SPECTRE: So who's going to play Ernst?

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  • Posts: 15,106
    Emilio wrote: »
    I agree, we also know that B24 and B25 will be connected, so just a hint in the first and main villain in the second.
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Hinds would work very well as not only is he very close physically to the TB Blofeld, but like Blofeld he is mixed blood. But he may be getting old now. He is another one I would have been enthusiastic about if he'd been cast say ten years ago.

    Personally, I think the main villain from Bond 24 -if it is either Chiwetel Ejiofor or Mark Strong- will not play Blofeld. Just like it was done in FRWL and TB. In TB Largo was the main Bond villain, but Blofeld was pulling the strings behind every ambitious plan. If they introduce Blofeld it will be done slowly and carefully, perhaps with only one faceless cameo in one of the very last scenes of the movie.

    Do we know for sure Bond 24 and 25 will be connected?
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Emilio wrote: »
    I agree, we also know that B24 and B25 will be connected, so just a hint in the first and main villain in the second.
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Hinds would work very well as not only is he very close physically to the TB Blofeld, but like Blofeld he is mixed blood. But he may be getting old now. He is another one I would have been enthusiastic about if he'd been cast say ten years ago.

    Personally, I think the main villain from Bond 24 -if it is either Chiwetel Ejiofor or Mark Strong- will not play Blofeld. Just like it was done in FRWL and TB. In TB Largo was the main Bond villain, but Blofeld was pulling the strings behind every ambitious plan. If they introduce Blofeld it will be done slowly and carefully, perhaps with only one faceless cameo in one of the very last scenes of the movie.

    Do we know for sure Bond 24 and 25 will be connected?

    I thought this had been confirmed as a 'no'.
  • Posts: 12,526
    RC7 wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Emilio wrote: »
    I agree, we also know that B24 and B25 will be connected, so just a hint in the first and main villain in the second.
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Hinds would work very well as not only is he very close physically to the TB Blofeld, but like Blofeld he is mixed blood. But he may be getting old now. He is another one I would have been enthusiastic about if he'd been cast say ten years ago.

    Personally, I think the main villain from Bond 24 -if it is either Chiwetel Ejiofor or Mark Strong- will not play Blofeld. Just like it was done in FRWL and TB. In TB Largo was the main Bond villain, but Blofeld was pulling the strings behind every ambitious plan. If they introduce Blofeld it will be done slowly and carefully, perhaps with only one faceless cameo in one of the very last scenes of the movie.

    Do we know for sure Bond 24 and 25 will be connected?

    I thought this had been confirmed as a 'no'.

    Trust no one! B-)
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Cox is too old, but Ejiofor is too young, too handsome and too not like the source material's Blofeld to be Blofeld.

    Let's not forget that Blofeld is an Eastern European with some Greek blood, who claims to be of French aristocratic descent. He is an experienced criminal who in spite of his ruthlessness managed to keep himself clean, mostly, until the events of TB. Casting him should reflect the appearance(s) of the Blofeld of the novels and his background too.

    I do think EON and the powers that be could easily change Blofeld to be none of those things. There is nothing making them go by the Fleming template. They may want to just do their own twist on it and surprise us. And the bald man with the cat has been blown to never-never parody land by Austin Powers.

    At this time, I cannot think of an actor who would fit Blofeld very well. Though I would sitll lean towards Gary Oldman (just because he is such a good actor and can play good or evil).
  • Posts: 15,106
    Except that Blofeld was never in the books a bald man with a cat. Yes of course, they might change everything but keep the name, but that would defeat the object.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Except that Blofeld was never in the books a bald man with a cat. Yes of course, they might change everything but keep the name, but that would defeat the object.

    Which is why they should just leave Blofeld be and opt for New and original villains.
  • Posts: 15,106
    Murdock wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Except that Blofeld was never in the books a bald man with a cat. Yes of course, they might change everything but keep the name, but that would defeat the object.

    Which is why they should just leave Blofeld be and opt for New and original villains.

    This is completely non sequitur. Blofeld being originally a very different character than what he became in the movies means you can actually finally use him by making him more akin to the novels'.

