Literary Bond in 2017

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  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    @Revelator, you're absolutely right. Fleming viewed the books as a source of income as much as anything else, and so he would need to compromise. If the edits were a means for him to get into the American market he'd have been a fool to fight back. All we can wonder now is if he was being nice about the edits in his letters to placate editors or if he was more upset about the censorship than he let on. The more I read though, I don't think he cared. His original work would always been more widely circulated in Europe, so that compromise for America was a small one. And as we've noted, he didn't attach himself to Bond as we have to such a degree. The censorship that upsets us was simple business to him.

    But you're right that Vintage should include these so-called substantial letters that feature Fleming agreeing to the edits that they say he did. To not share them is most curious. Like writing an argumentative article without citing a source.
  • ggl007ggl007 www.archivo007.com Spain, España
    Posts: 2,541
    Licence to Unbox. From Archivo 007 ;)

  • edited November 2017 Posts: 17,759
    Like the design of those new editions. Very stylish and minimalistic – with some nice artwork as well!
  • For PussyNoMore, the real issue is the assumption on behalf of IFP/Vintage that they know what he would have liked were he alive.
    Their explanation, which I assume is only read after a consumer has bought the book, is to disguise a censorship decision that fits with their own sensibilities.
    PussyNoMore finds this practice despicable and misleading. This book should have censored stamped right across the front of it and people who have bought it in the belief that it is the real deal should be given their money back.
  • Posts: 2,918
    Very nice @ggl007! I'm curious if the letters in these Vintage editions have already appeared in The Man With the Golden Typewriter or if they're new to print. Any information would be deeply appreciated.
  • Like the design of those new editions. Very stylish and minimalistic – with some nice artwork as well!

    I only have the first two, and as I've said, they're quite lovely copies.

    Regarding the 'censorship', I've got about eight copies of this novel, and this is the only one that's cut, (or, 'the American version', if you prefer). So I'm not upset about it, particularly as they've explained themselves at the start, giving the reader chance to seek out the complete versions for themselves. I do think they've taken the easy route though, and until I see Fleming's letters, I suspect they're covering their asses with the 'he would approve' statement.
    Has anyone got the Goldfinger Vintage hardback yet? I'd like to know if the lines about the Koreans is still in there.
  • ggl007ggl007 www.archivo007.com Spain, España
    Posts: 2,541
    Revelator wrote: »
    Very nice @ggl007! I'm curious if the letters in these Vintage editions have already appeared in The Man With the Golden Typewriter or if they're new to print. Any information would be deeply appreciated.

    Not all of them have been printed before, but don't expect very much. They are interesting anyway for us, completists ;)
    shamanimal wrote: »
    Has anyone got the Goldfinger Vintage hardback yet? I'd like to know if the lines about the Koreans is still in there.

    Chapter 11? Yes, they are: "They are the cruellest, most ruthless people..." etc.
  • That's good, thanks for checking. You can't beat a bit of good old racism!
    (...and mods, before you send me a message calling me racist again, I'm joking!)
  • Posts: 4,622
    @shamanimal

    Very good! If you've got 8 copies of LALD anyway, sure,it's not the worst thing to bolster the collection with what do seem to be nicely produced new hardcovers.

    Personally I won't touch them, simply because I have no interest whatsoever in owning any censored editions of the books, but this discussion has been helpful.
    I think we all have a better understanding of how the original American editions came to be.
    Our collective Bond IQ has been elevated accordingly.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,818
    Bond History!
  • Agent_99Agent_99 enjoys a spirited ride as much as the next girl
    Posts: 3,176
    A roundup of the year (posted this elsewhere, but the image is too lovely not to repeat):

    DRknZsTWAAE6zzl.jpg
    www.ianfleming.com/merry-christmas-ian-fleming-publications
  • Posts: 4,622
    Agent_99 wrote: »
    A roundup of the year (posted this elsewhere, but the image is too lovely not to repeat):

    DRknZsTWAAE6zzl.jpg
    www.ianfleming.com/merry-christmas-ian-fleming-publications

    Just read the year-end roundup note, linked above. Worth reading. That's a very nice summary of the years events, and what's in store for next year.
    I did very much enjoy this years new book, Red Nemesis.
    The new Horowitz novel and the CR graphic novel, give much to look forward to, among other Bond items for next year.

