resident in the White House. Therefore, I'm willing to support any and every effort to deny Trump the office that he hasn't actually earned.
    I'd sure like a do-over. That said, there's a movement to disband the Electoral College. I see it this way: on Dec. 19th they do the right thing and go with the popular vote (as is their right by law) and protect us all from this dangerous demagogue -OR- they put Trump in thus establishing once and for all the uselessness of this 'tool' and the need for its removal.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited November 2016 Posts: 12,480
    Russia -


    Trump does not want a recount. Not a surprise. When he lost Nevada, his team immediately made noise and wanted a recount. One could only imagine at this point how strident he would be for calling for a recount if he had lost to Clinton by say 100,000 votes. Or a million. Or a hundred. Or 5 million. ;) It would not matter. He surely would have loved to have also won the popular vote and actually have a mandate, but no ....


    I think a recount is fine, democratic (we still are one so far, right?), and would help us move forward. I am not counting on it reversing anything - but I do feel it would serve America's best interest to do so, and do it properly. No need for ugly talk from either side. Just do it.

  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited November 2016 Posts: 12,480
    I have varied thoughts on the Electoral College and in general think it should be eliminated ... IF they do not do the right thing and stop Trump. It was put in place as a stop gap (for various reasons back then) and could be used correctly, in the best interest of our country, now. But I doubt that will happen.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited November 2016 Posts: 12,480
    http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/11/clinton-campaign-will-join-jill-steins-recount
    Clinton's team's response to the recount, taking a cautious note but supporting it.

    I have not been familiar with J. Alex Halderman, but I'm reading that he is very respected and perhaps his words carry more weight than others on this issue. (from above article, but he has been quoted in many articles recently)

    On Tuesday, New York Magazine reported that computer scientist J. Alex Halderman and a colleague had found "persuasive evidence" that vote totals in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania could have been "manipulated or hacked."
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Voter suppression (NC a leading example) has been an issue for several years. Also this year. So not just the hacking an issue. Plenty written on voter supression now, but here is one article from Nov. 10th:

    In addition to systemic barriers, voters faced individual obstacles on Election Day, Clarke said during a news briefing on Thursday. The problems included long lines at polls, voters’ names not appearing on registration lists, a lack of polling place assistance for foreign-language speakers and “poll workers who requested strict photo ID in states where no such ID was required.”

    Groups that monitored Tuesday’s election “have documented beyond any doubt that voter suppression and a conscious effort to shave off 1 or 2 percent of the vote in key states, in all likelihood, influenced the outcome of this election,” said Wade Henderson, the president of the Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights.

    Read more here: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/election/article113977353.html#storylink=cpy
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,838
    Wow, it IS as bad as I'd imagined.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Voter suppression now is not nearly as bad as some people on Trump's team are planning. Let's not forget this:
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited November 2016 Posts: 12,480
    Fake news another obvious concern. We have many serious concerns, all happening at the same time. And please still keep your eyes on Trump's appointments.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/russian-propaganda-effort-helped-spread-fake-news-during-election-experts-say/2016/11/24/793903b6-8a40-4ca9-b712-716af66098fe_story.html?postshare=5001480036529328&tid=ss_tw
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,838
    Fake news another obvious concern. We have many serious concerns, all happening at the same time. And please still keep your eyes on Trump's appointments.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/russian-propaganda-effort-helped-spread-fake-news-during-election-experts-say/2016/11/24/793903b6-8a40-4ca9-b712-716af66098fe_story.html?postshare=5001480036529328&tid=ss_tw
    Who said they missed the Cold War? It's BAAAA-AAAK.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited November 2016 Posts: 17,838
  • Posts: 6,601
    Well at least we've got a discussion taking place in this thread. The "Trump Error" thread seems to be taking the shape of a monologue.

    Big deal Beatles, since you were more from the start. So now you are having more or less a monologue as well, as everybody agrees so nicely. So nothing to make a point of.

  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,272
    Of course it's a monologue. :D

    People of like minds can now gather in either of these two threads. The alternative to that was one thread full of conflicts.

    Still, there's an amazing diversity of opinions to be found. Some "know" that a golden age is nigh, some "know" that we have opened the gates of hell. Some "know" that nothing will change at all and then there are some who "know" we're all being controlled by some secret cabal. I think two threads can exist.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Fake news another obvious concern.

    It s really ironic that those who spew out more fake news than anyone point fingers at everyone else. If some obscure blog creates news, it doesn t have the all-emcompassing and fatal consequences as when the mass media do the same.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,838
    Here's a nightmare to Trump, the MIC & the Greedmeisters:
  • DarthDimi wrote: »
    Of course it's a monologue. :D

    People of like minds can now gather in either of these two threads. The alternative to that was one thread full of conflicts.

