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  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    edited February 2019 Posts: 8,324
    @4EverBonded the guy I was taalking about works for one of the most renowned TV stations in my country.. But on the whole people lack intelligence, not only in journalism, politics maybe even worse.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Yes, Commander? :)
    And off I go ... duty (and work calls) ...
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,324
    too quick on the enter, I edited above ;-)
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    CommanderRoss wrote: »
    @4EverBonded the guy I was taalking about works for one of the most renowned TV stations in my country.. But on the whole people lack intelligence, not only in journalism, politics maybe even worse.

    So not all journalists are lazy just this one person you have personal experience with. I am sorry to hear this, but there are lazy gits everywhere. I believe the American TV station FOX collects them.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,324
    SaintMark wrote: »
    CommanderRoss wrote: »
    @4EverBonded the guy I was taalking about works for one of the most renowned TV stations in my country.. But on the whole people lack intelligence, not only in journalism, politics maybe even worse.

    So not all journalists are lazy just this one person you have personal experience with. I am sorry to hear this, but there are lazy gits everywhere. I believe the American TV station FOX collects them.

    Don't worry, that was just the most recent encounter. I met journalists before and I've never been impressed. I'm a trained historian, so I know the way they ought to try and get their information, they just don't bother. This guy is from RTL. I met them from papers as well. They're all the same.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    I get your frustration, @CommanderRoss.
    Thankfully, reporters are not quite all the same, no matter how bad it seems at times (and times are bad for that now). Or we'd never make progress as a society. Free press is critically important. A lot to wade through, though. Lots of mediocre to poor reporters it seems, sure. In America, it seems we are flooded with much disinformation, propaganda, and then just poor reporting that leaves things undone, not followed up, the appropriate questions not asked, etc. People calling themselves journalists who are not. Etc. It is a minefield, for sure. Other countries, too, of course.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited February 2019 Posts: 12,480
    Just came across this, so adding it here. It is one example of actual dogged, thorough reporting making a good difference. Judge just ruled. This has gone thru the system already, done, dusted and those involved hoped it would stay buried.

  • BeatlesSansEarmuffsBeatlesSansEarmuffs
    Posts: 3,566
    This just in: journalists are actually human beings. They are just as flawed, as noble, as petty , and as conscientious as the rest of us. They are overworked and underpaid, harried, and struggling to get through the day, just as you and I. They are also essential to the hard work of managing a democracy... and in these Trumpian times, they have been declared Enemies of the People. While I'm not going to claim that any of them is the living embodiment of Clark Kent, I'd recommend against issuing a blanket condemnation of the entire profession.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,324
    BeatlesSansEarmuffs wrote: »
    This just in: journalists are actually human beings. They are just as flawed, as noble, as petty , and as conscientious as the rest of us. They are overworked and underpaid, harried, and struggling to get through the day, just as you and I. They are also essential to the hard work of managing a democracy... and in these Trumpian times, they have been declared Enemies of the People. While I'm not going to claim that any of them is the living embodiment of Clark Kent, I'd recommend against issuing a blanket condemnation of the entire profession.

    Don't get me wrong, I wholeheartedly agree on their importance, but not many journalist still do proper research. It's too easy to go for the crowd-attracting headline instead of an honest story. And yes I know, with the advances of internet many papers got rid of their investigative journalists as those were deemed 'too expensive'. Well, it's exactly this lack of fact-finding that opened the door for Trump, as it opened the door to factfree politics (on all sides).
    My frustration is opposite Trumps, I don't think they're critical enough, thorough enough, tenacious enough. And i consider that a problem for democracies.
  • BeatlesSansEarmuffsBeatlesSansEarmuffs
    edited February 2019 Posts: 3,566
    Perhaps the most truthful statement ever made in the chambers of the US Congress was spoken today, with the cameras running and the American people watching closely. Jamie Raskin, Democratic Representative from Maryland said to Michael Cohen, who was testifying re: his work for Donald Trump (and receiving quite a bit of push-back from the Republicans in the room) -- "Our colleagues aren't upset because you lied to Congress for the president," Raskin said. "They're upset because you've stopped lying to Congress for the president."

