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  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    +1.
  • MrcogginsMrcoggins Following in the footsteps of Quentin Quigley.
    Posts: 3,144
    Eight minutes from first alert to all three of them Dead on the ground The Met did a fine job last night for which we must be justly proud of them.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    edited June 2017 Posts: 4,077
    Unfortunately we've let this Islamic cancer rise in our own country for too long unchecked. I mean come on, they've got their own schools, their own churches, their own secular communities and in some instances their own laws. Their ideology and morals are vastly different from our own yet we expect them to play nicely and be good tolerant little Muslims.

    Of course the majority are seen as tolerant and peaceful, they've got exactly what they want! Hell, they've even got their own Mayor of London!

    And is it not insane that a lot of these that went to fight in Syria have been allowed BACK in this country?!!! They must be laughing their bollocks off at us.

    These attacks are not going to end anytime soon, so expect a hell of a lot more minute silences, benefit concerts, candlelit vigils, lit up landmarks and Facebook profile picture changes.

    There were 650 mosques in the UK in 2001. in just over ten years that number has more than quadrupled. In 2015 'Muhammed' was the most commonly given name to baby boys in England and Wales.

    You do the math.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,511
    reading about the attacks right now: despicable. England needs a Churchill right about now.
  • MrcogginsMrcoggins Following in the footsteps of Quentin Quigley.
    Posts: 3,144
    Sadly we don't have anybody with that amount of talent in British politics these days .
  • stagstag In the thick of it!
    edited June 2017 Posts: 1,053
    'Tough' words from the PM, unfortunately those words will never translate into action.

    I wonder if anyone else watching the news noticed that two eyewitnesses - interviewed separately - mentioned that the PoS' responsible shouted "This is for Allah"?

    IMHO just as powerful an enemy as the terrorists themselves are those in the establishment, the media and elsewhere, who by various means continue to defend the actions of these scum. I have news for you assorted liberalist/hand wringing/apologists, the 'measures' you adopted to curb radicalisation and prevent terrorist attacks - measures which were adopted after 7/7 - have failed miserably not only to address the core of the problem but the issues on its periphery. You've had twelve years with which to prove that your way of doing things will work and look where we are today. Time to step aside because it's time for action, it's time to take the fight to the enemy.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2017 Posts: 23,883
    Unfortunately we've let this Islamic cancer rise in our own country for too long unchecked. I mean come on, they've got their own schools, their own churches, their own secular communities and in some instances their own laws. Their ideology and morals are vastly different from our own yet we expect them to play nicely and be good tolerant little Muslims.

    Of course the majority are seen as tolerant and peaceful, they've got exactly what they want! Hell, they've even got their own Mayor of London!

    And is it not insane that a lot of these that went to fight in Syria have been allowed BACK in this country?!!! They must be laughing their bollocks off at us.

    These attacks are not going to end anytime soon, so expect a hell of a lot more minute silences, benefit concerts, candlelit vigils, lit up landmarks and Facebook profile picture changes.

    There were 650 mosques in the UK in 2001. in just over ten years that number has more than quadrupled. In 2015 'Muhammed' was the most commonly given name to baby boys in England and Wakes.

    You do the math.
    Quite disturbing indeed.

    I'm thinking of taking up self defense training, at least to fend off a knife attack. I first read about this sort of random thing about 4 years ago in Israel, when a Palestinian assailant would just come up to someone and stab them out of nowhere. At that time I realized this was going to get uglier, because it's impossible to predict where or when something like this will come from next.
  • Posts: 12,526
    Here we are again sadly after yet another act of terrorism. 7 people have now sadly lost their lives last I heard. Thoughts, prayers, and support for the families and friends of the fallen.
  • stagstag In the thick of it!
    Posts: 1,053
    .And is it not insane that a lot of these that went to fight in Syria have been allowed BACK in this country?!!! They must be laughing their bollocks off at us.

    I've been saying the same thing for a long time. Our enemies use and abuse our systems, which they rightly see as weaknesses, to manipulate events to their own advantage.

  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited June 2017 Posts: 9,117
    Unfortunately we've let this Islamic cancer rise in our own country for too long unchecked. I mean come on, they've got their own schools, their own churches, their own secular communities and in some instances their own laws. Their ideology and morals are vastly different from our own yet we expect them to play nicely and be good tolerant little Muslims.

