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And a Steven Seagal movie
I'd be here all day if I listed all the idiots out there. What is a Stalinist if not a hard leftist?
Yeah I bet he'd be well impressed with the snivelling opportunist turning up at Glastonbury.
Don't be so sure of that.
Let's not forget his routine about trailer park single mothers relebtlessly dropping their little 'miracles' onto our overpopulated planet.
Bill played by his own rules and would rip the incumbent government and expose hypocrisy whoever it was so don't start making out he was a poster boy for the Socialist Worker.
Hicks might not jump on their train but he'd more likely side with them than the Tories and he'd definitely put the boot in with Trump, are you forgetting the stuff he did on Bush and his hilarious takes on the Kennedy assassination.
I've read a good few of the Hicks biographies and have been a fan since Revelations was originally broadcast on Channel 4.
Bill might not be a poster boy for the left wing but he certainly wasn't leaning politically as you are at times for sure and as for Stewart Lee he's perfectly aware how he's interpreted by the right wing press and utterly thrives on it.
To be honest the comedian that has come as close to Hicks in recent memory it's Frankie Boyle, he doesn't mind who he offends but also as some very astute political comments when you get past all the unsavoury stuff about Jordan but then people get offended about the wrong things, there is far worse going on in the world.
Yes he'd have probably been more likely but that makes him far from 'a fan' as you claim. I find the logical inferences you draw somewhat flawed; just because somebody doesn't like their food too salty it doesn't therefore follow that they therefore like it too sweet.
This quote from Bill suggests his political leanings, 'All governments are lying cocksuckers'.
He was only seemingly more anti Bush because that was the administration of the time. He'd have been similarly scathing to the likes of the Clintons and Blair.
And don't forget the political spectrum in America is somewhat skewed compared to the rest of the civilised world. For a boy from Texas to say you like reading books marks you down as a rabid lefty.
I wouldn't really say Boyle is anywhere near the same league as Hicks. Yes he has the offence nailed but he doesn't have the same political incision as Bill. I would suggest Doug Stanhope is as close to Hicks as we have these days.
Mind I'm sure we'd all agree that Boyle is a genius when set against the sanitised blandness and slappability of McIntyre et al. I love it when Stewart Lee rips into that odious little prick.
I wouldn't put anyone in Hicks league but Boyle says he's his biggest influence and is the only comedian that claims to be a fan in this country that seems to have taken proper influence from him.
Hicks was just a genius, funny, insightful and at times quite sincere, he was when it came down to a pretty decent guy who did have under all that cynicism that he just wanted a better world to live in, "it's just a ride"
While vacuous money whores like McIntyre, who according to a Channel 5 doc I had the misfortune to catch a bit of a few nights back is one of the highest paid comedians around. Peddling his lazy routines which is lapped up by the masses.
I respect Boyle for his 'I don't give a shit' attitude but I watched a few of his standups on Netflix a while back and amusing though it is (and let's be fair gags about Harvey never stop being funny for some reason) I was disappointed that they just seemed to be a collection of similes trying too hard to be offensive without having that much substance behind them. But at least he cites Bill Hicks as an influence. McIntyre probably has Joe Pasquale and Hale & Pace as his.
I'm pretty sure he's the highest, although actually he might have slipped to second behind Peter Kaye who, in his defence, at least had it once even if he has been a disgrace for over 15 years now. You want to be careful there mate randomly channel surfing. I've also had the misfortune of catching McIntyre by accident. It's cost me thousands in new tellys over the years because I have muscular condition that causes me to put my foot through the screen when I see this flopppy haired twat mincing across the screen like a horse at the dressage.
Although to be fair is it that McIntyre's inoffensiveness is so offensive or is it just the fact that the guy sells out Wembley and has the BBC desperate to give him series after series because he's so popular with the cretinous masses? A combination of both I would say although the latter is more soul destryoing. Stewart Lee's Comedy Vehicle gets axed but the Beeb can't stop throwing money at McIntwat. This is the society we're living in I'm afraid.
Actually I've just come up with an idea that might sort out a lot of the disagreements on this thread. I'm sure you'd be the first to join with me @Shardlake to say there should be a new law banning anyone who has ever bought a ticket to a McIntyre gig from being allowed to vote?
Was trawling through a bit of Hicks material following this discussion and can't believe I've never seen this before:
From 01.30 just about sums up my feelings towards the general population these days (although certainly watch the first 90 seconds too as they are also pretty spectacular).
