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  • GerardGerard
    Posts: 5,993
    Not so odd. After all, over the decades, the US has supported dictators the world over. Right-wing dictators, of course : Videla, Pinochet, Papa Doc Duvalier, Franco, to name but a few.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,798
    Gerard wrote: »
    Not so odd. After all, over the decades, the US has supported dictators the world over. Right-wing dictators, of course : Videla, Pinochet, Papa Doc Duvalier, Franco, to name but a few.

    My country has always been heavily 'right.' When it swings briefly to the middle the authoritarian morons cry 'Socialist!!!'
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited June 2018 Posts: 12,480
    Good point, @chrisisall. Left of center at all and you get called "socialist" which many also lead to say "commie" .... lots of fear driving many Americans, I am sorry to say.

    Anyway, the debate about how Trump will rate as president can be delayed surely. There are current pressing matters. People are taking a stand. Laura Bush and others, not only Democrats. Wheels need to turn quicker, but the pace is picking up. A shame that this horrid situation with immigration and children is what it has taken to finally shake up (into action) the majority of people in my country.

    Now we have some audio, too. Here you go:
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    Even today, Trump STILL claims the separation of kids from their families is a Democrat issue. Holy hell.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited June 2018 Posts: 12,480
    Yes, that is a complete lie. You can see the war with media so clearly now - he lies about almost everything and finally, FINALLY more reporters are stating those as lies, not just "falsehoods" etc. But he is doing all of that for reasons to protect himself. He is under serious criminal investigation, as are his older children. I still have faith in our system. We are finally getting somewhere, but sure I wish it were faster. Trump's loyalties are not with America.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    That's something else I've noticed for a while (lie vs. mistruth/falsehood), but apparently the reason for that is it's a legal issue, as stating it's a "lie" means he knows what he's saying is false - it's HIGHLY probable that he knows most of the trash he spews is a lie, but it's not as easy to prove in court if someone was sued for labeling it as such. But as you said, more and more are lining up to call them lies; about damn time, too. Proven or not, there's no way he's that clueless. You don't get the luxury of ignorance when you're POTUS.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    I understand being careful about legal issues, but this is way past that point (and has been). So I can say I am encouraged these days, in spite of the horrid actions of the Trump administration (which is gutting us).
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    Agreed. It needs to be mentioned every time, and as I said you don't get to feign ignorance as POTUS with the entire team he has at his disposal. He's noted the "Democrats are responsible for this" excuse a good 10 times in the last few weeks, so he knows what he is doing.
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,467
    I hate Trump, but it is true the media can be biased and EXTREMELY PC sometimes. They’ll be so quick to shout “racist!” or “sexist” or “homophobe!”, sometimes in justified circumstances, and sometimes just because they like to stir more drama and make the problem worse than it is. I recognize racism, sexism, and homophobia are still problems in the US, but I just cannot stand when the media jumps to those conclusions when they’re not really applicable.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited June 2018 Posts: 12,480
    There are plenty of times that "PC" is applicable and I would rather err in that direction than the reverse. I find the bleating about "too PC" not allowed because of "PC" to be more distracting and annoying than relevant at times (not looking specifically at you, @FoxRox; I am saying in general). Both can be bandwagons jumped on and pushed at the wrong times. I just read with my eyes and mind open.

    The media has a lot of faults, and there is plenty of blame to go around, especially 2013/2015 till now. But citizens are speaking up - we still have that freedom, thankfully, and there is a bit more relevancy and balance now. A bit. It's tipping in a more accurate fashion lately, in my opinion.

    And no, I don't blame MSM (that dear acronym) for everything. I read a lot of alternate sources, too. We need to hold all reporters and media accountable. Our democracy depends upon that, too. Many factors are vital.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited June 2018 Posts: 12,480
    Interesting - this was a step by step process by the Trump administration. Chipping away, eroding the Flores Agreement (to protect immigrant children) strikes at the heart of the matter, planned carefully. This administration feels that separating kids from parents would be a great "deterrent".
    Click into it to read all.
    Some of it says:

    Since the late 1990s, the terms of Flores got shored up and strengthened, through a 2008 law and subsequent direction from the courts. To those in the Admin who advocate separation of families, putting an end to these protections was a priority, too.

    Stephen Miller, Gene Hamilton, Jeff Sessions—they all thought that ending these protections would discourage families and kids from migrating north to seek asylum. Without Flores, etc, kids could be held in detention longer, under tougher conditions.

    Family separation. Curbing asylum (e.g. sessions’ decision last week). Chipping away at Flores. All are of a piece.

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,798
    I agree with almost 103% of everything you post, my dear 4Ever....
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Well, we can see the video of this performance or read the full Q&A later.
    DHS Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen is now on tv defending the Trump policies regarding separating children from parents and how the children are treated.

    Many people are saying (yeah, I did go there) that she is spouting one lie or "false claim" after another. But read full text later and decide for yourself, of course.








