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  • Posts: 19,339
    Let Gustav and Donald deal with it via PM's peeps..
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    barryt007 wrote: »
    'Our thoughts and prayers are with the victims and the families...blah blah...we mustn't let the extremists divide us...blah blah...we stand together in the face of those who seek to harm us and destroy our way of life...blah blah...pay tribute to the professionalism and bravery of the police and the emergency services...religion of peace...democratic values...blah blah...fanatics who follow a warped and perverted version of Islam...peace loving majority...blah fucking blah'

    Our feckless leaders just keep wheeling out the same old schtick.

    I wont lie here,i saw the situation on SKY News,shrugged,and turned over to something else.
    We know the procedure now what will happen,everyone talks bollocks,minutes silence at certain football matches,and then its onto the next time.

    And Spain issuing a national 3 days of mourning is playing straight into these B.O smelly,scruffy,thick individuals plans.

    They must be loving this,just how weak the West,particularly Europe,really are...

    The next round of 'Human Skittles' with a lorry/bus or truck should be October I would think.

    Have to say I did pretty much the same.

    Even though this was in one of the greatest cities in Europe I just shrugged and got on with my day like it was a bomb going off in Iraq or Afghanistan.

    I guess they've dragged us down to their level.
  • Posts: 19,339
    barryt007 wrote: »
    'Our thoughts and prayers are with the victims and the families...blah blah...we mustn't let the extremists divide us...blah blah...we stand together in the face of those who seek to harm us and destroy our way of life...blah blah...pay tribute to the professionalism and bravery of the police and the emergency services...religion of peace...democratic values...blah blah...fanatics who follow a warped and perverted version of Islam...peace loving majority...blah fucking blah'

    Our feckless leaders just keep wheeling out the same old schtick.

    I wont lie here,i saw the situation on SKY News,shrugged,and turned over to something else.
    We know the procedure now what will happen,everyone talks bollocks,minutes silence at certain football matches,and then its onto the next time.

    And Spain issuing a national 3 days of mourning is playing straight into these B.O smelly,scruffy,thick individuals plans.

    They must be loving this,just how weak the West,particularly Europe,really are...

    The next round of 'Human Skittles' with a lorry/bus or truck should be October I would think.

    Have to say I did pretty much the same.

    Even though this was in one of the greatest cities in Europe I just shrugged and got on with my day like it was a bomb going off in Iraq or Afghanistan.

    I guess they've dragged us down to their level.

    They have...it was bound to happen while people keep dying, and the auto response 'merry-go-round' ,quoted from the 'Terrorist Reaction for Europe' handbook, is always used.

  • Posts: 4,615
    The danger is that as we get more used to these attacks, they will look for something bigger. I agree with the previous comments re platitudes from our leaders. Would we see the same platitudes with 100 dead or 500? These guys are just looking for more effective ways to kill. If we dont stop them now, they will progress to bigger things.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,109
    Action is needed like many of the posters on here comisserations is not acceptable
  • edited August 2017 Posts: 11,425
    This is part of a long hard slog against jihadi scum. It will continue for a long time.

    I understand the anger on here but ultimately they will be beaten by our stronger resolve and moral strength, not by imposing martial law and a total surveillance police state.

    People also need to put everything that is happening in historical perspective. There is a LONG history of terrorist acts in European cities, including Barcelona. In fact Barcelona was an epicentre of anarchist terrorism in the 19th century. Eventually they were defeated.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/blood-rage-history-the-worlds-first-terrorists-1801195.html

    Then as now, all the terrorists want is media attention and a hysterical reaction from governments and the public.

    Quiet resolve and a 100% determination that these people will NOT change our way of life through hate and fear is the best thing us civilians can attempt to do.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,120
    Wise words, @Getafix.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Getafix wrote: »
    Then as now, all the terrorists want is media attention and a hysterical reaction from governments and the public.

    Quiet resolve and a 100% determination that these people will NOT change our way of life through hate and fear is the best thing us civilians can attempt to do.

    Exactly. Don't give it 24/7 media coverage for days and days, don't go on marches of solidarity, don't have minutes silences at football just shrug like you do when you hear about a pile up on the motorway and keep calm and carry on.

    Indifference and carrying on as usual is our greatest weapon.
  • Posts: 19,339
    So what does Spain do ,to show resolve and a 'we will carry on' mentality ?

    A 3 day national mourning period...perfect for your local ISIS media and publicity bureau.

    Pathetic.
  • Posts: 4,615
    @Getafix As with the IRA and the UK, Spain are facing are far bigger threat than before. Its a big mistake IMHO to play down the ISIS threat just because there have been previous terrorists.

    Linked to that, tech in the 19th Century was somewhat limited. Fair fewer ways to cause mass carnage plus our infrastructures are so much more complicated now and easier to disrupt (power, water, transport etc)

    Not sure how "moral strength" comes into it. They are as sure that they are morally right as we are and, unlike us, are prefectly happy to give up their current lives. Being morally strong is little defence against a lorry on a pavement, a suicide bomber or a dirty bomb.

