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  • Escalus5 wrote: »
    @Escalus, you'll get a more thorough response later. Quickly stated: Thanks for at least acknowledging that the suspect's soda-throwing, hat-snatching tactics were "understandable." And I'm sure I've made a mistake or two in my time as well. Being wrong occasionally is just part of the human condition. You insist that you're not a racist; fine, I'll take your word for that. You're just defending and enabling racists.

    No, I'm not. I pointed out that the story had been revised to remove the quotes, which would logically put the claims of the anonymous witness in doubt, and you got out of line. You're still out of line, but you're trying to be cute about it.

    Well, as you said, we'll wait and see what happens with this investigation.
    As I've said: more to come on that topic. I'm sure you can hardly wait. But seriously now: what in the world makes you think you have the right to tell @chrisisall to "mind your own business"? This is an open topic thread, not a private discussion. Why would you tell chris to MYOB but remain silent at Thundy's interjections? Couldn't be that you feel Thundy is taking your side so that's okay, but chris is taking mine and we can't have that -- could it? Nah, of course not.

    Chrisisall is welcome to post whatever he wants. I already wrote "tension defused" to let him know I wasn't being serious. You apparently missed that.

    As for Thunderfinger, there is no taking sides. Typically I ignore his posts, mostly because I can't figure out if he's on the level or trolling.

    The quotes are removed, but the article still makes it clear that according to the witness, race-related comments were the spark the started the confrontation. As far as I'm concerted, the main point of the article is still in effect and if you want to insist that it isn't, we'll just have to disagree. My link to the article itself is still there, anyone who wants to judge for themselves is welcome to do so.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,795
    For the record here, Trump is no Hitler. But he's pushing along pretty hard in that direction. I'd say, he's like Nazi Lite, less deadly but same great taste.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    edited July 2018 Posts: 16,351
    So Chris, you're saying he's like Melakon? Star Trek fans will only get that reference.
    400px-STTOSS2E17_13.jpg
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited July 2018 Posts: 17,795
    Murdock wrote: »
    So Chris, you're saying he's like Melakon? Star Trek fans will only get that reference.
    400px-STTOSS2E17_13.jpg

    Well, he's not as smart, and not so ruthless... yet.... but it's a similar experiment that's being enacted.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited July 2018 Posts: 12,480
    Just waking up. Ok, lemme see...

    ~ Trump's private chat with Putin on the 16th will go swimmingly according to all the involved parties there. Chummy and nice, helping each other. Maybe they will sing that kindergarten classic "The More We Get Together." Whatever happens, there will be special photo ops for sure.
    ~ Also, at least we got clarity from Trump that Putin is of course KGB and "... Putin is fine. He's fine. We are all fine, we're all people" - that's a relief, so now I can relax.
    ~ Trump continues rally to keep his base happy and try out new talking points to see what will shtick. Oh this is an apt point:

    What else?
    ~ Manafort is in solitary confinement. All the tiny violins in the world playing just for him right now.
    ~ Detained immigrant children NOT being reunited with parents in any sort of timely way (not even by court order) and that process is still an unruly, disorganized, uncaring* mess. Sigh ...
    But hey, our politicians are keeping their chin up anyway.
    ~ Senators cavorted in Russia on the Fourth of July. Nothing to see there; move along.
    ~ And jolly good! The pomp! The fun! Trump will be in London Scotland and other parts of UK soon. :) Avoiding London now due to, well, you know:


    ~ AND Belgium beat Brazil! I've always loved Brazil, but I'm thrilled for Belgium. :)

    * "uncaring" being the blandest word I can use because, really, I'll just state it again: This is this administration's immoral abuse of these children and their parents.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    I like this. :) From Finnish Library Association:
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,795
    I like this. :) From Finnish Library Association:

    Awesome.
  • To those who care: thanks for your patience while I’ve taken the time to compose this post regarding the MAGA hat incident and the context in which it occurred. During much of the working week I simply haven’t the time to post detailed reports on complicated topics. In such moments, I’ll occasionally give quick, off-the-cuff statements, sometimes humorously intended and sometimes not, and more often than I’d like these turn out not to include the background for some of my reasoning. That’s my mistake and as a human being I do make mistakes from time to time, my apologies here & now for such moments.

    I take it for granted that anybody who’s actually been watching the state of American politics has to conclude that Donald Trump simply isn’t a good President for the USA. Rather than bringing our divided populace together, he actively works to further those divisions. I’ll leave aside for the time being the members of his campaign and cabinet that are in jail or under investigation; I’ll likewise make no comment at this time on his trade war, his questionable deference to Vlad Putin, and his antagonistic attitudes towards long-time American allies. What is pertinent for this particular topic is his clearly racist behavior and how it had exacerbated racism in the USA today.