    The beginning of the end? Or the middle? One way or the other, Trump's end seems imminent at this point...
  • ThrasosThrasos
    edited February 2019 Posts: 1,469
    On the Trump-North Korea talks: Though I'm a Democrat (just barely these days, since I'm a moderate to right-wing Democrat who opposes what I see as many liberals going so far left), I feel like the world is just a little safer, thanks to President Trump, who I find has handled some things better than Obama did, including the North Korean threat. Trump is looking very smart on the issue right now, not just because he's been meeting face to face with Kim for the SECOND time (Obama never met him once), but also because of the strength he's shown in his trade war with China, which has undoubtedly affected Chinese-North Korean relations, as China seems to be the only world power that truly influences the regime and could've told Kim "Trump means business", partly because Trump bombed Syria, something Obama didn't have the guts to do (in response to chemical weapons attacks that killed innocent civilians).

    Fox News says another big U.S. news agency apparently got it wrong when it claimed the Trump administration would no longer need a full accounting of the North's nuclear and ballistic missile programs. Kim later told the media, if he wasn't willing to denuclearize, he wouldn't be talking with Trump. North Korea could still launch nukes against the West Coast, just as we could obliterate North Korea if it came to that. The talks will go on--but what's happening is another promising step. Most liberals probably won't credit Trump, but many other Americans--and possibly those of other countries, including North Koreans--will.
  • BeatlesSansEarmuffsBeatlesSansEarmuffs
    Posts: 3,566
    You are of course welcome to believe whatever you like, @Thrasos, but it would be best if there were some reality at the heart of your beliefs. It seems that the second Trump/Kim summit has been cut short with no agreement reached. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/donald-trump-kim-jong-un-hanoi_n_5c777042e4b0952f89de39b0 Oh well.......
  • ThrasosThrasos
    edited February 2019 Posts: 1,469
    Actually, I think what I wrote was mostly reality-based. Trump has done more and better than Obama with North Korea. And I think meeting is better than not trying. Yes, it's true that the summit was cut short with no agreement. That's a possibility with any meeting like that, and as President Trump said, sometimes that's the smartest thing to do--walk--especially if North Korea plays hardball. It sounds like they wanted the U.S. to end ALL sanctions before the North gave up SOME nukes, and if that's true, I think Trump did the right thing. Apparently the process will continue.
  • BeatlesSansEarmuffsBeatlesSansEarmuffs
    edited February 2019 Posts: 3,566
    The art of No Deal: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-reportedly-drops-key-demand-in-north-korea-nuclear-negotiations-2019-02-27
    https://www.alternet.org/2019/02/trump-runs-cover-for-kim-jong-un-when-asked-about-otto-warmbiers-death-and-even-rick-santorum-thinks-its-reprehensible/
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,008
    BeatlesSansEarmuffs wrote: »
    The art of No Deal: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-reportedly-drops-key-demand-in-north-korea-nuclear-negotiations-2019-02-27
    https://www.alternet.org/2019/02/trump-runs-cover-for-kim-jong-un-when-asked-about-otto-warmbiers-death-and-even-rick-santorum-thinks-its-reprehensible/