I should perhaps have put in a disclaimer: 'If you're only used to watching Mcintyre's insipid dishwater routines then watching Bill Hicks lose his shit at heckler might cause you to have a cardiac arrest.'
Well, I'm a Stewart Lee fan like you, so no need to worry, Wiz!
I literally don't know what you're talking about.
What on earth is an 'imaginary delusion'?
Sounds like a meaningless tautology to me.
Still not 100% sure what your point is tbh. It seems to have expanded from a response to my original post into an unrelated general rant against 'the left'.
So in response to your extreme tangent, are there loons of all political persuasions? Sure. Are they all the same/ as bad as each other? Not sure I buy that one.
The centre of political gravity varies from country to country. In the UK and U.S. over recent years it's arguably moved much further to the right. Politicians of the left, such as Sanders and Corbyn, often depicted as 'swivel eyed loons' in the popular media, would be meanstream centrists in most of Europe and other developed nations. Most of what both of them advocates is already government policy in tjose famous basket cases like Germany, Sweden and Canada.
The Republicans opposed Obamacare every step of the way (as indeed they opposed almost everything he tried to do, no matter how uncontroversial) and are now proposing to strip healthcare from millions of Americans.
I don't know whether you're in denial about this but in much of the rest of the world the Republicans as they present themselves today would be classed as an extreme right wing party. Even the British Tories haven't yet got the confidence to openly advocate policies to deny poor people healthcare. They might dream about it but they're a long way off it still.
The U.S. Democrats would to be honest probably be a mainstream party of the European right. Hilary Clinton would definitley be more at home in the German Christian Democrats or French Guallist tradition than in either of those countries' respective left-wing parties.
Apart from the identity and racial politics of the U.S., which are quite unique, the whole political spectrum is about 90 degrees further to the right than Europe, Australia, Canada.
Yet in your analysis presumably the Dems are the intransigent extreme leftist wreckers because they want to stop insurance companies withdrawing cover from those with pre existing conditions?
If your centre of gravity is moved or different in the first place then extremism is all relative and anyone can be branded a lunatic. This is what Trump is brilliant at. He assumes what are such insanely extreme positions that he's shifted the whole centre of the debate, leaving people like John McCain looking like a placard carrying college campus hippy by comparison.
Don't buy into this relativism would be my advice. Your country needs a strong left more than ever.
It doesn't help matters, and only creates further divisions.
I know you lean left. I've seen it in your posts. No problem with that and it doesn't mean we can't have a debate on specific matters. I just dislike categorizations and labeling which demonize entire portions of the electorate or one side of the political spectrum. It's disingenuous.
Things are never that simple. Both sides have valid points and neither you nor I have the full facts with which to debate the benefits or costs of the American healthcare system. There are other discussion points where the left can't be so readily defended.
I only called you out on it because I respect your view on many matters and think you're a rational sort. I wouldn't have bothered with others who I know can't be reasoned with.
I dont think anyone ever said that people couldnt watch (or act in) whatever they want, just why would they want to?
I can understand an actor taking any part as they need to eat and its a uncertain job, but it strikes me as rather curious that if one is a committed Corbynite why would you be a fan of a fictional hero who went to Eton and is clearly part of the same elitist establishment as Boris and Jacob Rees Mogg (two popular figures of fun in this thread), kills foreigners for the government to safeguard Britains's imperialist position in the world (you note how M never sends Bond off to do battle with the Saudis?), treats women as sex objects, travels everywhere first class on the taxpayer and has food, drink, clothes watches and cars that the average Grenfell Tower resident can only dream about.
In a free society thank goodness we get our entertainment from wherever we please.
Most of us are capable of making distinctions between reality and Hollywood and only the most ideologically blinkered allow their politics to become the only prism through which they view film, literature, life.
Plenty of lefties like Bond. Is that such a revelation or surprise? The film series definitely wouldn't have survived as long as it has if it only appealed to imperialists and racists.
It's like saying you can't be on the political right and enjoy a film about Robin Hood because how could a conservative possibly tolerate a fictional character who steals from the rich to give to the poor?!
I'm sorry but your argument must be near the top of the list for daftest comment of the week.
Read this if you want to see how stupid your argument sounds put from the other political perspective.