    Of course the majority are seen as tolerant and peaceful, they've got exactly what they want! Hell, they've even got their own Mayor of London!

    And is it not insane that a lot of these that went to fight in Syria have been allowed BACK in this country?!!! They must be laughing their bollocks off at us.

    These attacks are not going to end anytime soon, so expect a hell of a lot more minute silences, benefit concerts, candlelit vigils, lit up landmarks and Facebook profile picture changes.

    There were 650 mosques in the UK in 2001. in just over ten years that number has more than quadrupled. In 2015 'Muhammed' was the most commonly given name to baby boys in England and Wakes.

    You do the math.

    Hear hear.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/04/london-attack-theresa-may-says-enough-is-enough-after-seven-killed

    Trying to sound tough but what are actually you gonna do love?

    When you say there is 'too much tolerance of extremism' what do you actually mean? There's no tolerance of extremism amongst the general public so far as I can tell. There's only one sector of the population that comes out with appeasement shit like 'what they did was wrong but what about all the kids bombed in Iraq?' or 'while the Koran says it's wrong to kill I can understand why they did it'. So use the word 'Muslim' instead of these lily livered euphemisms like radicals and extremists.

    This is not a problem in the Jewish community or the Chinese community or Star Wars fan community. We all know which community has the problem so when are we going to admit it?

    Well I say it's only one community; let's not forget the liberal, lefty, multicultural mafia who would rather see the country burn than admit Islam might not be compatible with a modern, civilised, liberal democracy and whose levels of appeasement make Neville Chamberlain seem like Mrs Thatcher dealing with the miners strike.
  • imranbecksimranbecks Singapore
    Posts: 984
    3 attacks since March 22nd of this year. The UK intelligence community seems to be somewhat incompetent. Questions will be asked.
  • stagstag In the thick of it!
    Posts: 1,053
    imranbecks wrote: »
    3 attacks since March 22nd of this year. The UK intelligence community seems to be somewhat incompetent. Questions will be asked.

    Are you being serious? Tell me, how many attacks have been thwarted?

    The problem is, while we allow these terrorists to roam at will through our towns and cities, we will be forever playing whackamole.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2017 Posts: 23,883
    I had asked the question about why people were allowed to travel back and forth to these various countries about 2 years ago (including to Turkey, which was the gateway into Syria at that time) without increased questioning. Truly shocking. There was that case of a few girls who went over there and got radicalized some years back.

    Notice the difficulty the current US administration is having with passing its travel ban. That should have been a slam dunk.
  • imranbecksimranbecks Singapore
    Posts: 984
    stag wrote: »
    imranbecks wrote: »
    3 attacks since March 22nd of this year. The UK intelligence community seems to be somewhat incompetent. Questions will be asked.

    Are you being serious? Tell me, how many attacks have been thwarted?

    The problem is, while we allow these terrorists to roam at will through our towns and cities, we will be forever playing whackamole.

    While some were thwarted, 3 attacks happening within a space of 3 months is just not good enough.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    imranbecks wrote: »
    stag wrote: »
    imranbecks wrote: »
    3 attacks since March 22nd of this year. The UK intelligence community seems to be somewhat incompetent. Questions will be asked.

    Are you being serious? Tell me, how many attacks have been thwarted?

    The problem is, while we allow these terrorists to roam at will through our towns and cities, we will be forever playing whackamole.

    While some were thwarted, 3 attacks happening within a space of 3 months is just not good enough.

    Point is it's only the successful attacks that are getting coverage. They need to publicise the thwarted attacks just as much so it is clear just how deep this cancer runs.

    For every successful attack there's dozens blocked by the security services who are doing a sterling job considering the lack of resources and one hand being tied behind their backs by the politicians.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    bondjames wrote: »
    I had asked the question about why people were allowed to travel back and forth to these various countries about 2 years ago (including to Turkey, which was the gateway into Syria at that time) without increased questioning.