    This "we've seen it all before" attitude concerns me greatly.
  • edited August 2017 Posts: 11,425
    Getafix wrote: »
    Then as now, all the terrorists want is media attention and a hysterical reaction from governments and the public.

    Quiet resolve and a 100% determination that these people will NOT change our way of life through hate and fear is the best thing us civilians can attempt to do.

    Exactly. Don't give it 24/7 media coverage for days and days, don't go on marches of solidarity, don't have minutes silences at football just shrug like you do when you hear about a pile up on the motorway and keep calm and carry on.

    Indifference and carrying on as usual is our greatest weapon.

    because that's exactly what I said isn't it?

    Please put aside the Armchair outrage and recognise that the work of fighting these people is by its nature largely covert and undercover.

    We are facing terrorists as we have done many times before. Read your history. Barcelona was almost brought to its knees by terror in the 19th century. That's not going to happen this time.

    The terrorists are weak both morally and militarily. They are self evidently pathetic losers. They will be beaten.

    Calm down and carry on.


  • Posts: 170
    Getafix wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    Then as now, all the terrorists want is media attention and a hysterical reaction from governments and the public.

    Quiet resolve and a 100% determination that these people will NOT change our way of life through hate and fear is the best thing us civilians can attempt to do.

    Exactly. Don't give it 24/7 media coverage for days and days, don't go on marches of solidarity, don't have minutes silences at football just shrug like you do when you hear about a pile up on the motorway and keep calm and carry on.

    Indifference and carrying on as usual is our greatest weapon.

    because that's exactly what I said isn't it?

    Please put aside the Armchair outrage and recognise that the work of fighting these people is by its nature largely covert and undercover.

    We are facing terrorists as we have done many times before. Read your history. Barcelona was almost brought to its knees by terror in the 19th century. That's not going to happen this time.

    The terrorists are weak both morally and militarily. They are self evidently pathetic losers. They will be beaten.

    Calm down and carry on.


    So all those in the muslim community that have sympathy with these terrorists doesn't concern you. Look at the demographics. This is not a problem of a few losers.
  • Posts: 19,339
    People don't even have to go to ISIS now,they are training and grooming them on a coded 'black internet' now,so this could easily go global without even physically moving to recruit.
  • edited August 2017 Posts: 4,615
    The fact that, as proved via this forum, as a society, we have no broad concensus re our interpretation of the level of threat and how best to respond is also pretty scary.

    Re "moral strength" , there are plenty of examples where one side had great moral strength but were wiped out via superior numbers.

    I'm not sure I agree with all Carlin says here, but his point about the vacuum of shallow consumerism is well made.

  • Posts: 11,425
    The same warnings have been made by the Daily Mail about the Irish and Jews in the past.

    If we have a 'Muslim problem' what's the solution?
  • Posts: 4,615
    We have circular discussions within this thread but IMHO, we have to get to the point when we relaise that there are key issues within Islaminc culture and the clash between that culture and Western liberal culture. We cant get to that point without open and honest debate and we cant have that debate at the moment due to a well meaning but misguided liberal agenda re the rights of any religion and also the complete lack of clarity of thought regarding the rights of a race and the rights of a religion.

    The recent resignation of Sarah Champion is the most recent example re our inability to have an open debate (and her thinking was messy). Any public figure who start to raise these topics gets a hammering from the liberal's.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    Police have shot and arrested a suspect who stabbed several people in Finland:

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/18/europe/finland-stabbing/index.html
  • Posts: 19,339
    Yep...1 dead apparently..i have a Finnish woman who works here and she is distraught...what the hell is going on ??!!
  • Posts: 12,526
    barryt007 wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    Absolutely terrible. It feels like it gets worse every year around the world - more and more terrorist attacks. Makes me sick and sad.

    Makes me fucking angry,pardon my French.

    It makes me angry too. I hate reading about something like this almost every week.

    Then we get the 'we are with you' and all the announcements from Presidents and PM's,TV coverage for a week,front page news,the solidarity comments,and then.............................nothing...until the next time and the whole process starts again....its pathetic.

    Barry you summed it up perfectly. The people who can act and do things about it just choose not too.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,716
    Stabbing in Dusseldorf. 1 dead and several wounded.
  • Posts: 7,507
    So for all these who 'are tired of the shit shat and crave "real action" to be taken':

    How? How are we supposed to fight terrorism more effectively than we already do? What actions exactly need to be taken to counter this trend?

    Id much rather hear your thoughts on this than tedius attacks on the "liberal apologists".
  • Posts: 170
    jobo wrote: »
    So for all these who 'are tired of the shit shat and crave "real action" to be taken':

    How? How are we supposed to fight terrorism more effectively than we already do? What actions exactly need to be taken to counter this trend?

    Id much rather hear your thoughts on this than tedius attacks on the "liberal apologists".