    It's almost as if summit #2 was just as useless as the first one!
  • BeatlesSansEarmuffsBeatlesSansEarmuffs
    Posts: 3,566
    A joke I just saw on Facebook: Now Trump is going to start calling himself a war hero. He was shot down in Vietnam.
  • ThrasosThrasos
    edited February 2019 Posts: 1,469
    So what do you guys think? Isn't it better to go there and try, rather than not go and talk bluster? That's what I think, and I think Trump is on the right track. Or do you think we may just have to obliterate North Korea at some point, or do nothing and live with their nuclear threat, or wait till another Democrat becomes president, which doesn't guarantee a win either? Or is it that you just hate Trump and believe he can do no good?
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,008
    It can't hurt to try, sure, but when both summits produce nothing, it makes you wonder why they waste the time in the first place. NK has toned down the heated rhetoric since Trump took office, that's about it. Trump acted like we were on the verge of going to war before he became POTUS, which is blatantly false.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    And if him trying leads to a nuclear exchange, are we to just shrug our shoulders and go "Well, at least he tried"?
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,008
    I'd say the most disgusting instance of yesterday's bogus summit was Trump taking a man like Kim Jong-un at his word about having no clue what Otto Warmbier endured. This is a man that refutes all logic, facts and reality, yet takes people like Kim or Putin at their word, no matter what they say.
  • BeatlesSansEarmuffsBeatlesSansEarmuffs
    edited February 2019 Posts: 3,566
    He believes Kim and Putin OVER HIS OWN NATIONAL SECURITY PEOPLE. It's way past time to start asking: what sort of hold do these international thugs have over the guy that supposed to be President of the US? Is it emotional? Financial? Evidence of wrongdoing? What? Why? And what do we have to do to put somebody competent back in the Oval Office?
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,008
    BeatlesSansEarmuffs wrote: »
    He believes Kim and Putin OVER HIS OWN NATIONAL SECURITY PEOPLE. It's way past time to start asking: what sort of hold do these international thugs have over the guy that supposed to be President of the US? Is it emotional? Financial? Evidence of wrongdoing? What? Why? And what do we have to do to put somebody competent back in the Oval Office?

    It's been obvious for years now, and only grows further and further apparent with each idiotic misstep he makes, much like yesterday. I couldn't even begin to imagine being so politically biased that I hungrily ate up selling out my own country and trusting despots and dictators over my own security and intelligence people.
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    BeatlesSansEarmuffs wrote: »
    He believes Kim and Putin OVER HIS OWN NATIONAL SECURITY PEOPLE. It's way past time to start asking: what sort of hold do these international thugs have over the guy that supposed to be President of the US? Is it emotional? Financial? Evidence of wrongdoing? What? Why? And what do we have to do to put somebody competent back in the Oval Office?

    It's been obvious for years now, and only grows further and further apparent with each idiotic misstep he makes, much like yesterday. I couldn't even begin to imagine being so politically biased that I hungrily ate up selling out my own country and trusting despots and dictators over my own security and intelligence people.

    I am amazed that The Republicans not have thrown Trump to the wolves, with Mike Pence they would have a far more stable president in line with the party.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited February 2019 Posts: 12,480
    My opinion, briefly, is that a U.S. president should make an effort to denuclearize, work with North Korea. Carefully. Behind the scenes. Not on the world stage. When Trump gave Kim that first summit, that was awful; a bad first step. That alone gave this brutal dictator more prominence and put him on a higher lever globally; something past presidents were aware of and chose not to give North Korea. 2nd summit doomed to failure from the first, with no real preparation. But it was a distraction, coming when Trump needed a distraction (from Cohen testimony). Anyway, that's my opinion. And though now stalemated on the nuclear issue, life moves on. Many strong developments happening in U.S. politics; it will continue to be a bumpy ride but we are on a better course now.

    As for Trump always praising murderous dictators and govts; ample evidence of that. I do not respect him as our president for many reasons, but that is definitely one reason. I'm not even going into Cohen's testimony before Congress; saving that for later, as it gets confirmed with more people being brought to testify (like Trump Foundation CFO Weisselberg).








    On a lighter note, here is this at the current conservative conference (CPAC):
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,534
    Are you guys familiar with the phrase "blowing smoke your arse"? That's pretty much the impression I get with Trump's "praising" of Kimberly Jung-Uni.
  • BeatlesSansEarmuffsBeatlesSansEarmuffs
    Posts: 3,566
    4EverBonded wrote: »

    Thanks for bringing this one to our attention, @4Ever. It's easy to miss stuff in the 12-ring circus of awfulness that is the Trump Administration. Foreign despots murdering American citizens -- and foreign born journalists working for American newspapers -- means nothing to this wanna-be domestic dictator. He can't be gone soon enough for my tastes. Legally done, of course...
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited March 2019 Posts: 12,480
    Yes, for sure Jared could not have gotten a security clearance, let alone top clearance, without Trump pushing it. I do believe Jared and Trump's children, especially Don Jr., will be prosecuted for crimes.

