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  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Oh that's such a good point, @Thundfinger, and sounds so simple and basic. But it is not.

    Actually, constructive dialog is always considered a good thing for presidents to do. Putin and his govt are a known long-time adversary of the U.S.; not an ally.
    Former presidents have been careful when dealing with, talking to, engaging with known adversaries of our country. They have also kept a distance from and careful in their words regarding dictators or other countries, regimes that have massive human rights violations, things like that (one example: Duerte).

    All we have learned about Trump as president, all we have learned about Putin's ideas concerning the U.S. and Europe as well ... that does not point to this being a chat where we can become friends and have a cohesive, mutually beneficial plan of action for our future. It doesn't. Trump was all for lifting sanctions against Russia even before he was sworn in.

    I am not against communication, but I am sure that this upcoming meeting will not stand firmly in America's interest, nor anybody's interest in the world except Putin.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I applaud the fact that the summit actually managed to be organized and pulled off, but past that, there's really nothing to pat his back over. We got absolutely nothing out of it, just a photo op of the two to make him look like he actually accomplished something.

    I agree, but Obama was lauded and cheered at for his Iran deal, which was different how?
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    barryt007 wrote: »
    I'm off on an indefinate hiatus chaps so if the title needs updating then remind a mod to do it...cheers all.

    What for? I hope it s pleasure, and nothing wrong?
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    I do not applaud the NK summit. It should not have happened. It automatically handed Kim Jong-un the recognition he has craved, on the world stage as an equal, or near equal administration just by having that summit. NK scored on that point alone. So, no, I am not happy there was a NK summit.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I do not applaud the NK summit. It should not have happened. It automatically handed Kim Jong-un the recognition he has craved, on the world stage as an equal, or near equal administration just by having that summit. NK scored on that point alone. So, no, I am not happy there was a NK summit.

    What was the alternative? Sanctions going on forever, or perhaps war?
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited June 2018 Posts: 12,480
    War, no. Alternative was to keep sanctions, yes - their human rights violations are some of the worst on this planet. Private communication possibly; to the point where there would be any chance of realistic action from NK. This summit was just a public stage event that gave all the bonuses to NK, in my opinion.

    North Korea and South Korea are making smaller but definite positive steps themselves, to somewhat alleviate the threat of war (bear with me, it is ongoing) totally aside from Trump and the summit. Nobody wants war there, which would guarantee millions in South Korea killed, no matter how swift retaliation came.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    @barryt007 I hope you have a very enjoyable break. Look forward to your return.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,009
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I applaud the fact that the summit actually managed to be organized and pulled off, but past that, there's really nothing to pat his back over. We got absolutely nothing out of it, just a photo op of the two to make him look like he actually accomplished something.

    I agree, but Obama was lauded and cheered at for his Iran deal, which was different how?

    He's no longer the President, though. He wasn't perfect, no President is, but he was a hell of a lot better than who we have now.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    And Iran was complying, by the way, according to numerous reports.
    Anyway, we have to deal with the present situations and too much "What about this ...?" comparisons are fine for later discussions if you want to, but do not usually further the current focus (most "whatabout"ism chat distracts).
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,823
    And Iran was complying, by the way, according to numerous reports.
    TND sort of predicted Trump, except that Elliot never used his wealth to become POTUS...
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Interesting. :) I think Elliot was a successful businessman, though.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,823
    Interesting. :) I think Elliot was a successful businessman, though.
    LOL!! Therein lies the difference! ;)
  • Seven_Point_Six_FiveSeven_Point_Six_Five Southern California
    Posts: 1,257
    chrisisall wrote: »
    I ask for your thoughts now.

    I think there is too much focus on the weapons, and not enough on the offender. Remove assault weapons from the equation, the offender will use a non-AW semi auto rifle. Remove non-AW semi auto rifles from the equation, the offender will use a handgun. Remove handguns from the equation, the offender will use a pipe bomb. Remove explosives from the equation, the offender run down people in a truck.

    The root of the issue is the person committing the crime, but we ignore them. You mention known violent criminals and mental health. THAT is what I feel needs to be addressed. Whether its marginalized youths, extremist views, antisocial and asocial tendencies, repeat offending, hyper political beliefs, and so on, the warning signs are often there. We need to raise the standard of how we respond to these people. Parents, friends, teachers, coworkers, and even law enforcement sometimes see the signs but fail to act.
    chrisisall wrote: »
    And how you see no rhyme or reason to my suggestions. Seriously.

