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It’s a huge risk but they have never been caught in at least the ten years they have been here.
There’s a lot of loop holes.
To each their own I guess. I will never be okay with people getting free college because of their skin color or non citizens benefiting off of other people.
As I said in my earlier post, the people coming across the border into the US are immigrants mostly. Not refugees. It is not a matter of persecution. Immigration is subject to the laws of the land. Any land. Follow the procedure and you are allowed in (and it may take years, but that's the way it goes).
This is the case in all the European countries where the other posters are from. I can't even understand why this is being discussed here as most posters should understand that every country has immigration rules and immigration criteria to abide by. Check your local laws if you're not aware of them.
I have immigrated through several countries in my life (with my parents and on my own). I have had to wait and follow stringent rules to live where I live and work where I work.
It's a pity you still come up with personal insults. I do understand your frustration. I don't understand why you take it out on the mexicans, as far as I can see it's your own boss paying them cash now isn't he? He's employing those illegals.
Then if you hate paying all those taxes (you haven't got the foggiest idea about how much taxes I pay and what a real social welfare state costs, but we'll put that aside for the moment) why do you vote for a party that's only going to increase your taxes and lower them for the super-rich? You're saying you're educated and experienced and I don't 'understand' these things and yet you are the one keeping this system running, you're the one keeping the rich in power and you're the one working for a company that pays these people in cash, whilst all they're trying to do is get some food for their family.
I would reccommend talking to them, visiting them and seeing what their family life is like before kicking them out of the country while they're actually working and trying to be part of the system you chose.
And yes, there are rotten apples, but are you now implying that there are no registered Americans who'd do such things? How about shooting up a church, was that a Mexican immigrant?
I've said it before and you've been ignoring that post, but where does your conviction come from that your media sources are right and others are wrong? Why would you consider Fox trustworthy and complain about the MSM, while Fox is as mainstream as it gets? Stop pointing at others and try to figure out what's really going on. At least @bondjames is trying to do that. We may not agree on the path to follow, (sometimes we do) but at least he's searching for facts, not impressions. He's pointing at the true culprits instead of the people who are just trying to get by.
Who said I watch Fox News or hate anyone? The fact that it is against the law to be here illegally is a give away.
Are you basically saying Mexico is a trashy horrible place?
Liberals/Democrats are the ones that advocated for raising taxes for “free college”, right now under the new tax plan I would be saving money. It’s going from 15% to 12%, I am in no way one of the wealthy ones but to say people like me wont save money is crazy. CNN is biased and one sided. So is Fox News. I hate how the media doesn’t actually say “Well here’s what’s happening in the world and take it how you want..” CNN just had to retract multiple stories because it was fake and made up. I could careless about people who are here illegally. I barely make enough money to support myself and to pay my own bills.
The fact that people on this thread think we should “make all drugs legal” for example is insane. To each their own I guess.. It’s like I said before, I am not personally attacking you I just think you have no right to judge when you don’t live near the Mexican border or live in America.
@bondjames is saying virtually the same thing that you have to follow the law to legally come here, you can’t just sneak in illegally. There are laws in place all over the world.
They give you 3% to make it seem like you're really getting something and hit you harder in other places. SMDH
Whether that judgement is correct is obviously a matter of opinion and clearly, if we disagree with your opinion, we are insane (bit of a pattern there). Anyone who disagrees with your personal opinion is insane.
You have every right to judge what's happening here in the UK or any other country and you may add something usefull. Thats the benefit of open and honest debate.
It's not insane. Saying something is "legal" means it can be controlled and taxed. Seems kind of hypocritical to me that alcohol and prescription opioids are perfectly legal, while marijuana and cocaine aren't. I'm not saying it is THE solution, but what we are doing now, by pouring millions into a "war on drugs," is a waste of time and money.
Furthermore @CASINOROYALE I am not sure anyone is saying "Hey, let's let all the people in." You'd be interested to know that the Obama administration deported more illegal immigrants than GWB did. But our approach to the issue needs to be humane and respectful. What we are seeing now is a scapegoating of Mexicans (and really, outright racism) ever since the economic downturn in 2008. Prior to that, even Republicans, like Reagan, took a laissz-faire approach to illegal immigration. In fact, Reagan signed bills to help Mexicans stay in the U.S. because low-wage farm workers were good for California.
And then along came Obama and, voila!, we suddenly had an immigration problem, one that had been ignored for decades. It's laughable.
When the banks went belly up and home values declined, somehow the "illegals" were to blame. They were the ones getting in the way of all of us not achieving our dreams. But the blame really lies with Wall Street and the banking industry. The blame, as always, lies at the feet of corporate greed. For the past thirty years, the divide between the wealthiest and poorest citizens has grown. How is that? Why is that? Because of Mexicans? Pleeeeease.
So what has happened over the past ten years is finger-pointing at "them illegals" as a source of all our problems. Reality is, they are not a major source of problems our country faces. They are merely an easy target. Yeah, if we can just build a big wall, it will save all our problems. Will it? We'll spend billions on this thing and then...they still still find ways in. Tunneling under it is one. Simply climbing over it is another. When people are desperate enough, they find a way.