    Trump and his father pled No Contest to federal charges of racial bias in their rental practices back in the 1970s. This is a simple matter of public record. He began his campaign for President with racist signals front & center: Mexican immigrants were racists and drug dealers, all Muslims were potential terrorists and needed to be banned from entering the country. Even before running for President he was actively stoking the racist impulses of those so inclined with his birther campaign against then-President Barack Obama. During Trump’s presidency, racially-motivated incidents have increased substantially. Recently, incidents have occurred with normal citizens voicing their displeasure over the state of things directly to members of the Trump administration -- specifically to Sarah Huckabee Sanders and Scott Pruitt. Some folks bemoan the decline in civility that these incidents indicate. Others reply that Trump himself is the prime culprit for the loss of civility in current public discourse, so what it good for the goose is good for the gander. This is the context in which the Whattaburger/MAGA hat incident occurred. I’d also like to mention the advent of “Fake News,” with Trump simply denouncing any report that displeases him as lies by a media that hates him. Again, this is an ironic position for him to take, as impartial sources regarding veracity (and the lack of same) in public discourse all verify that Trump is one of the most active sources of falsehood in politics today. In tandem with Fox News, of course.

    Please forgive me if I’m telling you stuff that you already know. But these are all contributing factors to the Whattaburger incident. Now, to make this matter even more complicated than is already the case -- I have posted a link to a local news report indicating that the WB incident, far from being an unprovoked assault by an evil left-wing extremist on some patriotic children this past July 4th, was actually an unfortunate but understandable response by a Mexican-American to a batch of idiot teenagers voicing their fantasized desire to lynch non-whites as a wholly unsupportable way of celebrating this nation’s founding. Another member of this forum has noted that the article I referenced has since been edited, indicating that some local voices dispute this particular account of the Whattaburger incident, and insisting that this edit makes the initial position of the article in question (and thus my own suggestion that there’s more to this incident than meets the eye) entirely invalid.

    I disagree. I think there’s very clearly a racial aspect to this incident -- and further, I would suggest that any attempt to invalidate the racial underpinnings of this incident must be either racially or politically motivated. But hey! --if you need to have a current news article quoting the (still trying to stay anonymous out of what I think is a justifiable fear of reprisal) witness in question regarding these teenagers’ reprehensible remarks -- then here: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny-news-whataburger-maga-attack-20180706-story.html As I’ve said at least once before in this discussion, the truth will eventually be told. Let it be told completely, and soon.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Stupid teenagers need to be educated, not assaulted.
  • Stupid teenagers need to be educated, not assaulted.

    While in my own daily life education would be the preferred path, sometimes the knowledge that "Saying stupid stuff in public can earn you an ass-whoopin" is the best form of education.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited July 2018 Posts: 12,480
    I will not address this particular event, but let me say this ...
    In general - I think there are plenty of statements and actions by Trump and his administration that demonstrate a racist bias and that are encouraging racism and bigotry; and that does bring about more violence at times, along with a building of hate spewing out into the open. Beyond sad to see this happening at the top level of govt in my country, but it started during Trump's campaign ('Oh he doesn't mean it' I read more than a few people saying at that time, brushing that aspect of his rhetoric off) and that has all now ratcheted up. Step by step, layer by layer, appointment by appointment, Trump's words and attitudes, the policies he pushes. So many subtle and not so subtle nods to white supremacy are ongoing (Stephen Miller is still part of this administration, helping write policies and speeches, for just one undeniable example).

    Keep in mind Bannon's goal is to tear down our entire system, to create chaos, to have our citizens at each other's throats, to destroy our democracy. I am not really exaggerating; you can read Bannon's own words. Trump has embraced much of this - look at who he appoints to various role; people who at best will ill serve that particular department they are now suddenly in charge of, or who at worst will try to destroy it. Scott Pruitt being only one recent example. Betsy DeVos another fine example. It is poison at the top (more than mere incompetence) causing rot and chaos as quickly as possible. Yes, it is that dramatic in the U.S. right now.

    Therefore, overall, racist and violent events will continue to grow in the U.S. - because of course the current administration does influence our culture. And the majority of citizens, I do believe, do not want that at all.

    There are many examples and incidents, but I am not going to put out more on this particular subject at this time. Analyzing one particular incident provides perhaps more clarity for that one event.