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2008/mar/18/popandrock.politicsandthearts
That was pretty funny. Eton toffs not allowed to like The Smiths.
Speak for yourself. Personally I have no interest whatsoever in watching saccharin lefty propaganda like I Daniel Blake. I don't see what people can take from Bond when everything he does would have them frothing at the mouth.
And obviously I'm not talking about the casual viewer but the die hard Bond fan. As such a person I love nothing more than trying to emulate the Bond lifestyle of nice cars, food, wine, watches, hotels etc when I get the opportunity. But if you're a hardcore Corbynite who fervently believes in Jezza's philosophy I don't really see what there would be in Bond for you to enjoy?
Anyway you keep missing my point which is not that people can enjoy any film but why would you be a fan of someone like Bond if you also subscribe to Socialist Worker? Of course we can all enjoy any film on a superficial level (there are of course plenty of jingoistic American films that make you roll your eyes but it doesn't prevent you from enjoying them) but I'm talking about 'aspiring to live like Bond' (or want of a better description) which, as Bond fans, we often fantasise about doing.
Take the fabulous TheJamesBondLifestyle website: I don't see what there is to enjoy there if you spend all your time thinking 'That's a nice watch but of course it's disgusting that people are allowed to buy such decadent stuff when the NHS is in terminal decline and there are thousands of families not getting enough benefits due to the evil Tory cuts.'
Not to mention the unashamed Farage-esque little Englander populism of moments like the TSWLM ski jump.
You only have to look at the 'outrage' at Bond's whisky comment after Severine gets shot and his alleged 'rape' of her in the shower which was apparent proof that Bond films treat violence towards women as a joke to see that the hard left struggle to distinguish as easily as your good self between a fun Hollywood romp and the genuinely offensive.
You need a sense of humour to enjoy Bond and that's something in short supply on the left.
So you can't enjoy nice hotels, beautiful women or own a watch if you're on the left now? Someone really should have a word with that chap Daniel Craig - poor guy seems to have got it all wrong. Must tell him to ditch Rachael at the first opportunity. And send that watch back pronto.
Have you possibly been overdosing on the Daily Mail by any chance?
By the same token does your world view prohibit Tories from calling on the services of the NHS, or sending their kids to the local state primary school? What benefits could they possibly see in these dangerously leftist institutions after all?
So lefties don't have a sense of humour either, apparently. The ranks of Britain's more popular and successful comedians would suggest otherwise I suspect.
When it comes to a sense of humour I see more evidence of one in the bearded numpty that is Jezza Corbyn than I do in the Maybot.
You can by all means - I'm a libertarian. How you wrestle with your conscience sitting in your posh hotel drinking Don Perignon while the masses are being allowed to burn in their tower blocks is up to you. Wouldn't a committed lefty who has come into money rather spend it on paying more tax than indulging himself in luxuries that the proletariat can't afford?
Also not sure how you view things from over on the left but last time I checked beautiful women are not a commodity like cars and watches so everyone is free to try their luck at chatting them up. Although I think your chances are probably better if you're a millionaire bastard. I think it's known as the Mrs Merton phenomenon. Have to say though if a vote for Corbyn means Rachel Weisz available on the state I'm in.
If the likes of Daniel Craig and Stewart Lee want to call themselves committed leftists while trousering millions of pounds and living in their Islingtonista bubble that's to them. The hypocrisy of champagne socialism is so cliched it's beyond parody.
Enjoy the good life chaps because you've earned it through hard work and talent (via the disgusting capitalist system note) but please don't preach about the downtrodden millions to the rest of us whilst flashing the new Omega on your wrist.
Hypocrisy is as integral to the left as venality and charlatanism are to the right. Everyone knows that.
Any way, I'm not sure Bond film represents a political manifesto or world view in quite the same way that a Ken Loach film does. One is unabashed entertainment, the other a bit of social realist agit-prop. I might be totally naive but I somehow highly doubt that Broccoli and Salztman, Adam and Barry, saw themselves as involved in the creation of right wing propaganda when they set about making Dr. No.
I'm slightly concerned that you seem to be seriously suggesting people see Bond as a lifestyle guide - I thought that was something most of us gave up around the age of 12.
A more appropriate right-wing film equivalent to Ken Loach might be Triumph of the Will, The Birth of a Nation or anything with Chuck Norris. I don't see many right wingers flocking to watch them these days though, at least not out of a sense of political obligation.