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What does "Skyfall" mean in British culture?

24

Comments

  • calfexcalfex
    Posts: 42
    In my opinion, skyfall means a hectic trouble/disaster. I can imply this from the plot I read. The plot is about the serious threat in MI6-HQ which must be handled fast and carefully, then also Bond will be tested about his loyalty to MI-6 when the HQ itself is being threatened and Bond is having a rendezvous with his past. A quite hectic problem/disaster that fits the meaning of SKYFALL
  • UsualManUsualMan
    Posts: 94
    Funny - but You really remembered me of Asterix meaning(thank You). It was not first impression - cause I really didn't read Asterix in English in my whole life(but for e.g. had read experiment in Roman Latina :-) ), and yes I think this is the most possible version.

    Probably they wanted some hard-action, god creation symbolism like shower, lighting, and really basic homo neandertalis nearby emotions for it.

    So probably there won't be too much action(compared to previous film, cause the title of QOS was on opposite side of it), maybe more Bond-related traditions, and there would be some new items for new fans (e.g. Craig China generation).

    Using Scottish castle, South Africa locations would make it more traditional Bond-sire-knight-of-majesty related film. With Craig farewell with Africa(stop:-)..Bond) end his not so good(in my non neutral opinion), adventure.

  • UsualManUsualMan
    edited November 2011 Posts: 94
    Sorry for second comment, but I don't known if everyone there wants to read my long comments, and this is an answer to other reply than first.
    "fiat justita ruat caelum" - I don't think that this is fully suitable for this film. Why? Two arguments against : the end of "revenge" and White motive announced by MGM, and secondly it is good ending/start, but for QoS/Casino2006.

    Hmm and maybe this will not be an atomic threat as a main argument. Basically I believe that in this or next film will be something related to Dr. No. or atomic war threat but rather in "lighter way". What it may mean? Rather something similar to change from gold women "dress";-) to oil in QoS. With main villain fighting for water contracts not well-known oil reserves.

    Maybe Bond will have a fight, and would in beginning dismantle an nuclear bomb or avoid/intercept selling it to terrorists. Or even some Iran plot, but rather in unusual way(remember the comment about Haiti situation in QoS).

    Probably rather there would be some other threats to Bond - if they chosen South Africa I will bet that today Africa problems - poor people, not enough medicines and mostly expanding China interests - now there are times, when the cheap labour forces means for us maybe China, but they get it even cheaper in Africa. Probably it look strange, but the biggest investor and "money colonisation" are doing people who decade/two ago were making shoes for us.

    The most percent of probability would rather get also Skyfall . as an symbolism of global economy crisis , which from 2008(last Bond movie) still is hitting even City.

  • shadowonthesunshadowonthesun Banned
    Posts: 1,894
    "fiat justita ruat caelum" - I don't think that this is fully suitable for this film. Why? Two arguments against : the end of "revenge" and White motive announced by MGM, and secondly it is good ending/start, but for QoS/Casino2006.
    "Fiat justita ruat caelum" has nothing to do with revenge. It has everything to do with justice.
  • UsualManUsualMan
    Posts: 94
    How to say what I had in mind. In Roman culture and even medieval justice was something equal to revenge. E.g. Hannibal law. Stealing is still "justiced" by an hand cutting in some Arabian countries, and Europe needed 2-3 centuries to change the way of "justice". Even the Libyan "most wanted" was lynched by crowd, and what to say(of course true) about the bad rule of him, he did many things to transform the minds, which how we see didn't succeed.

    Of course You may be right, and I wrong - who known what is in scenario :-), and they minds.
  • shadowonthesunshadowonthesun Banned
    Posts: 1,894
    Just because it is Latin, that does not mean it refers to Ancient Rome. "Fiat justita ruat caelum" is a legal term that is used in today's day and age. It means "justice must be done, even if it means the heavens (skies) fall" - that justice must be done, whatever the consequences of that justice being meted out.
  • UsualManUsualMan
    Posts: 94
    Sorry - I am not the lawyer, and don't known how they treat nowadays this words. But if I want to translate it, to get the original meaning(not word to word) of it, if it was really used in Ancient Rome - I will say something like that: "The revenge of victim must be achieved, even everyone maybe injured by consequences of it, and cost of revenge being greater than victim injury ".