    The novel Dracula was never faithfully adapted. It spawned a few interesting movies, some great ones even, but none truly captured its scope and complexity. Yes, you can always create new vampires. But that does not make the novel Dracula irrelevant in our day and age.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Except that Blofeld was never in the books a bald man with a cat. Yes of course, they might change everything but keep the name, but that would defeat the object.

    Which is why they should just leave Blofeld be and opt for New and original villains.

    This is completely non sequitur. Blofeld being originally a very different character than what he became in the movies means you can actually finally use him by making him more akin to the novels'.

    The novel Dracula was never faithfully adapted. It spawned a few interesting movies, some great ones even, but none truly captured its scope and complexity. Yes, you can always create new vampires. But that does not make the novel Dracula irrelevant in our day and age.

    So are you suggesting they make Blofeld movies every decade?
  • Posts: 15,106
    No, I am saying Blofeld has a place in Bond movies. Providing he is done properly, it goes without saying.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Ludovico wrote: »
    No, I am saying Blofeld has a place in Bond movies. Providing he is done properly, it goes without saying.

    He had a place, long ago. Not all of Flemings villains were done to an exact T.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Murdock wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    No, I am saying Blofeld has a place in Bond movies. Providing he is done properly, it goes without saying.

    He had a place, long ago. Not all of Flemings villains were done to an exact T.

    We have never seen Fleming's Hugo Drax on the screen. I would much rather see that character (albeit with a different name if needs be) than Blofeld return.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Murdock wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    No, I am saying Blofeld has a place in Bond movies. Providing he is done properly, it goes without saying.

    He had a place, long ago. Not all of Flemings villains were done to an exact T.

    We have never seen Fleming's Hugo Drax on the screen. I would much rather see that character (albeit with a different name if needs be) than Blofeld return.

    Gustav Graves would somewhat fit that bill. As badly written as he was.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    Murdock wrote: »
    Gustav Graves would somewhat fit that bill. As badly written as he was.
    Toby was good, better than the film he was in. As was Broz & Pike... but we NEED a proper Drax at SOME point....
  • edited October 2014 Posts: 6,844
    We also got Alec Trevelyan as Drax, complete with veiny, scarred half of his face, wartime backstory, infiltration into prominent position in British high society/government, and revenge against England scheme.
  • Posts: 15,106
    Hugo Drax was done very often, except chopped in little pieces. Like Frankenstein's monster! In fact, even Raul Silva had a bit of Drax.

    But Blofeld, on the other hand, was barely developed, if you think about it. He was only properly developed in OHMSS, and that was it.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Hugo Drax was done very often, except chopped in little pieces. Like Frankenstein's monster! In fact, even Raul Silva had a bit of Drax.

    But Blofeld, on the other hand, was barely developed, if you think about it. He was only properly developed in OHMSS, and that was it.

    Except Fleming's Drax is a far better villain than Fleming's Blofeld. At the risk of getting slapped down here I find Blofeld overrated in both book and film.

    In TB he has basically one (albeit good) scene, in OHMSS he has a couple of scenes (the one with Campbell is superb although more because Bond is sweating rather than anything Blofeld does) but doesnt do a lot except kill Tracy. YOLT is his best appearance and even here he only gets a couple of chapters.
    Drax on the other hand features in virtually every chapter. I'd be willing wager that Fleming wrote more about Drax than he did Blofeld but I cant be arsed to do a word count.

    In the films he is better but I would contend that his best appearances are in FRWL and TB rather than any of the films in which he has a proper role. Telly is pretty good but Pleasance and Gray are Bond villain caricatures that spawned Dr Evil.

    It seems to me that Blofeld is only rated as Bond's Moriarty more for the symbolic act of killing Tracy than anything else.
  • edited October 2014 Posts: 11,119
    Blofeld is indeed Bond's Moriarty. And what's wrong with that? He is the most famous Bond villain ever. Perhaps you are right that Blofeld from the novel was not that much visible. On the other hand, that made him for me also more sinister.

    Good villains IMO don't need to have as much screen-/novel-time as Bond. A good villain twists and bends your own ideas about how that villain could or will act or look like. I don't want to have a villain that basically throws his presence from start to end in your face. Wrong.