    Jared totally involved with Saudi Arabia, giving him advice (how to handle the publicity), whitewashing Khashoggi's murder for MBS, and much more.

    It will be interesting as this all unfolds. I'll just add that the midterm elections that gave the Democrats the majority in the House is definitely help save our country, our democracy.



  • JamesStockJamesStock
    Posts: 572
    BeatlesSansEarmuffs wrote: »
    He believes Kim and Putin OVER HIS OWN NATIONAL SECURITY PEOPLE. It's way past time to start asking: what sort of hold do these international thugs have over the guy that supposed to be President of the US? Is it emotional? Financial? Evidence of wrongdoing? What? Why? And what do we have to do to put somebody competent back in the Oval Office?
    The answer is simple, you have to wait a year and a half.
  • ThrasosThrasos
    Posts: 1,469
    About North Korea in a moment. I don't think those international thugs have a hold over Trump. It is unfortunate that he apparently doesn't trust his national security people fully--but it's partly understandable, for at least two reasons. Remember that, during the presidential campaign in 2016, now former FBI Agent Peter Strzok texted an FBI attorney, saying the FBI would "stop" Trump from becoming president. You can imagine that that would make Trump burn! and to suspect that others felt the same way, even worked against him, may still work against him, and leak things to the media. Just one example. Also, he's kind of a loner who trusts his instincts. And he has probably thought that he could apply his negotiating tactics learned before becoming president, to his summits with Kim, though of course Trump had Secretary of State Mike Pompeo by his side through this last summit, so he does trust some close advisers. It remains to be seen if he'll change tactics in future dealings with North Korea--whether he'll continue on the path he's been on, or whether he'll accept more help from the intelligence community.
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I'd say the most disgusting instance of yesterday's bogus summit was Trump taking a man like Kim Jong-un at his word about having no clue what Otto Warmbier endured...
    I think Trump was being diplomatic and that it would not have helped the relationship with Kim at that time to say "you killed him and you'll pay!" That would have really set the relationship back. I say, deal with the greater nuclear threat first, then deal with the North's humanitarian abuses later--priorities. As "Spock" said, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.
    4EverBonded wrote: »
    My opinion, briefly, is that a U.S. president should make an effort to denuclearize, work with North Korea. Carefully. Behind the scenes. Not on the world stage.
    I agree! That is the smart way. The way it worked out could've been equal parts 1) lack of firm groundwork laid by subordinates, and 2) Trump wanting to make a big show and confidence that he himself could pull it off. It's in the media from last summer that he said it would probably take more than one meeting to reach an agreement. You can understand North Korea's attitude, since their nukes are their main bargaining chip, so they don't want to give them up--I think any U.S. president would have a tough time getting a deal.
    Remington wrote: »
    Are you guys familiar with the phrase "blowing smoke your arse"? That's pretty much the impression I get with Trump's "praising" of Kimberly Jung-Uni.
    I agree. I'm not sure how genuine Trump is about those things, but I think you're right that he tries to warm up Kim, hoping for an agreement, probably part of his Art of the Deal, though I haven't read that book of Trump's.
  • BeatlesSansEarmuffsBeatlesSansEarmuffs
    Posts: 3,566
    JamesStock wrote: »
    BeatlesSansEarmuffs wrote: »
    He believes Kim and Putin OVER HIS OWN NATIONAL SECURITY PEOPLE. It's way past time to start asking: what sort of hold do these international thugs have over the guy that supposed to be President of the US? Is it emotional? Financial? Evidence of wrongdoing? What? Why? And what do we have to do to put somebody competent back in the Oval Office?
    The answer is simple, you have to wait a year and a half.

    Not necessarily. Impeachment is a possibility. Pelosi is reluctant to travel that road, but we the people can insist on it.
This discussion has been closed.