Does anyone agree that the last 4 scores have been completely uninteresting with no personality?

24

Comments

  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    TripAces wrote: »
    No, I disagree. All four scores were tremendous. And the Thomas Newman bashing here is hilarious. Just for argument's sake:

    Newman: 12 Oscar nominations; 8 Grammy nominations; 3 Grammy Awards

    Arnold: 2 Grammy nominations; 1 Grammy Award.

    While Newman was composing music for The Shawshank Redemption, American Beauty, Finding Nemo, The Help, and Saving Mr. Banks, David Arnold was composing Hot Fuzz, Godzilla, and Stargate.

    Do we really need to have this conversation again?

    Awards are irrelevant when you're talking about somebody's suitability for a job. I like Newman's stuff (Road To Perdition, especially) but he hasn't got the right style for Bond. He attempted to overcompensate for it by utilising many of Remote Control scoring techniques which is why we got so much electronic droning and repetitive beats on drums and guitar. There's nothing wrong with that style of music - it just doesn't fit. If he had done what Joe Kraemer did with Rogue Nation and deconstructed the Bond theme and used notes from it as the base for his action cues (something he hinted at doing in "She's Mine"), then the scores would have been elevated considerably. That being said, his two efforts do have a few highlights where he seemed focused and aware of the legacy that Bond has.

    His score for The Debt is a much more superior thriller effort because it lacks any of the baggage that his Bond scores had.

  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    edited November 2016 Posts: 2,252
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    With Spectre, Thomas Newman has delivered the worst Bond score ever

    I think that's a bit harsh. I think his score works well with the film if not being entirely memorable. His music for the PTS is excellent and his instrumental of the title song works well in the film.

    He uses music from his previous Bond score, but then Barry also did this a few times.

    The problem is the instrumental happens in one scene, for about 10 seconds, probably because he was asked to.

    And the music recycling is more than half the score. Barry only reused bits and pieces (except the "007 theme", and even then it's a different arrangement each time)
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    suavejmf wrote: »
    Newman's score have personality. It's just not the right personality for Bond, in my opinion.

    Arnold's last two scores were great for the most part. Unlike his scores from the Brosnan era, it was in the quieter moments that he shined the most.

    Agreed.
    +2
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    Mallory wrote: »
    Mallory wrote: »
    Overuse the Bond theme? Is that possible?

    Yep because it gets repetitive. Barry understood this and used it only at the right moments. As did Arnold.

    Statistically speaking 97.2% of the Tomorrow Never Dies score is just the Bond theme...

    Not sure how you got that statistic, but no it isn't.

    You're absolutely right, it isn't. But Arnold relies way to much on the Bond theme, smothering it over action scenes in films to the point of almost parody.

    I think Arnold uses it just the right amount and like Barry creates new action cues and incorporates the theme song into the score.

    You can't be serious if you think he relied to much on the Bond theme in his CR and QoS scores.
  • Posts: 2,165
    Mallory wrote: »
    Mallory wrote: »
    Overuse the Bond theme? Is that possible?

    Yep because it gets repetitive. Barry understood this and used it only at the right moments. As did Arnold.

    Statistically speaking 97.2% of the Tomorrow Never Dies score is just the Bond theme...

    Not sure how you got that statistic, but no it isn't.

    You're absolutely right, it isn't. But Arnold relies way to much on the Bond theme, smothering it over action scenes in films to the point of almost parody.

    I think Arnold uses it just the right amount and like Barry creates new action cues and incorporates the theme song into the score.

    You can't be serious if you think he relied to much on the Bond theme in his CR and QoS scores.

    I actually think QoS is Arnold's best Bond score, by a long long long way, somewhat ironically given its the least Bondian score he has composed.

    Certainly his Brosnan era scores relied way to much on the Bond theme and awful electronica and I don't care too much for his CR score either. As a more 'romantically leaning' film, Newman could have perhaps done CR better.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I was watching episode 1 of Season 6 of GoT yesterday. I just don't understand why EON don't sign Ramin Djawadi for composer duties. This guy can do Bond justice in his sleep.
  • edited November 2016 Posts: 2,165
    bondjames wrote: »
    I was watching episode 1 of Season 6 of GoT yesterday. I just don't understand why EON don't sign Ramin Djawadi for composer duties. This guy can do Bond justice in his sleep.

