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The Good and the Bad Retcons in Movies, Television and Literature. (Potential Spoilers!)

fire_and_icefire_and_ice
edited January 2017 in General Movies & TV Posts: 6,432
I'll start with a obvious choice and a primary reason some viewers struggle with Spectre, which is retconing Bonds history with Blofeld. It just does not sit well Blofeld being Bonds foster brother, also it was obvious who Waltz was playing so the reveal fell flat and felt pointless. Bond in the film has or shows zero connection to his foster brother which makes it even worse, the whole premise opens a bad can of worms regarding Blofelds motivations as to why he does what he does. Blofeld is a character that should have mystique, we don't need know about his childhood well I don't.

Post examples of Retconing in films and television that worked or just undermined a film or series?
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Comments

  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,357
    Oh great thread! I got a good one. The retcon of how Martin Rigg's wife was killed as revealed in Lethal Weapon 2. In the first film it was simply stated she was killed in a vehicular accident. In the second film, It's revealed one of the villains was behind it because evil villains are evil. I always hated that.
  • fire_and_icefire_and_ice
    edited January 2017 Posts: 6,432
    Murdock wrote: »
    Oh great thread! I got a good one. The retcon of how Martin Rigg's wife was killed as revealed in Lethal Weapon 2. In the first film it was simply stated she was killed in a vehicular accident. In the second film, It's revealed one of the villains was behind it because evil villains are evil. I always hated that.

    Completely forgot about that, rewatched Lethal Weapon uncut version recently you are right they said very little in the first film about his wife's death.

    Highlander 2 The Immortals are really aliens, and it's bad :)) still not seen the Highlander 2 Renegade cut, they try to eliminate as much planet Zeist stuff as possible apparently.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2017 Posts: 23,883
    The one that comes to mind for me is the long running tv series, Dallas. The entire Season 9 was retconned into a dream for Season 10 onwards. The audacity! It was done because Patrick Duffy (who played Bobby Ewing) left at the end of Season 8 but then decided he wanted to return for Season 10.

    I also believe we are about to see a massive film retcon with the upcoming XXX Return of Xander Cage. Mr. Cage was supposed to have been killed but miraculously is back for the latest film!
  • fire_and_icefire_and_ice
    edited January 2017 Posts: 6,432
    I vividly remember Bobby dreaming everything in the shower, it was crazy thinking back can't remember if it was to do with Victoria Principal leaving the cast and then returning?

    Edited: Looked it up Bobby died and left, I knew someone left.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I have the entire set on dvd. I watched it many years back and think it was VIctoria Principal (who plays Pam, Bobby's wife in the show) who dreamed the whole season, allowing Duffy to make a sudden comeback!
  • fire_and_icefire_and_ice
    Posts: 6,432
    I vaguely remember Dynasty or Colbys trying to top it with an alien abduction, that was a long time ago showing my age.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2017 Posts: 23,883
    There's also the sad retcon of the Joker as the murderer of Wayne's parents in the original Burton Batman (1989) film. I never liked that & the SP shambles reminded me uncomfortably of it.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,357
    That one never really bothered me honestly. It was plausible enough. At least Bruce Wayne didn't know it was the same man who killed his parents until Joker said his "Ever Dance with the Devil in the pale moonlight?" catchphrase. It's easier to swallow than Spectre's retcon.
  • fire_and_icefire_and_ice
    Posts: 6,432
    bondjames wrote: »
    There's also the sad retcon of the Joker as the murderer of Wayne's parents in the original Burton Batman (1989) film. I never liked that & the SP shambles reminded me uncomfortably of it.

    They did that soully to have this moment...



  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    It was a cool moment for sure, but it still bothered me, as a fan of the comics.
  • fire_and_icefire_and_ice
    Posts: 6,432
    Terminator Genisys The entire running time :))
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    fire_and_ice wrote: »
    Terminator Genisys The entire running time :))
    So true! Every freaking Termi movie since T2 is a retcon!
  • fire_and_icefire_and_ice
    edited January 2017 Posts: 6,432
    And where can one possibly start with the Xmen franchise, my head hurts thinking about it.

    Professor X having a spare twin body in Xmen 3.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2017 Posts: 23,883
    Spidey 3. Uncle Ben being killed by Sandman. Yuck.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,357
    That one was really stupid.
  • fire_and_icefire_and_ice
    edited January 2017 Posts: 6,432
    Picard being Bald headed and looking like Tom Hardy in Star Trek Nemesis in his academy days, when it was already established he had a full head of hair when young in the TV show.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,357
    I like Sf Debris's idea that Picard lost a bet and had to shave his head that year. :))
  • fire_and_icefire_and_ice
    edited January 2017 Posts: 6,432
    Murdock wrote: »
    I like Sf Debris's idea that Picard lost a bet and had to shave his head that year. :))
    Ha ha Hardy looked like he lost a bet in that photo :))

    picard03.jpg

    Coulson dying in Avengers Assemble Only to be resurrected in Marvels Agents of Shield that really was a cheat to the audience and characters, apparently as far as Disney Marvel are concerned Coulson is regarded as dead.
  • Some_Kind_Of_HeroSome_Kind_Of_Hero
    Posts: 6,844
    Not film per se, but Michael Crichton retconned Ian Malcolm's death in Jurassic Park so he could appear as the protagonist in The Lost World. (Crichton in fact never had intended to do a sequel, but was "pressured" into it by Spielberg and popular demand.)