    That's one of the best year-end Christmas tributes I've read anywhere.
    IFP is in good hands I dare say!
    Love that graphic above.
    So sad about Vesper though. That does seem to be a very authentic likeness.
  • Agent_99Agent_99 enjoys a spirited ride as much as the next girl
    edited December 2017 Posts: 3,176
    timmer wrote: »
    The new Horowitz novel

    I know I keep saying this, but I am SO excited about this one. Don't let me down, Mr H.

    And yes, there are steady hands at the helm over in Fleming HQ. Long may that last.
  • Agent_99 wrote: »
    timmer wrote: »
    The new Horowitz novel

    I know I keep saying this, but I am SO excited about this one. Don't let me down, Mr H.

    And yes, there are steady hands at the helm over in Fleming HQ. Long may that last.

    PussyNoMore is confident that we are in safe hands Agent_99

    Horowitz is a real talent and unlike some of the literati that proceeded him, he has his ego under control.

    He is content to take Fleming's Bond and concentrate on writing a damn fine story.

    IFP undoubtably responded to fan pressure when they commissioned him and what a smart move that turned out to be.

    PussyNoMore can't wait to get his hands on it.

    Have a great Christmas everybody !


  • Posts: 2,599
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I could go either way with a new Horowitz Bond. I'll buy it, read it and, most likely, somewhat enjoy it. What I'm really looking forward to is getting another special edition, as I did with TRIGGER MORTIS, that includes the original Fleming teleplay that it's based upon. Any new Fleming (even seven to ten pages worth) is beyond gold. Including this upcoming one, there are only four left unpublished.

    You're not a fan of Trigger Mortis?
  • Posts: 2,599
    What was it about the prose that you didn't like?
  • Posts: 2,599
    Are you into the likes of Charles Dickens and Conan Doyle?
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I share your reading habits and opinions, @Birdleson. I was reading Dumas and Doyle in high school when other kids were leafing through Twilight and young adult hack fiction, so I definitely have a hard time digging into a lot of writing these days where the prose has lost so much artfulness in comparison to the old masters. Fleming had that, big time, and it's one of the many reasons why I love his work so much. He could paint a picture like nobody from his generation I've read, and really was one of the last wielders of literary prose.

    Not to say that there aren't writers out there who are great, but the golden days are passed and that has everything to do with the more illiterate, acronym filled age of texting and hash tagging we're currently in. There's many who wouldn't know good writing if the tome smacked them in the forehead as they gazed at their phone screens.
  • edited December 2017 Posts: 2,599
    I share your reading habits and opinions, @Birdleson. I was reading Dumas and Doyle in high school when other kids were leafing through Twilight and young adult hack fiction, so I definitely have a hard time digging into a lot of writing these days where the prose has lost so much artfulness in comparison to the old masters. Fleming had that, big time, and it's one of the many reasons why I love his work so much. He could paint a picture like nobody from his generation I've read, and really was one of the last wielders of literary prose.

    Not to say that there aren't writers out there who are great, but the golden days are passed and that has everything to do with the more illiterate, acronym filled age of texting and hash tagging we're currently in. There's many who wouldn't know good writing if the tome smacked them in the forehead as they gazed at their phone screens.

    Yeah, I was going to say this. I’m confident that at least some of these modern writers could write novels with elegant, beautifully flowing prose but they’re required to write in such a way that an idiot would understand it due to the modern readers requirements. You can say the same thing for contemporary films in general, in that many of them are too fast paced these days coupled with dialogue that lacks any real intelligence.

    Yes, Fleming had a real knack for detail where he could almost make you believe that you are with Bond in his wheels, cruising down a Jamaican road lined with hibiscus but even his writing didn’t flow quite as well as it could have had in occasional parts.

    I think Horowitz has a decent style for the modern reader of a Bond book.

    I certainly do wish though that society hadn’t changed since the “golden days”
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    @Bounine, you address a vital secondary point I hadn't immediately thought of: outside of the writers who aren't as good, those who are great but must dumb down their prose for the masses. Which is no doubt a real thing.

    When I was writing in college certain kids and I would get similar comments, to choose different language and things like that in what we were crafting, which is pretty insulting to those who are meant to read it. I have more faith in people than to dumb down language to fit their level, as that gets you nowhere. I got into reading by picking books above my level that challenged me and also grew my vocabulary, and I think that's how kids should still be learning. We get nowhere when writers are forced to limit their vision or word choice in their books. In many ways, books are the best language teachers you could ask for, if you've got the right books.
  • Bounine wrote: »
    I share your reading habits and opinions, @Birdleson. I was reading Dumas and Doyle in high school when other kids were leafing through Twilight and young adult hack fiction, so I definitely have a hard time digging into a lot of writing these days where the prose has lost so much artfulness in comparison to the old masters. Fleming had that, big time, and it's one of the many reasons why I love his work so much. He could paint a picture like nobody from his generation I've read, and really was one of the last wielders of literary prose.