    As much as I like Newman's scores, if he isn't back for more, Michael Giacchino could do a killer Bond score.

    His work with Star Trek proves he can work with existing themes/sounds to great effect. I look forward to hearing his Rogue One score.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Mallory wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I was watching episode 1 of Season 6 of GoT yesterday. I just don't understand why EON don't sign Ramin Djawadi for composer duties. This guy can do Bond justice in his sleep.

    As much as I like Newman's scores, if he isn't back for more, Michael Giacchino could do a killer Bond score.
    I'm ok with Giacchino, Djawadi, Alexandre Desplat or Henry Jackman.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    Mallory wrote: »
    Mallory wrote: »
    Mallory wrote: »
    Overuse the Bond theme? Is that possible?

    Yep because it gets repetitive. Barry understood this and used it only at the right moments. As did Arnold.

    Statistically speaking 97.2% of the Tomorrow Never Dies score is just the Bond theme...

    Not sure how you got that statistic, but no it isn't.

    You're absolutely right, it isn't. But Arnold relies way to much on the Bond theme, smothering it over action scenes in films to the point of almost parody.

    I think Arnold uses it just the right amount and like Barry creates new action cues and incorporates the theme song into the score.

    You can't be serious if you think he relied to much on the Bond theme in his CR and QoS scores.

    I actually think QoS is Arnold's best Bond score, by a long long long way, somewhat ironically given its the least Bondian score he has composed.

    Certainly his Brosnan era scores relied way to much on the Bond theme and awful electronica and I don't care too much for his CR score either. As a more 'romantically leaning' film, Newman could have perhaps done CR better.

    I love all of Arnold's Bond scores. It's just a shame he never got to do GE as well.
  • Posts: 4,325
    Joe Kraemer for me.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2016 Posts: 23,883
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    Joe Kraemer for me.
    He'd be an excellent choice as well. He did an outstanding job on MI-RN and showed that he really gets how to incorporate a classic riff in inventive & unpredictable ways.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,296
    Arnold only got better on the job. QoS was his best, and elevated the film.

    Newman got worse.
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    Mallory wrote: »
    Mallory wrote: »
    Mallory wrote: »
    Overuse the Bond theme? Is that possible?

    Yep because it gets repetitive. Barry understood this and used it only at the right moments. As did Arnold.

    Statistically speaking 97.2% of the Tomorrow Never Dies score is just the Bond theme...

    Not sure how you got that statistic, but no it isn't.

    You're absolutely right, it isn't. But Arnold relies way to much on the Bond theme, smothering it over action scenes in films to the point of almost parody.

    I think Arnold uses it just the right amount and like Barry creates new action cues and incorporates the theme song into the score.

    You can't be serious if you think he relied to much on the Bond theme in his CR and QoS scores.

    I actually think QoS is Arnold's best Bond score, by a long long long way, somewhat ironically given its the least Bondian score he has composed.

    Certainly his Brosnan era scores relied way to much on the Bond theme and awful electronica and I don't care too much for his CR score either. As a more 'romantically leaning' film, Newman could have perhaps done CR better.

    I think it's very Bondian. Listen to the PTS car chase score, so many Bondian cues there without being in your face
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    Posts: 2,138
    Arnolds CR Score was epic Bond. QOS had some great elements but far dethatched from classic Bond. Skyfall was no ordinary Bond movie and was a very sombre film, I think Newman reflected it well with sombre brass elements.
  • Posts: 12,526
    Would disagree as I absolutely love the CR score. I would certainly say it is David Arnold's best!
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,585
    It's all great music. Put a playlist together, just of these:

    From CR: Vesper's theme; CCTV; Dinner Jackets; Solange
    From QoS: Bond in Haiti; Camille's Theme, and, of course, Night at the Opera
    From SF: Brave New World; Komodo Dragon; Severine; The Chimera; Someone Usually Dies
    From SP: Madeleine's Theme; L'Americain; Secret Room; Donna Lucia