    Because as always, these scum are armed and supported by US intelligence services and their allies, to destabilize regimes that are in the way of their economic and/or military interests They don t care about civilian casualties down there, so perhaps the same goes for casualties back here?.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    This will always be a one hand tied behind the back kind of fight. That's the issue. For a society to remain free it cannot resort to blanket categorizations. Otherwise we'd be implying that the mayor was a terrorist sympathizer purely on account of his religious background. I'm not keen on the man personally (how the heck did he get voted in?) but that's more to do with his approach rather than his religion.

    I still think targeting the mosques & internet is the way to go. Levy fines on anyone found spreading hate filled or violence inducing rhetoric and levy fines on anyone associated with that too (even if they aren't the instigator). That will more likely result in folks coming forward.
  • edited June 2017 Posts: 4,617
    Went to Ikea yesterday, in the cafe, all the meat is Halal so my son (of no religion) is eating Hala meatballs. Not a big thing in itelf but a metaphor for the way that Islamic culture plays "above its weight" in terms of the requirements it places on those outside of its reach. There is no sign of flexibility at their end and the wider non Mulsim community has to accomodate their regid dogma re what can be eated and what cant. We seem to have "bent over backwards" to accomadate Islamic requirements and this is how we are repayed.

    If T May does want to get tough, then close all faith schools from Sept this year. Of course she wont. If you had a clean sheet of paper and wanted to create an environment that was perfect for breeding ignorance, isolation and closed views, then faith schools would be perfect. And yet, in her current manifesto are proposals to give faith schools greater powers re selection,

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2017 Posts: 23,883
    This is not a problem in the Jewish community or the Chinese community or Star Wars fan community. We all know which community has the problem so when are we going to admit it?
    I'm not sure if I agree with this. I'm pretty sure if someone dropped a munition on Tel Aviv (or occupied it) there would be significant reprisals, and more damaging ones than three men with a truck and knives. Same goes for any foreign government found guilty of attempting to incite or empower opposition forces in Beijing.

    Ultimately this is a war after all. A so called 'War on Terror'. The enemy is using a different approach to fight the war. They are creating weaponized cancer cells within the host nations and using them to inflict as much damage from within as possible, and cause the host nation to either change policy or become less free & more authoritarian.

    Time will tell if they will succeed in changing Western society.

    I think it's critical to cut off the communication channels (internet/mosque etc.) first. That hasn't been done yet.
  • edited June 2017 Posts: 11,119
    What do you want me to say about terrorism? Perhaps the best weapon against those terrorists is to stay silent on social media and remember the victimes in silence? I mean.....terrorism has been discussed to death already. So I remember the victims in silence and with respect....

    By the way, just been going through some pages in here. I was a bit afraid of doing so. And my fear was entirely justified...
  • MrcogginsMrcoggins Following in the footsteps of Quentin Quigley.
    Posts: 3,144
    Time to bring in the same powers of internment as were used in Northern Ireland during the troubles....
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2017 Posts: 23,883
    An interesting article from Oz on the impact of politics on shaping public opinion within communities. Where does one draw the line in terms of free speech vs. hate speech?

    --
    "Former British prime minister David Cameron tried to get more to grips with this when he spoke repeatedly of the need to combat “non-violent extremism” in Muslim­ communities.

    The reality he was respon­ding to was that non-violent extremism and conspiracy theor­ies, which play a prominent role in Islamic political culture in the West, prepare people for recruitment by ­violent jihad­ists by giving them a world view which holds that the West is engaged in a continuous conspiracy against Muslims.

    It is right to say that active partici­pants in terror plots are a tiny, tiny fraction of Muslims in the West, but people holding an extreme, paranoid and delusional narrative of politics constitute a much more substantial minority. No Western government has been successful in countering this, just as none has produced a really effective­ deradicalisation, or even counter-radicalisation, program.

    Such considerations raise again the question of Hizb ut-Tahrir, an extremist group that explicitly ­rejects terrorist violence.

    Last month, Joko Widodo’s government decided to ban Hizb ut-Tahrir in Indonesia. Germany, Egypt and China have already banned the group in their nations.