  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,255
    Looking at Foxnews website now. Is it just me or are there only two little horns missing on that picture of Jeff Sessions? They're now blaming it on Obama. Fantastic rethoric. Whenever you're blamed for something, it's Obama's fault (even though everyone knows it isn't). But when it's economy (the rise now, let's see when the crisis sets in later in the year), it's Trump.

    Don't worry, it'll be the Best Crisis Ever. Just like these are the Best Cages Ever they're using for these kids.

  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    All they need now is lynch mob out to get the gangly black guy with the nice wife and kids - they're always to blame!
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    CommanderRoss wrote: »
    Looking at Foxnews website now. Is it just me or are there only two little horns missing on that picture of Jeff Sessions? They're now blaming it on Obama. Fantastic rethoric. Whenever you're blamed for something, it's Obama's fault (even though everyone knows it isn't). But when it's economy (the rise now, let's see when the crisis sets in later in the year), it's Trump.

    Don't worry, it'll be the Best Crisis Ever. Just like these are the Best Cages Ever they're using for these kids.

    Well of course, that's the way of this administration: anything bad is the result of Obama and/or Democrats in Congress, anything positive is solely because of Trump.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,798
    Make America Gag Again.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    The information given, that isn t reported on:

    10 000 of the 12 000 minors had entered alone.

    Several of the others had entered with human smugglers, and been separated from them to protect the kids.

    Others had parents who were arrested for illegalities, or were taken from their parents because they had been put in danger. The kids aren t living in cages. They are given health care, education and help to reunite with relatives, or placed in foster homes.

    No one who entered legally and could demonstrate their family relations were separated.

    Judging by the spin given to this, it s like Holocaust all over again.
  • jobojobo
    Posts: 7,507
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    The information given, that isn t reported on:

    10 000 of the 12 000 minors had entered alone.

    Several of the others had entered with human smugglers, and been separated from them to protect the kids.

    Others had parents who were arrested for illegalities, or were taken from their parents because they had been put in danger. The kids aren t living in cages. They are given health care, education and help to reunite with relatives, or placed in foster homes.

    No one who entered legally and could demonstrate their family relations were separated.

    Judging by the spin given to this, it s like Holocaust all over again.


    What is your source on this?
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    The White House press briefing. Maybe it s all lies?
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    edited June 2018 Posts: 40,968
    There have been a few proven instances of separating kids in a legal situation that didn't involve an illegal immigrant, actually. It's quite uncommon thankfully, but it has occurred.

    EDIT: Edited for clarity.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,798
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    The White House press briefing. Maybe it s all lies?
    Every press briefing is all lies. That you use anything that comes from them shows your complete misunderstanding of the meaning of the word "fact."
  • jobojobo
    Posts: 7,507
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    The White House press briefing. Maybe it s all lies?


    Haha. Well that explain it...
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I can t know for sure, but I found it quite convincing. You know something I don t ?
  • BeatlesSansEarmuffsBeatlesSansEarmuffs
    Posts: 3,566
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    The information given, that isn t reported on:

    10 000 of the 12 000 minors had entered alone.

    Several of the others had entered with human smugglers, and been separated from them to protect the kids.

    Others had parents who were arrested for illegalities, or were taken from their parents because they had been put in danger. The kids aren t living in cages. They are given health care, education and help to reunite with relatives, or placed in foster homes.

    No one who entered legally and could demonstrate their family relations were separated.

    Judging by the spin given to this, it s like Holocaust all over again.

    Judging by the spin YOU'RE giving this, they're all at summer camp.
  • BeatlesSansEarmuffsBeatlesSansEarmuffs
    Posts: 3,566
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    The White House press briefing. Maybe it s all lies?

    DJT is the lyingest individual to ever walk the face of the Earth. You think maybe his press briefings might contain a lie or twelve?
  • BeatlesSansEarmuffsBeatlesSansEarmuffs
    Posts: 3,566
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    I can t know for sure, but I found it quite convincing. You know something I don t ?

    I know that you're trying to justify something that can't be justified. Most of the time it seems to me that you're just being a smart aleck. This shouldn't be one of those times.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    I transcribe most of those daily press briefings, and I can say with confidence that I wouldn't look too heavily into those for confirmations of anything. Most of the time, SHS deflects, scolds individuals for their questions, and tiptoes around answers. It's the biggest waste of time, and I'm not sure why they even bother anymore. Hell, they can't even do them on time, and the briefings have gotten shorter and shorter since the start of this administration. It couldn't be more obvious how little they care - they see the media as their enemy.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    That doesn t answer anything at all, that s just hot air. Our own State Propaganda channel showed a minute long clip, and claimed asylum seeker families were broken up. They are always lying through their teeth. The press briefing was not with Trump, but with someone in charge and in the know.
    I tried uploading the Youtube link here, but it won t show, so here is a transcript for those who bother reading it.
    https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/press-briefing-press-secretary-sarah-sanders-department-homeland-security-secretary-kirstjen-nielsen-061818/
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    I do it for work, I can't spend any amount of free time reading through anything SHS has to say. My hatred for that woman is astoundingly large. I've heard rumors of her and Raj Shah exiting by the end of the year - a man can dream.
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