SPECTRE: So who's going to play Ernst?

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  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    edited May 2015 Posts: 40,963
    @SirHilaryBray, yes, there will be an almighty twist...to the general moviegoing audience. Hardcore fans are piecing things together - the movie is called 'Spectre,' for crying out loud - and with an actor as big and talented as Waltz joining now, I don't see him simply playing a character named Oberhauser. I think we're now overcomplicating something obvious that is staring us right in the face. It'd be nice for some even bigger twist to occur to throw us all off the scent, but really, diehard fans are figuring out what is more than likely the obvious, and those who show up to see the movie without knowing much about the history of James Bond will certainly be in for a big twist, I'm sure.

    You don't know how many people I heard asking who Moneypenny and Q were right after the midnight premiere of SF ended. The general public seems to have no idea, so they'll definitely be in for a treat come October/November when they figure it out. Of course, I could be absolutely wrong, and it'd be nice if that's the case, but you said it yourself: they just reacquired the rights to Blofeld, so why would they ever do that and title the film 'Spectre,' just to not feature Blofeld at all?
  • Posts: 15,110
    Yeah I know. Will be more careful next time.
  • Posts: 1,552
    @Creasy47 If the general movie going public don't know who Blofeld is, why make the twist at all if it's going to be obvious to Bond fans?

    (I'm pretty sure Blofeld is in the public consciousness)
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    edited May 2015 Posts: 40,963
    @JCRendle, it's happened with many films over the last few years, and mostly blockbusters: the filmmakers decide to come up with some unique "twist," the diehard fans out there discover what it'll be, and before the film is out, it's leaked everywhere, so anyone with an Internet connection can see it. The film is released, some of us hope it'll be incorrect (because of how obvious it is at that point, and because hey, who doesn't enjoy a proper twist that you didn't see coming?), but it isn't, so there's no surprise.

    I'd like to think Blofeld is in the public consciousness, especially after the popular Dr. Evil parody from the Austin Powers films, but honestly, if Blofeld is that well known, shouldn't MP and Q be, just as well? Yet like I stated, you don't know how many random attendees showed up for a midnight premiere to the newest Bond film, just to walk out asking who characters like MP and Q were.
  • EiragornEiragorn Hessia
    edited May 2015 Posts: 108
    There is no way in paying of the McClory estate for the use of Spectre and Blofeld that Blofeld and Spectre will only feature once. And I don't see Waltz return for another nor do I see him as an actor who wishes to risk being tagged as certain character. I think Waltz his the head of Qauntum and Bond before killing him learns from him what is behind Qauntum. Like in Skyfall by trying to keep M's death a secret I don't think it will be as straight forward and obvious as Waltz being Blofeld. I reckon there will be an almighty twist.

    And of course someone like CW will be the only mayor villain - therefore Oberhauser=Blofeld or no Blofeld at all. And because I don't believe CW will return I don't think he's Blofeld.

    But in case he is, I got another theory :D
    What if Bond is hot on the trails of SPECTRE and therefore they decide to put out a bait to lure him into his own demise: They use their MI6 connections to amass information about Bond's past. Then to ensure this operation works out the SPECTRE higher-up 'Blofeld' assumes the identity of one of Bond's childhood friends Oberhauser, who is dead for a while now unbeknownst to Bond. And because the operation is shaping up to be a success he climbs up the ladder in the SPECTRE hierarchy.
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    @Eiragorn, if anything, it's just a horribly kept secret. There have been many twists to blockbusters these past few years that fans have figured out several months before the film's release, and they're correct, no matter how much it's denied by the cast and crew. Just look at 'Star Trek: Into Darkness.'

    Exactly, I don't think Hollywood's PR people didn't learn out of that. They announced CW with quite some fanfare and they sure as hell know what the public would believe him to be.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Waltz is Blofeld. The twist will be 'how' he's Blofeld, not 'if'. He'll also return. I don't see how this won't happen. Forget the conjecture.
  • Posts: 15,110
    RC7 wrote: »
    Waltz is Blofeld. The twist will be 'how' he's Blofeld, not 'if'. He'll also return. I don't see how this won't happen. Forget the conjecture.

    that is the most likely scenario. People here expect a twist for the sake of it. Don't think they'd mess up an inspired casting decision for the sake of a pointless twist. Like they screw it up in Iron Man 3. Again people: you don't cast Waltz in a movie to have your main villain be Andrew Scott. Ain't gonna happen. Not that they cannot make that mistake, but it's unlikely they would.