    The Turnbull government has decided it cannot ban it. The question for Western electorates is whether their liberalism requires them to tolerate groups that preach extremism right up to just before the point where they advocate terrorist violence
    ."
    --

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/columnists/greg-sheridan/corbyn-may-find-hell-be-hoist-with-his-own-petard/news-story/c0f1ef92d88a3b77f4d2d24e52656377
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,077
    patb wrote: »
    Went to Ikea yesterday, in the cafe, all the meat is Halal so my son (of no religion) is eating Hala meatballs. Not a big thing in itelf but a metaphor for the way that Islamic culture plays "above its weight" in terms of the requirements it places on those outside of its reach. There is no sign of flexibility at their end and the wider non Mulsim community has to accomodate their regid dogma re what can be eated and what cant. We seem to have "bent over backwards" to accomadate Islamic requirements and this is how we are repayed.

    I can completely understand where you're coming from. Did you know that there are over 22 Islamic associations and societies in England alone. And they're just the official ones.

    Rather disproportionate for a so called 'minority' wouldn't you say?
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Cartoons%20Insult_gif.jpg
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Cartoons%20Insult_gif.jpg

    Similarly:
    xQOPzpv.jpg

    We're not going to solve the problem while this continues on both sides.
  • Posts: 1,314
    The excuse that we are purely paying for military intervention abroad doesn't explain the rise of boko haram in Africa.

    My main issue is that 16 years on from 9/11 we are further away than ever from a practical solution. Most people don't even know or care what Isis is. They use meaningless phrases like 'monsters'. They are a death cult bent on destroying non Islamic civilisation

    Another thing that doesn't help is when people confuse scrutiny and criticism of islamic teachings with bigotry against all Muslims. It prevents any meaningful debate as everyone is petrified of being labelled an lslamophobe for offering an opinion.

    However making comments like Muslims have got their own mayor in sadiq Khan are stupid and divisive. I voted for him. Why? Because he's Labour.
  • edited June 2017 Posts: 11,119
    It all sounds so simple. We need to be tougher on this kind of terrorism. We need to be stricter with internet. We need to have better intel. We need to 'cut down their throats'.

    But in here there's barely a discussion about the real cause of it all. There's a reason most Islamic State terrorists are from Saudi-Arabia. It's because that damned King refuses to -financially- invest in the future of young kids and teenagers. He refuses to give the youth a sense of purpose and a chance to do well in society, by heavily investing in education, health-care and social security.

    And you know? You slowly see similar things happening in many Western countries. In here Muslims have already been made the paria's of today's western society. Nobody thinks that there perhaps are Muslim Bond fans? Anyway, that's besides the point. For decades subsequent governments, both Tories and Labour, refuse to shrink class differences in society, refused to heavily invest in education, refused to give those youngsters in poor suburbs, both Muslims and non-Muslims, a real chance to excell in their careers, refused to raise taxes on the rich, and lower them from iddle class all the way down to the poor people.

    If not properly tackled, one really creates the seeds for a poisonous society in which western democratic ideals are already being thrown in the dustbin. Then the more civilized Muslims dig online into anti-Muslim propaganda from Islamic State. Because make no mistake, the people in here who think Islamic State terrorists are the personification of the real Islam religion are dead wrong. They are the personification of the devil, they are the anti-Muslims....just like the Nazi's in WW II were the personification of the anti-Christ.

    Sadly, now many western societies are slowly hanging their heads to Trump's 'ideal vision of a Western world', the internet and the Islam are merely facilitators of all this terrorism, and are by far not the real causes. Once we don't have the financial and psychological will anymore to create an all-inclusive society, the outcasts of that society sooner or later will find the devil itself and turn to poisonous ideologies like Nazism...or Islamic State.

    Sadly, I am quite a lonely person in here addressing this very core problem, the core cause of all this shit. So nothing changes anyway. 9/11 is now 16 years old....and look where we are now. All that 'gutsy anti-terrorism talk' from politicians.......it didn't get us anywhere close to the annihilation of terrorism.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited June 2017 Posts: 15,722
    Nobody thinks that there perhaps are Muslim Bond fans?

    I can testify that the answer is yes - such Bond fans are part of the fanbase.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    edited June 2017 Posts: 9,511
    @Gustav_Graves I just don't see that many non-Muslims, from these poor neighbourhoods you speak of, blowing up women and children.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,511
    This is a war of values, and those in the West better dig down and get a little nasty.
This discussion has been closed.