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But you just keep calling for us to not help refugees who are trying to escape from acts of terror like this. I bet you'r next argument is that we should help all those homeless people in our own backyard who you've never before given a toss about, right?
which ended with:
So I mixed up your name with the hundreds of people saying "throw out the refugees" or even "kill all the Muslims". So what? I've read both so many times in the past 24 hours I wondered if I was living the same moment over and over again. Sort of similar to whenever I read one of your comments.
The above sums you and your attitude up perfectly. You sir, are a complete and utter moron!
I don't see what we're going through as so utterly different from other periods in history.
Even with these seemingly endless attacks the actual ability of the murderers remains
Exactly. To stop every bomber you'd need security on every train, coach, bus, bar, restaurant and workplace in the country. Judging by the target they've chosen probably schools as well.
Where does it lead. If we go down that route these losers end up winning.
"Double, double toil and trouble;
Fire burn and caldron bubble. "
Just watching the news and the whole family seem to have been going back and forth to Libya wily nily! Could anyone tell me what 'being known to the authorities' actually means? Because from what I can glean it seems to translate as 'known to be a terrorist but the government did sod all and let him go about his business.'
Why do we not have black ops agents going round taking out these people in a back alley? Couldn't give a fuck about due process any more to be honest. Anyone proven to have visited Syria for any reason whatsoever should be arrested because there is literally no reason why anyone sane should be there.
Sick and tired of bending over backwards because these people might be offended about pork or Christmas or someone drawing some fucking cartoons.
If I cut off a baby's clitoris I get arrested. Not if you're Muslim - it's just part of their culture.
If I cut an animal's throat and let it bleed to death in horrible distress I get arrested. Not if you're Muslim - it's just part of their culture.
If I systematically groom a load of teenage girls for the purposes of sex I get arrested. Not if you're Muslim (well not for years after the authorities kept turning a blind eye) - it's just part of their culture.
Give my wife a slap and I get arrested. Not if you're Muslim - it's just part of their culture.
Refuse to show my face in court and I'm held in contempt. Not if you're Muslim - it's just part of their culture.
Its time to decide what's more important to you; being British or Islam. Like Rosie Carver (cocks PPK) - make your choice. The two are no longer compatible.
There's being tolerant and inclusive and welcoming different people and cultures to live in your country and there's being a laughing stock. The UK used to be the former but is now the latter. Time we woke the fuck up.
Absolutely,totally...................RIGHT...post of the entire thread right there....these creatures are in our country,hiding (not) in plain daylight and all but waving an explosive device in our faces and laughing at us every day.
We are a CHRISTIAN country,and these 'people' have pushed and pushed and pushed...enough is enough..once one country takes the step to control these creatures then the rest will follow suit.
If we have to lead the way again once more then so be it.
Wow. So wrong.
A few overtly vocal voices call for your holidays to be changed or what have you and you paint the whole that way.
I promise you that 99.9999% of refugees in your country don't give a goddamn sod about your Christmas holidays or want to marry a bunch of teenagers. They wanted to escape the suicide bombings happening in their country. Manchester is a daily thing over there and usually a lot more than 19 people end up dying each time. Other than that they just want to exist without being dragged out in the street and beaten, and without being told that they're vermin for existing. Jesus. You say "don't let the terrorists divide us" and then in your next paragraphs you literally call for division.
@barryt007, you are not a "Christian country". You might be Christian, or whatever, or some people you know are, but you are not a "Christian country" or an "Islamic country" or a friggin "Buddhist country" even. You're just a country. Religion should not dictate policy. And as far as encountering people of other religions goes... I dunno. Try just saying "hello" or "good afternoon" when you walk past them on the street? Try that for a start.
Oh wait. You think Muslims are just "creatures" to be controlled. There's no reasoning with you.
I hate to correct someone, and I don't believe all Muslims are bad or terrorists. However England is Church Of England as far as religion goes.
But why is it that with my fellow countrymen I cannot celebrate Christmas because people may get offended.
Why is it that Muslims have the right to refuse to remove their Burqa?
I'm more than happy to have any race, religion live next too me. But don't go trying to change things to the way they were in the country you decided to leave behind.
Anyone who is on a watch list, visiting known terrorist hot spots needs to be asked why.
Take them out of circulation. Yes another will pop up, but the one detained will not be able to carry out a heinous crime such as we saw in Manchester.
I've heard and read people mention the civil rights or people. What about the rights of the 22 people that died.
Imagine during WW2 if people had said, I don't want to go as it might offend someone.
It's their right to bomb London.
We're too bloody soft in situations like this.
Even though the liberalists and other assorted idiots attempt brainwash us into believing otherwise, we simply cannot fight a war with one hand tied behind our backs.
Personally I already know the procedure, it may be slightly different in the GMP force area, but I think other subscribers to the thread may be enlightened by your own experience, as it will show that the police are there to help not only those within the immediate family circle, but also friends and even acquaintances - indeed anyone who had a personal connection to the victims.
Don't worry if you think this is only for people who were killed. The families and friends of those wounded are also eligible for help.
If you haven't already, you can contact the police with a view to arranging such assistance. Don't worry, you wouldn't have to visit the police station, an officer would come out to see you.
Let us know how you get on.
http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/world/paul-reid-comforted-youngest-victim-of-manchester-attack-saffie-roussos-in-his-arms/news-story/7a082752f6a04368887cd194f3227c92
Eight year old Saffie Roussos lay dying wanting her mum. I'd be shocked if any parent wasn't moved by this. But you don't even need to be a parent. You just need to be a human being.
"Extremism" seems to have replaced "Islamic extremism" to describe the threat (or "radicalised" rather than "radical Islam"). There seems to be a determination to bury the issue of Islam and focus on other issues.