    That's all just great music.
  • GumboldGumbold Atlantis
    Posts: 118
    @TripAces

    I absolutely hate 'From SF: Brave New World; Komodo Dragon; Severine; The Chimera; Someone Usually Dies'
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Gumbold wrote: »
    @TripAces

    I absolutely hate 'From SF: Brave New World; Komodo Dragon; Severine; The Chimera; Someone Usually Dies'
    I think Brave New World, Severine, The Chimera & Someone Usually Dies are far better than anything Arnold gave us in TWINE & DAD personally. Far better.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    bondjames wrote: »
    Gumbold wrote: »
    @TripAces

    I absolutely hate 'From SF: Brave New World; Komodo Dragon; Severine; The Chimera; Someone Usually Dies'
    I think Brave New World, Severine, The Chimera & Someone Usually Dies are far better than anything Arnold gave us in TWINE & DAD personally. Far better.

    Better than ice inc?
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2016 Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    Gumbold wrote: »
    @TripAces

    I absolutely hate 'From SF: Brave New World; Komodo Dragon; Severine; The Chimera; Someone Usually Dies'
    I think Brave New World, Severine, The Chimera & Someone Usually Dies are far better than anything Arnold gave us in TWINE & DAD personally. Far better.

    Better than ice inc?
    A perfect example of the kind of ear drum damaging noisy rubbish that I find unforgiveable. That's why, despite his dramatic improvement in CR & QoS, I don't want to see him anywhere near a Bond film again. Horrid imho.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I like them all.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Gumbold wrote: »
    TripAces wrote: »
    No, I disagree. All four scores were tremendous. And the Thomas Newman bashing here is hilarious. Just for argument's sake:

    Newman: 12 Oscar nominations; 8 Grammy nominations; 3 Grammy Awards

    Arnold: 2 Grammy nominations; 1 Grammy Award.

    While Newman was composing music for The Shawshank Redemption, American Beauty, Finding Nemo, The Help, and Saving Mr. Banks, David Arnold was composing Hot Fuzz, Godzilla, and Stargate.

    Do we really need to have this conversation again?
    Ok so Thomas Newman got awards for other scores, and that makes his bond scores not completely life-less and boring? Haha

    The awards argument doesn't work.
    Newman failed as Bond film composer.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    I love ice inc. B-)
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,585
    Gumbold wrote: »
    TripAces wrote: »
    No, I disagree. All four scores were tremendous. And the Thomas Newman bashing here is hilarious. Just for argument's sake:

    Newman: 12 Oscar nominations; 8 Grammy nominations; 3 Grammy Awards

    Arnold: 2 Grammy nominations; 1 Grammy Award.

    While Newman was composing music for The Shawshank Redemption, American Beauty, Finding Nemo, The Help, and Saving Mr. Banks, David Arnold was composing Hot Fuzz, Godzilla, and Stargate.

    Do we really need to have this conversation again?
    Ok so Thomas Newman got awards for other scores, and that makes his bond scores not completely life-less and boring? Haha

    The awards argument doesn't work.
    Newman failed as Bond film composer.

    Well, it's all a mattter of taste. But Newman does have a Grammy for SF. So there must have been a lot of people in the industry who thought his score for SF was pretty damn good. And it was.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    edited November 2016 Posts: 3,996
    TripAces wrote: »
    Gumbold wrote: »
    TripAces wrote: »
    No, I disagree. All four scores were tremendous. And the Thomas Newman bashing here is hilarious. Just for argument's sake:

    Newman: 12 Oscar nominations; 8 Grammy nominations; 3 Grammy Awards

    Arnold: 2 Grammy nominations; 1 Grammy Award.

    While Newman was composing music for The Shawshank Redemption, American Beauty, Finding Nemo, The Help, and Saving Mr. Banks, David Arnold was composing Hot Fuzz, Godzilla, and Stargate.

    Do we really need to have this conversation again?
    Ok so Thomas Newman got awards for other scores, and that makes his bond scores not completely life-less and boring? Haha

    The awards argument doesn't work.
    Newman failed as Bond film composer.

    Well, it's all a mattter of taste. But Newman does have a Grammy for SF. So there must have been a lot of people in the industry who thought his score for SF was pretty damn good. And it was.