    I also fear we're about to get some serious retconning of where we left Deckard and Rachael—maybe other characters too—when Blade Runner 2049 comes out in October. That could completely kill that sequel for me.
  • fire_and_icefire_and_ice
    edited January 2017 Posts: 6,432
    Some_Kind_Of_Hero wrote: »
    Not film per se, but Michael Crichton retconned Ian Malcolm's death in Jurassic Park so he could appear as the protagonist in The Lost World. (Crichton in fact never had intended to do a sequel, but was "pressured" into it by Spielberg and popular demand.)

    I also fear we're about to get some serious retconning of where we left Deckard and Rachael—maybe other characters too—when Blade Runner 2049 comes out in October. That could completely kill that sequel for me.
    Interesting I never read Crichton's novel I did not know Golblums character was supposed to die, would certainly have given the end more dramatic edge.
  • Some_Kind_Of_HeroSome_Kind_Of_Hero
    Posts: 6,844
    It wasn't a particularly dramatic death. He dies from his wounds that had been inflicted by the rex in the tour attack. For the film Spielberg was making it's much better I think that Malcolm survived.

    Another possible future retcon could be Blomenkamp's Aliens sequel if it ever gets made. Michael Biehn's Hicks is clearly shown to have died in Alien 3, so if Blomenkamp brings back Hicks (not to mention a non-clone Ripley) it will be interesting to see how he spins it.
  • fire_and_icefire_and_ice
    Posts: 6,432
    Blomenkamp's Aliens sequel will certainly fall into the good retcon category, was disappointed it was pushed back by Ridley Scotts sequel prequel. Alien 3 alternate cut was interesting felt it was better than the theatrical version, though the film could not bounce back from killing of Hicks and Newt. The face hugger being on board the escape pod was retcon in itself, a way to bring Hicks and Ripley back being older could be a malfunction with the cryo stasis tubes.
  • Some_Kind_Of_HeroSome_Kind_Of_Hero
    Posts: 6,844
    Very true about the eggs being onboard the Sulaco being a retcon of sorts. That's information not present in Aliens that we're meant to believe somehow happened during the climax of Aliens.

    I've personally always enjoyed Alien 3 immensely and thought killing off Hicks and Newt was a particularly bold choice and perfectly in keeping with the film's dark and despairing tone. That's why I'm interested to see whether Blomenkamp ignores Alien 3 completely (likely) or comes up with some other solution (who knows what?).
  • fire_and_icefire_and_ice
    Posts: 6,432

    The alternate version of Alien 3 played into the despair and I liked the religious aspects that were added, the Xenomorph being death coming for those that had sinned. Lance Hendrickson was good also in the small role he played at the end.

    I recall Prometheus was originally said to be the first of three films though unsure if that's still the case, so not sure when Aliens sequel would start production. If Blomenkamp's Aliens sequel goes ahead they will probably dismiss the last two Aliens films entirely, it may come across cheap if they were portrayed them as a cryogenic dream... Though they may leave that open for the audience to make up there own mind regarding that.
  • Some_Kind_Of_HeroSome_Kind_Of_Hero
    Posts: 6,844
    Yes, I agree with you—they will likely ignore 3 and Resurrection completely and pick up where Aliens left off. Again, if and when the project comes to fruition. That's up to Ridley.
  • fire_and_icefire_and_ice
    edited January 2017 Posts: 6,432
    Final Problem Sherlock Holmes Dies at reichenbach falls, Doyle killed off Holmes for good though due to fan pressure resurrected Sherlock, some great stories followed so for me fits into the good retcon category... Stating the obvious.
  • Some_Kind_Of_HeroSome_Kind_Of_Hero
    Posts: 6,844
    From Russia With Love for that matter! I'm sure we're all familiar with how Fleming considered leaving Bond dead at that point.
  • fire_and_icefire_and_ice
    Posts: 6,432
    @Some_Kind_Of_Hero thankfully it never came to pass.

    In Smallville Doomsday and Clark in season 8 came down to earth in the same pod, terrible idea terrible season.
  • Some_Kind_Of_HeroSome_Kind_Of_Hero
    Posts: 6,844
    fire_and_ice wrote: »
    In Smallville Doomsday and Clark in season 8 came down to earth in the same pod, terrible idea terrible season.

    Oh yeah, I remember that! I thought it was already just far enough to retcon young Lex and Lionel at Clark's cornfield arrival (Season 3ish maybe?), but putting Doomsday there too was just too much. TV shows like that do a pretty hefty amount of retconning. I'm sure there are several other examples in Smallville alone.
  • fire_and_icefire_and_ice
    Posts: 6,432
    Some_Kind_Of_Hero wrote: »
    fire_and_ice wrote: »
    In Smallville Doomsday and Clark in season 8 came down to earth in the same pod, terrible idea terrible season.

    Oh yeah, I remember that! I thought it was already just far enough to retcon young Lex and Lionel at Clark's cornfield arrival (Season 3ish maybe?), but putting Doomsday there too was just too much. TV shows like that do a pretty hefty amount of retconning. I'm sure there are several other examples in Smallville alone.

    Prime example of inferior writers coming in and messing up a previous retcon, thankfully season 9 was very good.

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