Wizard, some of your points are spot on but Islam is treated like any other religion re the free ride we give it. For example, its not the only religion that thinks its fine to "take the knife" to kids because God says so. If these terrorists came from a political party or a pressure group, that party would get torn to shreds. But because it originates from a religion, the whole thing gets fogged up. We give religious infrastructures (leaders, buildings, practices) a respect and defference and this means that its a perfect place for these beleifs to grow and breed.
As I type, there is a guy on Sky news talking about alienation of young boys, poverty etc but nobody is asking the question as to why boys from other religions are not blowing themselves up. Across different events, across borders and across time...Islam is the common thread that runs through the issue and it takes a positive will to ignore this but this is what is happening.
PS another issue that is not being discussed is the fact that this guys parents were refugees. We have been told by many that we should be more compasionate etc re our attitude towards refugees. We have to ask ourselves how our generosity was rewarded and, if we could turn back the clock, would we be so open re our attitude to Libyan refugees. IMHO, as a country, we have made some very poor decisions.
I agree with a lot of your sentiments and agree there is definitely an argument for some far more robust push back/criminal prosecutions in terms of what a minority or extremely unpleasant Muslims are doing on a daily basis, under the cloak of 'cultural difference', but your proposed wider solution of black ops and a general culture of distrust and hostility is the road to disaster.
It has to be repeated again and again because it's true - what you are proposing is EXACTLY the response these people want. They want us to securitise and militarise our response and our own society. They want us to live in fear and in a constant state of paranoia. They want us to hate - infact their ideology is entirely dependant on a cycle of mutual hatred. But we should not overestimate their strength or their popularity. We overreact and we make them stronger. Invading Iraq was Bin Laden hitting the jackpot. We toppled Gadaffi and gave people like this free reign to whatever the hell they wanted in Libya. As stated above, what happened in Manchester is a regular occurance in Iraq, Libya etc. in no small part due to the hell that western governments have unleashed on those countries.
Sorry guys, but what with StirredNotShaken's " fake news" and this idiot
I'm leaving the discussion, too many liberal, hug a terrorist on here for my liking.
Although it would be interesting how you justify any new horrendous attack.
Agreed.
Don't see anyone justifying attacks.
Just saying the world is more complex than the black ops advocates like to think. The real world doesn't work like a Bourne movie.
Agreed - it is complex.
And yes that is just 4 words - sorry for all those who want a 5000 word essay - don't have time.
I suggest that this be improved prior to any draconian measures being put in place targeting specific religions and infringing on personal rights. I am against any methods that target Islam specifically without applying the same measures to all other religions. Discrimination (whether it be religious or otherwise) is not my cup of tea.
Meanwhile, a more concerted multi-pronged effort must be made to bring Muslims into the fold of UK big city culture (I don't expect we'll see this sort of behaviour in small towns). This is more a case of integrating these people into society. Some folks are lost causes no doubt, but others can be positively influenced over time.
This is a multi-generational battle and it will take time, but it starts with an acknowledgement of the problem and changes in policy and behaviour.
To repeat, the attack was outside the venue in a public place. The ticket office effectively has the same security status as a shop. The tightest security in the World does not stop an attack just outside the venue.
Re integration, you cannot force a group to integrate if they dont want to, other minorities have more than integrated, they have ambraced what the UK and Western culture has to offer and they have added their own positives.
Western culture/society is not guilty in any way re the lack of integration. To "bring muslims into the fold" implies that it is our role, as if we are the shepherds and they are the sheep. It implies its down to us and they are merely passive, waiting for us to "bring them into the fold". It fits into the narative that, somehow, this is our fault. Its a dangerous road to go down and a road that I personally reject.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/may/24/manchester-theresa-may-outrage-tough-response-terror?CMP=share_btn_fb
The above article IMHO is spot on. There seems to be a feeding frenzy between some ellements of the media, the public and politicians to rachet up everything and forget that, no matter whatt, life goes on. Sky News is just 100% saturage on this and they are just providing exactly the type of coverage that the terrorists want.
"The key text here remains the reaction of New York’s mayor Rudy Giuliani on the afternoon of 9/11, when he called on New Yorkers to stay calm, “buy a pizza, take the kids to the park, see a show. "
I couldn't agree more. (And yet more flip flopping from T!!!???) I was also dismayed by the general lack of empathy for the victims from some quarters. However, the best way forward is not to withdraw but maintain your presence, otherwise the thread will be overrun by the apologists.
No flippflopping
I agree.
You guys need to get a grip.
What's your solution? Kill all the brown people with beards?
@bondjames, with all due respect, can I ask how much personal experience you have in crowd control/policing/security of large scale events? If you have, then you will realise that things aren't as black and white as you seem to think.
Blame the security, blame the police, blame the government, blame the folks who were stupid enough to turn up to watch the concert, but for gods sake DON'T BLAME THE TERRORISTS!
Perhaps you're missing my point. When I lived there a few decades back, even though I was quite young, I could see the beginning of this. Ghettos and what not. That's unacceptable, but it's part and parcel of big city life. This is as much the failure of decades of poor government (city as well as overall) policy as it is anything else. David Cameron was right when he said multiculturalism has failed England. I have been saying for years that multiculturalism doesn't favour integration, and I am all for integration.
Lack of assimilation is not something one can blame purely on Muslims however. Other nationalities and groups are guilty of it in other big cities too, and I see it whenever I travel to one of them. At present, those groups don't go around blowing people up and taking their own lives however. So what causes these people to do that? They are normally ostracized loners (on the extremes) with some kind of beef with society at large from what I can tell. These are psychological issues as much as they are religious ones. A more concerted attempt to understand the cause is required in my view.
Thursday - and I can report that once again The Stag gets upset and angry because people don't agree with him. Be sure to come again for updates.