SPECTRE: So who's going to play Ernst?

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  • edited November 2014 Posts: 15,106
    Nobody here wants Blofeld done wrong, obviously, although we do not all agree on the right way to reintroduce him or to reinterpret him. That said, many people here, including myself, think that we should get back to the Blofeld of the novels.

    Oh and again, I cannot stress it enough: the character Tracy is NOT central to the character of Blofeld. Originally, Moriarty was created to kill Sherlock Holmes and, while Blofeld share many traits with the Professor, he is different here: he was existed and developed before Tracy died. I will go as far as saying that Tracy existed to be killed, not Blofeld to kill her.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Tracy definitely should not be a part and parcel of a Blofeld return.

    I'm trying now to picture Blofeld in a way that would be interesting for me. Still working on it.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    edited November 2014 Posts: 16,351
    I think I'd be willing to accept Blofeld if we was true to his literary source but perhaps change his race. Ala Jeffery Wright as Felix and Naomi Harris as Moneypenny. Controversial opinion yes, but it would give way to make Idris Elba Blofeld which I could totally see.
  • Posts: 15,106
    Why, why, why change his race? Especially if you want him to be true to the literary source. A Pole who is half Greek, had background from germany and claims to have French blood. Aristocratic, no less! I love Idris Elba, but Blofeld he is not. And
    I'm trying now to picture Blofeld in a way that would be interesting for me. Still working on it.

    (Re?)read the novels.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    I'd enjoy Elba as Blofeld, definitely. Or for a different change up, I vote for Ken Watanabe (who is an amazing good actor). :) Still hope both are in a Bond film some day.
  • What could Christoph Waltz casting mean for Blofeld and S.P.E.C.T.R.E.?
    In all honesty, I do not think Waltz is going to play Blofeld. We already know his role will be rather large and will be complex of nature. It can be an ally, a villain or a bit of both. I personally think Waltz will play a character not that much different from Silva. An ex-ally who turned into a villain. But this time around I actually think we will see the process on screen, of the ally turning into a villain.

    Waltz could play a covert information source for MI6. A source that leaks important cables to MI6, but that slowly, during the movie, sells this information to a "new brotherhood" of somekind. A bit like Dryden did in "Casino Royale". Then at the end of Bond 24 Waltz has turned into a full operative of this new "brotherhood", being then revealed as S.P.E.C.T.R.E. He then is the new "Nr.2". And is even more complex than that old Nr.2, Emilio Largo. A bit of a Kronsteen/Largo-combo.

    Furthermore, at the end of the movie, we will have our first cameo of the Nr.1 operative. A man, who could very well be Blofeld. I think that's how Waltz role will turn out to be. Not the actual Blofeld, but at least an ally that during the movie will evolve into the villain, and a very important operative of S.P.E.C.T.R.E.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Why, why, why change his race? Especially if you want him to be true to the literary source. A Pole who is half Greek, had background from germany and claims to have French blood. Aristocratic, no less! I love Idris Elba, but Blofeld he is not.

    Why not? It could help break the mould and shake off the horrible caricature that Blofeld has become. The background elements don't have to be completely the same. Why can't Blofeld be African who is half greek with a background from Germany who claims to have French Blood? I can easily see him as Blofeld of the 21st century.
  • Posts: 15,106
    I'd enjoy Elba as Blofeld, definitely. Or for a different change up, I vote for Ken Watanabe (who is an amazing good actor). :) Still hope both are in a Bond film some day.

    Well, you might as well change the name and forget about Blofeld, because he would then be a totally different character. Waltz as some similarities with the Blofeld of the novels, in appearance he is not unlike OHMSS' Blofeld.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    I feel they do NOT have to change his race, but it may be refreshing; that is why, for me, I would probably welcome it. I want something different from Blofeld if he is brought back.
  • Posts: 15,106
    How about making him as close to the novels? That would be different and refreshing. If they don't have to change his race... why change his race? Or significantly alter his age?
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    I'll go read the descriptions of him from the novels again. I am only afraid that it would not look different enough. I really want a bit of a departure because Blofeld has been sent up, joked about, for years now.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    edited November 2014 Posts: 16,351
    Ludovico wrote: »
    How about making him as close to the novels? That would be different and refreshing. If they don't have to change his race... why change his race? Or significantly alter his age?

    I explained why as it could help shake off the silly bald cat stroking caricature he's become. 8-|

    Changing his race doesn't completely change the character. Look at Jeffery Wright's Felix and Naomi Harris's money penny. They still retain their original traits. Sure Moneypenny was given a slight action oriented role but the playfully bantering with Bond remains.