    And - for me - it looks like anthem of first and second Bond - He is the Victim, He fights with the Organisation, don't matter about cost(I don't remember, but probably QoS is first Bond, where Bond kills(ok only throws him from the roof) not-villain Mi6 agent. Even lost his friend, and lover, only for get revenge for death of bride-to-be.

    The QoS ends with head of Mi6 asking him, if he get what he wanted - something like if the Justice was done. And - how to look about it - "Fiat justita ruat caelum" - is at least something like bridge between title of next, and ending of last.

    But it maybe something. like Your proposition - would be great to ask for e.g. creators of Bond, 'hey, what mean for You "Fiat justita ruat caelum"' and see/hear their reaction :-).
  • shadowonthesunshadowonthesun Banned
    Posts: 1,894
    if it was really used in Ancient Rome - I will say something like that: "The revenge of victim must be achieved, even everyone maybe injured by consequences of it, and cost of revenge being greater than victim injury ".
    And what does that have to do with anything? The modern definition - the one that matters - of "fiat justita ruat caelum" means justice, not revenge.
  • CASINOROYALECASINOROYALE Somewhere hot
    Posts: 1,003
    Skyfall sounds like a code word to me. Operation Skyfall or something along the lines of that..Or it could be a company name or villain name? Who knows!
  • danslittlefingerdanslittlefinger
    Posts: 886
    I read it was a codename for some operation after 9/11. It was mentioned in a Bond article somewhere. No idea if there is a connection to that.
  • UsualManUsualMan
    Posts: 94
    "The modern definition - the one that matters " hmm it depends. If for e.g. scenario writer for Bond had latina language at school, and he/she isn't a lawyer it sounds probably for him, like for me.

    But ok, it's time to end this discussion, because I don't have other arguments against or approving Your sense of it. Would be really great if somebody will ask producers about it.

    @danslittlefinger

    Hmm interesting. But look at this in other way - why it should be used? Most of agency plays with democracy(and law, sadly sometimes), and terrorists anti-actions are/will be still unpublished in 10-20 years at least. Maybe some clues about Osama killing(ok, let's say straight - murdering without trial, where judge words would be better to help victims and showing law still working) would be released, because of American politics cutting coupons of victory in long time period.

    I think it is rather related with this book (from 1987!) showing http://books.google.com/books?id=ZK2gz_HWaf4C&pg=PA315&dq=operation+skyfall+9/11&hl=en&ei=lwfPTqu7IJGbtgak8IHcDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

    some operation about it, with fiction plot little similar to 9/11.

    Some terrorist plane related plot was used in Casino Royale, so only thing to guess is probably Osama Bin Laden hunt, and Bond part of it.
  • shadowonthesunshadowonthesun Banned
    edited November 2011 Posts: 1,894
    danslittlefinger wrote:
    I read it was a codename for some operation after 9/11. It was mentioned in a Bond article somewhere. No idea if there is a connection to that.
    It was an FBI terror alert. When the FBI felt that they had credible intelligence that an attack was planned, they would post a warning on their website (as well as sending it out to law enforcement). The URLs were usually listed by a numberical code (ie fbi.com/alerts/1234.htm) but there was one episode where an alert was posted under a name, rather than a number, and that name was 'skyfall' (ie fbi.com/alerts/skyfall.htm). It was taken down within half an hour and either reposted with a numerical code, or taken offline completely. It had never happened before, and it has never happened since. No explanation for it has ever been given.

    However, I think that the FBI 'skyfall' URL episode is just a coincidence - probably someone posting it under the case file name instead of the number - and has nothing to do with the film. Explaining the FBI incident in film would be difficult. If they're related, it will probably go unmentioned.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,124
    I agree with people mentioning this idea of ominous catastrophy. I really love the title. There are many elements of the movie I am skeptical about (another field agent as a Bond girl, a young Q), but Skyfall is a really good title.
  • darren_blacksmithdarren_blacksmith
    edited January 2012 Posts: 678
    Putting together what we actually know:

    ShadowOnTheSun's great piece of detective work, in finding '"justice must be done, even if it means the sky falls".