    So my money is on a Jekyll and Hyde twist.
  • Posts: 1,552
    Ludovico wrote: »
    you don't cast Waltz in a movie to have your main villain be Andrew Scott. Ain't gonna happen.
    Waltz can still be the main villain without being Blofeld - they could still hold Blofeld back for B25.

  • edited May 2015 Posts: 15,110
    JCRendle wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    you don't cast Waltz in a movie to have your main villain be Andrew Scott. Ain't gonna happen.
    Waltz can still be the main villain without being Blofeld - they could still hold Blofeld back for B25.

    Yes, that would be the second most probable hypothesis. But then they'd have to think of a new casting for Blofeld for Bond 25. And after Waltz, that would be even more challenging. In the original timeline, I don't think they ever got Blofeld completely right once he showed his face, not even in OHMSS.

    And there are also other elements, from what we could gather in various interviews and so on, that makes me believe that Christoph Waltz is Blofeld.

    My bet is that the early treatments had a proto or crypto-Blofeld, when they were not sure they could use the character, then they decided to go forward with Blofeld when they knew they could use him.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,963
    Again, they acquire the rights to Blofeld, name the film 'Spectre,' cast Christoph Waltz...just to NOT introduce Blofeld? I don't see that happening.
  • Posts: 15,110
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Again, they acquire the rights to Blofeld, name the film 'Spectre,' cast Christoph Waltz...just to NOT introduce Blofeld? I don't see that happening.

    Me neither. Neither can I see them casting somebody else as Blofeld. And it is very unlikely that they kept a casting very close to their chest for Blofeld.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Again, they acquire the rights to Blofeld, name the film 'Spectre,' cast Christoph Waltz...just to NOT introduce Blofeld? I don't see that happening.

    Me neither. People thinking Waltz isn't Blofeld are overthinking things in my opinion. The twist is surely 'how', not 'if'.
  • Posts: 15,110
    RC7 wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Again, they acquire the rights to Blofeld, name the film 'Spectre,' cast Christoph Waltz...just to NOT introduce Blofeld? I don't see that happening.

    Me neither. People thinking Waltz isn't Blofeld are overthinking things in my opinion. The twist is surely 'how', not 'if'.

    Very likely.

    Again, The Jekyll and Hyde twist. You read the novella for the first time, you see the double identity was written as a shocking revelation, an unexpected twist. But you don't read it as such, because you know the gist of the story before even reading the first line. Your expectations are different.

    This is in my opinion what is being done with the Blofeld character here. They know we know. They will do as if we don't. Because let's face it, no matter how one cuts, who among the cast right now could be Blofeld and satisfy the public with the revelation? Who else than Waltz?
  • Posts: 1,552
    Ludovico wrote: »
    They know we know. They will do as if we don't. Because let's face it, no matter how one cuts, who among the cast right now could be Blofeld and satisfy the public with the revelation? Who else than Waltz?
    Daniel Craig?

    b-(
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,963
    RC7 wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Again, they acquire the rights to Blofeld, name the film 'Spectre,' cast Christoph Waltz...just to NOT introduce Blofeld? I don't see that happening.

    Me neither. People thinking Waltz isn't Blofeld are overthinking things in my opinion. The twist is surely 'how', not 'if'.

    This, most certainly. Now it'll just be a matter of when he goes from being known as Oberhauser to being introduced as ESB. Should prove interesting!
  • Posts: 15,110
    There's just no other plausible candidate than Christoph Waltz.
  • Posts: 1,552
    (Playing Devil's advocate on the is he isn't he)
  • edited May 2015 Posts: 15,110
    It makes sense that it Christoph Waltz. He looks like the OHMSS Blofeld. Like for all the villains of the Craig era (and unlike the Brosnan era), he is a veteran actor and not a Brit or native English speaker. Also, he is a renown veteran actor (like Javier Bardem and to a lesser extend the previous two). To me, it makes no doubt in my mind that he is the main antagonist of SP. And it is very likely that he is Blofeld.
  • Posts: 15,110
    I am glad they are not casting British actors as villains since the Craig era, but I watched The Grand Seduction yesterday and it struck me that Brendan Gleeson would have made an amazing TB looking Blofeld.
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    Posts: 2,138
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I am glad they are not casting British actors as villains since the Craig era, but I watched The Grand Seduction yesterday and it struck me that Brendan Gleeson would have made an amazing TB looking Blofeld.

    Just a great big wild guess. Based on what we have seen so far. I do not read script leaks.
    I am begining to think, Waltz is not and it is Scott, But I am also beginging to think Waltz/oberhauser height 1.70M and Scott/Deby height 1.73M may be the same person.