    It certainly worked for the film and even divorced from the film it's a pretty good listen.

    Too many nitpickers on here who just want the Bond theme played ad nauseum and get their panties in a bunch when something is done differently.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,118
    TripAces wrote: »
    Gumbold wrote: »
    TripAces wrote: »
    No, I disagree. All four scores were tremendous. And the Thomas Newman bashing here is hilarious. Just for argument's sake:

    Newman: 12 Oscar nominations; 8 Grammy nominations; 3 Grammy Awards

    Arnold: 2 Grammy nominations; 1 Grammy Award.

    While Newman was composing music for The Shawshank Redemption, American Beauty, Finding Nemo, The Help, and Saving Mr. Banks, David Arnold was composing Hot Fuzz, Godzilla, and Stargate.

    Do we really need to have this conversation again?
    Ok so Thomas Newman got awards for other scores, and that makes his bond scores not completely life-less and boring? Haha

    The awards argument doesn't work.
    Newman failed as Bond film composer.

    Well, it's all a mattter of taste. But Newman does have a Grammy for SF. So there must have been a lot of people in the industry who thought his score for SF was pretty damn good. And it was.

    Well Rocky won over Taxi Driver. A lot of people must have liked it better. It wasn't.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    TripAces wrote: »
    Gumbold wrote: »
    TripAces wrote: »
    No, I disagree. All four scores were tremendous. And the Thomas Newman bashing here is hilarious. Just for argument's sake:

    Newman: 12 Oscar nominations; 8 Grammy nominations; 3 Grammy Awards

    Arnold: 2 Grammy nominations; 1 Grammy Award.

    While Newman was composing music for The Shawshank Redemption, American Beauty, Finding Nemo, The Help, and Saving Mr. Banks, David Arnold was composing Hot Fuzz, Godzilla, and Stargate.

    Do we really need to have this conversation again?
    Ok so Thomas Newman got awards for other scores, and that makes his bond scores not completely life-less and boring? Haha

    The awards argument doesn't work.
    Newman failed as Bond film composer.

    Well, it's all a mattter of taste. But Newman does have a Grammy for SF. So there must have been a lot of people in the industry who thought his score for SF was pretty damn good. And it was.

    After that logic you must love WOTW by Sam Smith or at least it must be pretty damn good. (And it was). It won about every possible awards there is and he was a multiple Grammy winner before becoming a Bond theme artist.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,585
    TripAces wrote: »
    Gumbold wrote: »
    TripAces wrote: »
    No, I disagree. All four scores were tremendous. And the Thomas Newman bashing here is hilarious. Just for argument's sake:

    Newman: 12 Oscar nominations; 8 Grammy nominations; 3 Grammy Awards

    Arnold: 2 Grammy nominations; 1 Grammy Award.

    While Newman was composing music for The Shawshank Redemption, American Beauty, Finding Nemo, The Help, and Saving Mr. Banks, David Arnold was composing Hot Fuzz, Godzilla, and Stargate.

    Do we really need to have this conversation again?
    Ok so Thomas Newman got awards for other scores, and that makes his bond scores not completely life-less and boring? Haha

    The awards argument doesn't work.
    Newman failed as Bond film composer.

    Well, it's all a mattter of taste. But Newman does have a Grammy for SF. So there must have been a lot of people in the industry who thought his score for SF was pretty damn good. And it was.

    After that logic you must love WOTW by Sam Smith or at least it must be pretty damn good. (And it was). It won about every possible awards there is and he was a multiple Grammy winner before becoming a Bond theme artist.

    I did like it. I didn't think it deserved the Oscar over "Worth It" by The Weeknd. But it was a good song.


    GoldenGun wrote: »
    TripAces wrote: »
    Gumbold wrote: »
    TripAces wrote: »
    No, I disagree. All four scores were tremendous. And the Thomas Newman bashing here is hilarious. Just for argument's sake:

    Newman: 12 Oscar nominations; 8 Grammy nominations; 3 Grammy Awards

    Arnold: 2 Grammy nominations; 1 Grammy Award.