    The official synopsis of: James Bond's loyalty to M is challenged over secrets from her past. When MI6 is attacked, it falls to Bond to seek out and eliminate the threat regardless of the cost to himself.

    (a story this week on mi6-HQ.com suggested that this attack on MI6 forms the beginning of the film)

    Ralph Fiennes' character is a government agent. He has also described the role as interesting, suggesting it has some depth/complexity to it. Also, in my humble opinion, you don't hire Ralph Fiennes for a big film of this nature and have him play a good guy. Its likely that he'll either be a morally ambiguous character, or some kind of agent turned enemy, like Alex Trevelyn in Goldeneye. Equally, you don't hire Ralph Fiennes for a role where he is just some relatively minor character whose role in the film is just to give some exposition: his character is likely to be pivotal to the plot.

    The film has been described as a classic bond story. Its also been compared to Goldfinger.

    Whilst its normal for cast/crew to speak positively about a film whilst they are making it, it does seem that the script is particularly strong.

    The story has one big idea/hook and its an original story.

    Thanks to PanchitoPistoles, and others, who've been piecing together the scene numbers from the twitter feed clapper-board photos, we know the scenes shot so far in London are scattered throughout the film:

    Scene 35: funeral in London.
    Scene 45: dirty bathroom, probably in London.
    Scene 53: underground office, probably still in London.
    Scene 59: bar, probably in Shanghai.
    Scene 64: bar/night club in Shanghai.
    Scene 120: underground station in London.
    Scene 134: dark alley, probably in London.
    Scene 172: rooftop, probably in London.

    Daniel Craig said the title has a geographic significance, and I believe Barbara Brocoli said in the initial press conference that it has some 'emotional context'.

    Lastly, there was the rumor that the story was about "a downed intel satellite and the scrambling of various government agencies to retrieve it."


    My speculation (building on the above):

    I'm no expert, but the 'downed intel satellite' rumor - whilst sounding dramatic - doesn't ring true to me: the whole point of satellites is that the information they gather is beamed down to a location on the ground (rather than stored on the satellite itself, for later retrieval. Although the satellite might store some record of the information?). Equally, I would think that most satellites would simply burn-up if they were 'downed'. Nevertheless, the Bond films do like to weave in themes from current geo-political events, and a few years ago it was rumoured that an American weather satellite had been 'hacked', possibly by the Chinese. So I wouldn't totally discount this rumour, particularly as it would fit so neatly with the film's title.

    My guess is that the backdrop of the plot will have something to do with the current world economic crisis, which, remember, began around 2008 when the writers would have first been working on it. Given that its been compared to Goldfinger, it may be that the 'plot' of the villan has some financial theme (again, a bit like Alex Trevelyn in Goldeneye).

    I would guess that its likely there is some conflict between different government agencies/departments (a lot of the filming so far has been around whitehall in London, where a lot of government buildings are). Bond begins by investigating who has attacked a number of MI6 agents, and why, and this leads him to chase/track Javier Bardem's character through the London Underground. The motive for the killing of the MI6 agents will probably either be revenge, to stop them enacting some mission, or to silence them as they have knowledge which could threaten someone (perhaps Ralph Fiennes' character?). The story also involves China, but its interesting that of the cast announced so far, there are no ethically chinese actors. We also know that there is likely some kind of chase sequence involving motorbikes jumping onto train roofs, on a stretch of train track near a waterfall. Waterfalls are often given names with the word 'fall' or 'falls' in them (e.g. Niagara Falls, Victoria falls). Is it a stretch of the imagination to suggest that perhaps this is the 'geographical' meaning of SkyFall that Craig mentioned? (there is also a Scottish island called Skye, hmm). (I know they are no longer filming in Scotland, but they may be filming somewhere else to double for a Scottish location).

    Lastly, it seems likely that Bond will be faced with some test of loyalty that might mean he needs to challenge/bring down 'M'. It wouldn't surprise me if this film marked the end of Judy Dench's tenure as M, given her current age. Also, as she's been such a popular success in the role (or at least she's pleased the producers), it wouldn't surprise me if they let her go out with 'a bang' (perhaps killed?). If Bond had to 'bring down' M or his investigations resulting in bringing down a whole department of MI6, perhaps this is also the 'Skyfall' that the title refers too.