    Now hear me out,
    Jouno's have already picked up on other Live & Lets Die elements were seeing in Spectrem Mendes's personal favorite Bond movie.
    What if Mendes wants to use the same Mr big reveal moment with his own twist?.

    We have seen Waltz with with CGI stickers on his face, some think its to project a scar, but the motion dots were all over his face, which would give the indication they wil impose either someone elses bursting through Waltz face or vice/versa. So my guess Blofeld is Andrew Scott who is both Oberhauser and Denby, but he is not the real Oberhauser Bonds surrogate brother
  • Posts: 15,110
    I think this is really far fetched. I doubt for a number of reasons it is the actor you mention. With Waltz in the cast another actor as Blofeld would come off as rather disappointing.
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    edited June 2015 Posts: 2,138
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I think this is really far fetched. I doubt for a number of reasons it is the actor you mention. With Waltz in the cast another actor as Blofeld would come off as rather disappointing.

    I think Sherlock fans would disagree with you Ludovico. Many regard Scott as the best to portray Moriarty he is an equally impressive actor in the role of a villain. My only concerns is if they go down said root that it has been done again since LALD with Zao and I think Sherlock fans would disagree with you Ludovico. Many regard Scott as the best to portray Moriarty he is an equally impressive actor in the role of a villain. My only concerns is if they go down said root that it has been done again since LALD with colonel moon/Gustav Graves
    die another day
  • Posts: 15,110
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I think this is really far fetched. I doubt for a number of reasons it is the actor you mention. With Waltz in the cast another actor as Blofeld would come off as rather disappointing.

    I think Sherlock fans would disagree with you Ludovico. Many regard Scott as the best to portray Moriarty he is an equally impressive actor in the role of a villain. My only concerns is if they go down said root that it has been done again since LALD with Zao and I think Sherlock fans would disagree with you Ludovico. Many regard Scott as the best to portray Moriarty he is an equally impressive actor in the role of a villain. My only concerns is if they go down said root that it has been done again since LALD with colonel moon die another day

    Sherlock fans are but a fraction of the public. I am sure Andrew Scott is a talented actor but he's not exactly Christoph Waltz in stature. Not yet anyway. You don't cast Waltz in a movie to have Scott as a villain.

    Also: "It was Denbigh all along" sounds really lame. I can see Oberhauser being revealed as Blofeld. But a British bureaucrat, not really.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    It would Be Iron Man 3 if that were the case.
  • Posts: 15,110
    Murdock wrote: »
    It would Be Iron Man 3 if that were the case.

    And it was a terrible idea in Iron Man. Fans felt cheated and rightly so.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    It would Be Iron Man 3 if that were the case.

    And it was a terrible idea in Iron Man. Fans felt cheated and rightly so.

    Agreed. Which In itself was a rehash...
    of The Riddler's origin in Batman Forever AND The Incredibles.
  • Posts: 15,110
    Murdock wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    It would Be Iron Man 3 if that were the case.

    And it was a terrible idea in Iron Man. Fans felt cheated and rightly so.

    Agreed. Which In itself was a rehash...
    of The Riddler's origin in Batman Forever AND The Incredibles.

    And it was weak.
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    Posts: 2,138
    Murdock wrote: »
    It would Be Iron Man 3 if that were the case.

    Yes and with Skyfall there were location from Taken 2 and some of the imagery from Shanghia was just the Dark Knight. Clear Logan, Mendes and EON are prepared to take ideas from other places. As I said I was only going by the motion tracking stickers across Waltz face, it was the only conclusion I could come to. If they were to CGI I don't know why you would cover his full face with the sensors.
  • Posts: 15,110
    If you steal ideas better steal the good ones. I doubt they'll steal something that has been criticized as a mistake by fans and critics.
  • RC7RC7
    edited June 2015 Posts: 10,512
    If they were to CGI I don't know why you would cover his full face with the sensors.

    So they can track his entire face. Whatever vfx they are cooking up they will want mapping markers across his entire face. It's not dissimilar to the way they went about shooting two-face in TDK, with the same kind of retro-reflective markers (used for low light - remember the shoot was a night shoot). They triangulate the positions with their 3D model of Waltz's face. I don't necessarily think this is merely a 'scar', but some kind of full or part facial disfiguration. It's entirely possible (and quite likely) that they will use make up for most of the key shots in this scene, as we've heard they have
    constructed Westminster bridge at Pinewood
    .
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