    While Newman was composing music for The Shawshank Redemption, American Beauty, Finding Nemo, The Help, and Saving Mr. Banks, David Arnold was composing Hot Fuzz, Godzilla, and Stargate.

    Do we really need to have this conversation again?
    Ok so Thomas Newman got awards for other scores, and that makes his bond scores not completely life-less and boring? Haha

    The awards argument doesn't work.
    Newman failed as Bond film composer.

    Well, it's all a mattter of taste. But Newman does have a Grammy for SF. So there must have been a lot of people in the industry who thought his score for SF was pretty damn good. And it was.

    Well Rocky won over Taxi Driver. A lot of people must have liked it better. It wasn't.

    You're making an apples/oranges comparison. I am not making a one-over-the-other argument. I am merely saying that Newman's work has merit, and if one has a distaste for his work on SF and/or SP, they're in the minority. You're entitled to your tastes, for sure, but know that it is not one shared by most.

    I liked Rocky and Taxi Driver equally.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    @TripAces

    Glad you like WOTW, don't know why this is so hated in this forum.
    As for The Weeknd, yes absolutely, he should have gotten the Oscar. But then Pharrell should have gotten it too for Happy, most definitely, a year ago.

    Awards are mostly politics and strategy games anyway.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    TripAces wrote: »
    TripAces wrote: »
    Gumbold wrote: »
    TripAces wrote: »
    No, I disagree. All four scores were tremendous. And the Thomas Newman bashing here is hilarious. Just for argument's sake:

    Newman: 12 Oscar nominations; 8 Grammy nominations; 3 Grammy Awards

    Arnold: 2 Grammy nominations; 1 Grammy Award.

    While Newman was composing music for The Shawshank Redemption, American Beauty, Finding Nemo, The Help, and Saving Mr. Banks, David Arnold was composing Hot Fuzz, Godzilla, and Stargate.

    Do we really need to have this conversation again?
    Ok so Thomas Newman got awards for other scores, and that makes his bond scores not completely life-less and boring? Haha

    The awards argument doesn't work.
    Newman failed as Bond film composer.

    Well, it's all a mattter of taste. But Newman does have a Grammy for SF. So there must have been a lot of people in the industry who thought his score for SF was pretty damn good. And it was.

    After that logic you must love WOTW by Sam Smith or at least it must be pretty damn good. (And it was). It won about every possible awards there is and he was a multiple Grammy winner before becoming a Bond theme artist.

    I did like it. I didn't think it deserved the Oscar over "Worth It" by The Weeknd. But it was a good song.


    GoldenGun wrote: »
    TripAces wrote: »
    Gumbold wrote: »
    TripAces wrote: »
    No, I disagree. All four scores were tremendous. And the Thomas Newman bashing here is hilarious. Just for argument's sake:

    Newman: 12 Oscar nominations; 8 Grammy nominations; 3 Grammy Awards

    Arnold: 2 Grammy nominations; 1 Grammy Award.

    While Newman was composing music for The Shawshank Redemption, American Beauty, Finding Nemo, The Help, and Saving Mr. Banks, David Arnold was composing Hot Fuzz, Godzilla, and Stargate.

    Do we really need to have this conversation again?
    Ok so Thomas Newman got awards for other scores, and that makes his bond scores not completely life-less and boring? Haha

    The awards argument doesn't work.
    Newman failed as Bond film composer.

    Well, it's all a mattter of taste. But Newman does have a Grammy for SF. So there must have been a lot of people in the industry who thought his score for SF was pretty damn good. And it was.

    Well Rocky won over Taxi Driver. A lot of people must have liked it better. It wasn't.

    You're making an apples/oranges comparison. I am not making a one-over-the-other argument. I am merely saying that Newman's work has merit, and if one has a distaste for his work on SF and/or SP, they're in the minority. You're entitled to your tastes, for sure, but know that it is not one shared by most.

    I liked Rocky and Taxi Driver equally.

    I would strongly disagree with that one, even as someone who enjoyed bits of Newman's scores. I'd say at best for Newman it's a 50/50 split and at worst there's a fraction more who didn't like his stuff than did. It's definitely not a minority as you say.
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