    But I am asking us to please keep informed (variety of sources) and stay aware of what is happening across our country, more than focusing on one incident. We all need to be aware, speak up, do not accept any of this as normal or acceptable.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited July 2018 Posts: 12,480
    No surprise here. And Trump's gift of Elton's CD w/ "Rocket Man" (signed by Trump, of course) does not seem to have helped either.

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited July 2018 Posts: 17,795
    Stupid teenagers need to be educated, not assaulted.

    Okay, two points here.
    1) Some stupid teens need to be directly confronted with a 'presence attack' (Role-play term) to BE educated.
    2) If anyone considers this act by this admittedly over-reacting dude 'assault' then they have never been violently mugged or had to physically repel an attack by serious jerks.

    Just sayin' is all.
  • Posts: 7,507
    The day the Republicans take school shootings as seriously as minor physical attacks against Trump supporters, we might see some progress.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,795
    jobo wrote: »
    The day the Republicans take school shootings as seriously as minor physical attacks against Trump supporters, we might see some progress.

    Holding my breath... turning.... blue.....
  • edited July 2018 Posts: 628
    To those who care: thanks for your patience while I’ve taken the time to compose this post regarding the MAGA hat incident and the context in which it occurred. During much of the working week I simply haven’t the time to post detailed reports on complicated topics. In such moments, I’ll occasionally give quick, off-the-cuff statements, sometimes humorously intended and sometimes not, and more often than I’d like these turn out not to include the background for some of my reasoning. That’s my mistake and as a human being I do make mistakes from time to time, my apologies here & now for such moments.

    I take it for granted that anybody who’s actually been watching the state of American politics has to conclude that Donald Trump simply isn’t a good President for the USA. Rather than bringing our divided populace together, he actively works to further those divisions. I’ll leave aside for the time being the members of his campaign and cabinet that are in jail or under investigation; I’ll likewise make no comment at this time on his trade war, his questionable deference to Vlad Putin, and his antagonistic attitudes towards long-time American allies. What is pertinent for this particular topic is his clearly racist behavior and how it had exacerbated racism in the USA today.

    Trump and his father pled No Contest to federal charges of racial bias in their rental practices back in the 1970s. This is a simple matter of public record. He began his campaign for President with racist signals front & center: Mexican immigrants were racists and drug dealers, all Muslims were potential terrorists and needed to be banned from entering the country. Even before running for President he was actively stoking the racist impulses of those so inclined with his birther campaign against then-President Barack Obama. During Trump’s presidency, racially-motivated incidents have increased substantially. Recently, incidents have occurred with normal citizens voicing their displeasure over the state of things directly to members of the Trump administration -- specifically to Sarah Huckabee Sanders and Scott Pruitt. Some folks bemoan the decline in civility that these incidents indicate. Others reply that Trump himself is the prime culprit for the loss of civility in current public discourse, so what it good for the goose is good for the gander. This is the context in which the Whattaburger/MAGA hat incident occurred. I’d also like to mention the advent of “Fake News,” with Trump simply denouncing any report that displeases him as lies by a media that hates him. Again, this is an ironic position for him to take, as impartial sources regarding veracity (and the lack of same) in public discourse all verify that Trump is one of the most active sources of falsehood in politics today. In tandem with Fox News, of course.

    We're in agreement here.
    Please forgive me if I’m telling you stuff that you already know. But these are all contributing factors to the Whattaburger incident. Now, to make this matter even more complicated than is already the case -- I have posted a link to a local news report indicating that the WB incident, far from being an unprovoked assault by an evil left-wing extremist on some patriotic children this past July 4th, was actually an unfortunate but understandable response by a Mexican-American to a batch of idiot teenagers voicing their fantasized desire to lynch non-whites as a wholly unsupportable way of celebrating this nation’s founding. Another member of this forum has noted that the article I referenced has since been edited, indicating that some local voices dispute this particular account of the Whattaburger incident, and insisting that this edit makes the initial position of the article in question (and thus my own suggestion that there’s more to this incident than meets the eye) entirely invalid.

    Not just "edited" -- the local news station retracted the witness's statement and then pulled the story entirely.

    Why? Because it has not been verified that the teens made those comments. Just because you believe it to be true doesn't make it so.

    Here's another article that reports Jimenez told the media his actions were a "lapse in judgement" and "out of character for him," along with some revealing comments from his brother:

    http://www.ktsa.com/san-antonio-teen-has-make-america-great-again-hat-stolen-from-him-soda-tossed-in-face-at-whataburger/

    Notice that the brother refers to Jimenez as a bully who has been a bully to "everyone [he's] known." Notice that neither Jimenez nor his brother made any reference to being provoked by racial comments from the teenagers. Do those things strike you as odd considering your take on the events?