    It's one of the reasons that I didn't understand why certain fans disliked the lack of Silva's screentime. That very lack of screentime created so much more sinister scenes and events in the first half of the movie.....eventually leading to a grand Dr.No-esque entrance. Yes indeed, the viewer is tested with Sherlock Holmes-esque "who-dunnit?" and "who-is-it?" questions. I love that, ever since "Dr. No".

    Drax from the novel didn't had that for me. Also, I just don't understand why people deliberately wanna shelve Blofeld. Man, be a bit more proud of Blofeld's legacy over a course of 6 movies (3 uncredited). Also, I really want Bond 24 to be at least as big as Skyfall. Drax is great for you as a fan, but also think of the less nerdy cinema visitors. For ordinary people the name Blofeld has more resonance. Look to Austin Powers....lately even one member of UKIP (not that I want Blofeld to be like them, but he is certainly more well-known)!

    Then the next step is very simple. Re-introduce Blofeld slowly, in a different and slower pace that does justice to the more realistic approach of the Craig-era. I firmly believe that that's the recipe for something marvellous.

    No @TheWizardOfIce, I disagree with you. In a respectful way though. but still I'd love to see Blofeld back. McCrory is dead, finished! Not Blofeld.
  • edited October 2014 Posts: 11,119
    I'm now watching "Moonraker" with the cable car fight between Bond/Goedhead and Jaws. Same with Jaws. A henchman like him could be re-introduced in a way more sinister, psychotic way.

    For instance, I think for today's movie standards it would be a very good idea if Jaws actually violently threw Goodhead of that cable car! That we actually see Goodhead falling to her death for 30 secs. Jaws survives in a more realistic way, violently drags Bond in the ambulance towards the Amazon pyramids.

    Less screentime for the Bond girl yes, but already so much more interesting movie-wise, creative-wise. I prefer such an approach mentioned by me.

    Oowh wait, Baby & Michael want to have an iconic henchman again for Bond 24. Here you go :-). Something similar can be done with a long-term approach (3 films?) for Blofeld. :\">
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Fair enough mate. I'm not actually slagging off Blofeld per se and I certainly recognise him as a great villain and understand what makes a great Bond villain (unlike some others on another thread who have Koskov and Carver above Dr No and Goldfinger - I'm not making it up!).

    Just that personally Drax has more personality as a character and I never seem able to really get a handle on Blofeld. You are saying that his inhabiting of the shadows is what makes him more sinister and I can see where you're coming from and it's all a matter of personal taste but personally I find Drax a more convincing piece of writing by Fleming.
    And given that Dr No only has two chapters of 'book time' (is that the literary equivalent of screen time?) I agree that its ot all about exposure but Dr No comes across as far more vivid and menacing in such a very short time whereas I always find Blofeld to be somewhat flat by comparison to Fleming's big 3 (IMO) - Drax, Dr No and Goldfinger. I would also probably rate Grant up there too.

    I would pull you up on one thing however; namely that one should be proud of Blofeld's cinematic legacy. OHMSS aside what is that legacy exactly? A character that became such a parody of itself that it spawned a whole series of comedy films? You are correct to say Blofeld as a character, or, to be accurate, as a cliche, is widely recognised by the general public but I wouldn't say in a good way. The Blofeld of YOLT and DAF is indistinguishable to the general public from Dr Evil so any reboot needs to be done extremely carefully with excellent writing and a charismatic actor who can make the whole thing completely fresh.
  • Posts: 11,119
    And exactly for that reason it's time to "do Blofeld properly". The Joker once was a cheesy clown for Batman. But that has changed considerably. I don't think it's bad that Blofeld has this cheesy image. I see it as an asset to work on redesigning Blofeld completely.