First of all, most don't get paid cash. Maybe if you're hired on a daily basis by a homeowner wanting to get somebody to mow his lawn that day. But the state of CA makes it mighty hard to regularly hire people that don't have the proper paperwork. And the vast majority of legitimate businesses are paying their employees by check or direct deposit. This means that there's a thriving market for counterfeit Social Security cards and various forms of ID.
Most illegal workers that present fraudulent IDs do indeed have taxes withheld from their paychecks -- they just don't file tax returns and therefore don't receive tax refunds. The government gets to keep every penny withheld from their paychecks. Unsurprisingly, the government does not have too much of a problem with this particular aspect of the situation regarding illegal workers.
As far as the rest of the giveaways some folks want you to believe in -- as soon as @chrisisall locates the reality of these giveaways, I hope he'll tell me. I'll be in line with the shoe polish right behind him!
Oh well, back to paying taxes so I can help in funding Corporate Welfare and our lovely Saudi friends. Say, did you catch the beheading of that last girl ? Cool beans, yo!
(Yeah, I'm not laughing at my angry sarcasm either)
The conservatives can try to push the blame on to immigrants and Obama, but at the end of the day it's about the natural ditection the country is headed. China will be the new economic superpower. What is worrying is that USA is detoriorating in every way. With an incredible lack of common knowledge and education, 19th century consevative views on religion and policy, conservative propaganda where lying has become the norm, corruption etc. Proper welfare is badly needed more than ever for the groving unemployment rate and working class. Instead the government's solution is to strip the people of health care and raise the divide in tax rates, only accelarating the divide and misery. Instead of having politicians in the pocket of wealthy business owners with privat agendas, they now have a president who puts these privat people directly in power. "Drain the swump" my ass!
Immigrants and non white americans are the scape goats, unjustly being blamed for everything wrong. Add to that constant attacks on the free press, and you have a completely toxic and hopeless environment. Being born a US citizen is in no way a privilege anymore. The country is heading for the cliff. Fast.
Another zinger from the peanut gallery.
If anything they'd want to sell it to her!
But I'm happy you're not taking their word for it, because they're lying and manipulating. Not that CNN is doing that much better, it isn't easy getting to the truth, but logical thinking helps at least deviding the utter nonsense from the possible.
Mexico isn't a horrible trashy place (That's India) but it isn't the loveliest country in the world for sure. I didn't stay there too long but the amount of deaths especially because of the ongoing drug wars take their toll and as it stands many try to flee the violence.
You're paying 15% tax? Man you haven't got a clue what tax paying means! We have a progressive system which starts at 36% ( https://www.expatax.nl/tax-rates-2017 )
And next to income tax we have the mandatory health insurance, VAT (21% on fun things, 6% food), and petrol for my car is a blast, I pay 1,53 euro a liter ($1,79) or $6,77 per gallon. Of that money 75% goes directy into the coffers of our government.
But the fun thing is we have minimum wages which are so high that even the minimum wages can afford TV's and that kind of stuff, which keeps the economy going like a rocket. We have a social security system where people can actually buy food if they're jobless and take care of their children and while doing so that money goes into the economy. But you prefer to stay under payed so the owner of your company can buy his next luxury car but he won't because there's no need for it. That, after all, is the wonder of the trickle down economy. It's your choice. And all I've been saying is it's not fair to blame it on immigrants, legal or illigal.
@bondjames again I thought so too, but the idea of keeping those who're willing to work and sending back those who won't does appeal. At the same time I think it's better to invest in those countries and create jobs there, so you won't have immigrants coming over, other then for usefull purposes.
Over here (Western Europe) we've had a big influx of useless immigrants lately, and a government that seems to be willing to keep the useless and kick the ones who want to work out. Why I don't know but that's what I've seen and it's supported by an perverted industry which makes money out of these 'poor refugees'. Again it's the politics and the show for tv that matters, not the actual lives of people. Our pokiticians may not be as corrupt as they are in the US, but they're doing their best.
Most western nations that I know of either have a 'points' based skills system (depending on what credentials and experience is needed), or an investor program (where someone parks money in the country in a designated investment determined by the govt) or a business program (where one commits to starting a going concern which employs workers) to gain entry and then citizenship is granted once an individual meets certain criteria over a period of time as a permanent resident (or in the case of the US, as a green card holder).
It's not so much about working necessarily (although that's of course essential), but rather what skills are important for the country in relation to what its particular employment needs are. That is different for each country and everyone is competing for the best talent.
What is not acceptable (imho) is to have anyone coming in as and when they want, irrespective of whether they want to work or not. The point is whether their skills are needed. If not, then those with required skills must be prioritized (and those whose skills aren't required will have a longer wait to gain entry). Ultimately, the process must be managed.
It's the same as with the differnce between trickle-down and a social welfare system. The latter just as a far bigger turnover.
Again, not that we don't need highly educated people, we do. but focussing on the top makes us forget where the real profits lie.