    I should also add that I think the teen, Hunter Whatever, is a total moron for both wearing the hat and then posting that stupid photo on Instagram (also in the story linked above) -- incendiary garbage that will not help his case.
    I disagree. I think there’s very clearly a racial aspect to this incident

    I never denied this. As you've already pointed out, the MAGA hat is a reminder of the POTUS's divisive and offensive behavior. I have no doubt that a Mexican-American would be angered by it. I have no doubt many would be angered by it.

    However, wearing a hat that offends people and talking about lynching African Americans to anyone within earshot are two very different things, the latter being much more serious than the former. Which of these has been verified?
    -- and further, I would suggest that any attempt to invalidate the racial underpinnings of this incident must be either racially or politically motivated.

    Politically motivated, yes, in that sense that folks are tired of extreme partisans accepting false or highly questionable articles as fact.

    ...and, again, the only "racial underpinnings" that I have an issue with here are those that have not been proven i.e. the lynching comments.
    But hey! --if you need to have a current news article quoting the (still trying to stay anonymous out of what I think is a justifiable fear of reprisal) witness in question regarding these teenagers’ reprehensible remarks -- then here: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny-news-whataburger-maga-attack-20180706-story.html

    Current how? The article offers the same out of date information and then provides a dead link to the KENS 5 story (which has been pulled down).
    As I’ve said at least once before in this discussion, the truth will eventually be told. Let it be told completely, and soon.

    Fine. If it is verified by the media that the MAGA teen made those comments, you're welcome to tag me in this thread, and I'll come back here and post that you were right all along in your assumptions.

    But for now, can we drop it?
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,795
    Escalus5 wrote: »
    if it is verified by the media that the MAGA teen made those comments, I will gladly come back here and post that you were correct in your assumptions.

    But for now, can we drop it?
    Seems more than fair enough.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    There is now a fundraising to get a giant Sadiq Khan baby balloon in the air.The funny thing is, it is Khan who will have to approve it, just as he approved of the Trump balloon.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited July 2018 Posts: 12,480
    Trump is avoiding London now, but I feel sure somehow the Trump baby balloon .... as well as many other creatives protests, will find him wherever he goes in the U.K. :) Yes, there are usually counter demos, of course. The request for a Khan balloon is not surprising, but I don't care about it, even it's approved.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    This is probably the last thing needed to say on Trump's NK summit at this point. If any real changes occur, I'll add those later.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    I think my UK friends must already be aware of this news ...

    I've read no further info at this time.
  • Posts: 1,296
    May we please remember , to all those reading my posts, that we must be friends in the most familiar of ways if we are to share html together. This site is a bubble of goodness and I don't want that to go the way of the dodo just because people are getting into pitter patter back and forth ego storking about nothing in particular. Just remmember, if you wouldn't say it to their face, don't bother typing it out either. Thank you.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,795
    IGUANNA wrote: »
    May we please remember , to all those reading my posts, that we must be friends in the most familiar of ways if we are to share html together. This site is a bubble of goodness and I don't want that to go the way of the dodo just because people are getting into pitter patter back and forth ego storking about nothing in particular. Just remmember, if you wouldn't say it to their face, don't bother typing it out either. Thank you.

    I'd ONLY type stuff I'd say directly to someone in person. Even on FB where I curse a lot... ;)
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited July 2018 Posts: 12,480
    Yes, I think Trump is going to try to sell "partnership", working with Putin in Syria. And more. Interesting things will be coming out, including leaked. So much is being discovered, we only ever now a small part (such is politics). Trump's staff and incoming administration made releasing Russia from sanctions and cooperation in Syria as a top priority even before his inauguration.

    So in UK - Boris resigned. I think he will try to come back in some capacity; he cannot seem to stop himself from doing so.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Yes, Chris, I think you and I say in writing what we would say in person. Except I swear more in person than in text. ;)
  • I'm pretty sure I've never used the "F word" on this forum. Can't say the same for real life...
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited July 2018 Posts: 17,795
    I'm pretty sure I've never used the "F word" on this forum. Can't say the same for real life...

    I've used the f-bomb right here, and been rightly admonished for my transgression.
    Yes, Chris, I think you and I say in writing what we would say in person. Except I swear more in person than in text. ;)
    I once said to a guy on FB (looked at his page to make sure he was my size or bigger first- bigger) that if I ever saw him face to face I'd kick his [bad word for butt]. I meant it. He said he'd do the same. Then we both did the LOL thing, and agreed to disagree. Funny moment...
  • Posts: 4,813
    I think I know who! :))
This discussion has been closed.