    I've brought this up before as this is an illustration of how Blofeld looked in the novels.
    blofelds.jpg

    I could see Elba given a similar treatment.
    review_18340.jpg
    Takers-Idris-Elba.jpg
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    timmer wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Beside, nobody complains when Moriarty shows up in a Sherlock Holmes movie or the Joker in a Batman one. Because heroes have nemesis.
    And Spectre as recurring nemesis provides permanent link with the Fleming novels as well. Fleming basically evolved the supervillain to become Blofeld.
    He started with Mr. Big and Drax, then graduated to the book-title villains Dr.No and Goldfinger, culminating with the biggest baddie of them all, the iconic chief of Spectre, one Ernst Stavro Blofeld, featured in no less than three major novels.
    Eon wisely seized on the import of Spectre and made a point of insinuating it into the very first book adaptation, and maintained this continuity over 6 of the first 7 films (time-out for GF) and would have continued, but for Kevin McClory throwing up legal hurdles.
    Now there is the chance to go back to Plan A (McClory is no longer a problem) and re-establish Bond vs Spectre as recurring nemesis. This approach also allows for linkage between films, to varying degrees as wanted.
    I think its a far more realistic approach too (not that Bond need be pre-occupied with excessive duty to realism) in that a criminal organization of Spectre-like scope, constantly re-inventing itself, under a consistent charter of sorts, is more plausible, even in the fanciful Bond universe, than freshly minted new supervillains, such as Stromberg, movie-Drax, Zorin, Silva, Trevelyan, Carver, Graves, drug lords and Afghan princes as supervillains etc, popping up every 3 years to wreak havoc on the world.
    Its like a supervillain epidemic.
    With Spectre we get best of both worlds- continuity with Fleming's ultimate creation of villainy - and potential for both continuity and film linkage, along with maxium variety in terms of schemes, characters etc.
    It would also re-focus the Craig era back on what it teased with Quantum ie a powerful criminal organization working behind the scenes to manipulate world events.
    Quantum is easily devolved or evolved into Spectre.

    Okay, I get this. I personally would want Quantum to turn out to be some part of Spectre. I would not want Quantum dropped completely.

    I am looking now for a succinct description of Blofeld from the novels. Don't hit me with "read 7 pages back!" - I am on my way to work fairly soon and trying to find a definitive description. Can anyone just list it (even if repeating it again; sorry I am not finding this easily)? Thanks!
  • Posts: 15,106
    Murdock wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    How about making him as close to the novels? That would be different and refreshing. If they don't have to change his race... why change his race? Or significantly alter his age?

    I explained why as it could help shake off the silly bald cat stroking characature he's become. 8-|

    The bald man stroking a cat is not from the novels however. He is not even bald in the novels! So the original character is nothing like the caricature. You want to shake off the spoof? So do I. Hence: make him as close as possible to the character from the novels. No scar, bald head, cat, Mao suit.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    I get that the Austin Powers send up of Donald's Blofeld is not what was in the novels. I'm sorry the general public really thinks that way (I am assuming).

    Can you give me a succinct description of Blofeld, from the novels, please? I would really appreciate it (besides his ethnic background, which has recently been mentioned).
  • Posts: 15,106
    I'll go read the descriptions of him from the novels again. I am only afraid that it would not look different enough. I really want a bit of a departure because Blofeld has been sent up, joked about, for years now.

    From Thunderball (the description I have now, obviously Waltz looks more like the OHMSS portrait):

    ''Blofeld's own eyes were deep black pools surrounded -totally surrounded, as Mussoloni's were- by very clear whites. The doll-like effect of this unusual symmetry was enhanced by long silken black eyelashes that should have belonged to a woman. The gaze of these soft doll's eyes was totally relaxed and rarely held any expression stronger than the mild curiosity in the object of their focus. (...)Blofeld's gaze was a microscope, the window on the world on a superbly clear brain, with a focus that had been sharpened by thirty years of danger and of keeping just one step ahead of it (...)

    The skin beneath the eyes that now slowly, mildly, surveyed his colleagues was unpouched. There was no sign of debauchery, illness, or old age on the large, white, bland face under the square, wiry black crew-cut The jawline, going on the appropriate middle-aged fat of authority, showed decision and independence. Only the mouth under a heavy, squat nose, marred what might have been the face of a philosopher or a scientist. Proud and thin, like a badly-healed wound, the compressed, dark lips, capable of only false, ugly smiles, suggested contempt, tyranny, and cruelty. But to an almost Shakespearian degree. Nothing about Blofeld was small.
    ''
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    thank you!
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    How about making him as close to the novels? That would be different and refreshing. If they don't have to change his race... why change his race? Or significantly alter his age?