    Still, there's an amazing diversity of opinions to be found. Some "know" that a golden age is nigh, some "know" that we have opened the gates of hell. Some "know" that nothing will change at all and then there are some who "know" we're all being controlled by some secret cabal. I think two threads can exist.

    I'm perfectly fine with reasonable people disagreeing reasonably. I even pop over to the other thread & make a point (reasonably I hope -- or at least, with what I intend to be subtle sarcasm.) The problem is that some people don't even seem to be listening to points that contradict their own set opinions.

    And as far as those "knowing" what's going to happen -- I think we have another thread for them as well. It's the one called "Do You Believe in Fortune Tellers?"
  • So Conway is dropping bits of crumbs, and this may be a veiled nudge before Trump publicly decides not to choose Romney. Or she is just feeding crumbs to the Trump supporters who really hate Romney but he will choose him anyway.


    Governing, making important decisions that will shape the presidency, all being made such a friendly, accessible thing with our president elect & his team on twitter and Facebook (sarcasm alert).

    It looks like we may actually have the first president to tweet throughout his administration. That is different, isn't it? His tweets have so far continued right along in his same Trumpian way: inflaming, challenging, bombastic persuading, "telling it like it is" (not) in his own personal style, as well as containing lies. Oh and saying "It's not fair!" etc. Smoke & mirrors throughout. One person on twitter had been sending out a crisp "Act presidential" tweet in response to what Trump has put out, starting on November 8th. That person finally gave up. It is apparent to all that he will not, cannot act presidential for the majority of time that he is awake. It will be an interesting administration; never a dull moment.

    "Many people are saying" there is a great parallel in the classic book, A Wrinkle in Time. ("IT" worth revisiting ...)

    And here's your light relief sort of, @chrisisall and @BeatlesSansEarmuffs
    Since Russia has its hands in our election, keep in mind:

    Ooowh jolly, a twittering president.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,272
    And as far as those "knowing" what's going to happen -- I think we have another thread for them as well. It's the one called "Do You Believe in Fortune Tellers?"

    Good one, @BeatlesSansEarmuffs. :D

  • DarthDimi wrote: »
    And as far as those "knowing" what's going to happen -- I think we have another thread for them as well. It's the one called "Do You Believe in Fortune Tellers?"

    Good one, @BeatlesSansEarmuffs. :D

    Thank you, @DarthDimi. I'm always trying. As the late lamented Mrs. SansEarmuffs used to say, "Sometimes I'm very trying."
  • edited November 2016 Posts: 3,566
    Germanlady wrote: »
    Well at least we've got a discussion taking place in this thread. The "Trump Error" thread seems to be taking the shape of a monologue.

    Big deal Beatles, since you were more from the start. So now you are having more or less a monologue as well, as everybody agrees so nicely. So nothing to make a point of.

    Well hello, GL. Didja miss me?

    As usual, I don't really understand why you say the things you say. I was never engaging in a monologue "from the start" by which I suppose you mean in the old retired "NAP" thread. I was posting links to certain songs that I thought had some bearing on the state of the discussion. Some people listened to them & liked them, others found them annoying. I suppose you were in the second camp. No monologue there.

    At the point in which I made my "monologue" statement that you are obviously referring to, one particular poster -- the founder of the "Trump Error" thread -- had just posted three very lengthy epistles there, one after another after another, BOOM-BOOM-BOOM, leaving the impression that he was talking at great length to no particular interest from anybody else. Luckily for him, the topic of watches recently seems to have elicited some interest among the rest of this forum. He seems to like the Rolex Submariner watch. As far as I'm concerned, the only Sub-Mariner worth discussing was created by Bill Everett and first appeared in Marvel Comics #1, 1939. (Yes, after a very low-distribution appearance in Motion Picture Funnies Weekly #1 and only. I know. It's of little consequence, as is so much of what we have to say here...)

    Anyway, were you looking for a new song link to get annoyed over? Sorry, fresh out. Maybe if you ask nicely another time...?
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Two threads work fine, I think. Better for everyone. Don't think we need more than two, though.

    Fake news is not really very new, but more is coming to light now, so I thought I'd post a link or two. I know what you mean, @Thunderfinger. But I was mostly thinking of the people who intentionally wrote lies, false stories, horrible things, and posted them look like real news on Facebook, and those then spread like wildfire ... done to get clicks and money. There is bias everywhere in media, yes - but I was pointing out something different. The newish kind of fakes news goes further. Unfortunately, apparently too many people actually believe much of this invented, divisive crap. And look what we ended up with.

    So ... irony? Hell, yes! "IRONY" is the hallmark of this entire election year. And all you need to do is look at our president-elect and what he is actually doing, and the words coming out of his mouth, and where we are at as a country.

  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    So here is some light relief, from the Twilight Zone realm (the irony ...) ~
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,838
    So here is some light relief, from the Twilight Zone realm (the irony ...) ~

    Cue the music all right!
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,362
This discussion has been closed.