The US situation is an interesting one, because it borders far poorer countries (on the southern end), thereby impacting the skills it gets from the workers who come in. Germany has similar issues due to its skills base and living standards in comparison to its immediate neighbours, and as far as I'm aware, they have very strict rules on who can become a German citizen (save for the refugees they let in).
EDIT: Regarding the news - it's pretty bad these days globally. Given the impact of the internet and bloggers, paid news is increasingly going the salacious route in order to get readers. One has to be very skeptical and take in opposing news sources to get a balanced perspective. If you watch CNN, then watch Fox too. Even take in BBC, RT, Deutsche Welle and Al Jazeera from time to time for the entire global perspective. We have so many sources now that there is no excuse not to be informed. However, it would be foolish to believe any one source, because what poses as 'news' these days is what was considered 'op-ed' in the past.
You are actually advicing people to watch Fox News? For crying out loud!
I watch and read Norwegian news medias, BBC, The Guardian, CNN almost every day. They usually have fairly similar reports on world events. Fox News is completely different. It is not even a proper news medium! The whole chanel is a scam! Pure propaganda!
Are you actually being serious here?
Please don't tell me you're trusting CNN? They used to play to the middle and their ratings were going into the toilet. They've found their ability to make money by jumping on the anti-Trump bandwagon. I wouldn't be surprised if Trump is in on it to be honest, given his reality background. Who do you think gave him his biggest platform during the primaries? It's the 'wrestling' game. Someone has to be the big bad and that person sometimes brings in the biggest viewership. He started off as the 'good guy' and now he's turned 'heel'. Ratings up. It's all a big show to wind up people. A passionate audience gives you ratings. A disengaged one doesn't.
The US Govt. has just labeled RT as a foreign agent and restricted their access. Have you watched RT? Anyone who views shows like the Keiser Report or Crosstalk will realize why the US is trying to target them. Are those shows biased against US foreign policy and corporate interests? Of course they are. However one must view it in order to get perspective.
The repeated idea that there are "two extremes" in American news coverage is simply not true! (I was contemplating using 'ridiculous' or 'ludicrous', but you are known to be sensitive...).
Even the most "leftist" (yeah right!) news broadcaster at CNN would be classified as moderate in my country and most of Europe overall. Bernie Sanders is considered an "extreme" socialist in America, simply because he wants to implement some of the minimal welfare most of the world takes for granted. Here he would be a member of the conservative branch. No, I am not kidding! The level of reactionary conservatism in the US baffles europeans. We used to think Reagen, Bush, McCain and Romney were extreme... and now you gave us this! There is only one 'extreme' side in mainstream American politics. Claiming anything else is absurd. You can easily judge this by comparing USA to other countries.
In news there are serius media and there is propaganda. As I said I watch CNN quite regularly because I want to know American perspective on things. I also follow European news mediums, both Norwegian and English media. CNN's coverage is, as you'd expect, very America biased and conservative. Yes, conservative. But at least they are reasonably truthful and reliable in their coverage of worldwide events, and it's usually quite on the same wavelength as most news coverage here. Whenever I watch Fox News however, I either laugh, shake my head, pull my hear or throw fists at my computer! It is completely insane to any non American that such a chanel can even exist in a so called civilized country. Their coverage is conservatively biased to the extreme, and even worse, they seem to have no shame in lying or manipulating news. They even construct absolutely infathomable conspiracy theories that would make any rational human being crack up if they weren't so sadly serious and disgusting!
There are not "two extremes" in American news. It's the fairly rational free press, and it's the Republican propaganda machine!
Ahh, yep.
Back in the 80's I was following the so-called leftist (I considered them merely a bit left of centre myself) coverage on the Reagan era. A lot of them were dismissed as nutcases. Lo and behold almost ALL of what they were saying proved nearly 100% true in hindsight. Although not a 'Leftist' myself, I've found that the American road to fascism is (and has been) paved with the good(?) intentions of Corporate Republicans.
I'm quite aware of the European perspective and the UK perspective. I lived in the UK for many years. America has never been as liberal as Europe. It will never be. It's just not in the country's DNA. There is an element that prefers a more socially oriented policy, but the country is split. EDIT: And the UK is not as left leaning as most of Europe either.
I'm not American - so from an outside perspective Trump is a type of gollum that I pray we don't create in my own country. He is a warning to the rest of us that we should not take our democratic institutions for granted to the point where they become infested by self-serving, partisan extremists who would support paedophiles simply because not doing it would mean the opposition would win - and of course - that is the worst possible outcome apparently.
So you are claiming that CNN America and CNN International are completely different, one being a serius news chanel, and the other being 'leftist propaganda'. Sorry, but I am not even close to buying it! When I spent almost two weeks in America this summer, I watched CNN every day. I was never surprised or baffled by what I saw.
But you are seriously baffling me! You claim to be familiar with European news coverage, and yet you claim Fox News is a legitimate medium, only representing "the other side of the argument"? I am simply stunned if you can say this with a straight face (I cannot see it, onviously)!