    Seriously, for example...
    chrisisall wrote: »
    NO open carry.

    How does this reduce mass shootings?
    chrisisall wrote: »
    NO concealed carry for off duty officials or civvies (without special permit) .

    How does this reduce mass shootings?
    chrisisall wrote: »
    De-militarize local police forces.

    How does this reduce mass shootings?
    chrisisall wrote: »
    NO military styled weapons for civvie ownership.

    What is the definition of military style weapons. Fully automatic, semi automatic, appearance and cosmetic features, caliber, manufacturer? Are you simply referring to assault weapons? Then what is the definition of an assault weapon?

    What happens with these weapons that are currently owned? Confiscation? Buyback?
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Background checks on EVERYONE purchasing weapons or ammo.

    You may or may not be surprised to find many gun owners will agree that all firearm purchases should require background checks. However, majority of purchases already do require background checks anyway. ALL purchases from gun stores and FFL dealers (including online sales and gun shows) require background checks.

    I feel like too many people believe that there is a gaping loophole that countless people are exploiting allowing for background-check-free sales. I imagine a lot of this idea comes from the phrase "gun show loophole". This term has nothing to do with gun shows and everything to do with private party firearm sales. Person-A can sell Person-B a firearm, without a background check, so long as the seller doesn't knowingly sell to someone who does not reside in the same state or is a prohibited person. You want that to end? Change your verbiage from "gun show loophole" to "private party sales".

    Additionally, several states require all private party firearm sales to be conducted though FFl dealers. Many gun owners, however, would be willing to perform checks themselves if the background system was made available to private persons. Only FFL holders have access the NICS background check system.

    I guarantee gun owners will not support ammo background checks though.
    chrisisall wrote: »
    National database for violent nuts.

    There already is a database of persons who are prohibited from owning firearms. What there needs to be is a better reporting habits between local law enforcement and federal agencies for mental health and 5150 matters. This reporting system already exists but needs more focus since agencies aren’t required to report this information.
    chrisisall wrote: »
    NO same day purchase for firearms at all.

    At all? So... waiting periods then, but how long? Waiting periods are often referred to as “cooling off” periods to allow someone to come to there senses before committing a violent act, but what about people who already own guns? Do they need to wait?
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Limits on ammo amount purchased per month, gun purchase per year.

    So what kind of quantities are we talking here? How could this even be enforced?
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited June 2018 Posts: 12,480
    Why would there be any reason for open carry? I don't see it.
    I am thinking of regular public contact, not hunting.
  • Seven_Point_Six_FiveSeven_Point_Six_Five Southern California
    Posts: 1,257
    Why would there be any reason for open carry? I don't see it.
    I am thinking of regular public contact, not hunting.

    As far as I am concerned, none.

    However, I know it was frequently done as an only option for someone to carry a handgun for self defense. Many counties have restrictive “good cause” requirements for concealed carry applicants, so many would resort to open carry which often was not restricted.

    The main reason people open carry now days though it is for political statements or attention seeking. From what I’ve seen, gun owners generally hate open carriers and open carry in general.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Our states have their own laws, some differ.
    I do want stricter gun laws, across the board, nation-wide. Some progress may be made, but that is all really an uphill struggle, I'm sorry to say.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,823
    @Seven_Point_Six_Five, formatting so I can deal with it more easily...
    How does this reduce mass shootings?
    NO open carry. It advertises a gun culture and make gun violence seem more normal to a nut.
    NO concealed carry for off duty officials or civvies (without special permit). It reduces the idea that everyone is armed 24/7. See above.
    De-militarize local police forces. Reduces the need for nuts to feel armed because of living in what appears to be an occupied country.
    NO military styled weapons for civvie ownership. Reduces the idea that war is cool, and firepower will save you when the chips are down like in the movies. Note: this mainly refers to style as full autos are not legal.
    The rest is kind of not so important I guess. A 'cooling off' period of like maybe a week. Can you wait a week? If not then maybe you're a nut. I wait a week or more for a comic book or model I want desperately that I order online.