    Thoughts?
  • Commander_SkyfallCommander_Skyfall
    edited January 2012 Posts: 371
    I think there may be some merit in @shadowonthesun's well found bit of Latin, Skyfall is also an often used to term to describe exactly that, space debris falling from the sky, particularly where satellites are concerned, 'Skyfall' being the point at which the pieces of debris break through Earth's atmosphere and crash land, so it does pretty much tie in with the downed satellite story.
  • darren_blacksmithdarren_blacksmith
    Posts: 678
    Commander_Skyfall wrote:
    I think there may be some merit in @shadowonthesun's well found bit of Latin, Skyfall is also an often used to term to describe exactly that, space debris falling from the sky, particularly where satellites are concerned, 'Skyfall' being the point at which the pieces of debris break through Earth's atmosphere and crash land, so it does pretty much tie in with the downed satellite story.

    I really hope so, as the idea does sound like it has a lot of dramatic potential. On second thoughts, this could be the 'geographic' reference that Daniel Craig referred to.

  • ggl007ggl007 www.archivo007.com Spain, España
    Posts: 2,541
    Something new.

    Sony has said that the title in Brazil will be 007 Operation Skyfall... That´s quite interesting...
  • abseilingninjaabseilingninja
    Posts: 1
    ‎"The sky is falling" - A phrase that has passed into the English Language as a common idiom indicating a hysterical or mistaken belief that disaster is imminent.

    There are several Western versions of the story from which this saying orriginates. The best-known concerns a chick that believes the sky is falling when an acorn falls on its head. The chick decides to tell the King and on its journey meets other animals which join it in the quest. After this point, there are many endings. In the most familiar, a fox invites them to its lair and there eats them all. Alternatively, the last one, usually Cocky Lockey, survives long enough to warn the chick, who escapes. In others all are rescued and finally speak to the King.

    Call me old fashoned but sounds like a bond film!!!!!

    Fox - Blofeld (often described by MI6 as a fox - Renard anyone)
    King - M
    Chick - Bond (uncovers a "moonraker style plot to destroy the world, is not believed and cast out)
    Other animals join the quest - The usual allies
    Fox invites them to his lair - Hollow volcano, Swiss mountain top, underwater palace etc... final climactic battle with abseiling female ninjas takes place.
    Cocky Locky - The third bond girl (not the one that dies or the bad one) warns bond who escapes... all are rescued and finally speak to the king (M)

    Tell me I'm right.... Skyfall... Bond 23 2012
  • X3MSonicXX3MSonicX https://www.behance.net/gallery/86760163/Fa-Posteres-de-007-No-Time-To-Die
    Posts: 2,635
    ggl007 wrote:
    Something new.

    Sony has said that the title in Brazil will be 007 Operation Skyfall... That´s quite interesting...

    I don't believe that Sony will put that ridiculous name on the Brazilian title. dammit, do Sony hates Brazil? '-'

    It should be ONLY '007: Skyfall'.

    @ggl007, nothing wrong, but are you brazilian? or u're just saying that? lol
  • AgentJamesBond007AgentJamesBond007 Vesper’s grave
    Posts: 2,632
    X3MSonicX wrote:
    ggl007 wrote:
    Something new.

    Sony has said that the title in Brazil will be 007 Operation Skyfall... That´s quite interesting...

    I don't believe that Sony will put that ridiculous name on the Brazilian title. dammit, do Sony hates Brazil? '-'

    It should be ONLY '007: Skyfall'.

    @ggl007, nothing wrong, but are you brazilian? or u're just saying that? lol

    Actually, I think James Bond Brazil reported it. "007 – Operação Skyfall"
  • X3MSonicXX3MSonicX https://www.behance.net/gallery/86760163/Fa-Posteres-de-007-No-Time-To-Die
    edited February 2012 Posts: 2,635
    AgentJamesBond007 wrote:
    X3MSonicX wrote:
    ggl007 wrote:
    Something new.