    Sadly, for you it's better to shelve Blofeld, because of its cheesy brand image. That's IMO choosing for the easy option. Then again, let's agree to disagree. We will never fully agree on this point :-).
  • Posts: 15,106
    I don't think one can judge the interest or relevance of a villain but the amount of time he is seen on screen or on the pages. In the films Blofeld was overused. In the novel, he was used parsimoniously, but correctly, keeping an aura of mystery and menace by being rarely seen. So no, I don't find him overrated at all. Yes, he is a bit like Moriarty, as like him he was promoted into becoming the hero's nemesis. But what schemes he did and what resilience he had! In TB, he masterminds the whole plot AND escapes the law afteward, manages to stay in hiding yet scheme again in OHMSS, in which he is basically a modern Dracula (in fact both novels have striking similarities). In YOLT, he is downright Satan ruling his Pandemonium.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    I can see both sides of the argument here, but one thing I will say is that I believe the general public are more au fait with names such as Goldfinger and Scaramanga. I don't actually think a lot of people see or even remember Blofeld as a definitive Bond villain. I'd put Jaws, Baron Samedi, Oddjob etc above him in the memorable villains category. For that reason alone I think it's a stretch to assume the public see him as the Moriarty of the Bond world.
  • Posts: 15,106
    In the movies, certainly. I would venture that Blofeld is not even a name for the general public! It is literally Dr Evil they remember. But in the novels, he is indeed the Moriarty of the Bond universe, AND Blofeld like Moriarty has been used far less in the source material than in the adaptations. Which is ironic, since he is far more developed in the novels than in the movies.
  • edited October 2014 Posts: 11,119
    Lovely article on our beloved MI6-HQ.com frontpage :-) http://www.mi6-hq.com/sections/articles/history-spectre-origins?t=&s=&id=03772 . Written by guest writer Twan Arts....
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited October 2014 Posts: 9,117
    Lovely article on our beloved MI6-HQ.com frontpage :-) http://www.mi6-hq.com/sections/articles/history-spectre-origins?t=&s=&id=03772 . Written by guest writer Twan Arts....

    Are you Twan Arts in disguise or something?

    This is just a back-of-a-cereal-box potted history of SPECTRE and Blofeld that any number of us on here could knock out equally competently in 15 minutes.

    I don't really see why you feel the need to draw our attention to it as it offers no insight or analysis in the slightest just stuff the average Bond fan already knows.

    I'd much rather see MI6 supporting writers such as Dragonpol. The articles he posts on his blog come at you from left field and give you food for thought rather than lightweight fluff such as this that doesnt add to the sum of anyone's knowledge or raise any sort of discussion points.
  • edited October 2014 Posts: 11,119
    Lovely article on our beloved MI6-HQ.com frontpage :-) http://www.mi6-hq.com/sections/articles/history-spectre-origins?t=&s=&id=03772 . Written by guest writer Twan Arts....

    Are you Twan Arts in disguise or something?

    This is just a back-of-a-cereal-box potted history of SPECTRE and Blofeld that any number of us on here could knock out equally competently in 15 minutes.

    I don't really see why you feel the need to draw our attention to it as it offers no insight or analysis in the slightest just stuff the average Bond fan already knows.

    I'd much rather see MI6 supporting writers such as Dragonpol. The articles he posts on his blog are come at you from left field and give you food for thought rather than lightweight fluff such as this that doesnt add to the sum of anyone's knowledge or raise any sort of discussion points.

    Ooowh my. Someone gets irritated. Can I also LIKE a short piece of rewritten history and feature it in a topic that is related to that? I KNOW that it doesn't give new insight. But we're still talking about our MI6-HQ website ok?

    For your information, I like more complex articles too. But not all MI6-HQ visitors or MI6COMMUNITY poster are like you. There are also newbies around these places you know?
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    This thread.
    beating-a-dead-horse-animated-gif.gif
  • Posts: 1,548
    Ludovico wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    Clive Russell. Brian Cox?

    Are they good, well-established actors @Whitaker1987?

    You've never heard of Brian Cox?

    Ten, fifteen years ago he would have been fine, now I think he is a bit too old. He does look like TBs Blofeld? Is it me or many actors mentioned for Blofeld were also mentioned at some point for M? Interesting, as if Blofeld was the polar opposite of M, not Bond.

    Brian Cox is way too young. He's brilliant at physics though! lol! (for all Americans out there are 2 Brian Coxes in the UK- one being a Television astro physicist!)
  • Mark Strong was previously linked with Bond 24, could he be lined up for Blofeld?? He looks like quite a calculating, menacing person :)
  • Posts: 267
    I think Stellan Skarsgard would be a perfect choice. He can look so menacing yet trustworthy at the same time which could work for a new Blofeld.
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