    Thanks for your serious response to my serious interest in your opinion. Maybe we aren't so far apart in our views. Well, at least not as much as you & I might have thought at first. ;)
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    You really couldn't make this stuff up.
    I laughed, although the actual actions of this administration and this new act they would love to pass are a very serious concern.



  • Posts: 6,017
    How could noone in the process of drafting that bill see how unfortunate the anagram would be ?
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    They are blind. Focused only on their dream.
    I have no idea.
    I think things are not really thoroughly read, and certainly not proofed.
  • According to the White House, this bill is "not actual legislation that the administration was preparing to roll out." So maybe it's just designed to keep our attention off what's REALLY going on... misdirection taken to the level of an adolescent joke.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,009
    'The FART Act: silent but deadly.'
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,074
    Gerard wrote: »
    How could noone in the process of drafting that bill see how unfortunate the anagram would be ?
    What do you expect from the GLOAT (Greatest Leader of All Time)?
  • edited July 2018 Posts: 3,566
    As I've already said: misdirection going on, people. Don't look at the sneaky stuff we're doing over HERE, look only at the silly stuff that we're making obvious.

    https://www.salon.com/2018/07/02/its-not-about-the-money-donald-trump-anthony-kennedy-and-the-kid-at-deutsche-bank/

    A brief excerpt from the linked article: "What started the speculation about dirty money connecting Trump, Kennedy and his son is the revelation that Kennedy and Trump have had a longstanding relationship through their children and their children’s success. We knew about Trump’s dealings with Deutsche Bank, the only bank willing to do business with him. (It’s also, perhaps not coincidentally, the bank that seems to have the longest illegal relationship with laundered Russian money. In January 2017, it was fined $425 million by New York regulators to settle allegations that it helped Russian investors launder as much as $10 billion through its branches in Moscow, New York and London.) But we’re just finding out about the Trump relationship with Justin Kennedy, the justice’s son, who worked at Deutsche Bank for a decade."

    FART is just silly stuff intended to take our minds off the Supreme Court justice who had once been a conscientious swing vote, but now is a reliable vote for the Trump-side. Suddenly he may be forced to recuse himself from the question of whether or not a sitting President can pardon himself -- so he needs to be replaced NOW, by a dependable vote for the Dark Side, before the November elections. Start paying attention to the man behind the curtain, damn it -- he's not just a cute, harmless humbug.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,823
    Sooooo.... it seems that Michael Cohen will spill the beans on Don. Oooops! He's got state charges that Trump cannot pardon him on. No incentive for loyalty here. Let's make a deal!
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,328
    Why would there be any reason for open carry? I don't see it.
    I am thinking of regular public contact, not hunting.

    As far as I am concerned, none.

    However, I know it was frequently done as an only option for someone to carry a handgun for self defense. Many counties have restrictive “good cause” requirements for concealed carry applicants, so many would resort to open carry which often was not restricted.

    The main reason people open carry now days though it is for political statements or attention seeking. From what I’ve seen, gun owners generally hate open carriers and open carry in general.
    Let me just make things very easy for you, as the only country not to understand the basics of the violence monopoly with the government is the USA. The only country with regular mass shootings.

    1. When you're not allowed to openly or concealed to carry guns unless you're going to a firing range/ shooting club, police can and will stop anyone who's carrying a gun. Hence the chance of a shooter ending up at his destination with a gun is a lot smaller.

    The prohibition of semi-automatic and automatic weapons will stop the 'mass' shootings, as with a handgun it's far more difficult to kill 'masses'. compare the Las Vegas shooting to the recent Austen-one and you might get the picture.

    Background checks don't consist of 'filling out a form', but of matching all government databases and seeing if you don't have any health issues. In my country it takes a year, and you have to be a consistent member of a shooting club to be allowed to own a gun.

    But why not take over the Swiss laws? They have a lot of guns in the country and no mass shootings?
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    White House spokesperson has an answer re current North Korea actions vs. summit goals:
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,009
    Haha, that's just par for the course for SHS; I'd be shocked if she said anything but that. Easily my least favorite human being.
  • Looks like this thread has been slipping down the list. Time to stir things up. Is it possible Russian activity swayed the Brexit vote as well as the U.S. Presidential election? https://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/evidence-mounts-russia-covertly-swayed-brexit-just-us-election
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,823
    I took that as a given.
This discussion has been closed.