    Indefinite internment of islamist plot suspects
    shut down mosques found to be radically preaching (there will be a lot trust me)
    Shut down Islamic schools
    Stop all further muslim immigration
    Limit Immigration to only the highly skilled
    Get rid of all child benefit
    Tell the truth about islam


  • edited August 2017 Posts: 4,615
    Close all faith schools
    Ban all religeous iconography/clothing in schools
    Remove charitable status from all religious groups
    Actively encourage debate re the role of religion in liberal culture (especially Islam)
    Have proper controls on immigration
    Focus far more on the role of womans rights within religious culture
    Properly enforce law re FGM
    Stop confusing race with religion (when was the last time we heard our leaders make this point?)
    Try to end meaningless gestures as they act as a distraction
    Stop using the word "Islamaphobia" (just a word of little use)
    Have the guts to be honest about Saudi and other Islamic states
    Stop pandering to religious practices within mainstream culture (not sure how you do this)
    Look at legal controls re enforced gender segregation (ie Mosques - if woman want to pray alongside men, they can. If your religion does no allow this - tough)
    Crackdown on arranged marriages - again, it simply does not match Western values.

    In the long run, if you focus on womans rights, you undermine Islam.



  • Posts: 7,653
    I recently saw part 1 of a French documentary about the rise and downfall of the Red Brigades [Which was an Italian terrorist movement] and it is a terrible well made documentary and you can see the birth happening of this group of terrorists that changed the face of Italy and its politics. Very traditional reasons for upping to extreme violence.
  • Posts: 7,507
    patb wrote: »
    Close all faith schools
    Ban all religeous iconography/clothing in schools
    Remove charitable status from all religious groups
    Actively encourage debate re the role of religion in liberal culture (especially Islam)
    Have proper controls on immigration
    Focus far more on the role of womans rights within religious culture
    Properly enforce law re FGM
    Stop confusing race with religion (when was the last time we heard our leaders make this point?)
    Try to end meaningless gestures as they act as a distraction
    Stop using the word "Islamaphobia" (just a word of little use)
    Have the guts to be honest about Saudi and other Islamic states
    Stop pandering to religious practices within mainstream culture (not sure how you do this)
    Look at legal controls re enforced gender segregation (ie Mosques - if woman want to pray alongside men, they can. If your religion does no allow this - tough)
    Crackdown on arranged marriages - again, it simply does not match Western values.

    In the long run, if you focus on womans rights, you undermine Islam.




    If you ask me, such action will only make the situation worse...
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited August 2017 Posts: 23,883
    The_Donald wrote: »
    Indefinite internment of islamist plot suspects
    shut down mosques found to be radically preaching (there will be a lot trust me)
    Shut down Islamic schools
    Stop all further muslim immigration
    Limit Immigration to only the highly skilled
    Get rid of all child benefit
    Tell the truth about islam
    Mr. President, is it really you?
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    Getafix wrote: »

    Sounds like someone needs a few medals and a big, fat raise.
  • Posts: 11,425
    jobo wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    Close all faith schools
    Ban all religeous iconography/clothing in schools
    Remove charitable status from all religious groups
    Actively encourage debate re the role of religion in liberal culture (especially Islam)
    Have proper controls on immigration
    Focus far more on the role of womans rights within religious culture
    Properly enforce law re FGM
    Stop confusing race with religion (when was the last time we heard our leaders make this point?)
    Try to end meaningless gestures as they act as a distraction
    Stop using the word "Islamaphobia" (just a word of little use)
    Have the guts to be honest about Saudi and other Islamic states
    Stop pandering to religious practices within mainstream culture (not sure how you do this)
    Look at legal controls re enforced gender segregation (ie Mosques - if woman want to pray alongside men, they can. If your religion does no allow this - tough)
    Crackdown on arranged marriages - again, it simply does not match Western values.

    In the long run, if you focus on womans rights, you undermine Islam.




    If you ask me, such action will only make the situation worse...

    History and all objectively assessed evidence suggests you're right.
  • Posts: 170

    jobo wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    Close all faith schools
    Ban all religeous iconography/clothing in schools
    Remove charitable status from all religious groups
    Actively encourage debate re the role of religion in liberal culture (especially Islam)
    Have proper controls on immigration
    Focus far more on the role of womans rights within religious culture
    Properly enforce law re FGM
    Stop confusing race with religion (when was the last time we heard our leaders make this point?)
    Try to end meaningless gestures as they act as a distraction
    Stop using the word "Islamaphobia" (just a word of little use)
    Have the guts to be honest about Saudi and other Islamic states
    Stop pandering to religious practices within mainstream culture (not sure how you do this)
    Look at legal controls re enforced gender segregation (ie Mosques - if woman want to pray alongside men, they can. If your religion does no allow this - tough)
    Crackdown on arranged marriages - again, it simply does not match Western values.

    In the long run, if you focus on womans rights, you undermine Islam.




    If you ask me, such action will only make the situation worse...

    Yes because the current policy of appeasement is doing so well, just as it did in the years leading up to WW2
This discussion has been closed.