    I explained why as it could help shake off the silly bald cat stroking characature he's become. 8-|

    The bald man stroking a cat is not from the novels however. He is not even bald in the novels! So the original character is nothing like the caricature. You want to shake off the spoof? So do I. Hence: make him as close as possible to the character from the novels. No scar, bald head, cat, Mao suit.

    They can do that easily with Elba. It's not hard to imagine it. I'm trying to play Devil's advocate here.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Yes, you could have (theoretically!) Elba fit a menacing Blofeld.
    Stellen Skaarsgard, too, just to throw out another name of an actor I really like.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Yes, you could have (theoretically!) Elba fit a menacing Blofeld.
    Stellen Skaarsgard, too, just to throw out another name of an actor I really like.
    Oh yes! He was very chilling in TGWTDT.
  • edited November 2014 Posts: 15,106
    No they can't with Idris Elba, however I love the guy: he is not exactly Easter European. Blofeld had mixed ethnic background, being half-Greek half-Pole, and he claimed to be of French descent, but he was not a British black man. Elba could make a great Buonaparte Ignace Gallia, if he gained a few pounds. But not a Blofeld. Neither could Ejiofor (who could not play a Gallia either, actually).
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    I somehow don't think the producers would mind changing the race of Blofeld, though.
  • Posts: 15,106
    I somehow don't think the producers would mind changing the race of Blofeld, though.

    They might have thought about it with Ejiofor, although I doubt he was considered for Blofeld's role. Not impossible, but it would not be a god idea IMO.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Ludovico wrote: »
    No they can't with Idris Elba, however I love the guy: he is not exactly Easter European. Blofeld had mixed ethnic background, being half-Greek half-Pole, and he claimed to be of French descent, but he was not a British black man. Elba could make a great Buonaparte Ignace Gallia, if he gained a few pounds. But not a Blofeld. Neither could Ejiofor (who could not play a Gallia either, actually).

    Who said Elba had to play a British Black Man? I'll ask you again. Why can't he be African and Half Greek with German and french Blood? Actors don't have to play their nationality you know. Robert Downy Jr. played Sherlock Holmes a British man. And Downy Jr. isn't British. Sean Connery is Scottish and played a Russian. Hugh Laurie is British and played an American.
  • Posts: 15,106
    Murdock wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    No they can't with Idris Elba, however I love the guy: he is not exactly Easter European. Blofeld had mixed ethnic background, being half-Greek half-Pole, and he claimed to be of French descent, but he was not a British black man. Elba could make a great Buonaparte Ignace Gallia, if he gained a few pounds. But not a Blofeld. Neither could Ejiofor (who could not play a Gallia either, actually).

    Who said Elba had to play a British Black Man? I'll ask you again. Why can't he be African and Half Greek with German and french Blood? Actors don't have to play their nationality you know. Robert Downy Jr. played Sherlock Holmes a British man. And Downy Jr. isn't British. Sean Connery is Scottish and played a Russian. Hugh Laurie is British and played an American.

    How many Pole nationals born 40 or 50 something years ago were Black? How was immigration in communist Poland then? How about Blofeld trying to become a de Bleuville? Could he convince anyone? Elba is not mixed race, and does not remotely look mixed race. All the actors you mention could pass on to a degree as a Soviet general, a British man, from the time their characters lived.

    Elba wouldn't be able to play a Nazi or a Soviet general, for the same reason. Not a very convincing one anyway, however talented he is as an actor.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited November 2014 Posts: 12,480
    He could be African and Greek, with French. Sure. I think a lot of folks who read the novels do picture him as a European Caucasian because (obviously) he is described at such. But he could be mixed race and black, yes.

    Look, I think Waltz is a very good actor and I am even more excited about him being on board than Ejiofor. My qualms about Blofeld are simply to not make him fir the current well known parody of Blofeld - make him like the novel Blofeld (from what I have recently read now) OR go creative and make him look quite different. But menacing, and I think a quiet menace with lots of strength behind the facade, is important. And I do hope (only my personal hope) that Blofeld is not the main villain in Bond 24; only teased at the end. I won't be crushed if he is ... as long as it is well done and by that I mean different from the public's image and very menacing, a real powerhouse threat for Bond.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    edited November 2014 Posts: 16,351
    @Ludovico, It's 2014 not the 1950's. Anything can happen now. Your cherrypicking my response. No duh that Elba couldn't play a Nazi or Soviet. That's not the point I was making. Just because he's British in real life doesn't mean he has to play a Brit on film. 8-|
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited November 2014 Posts: 12,480
    Of course he does not have to play a Brit. I don't know how I did not make that clear.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    edited November 2014 Posts: 16,351
    I'm sorry @4EverBonded. I was replying to @Ludovico.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Okay. :D
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