    Not to say that there aren't writers out there who are great, but the golden days are passed and that has everything to do with the more illiterate, acronym filled age of texting and hash tagging we're currently in. There's many who wouldn't know good writing if the tome smacked them in the forehead as they gazed at their phone screens.

    Yeah, I was going to say this. I’m confident that at least some of these modern writers could write novels with elegant, beautifully flowing prose but they’re required to write in such a way that an idiot would understand it due to the modern readers requirements. You can say the same thing for contemporary films in general, in that many of them are too fast paced these days coupled with dialogue that lacks any real intelligence.

    Yes, Fleming had a real knack for detail where he could almost make you believe that you are with Bond in his wheels, cruising down a Jamaican road lined with hibiscus but even his writing didn’t flow quite as well as it could have had in occasional parts.

    I think Horowitz has a decent style for the modern reader of a Bond book.

    I certainly do wish though that society hadn’t changed since the “golden days”

    The answer to this has to be yes and no. PussyNoMore doubts that anybody tells Le Carre to dumb down his prose and if they did, they'd be out the door before they could say 'mine's a large one'.
    On the other hand, if Wilbur Smith or James Patterson's ghost writers arrived with anything truly literate they'd be sent out for psychiatric help.
    There are excellent writers out there; Philip Kerr, John Lawton or Alan Furst to name but three. That said, don't expect to find them in a huge heap at your local Borders or Waterstones. Albeit they all sell well.
  • edited December 2017 Posts: 2,599
    Bounine wrote: »
    I share your reading habits and opinions, @Birdleson. I was reading Dumas and Doyle in high school when other kids were leafing through Twilight and young adult hack fiction, so I definitely have a hard time digging into a lot of writing these days where the prose has lost so much artfulness in comparison to the old masters. Fleming had that, big time, and it's one of the many reasons why I love his work so much. He could paint a picture like nobody from his generation I've read, and really was one of the last wielders of literary prose.

    Not to say that there aren't writers out there who are great, but the golden days are passed and that has everything to do with the more illiterate, acronym filled age of texting and hash tagging we're currently in. There's many who wouldn't know good writing if the tome smacked them in the forehead as they gazed at their phone screens.

    Yeah, I was going to say this. I’m confident that at least some of these modern writers could write novels with elegant, beautifully flowing prose but they’re required to write in such a way that an idiot would understand it due to the modern readers requirements. You can say the same thing for contemporary films in general, in that many of them are too fast paced these days coupled with dialogue that lacks any real intelligence.

    Yes, Fleming had a real knack for detail where he could almost make you believe that you are with Bond in his wheels, cruising down a Jamaican road lined with hibiscus but even his writing didn’t flow quite as well as it could have had in occasional parts.

    I think Horowitz has a decent style for the modern reader of a Bond book.

    I certainly do wish though that society hadn’t changed since the “golden days”

    The answer to this has to be yes and no. PussyNoMore doubts that anybody tells Le Carre to dumb down his prose and if they did, they'd be out the door before they could say 'mine's a large one'.
    On the other hand, if Wilbur Smith or James Patterson's ghost writers arrived with anything truly literate they'd be sent out for psychiatric help.
    There are excellent writers out there; Philip Kerr, John Lawton or Alan Furst to name but three. That said, don't expect to find them in a huge heap at your local Borders or Waterstones. Albeit they all sell well.

    Yes, that’s a very good point regarding Le Carre. He’s been in it for the long haul. It’s great that they have no say in what a talented non newbie/old dog can and can’t do! :)

    I’m happy with what Horowitz is doing with Bond. He’s the right man for the job.
  • Posts: 17,759
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I'm still in the process of reading all Le Carre in order. Not even halfway.

    Same here, only that I'm not reading the books in order. Just got his new book for christmas!
  • Birdleson wrote: »
    I'm still in the process of reading all Le Carre in order. Not even halfway.

    Same here, only that I'm not reading the books in order. Just got his new book for christmas!
    Aren’t you the lucky folk. PussyNoMore wishes he was reading them all for the first time.
    Like Fleming, Le Carre is a true original and has given so much to English literature.
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