    Sony has said that the title in Brazil will be 007 Operation Skyfall... That´s quite interesting...

    I don't believe that Sony will put that ridiculous name on the Brazilian title. dammit, do Sony hates Brazil? '-'

    It should be ONLY '007: Skyfall'.

    @ggl007, nothing wrong, but are you brazilian? or u're just saying that? lol

    Actually, I think James Bond Brazil reported it. "007 – Operação Skyfall"

    Yep, that is the name, my friend. I just said it at english so u guys can understand a little better ;D
    my thought stills up, tho.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    edited February 2012 Posts: 14,585
    ggl007 wrote:
    Something new.

    Sony has said that the title in Brazil will be 007 Operation Skyfall... That´s quite interesting...

    I hope so, for then it makes the cover of my 'What if Fleming wrote Skyfall?' novel accurate :D

    http://i1041.photobucket.com/albums/b420/AndruG/007/SkyfallIanFlemingNovel1.png
  • darren_blacksmithdarren_blacksmith
    Posts: 678
    QBranch wrote:
    ggl007 wrote:
    Something new.

    Sony has said that the title in Brazil will be 007 Operation Skyfall... That´s quite interesting...

    I hope so, for then it makes the cover of my 'What if Fleming wrote Skyfall?' novel accurate :D

    http://i1041.photobucket.com/albums/b420/AndruG/007/SkyfallIanFlemingNovel1.png

    Nice graphic!

    Incidentally, I really do hope we get a novelisation of Skyfall. Anyone think we will?
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,585
    Thanks! I would think we will get a novel, what with Skyfall, um, falling (no pun intended!) on an important year and all.
  • ggl007ggl007 www.archivo007.com Spain, España
    Posts: 2,541
    X3MSonicX wrote:
    ggl007 wrote:
    Something new.

    Sony has said that the title in Brazil will be 007 Operation Skyfall... That´s quite interesting...

    I don't believe that Sony will put that ridiculous name on the Brazilian title. dammit, do Sony hates Brazil? '-'

    It should be ONLY '007: Skyfall'.

    @ggl007, nothing wrong, but are you brazilian? or u're just saying that? lol

    I´m Spanish, but Twitter is quite "international" ;)

    Now, you´ll believe: http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/2635/possible-spoilers-brazilian-skyfall-title-revealed#Item_24

    Anyway, GF and OP also get and "Operation" in the Portuguese title, so I don´t know if we can obtain something of that translation...
  • Monsieur_AubergineMonsieur_Aubergine Top of the Eiffel Tower with a fly in my soup!
    Posts: 642
    What if the 'SkyFall' term is used as per previous comments around the take down of the establishment. Filming took place around Buckingham palace the other day, what if SkyFall relates to the royal family (maybe this is the hook so talked about). How better to acknowledge Bonds 50th anniversary than a story that fits nicely with her majesty's diamond jubilee year and shows that he really is On her majesty's secret service as Bond battles those intent on bringing down Britain starting with mi6 and leading straight to the top!? thoughts...
  • 0iker00iker0
    Posts: 501
    @ggl007
    In Spain it will be the same, I looked it up when we knew the official English title. (I'm spanish too)
  • JWESTBROOKJWESTBROOK
    Posts: 5,745
    Well this is interesting. While perusing Twitter, someone posted #skyfall with the following link:

    http://m.zdnet.com.au/stolen-nasa-pc-held-space-station-control-codes-339332801.htm

    Its an article with a REAL story on
    a stolen PC from NASA containing launch codes, and the possible consequences.

    Perhaps Bardem gets his hands on something like this? And Bond's investigation is code named SKYFALL
  • WVPoefWVPoef
    Posts: 147
    Maybe the villain is using some sort of device to catapult meteorites to earth and Bond need to stop Him/it from happening before the sky fall... That's why I go with it being an operation like TB a mission to stop the sky falling.
  • JWESTBROOKJWESTBROOK
    Posts: 5,745
    WVPoef wrote:
    Maybe the villain is using some sort of device to catapult meteorites to earth and Bond need to stop Him/it from happening before the sky fall... That's why I go with it being an operation like TB a mission to stop the sky falling.

    How on Earth would any human be able to that?
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