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  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,798
    Can't speak for Twitter...but I'm not impressed by the non-results of the summit, and I think Trump is an ass. Nonetheless, I'm not in favor of nuclear war. Hope that isn't too nuanced for you...
    That was very diplomatic.
    One of my internet-only friends told me yesterday that he loved Trump during a comment on Robert DeNiro, and I instantly unfriended him. A real-life AND internet friend said I was mean for doing so, then told me she actually kinda likes Trump, and I told her that I would not instantly unfriend her. I said we could discuss it a bit before I unfriended her. I've had it with that POS & anyone who backs his cause. I've NEVER hated a President to the core like this. Nixon & Clinton were boyscouts by comparison.
  • Posts: 7,507
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Can't speak for Twitter...but I'm not impressed by the non-results of the summit, and I think Trump is an ass. Nonetheless, I'm not in favor of nuclear war. Hope that isn't too nuanced for you...
    That was very diplomatic.
    One of my internet-only friends told me yesterday that he loved Trump during a comment on Robert DeNiro, and I instantly unfriended him. A real-life AND internet friend said I was mean for doing so, then told me she actually kinda likes Trump, and I told her that I would not instantly unfriend her. I said we could discuss it a bit before I unfriended her. I've had it with that POS & anyone who backs his cause. I've NEVER hated a President to the core like this. Nixon & Clinton were boyscouts by comparison.


    I think it is a good attitude to have. More important than having friends is having good friends. Having bad friends just for the sake of being friends is not really to be desired. That is not to say different political views cannot be tolerated, but if you are an intelligent, well informed person that supports this presidency, it paints an ugly picture of your personality and your morals. I would do the same in your situation.

    And I am writing this knowing that Trump supporters might read this. It is my opinion, sorry...
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,534
    Ending real-life friendships because you don't have the same political views. Well, at least we like a lot of the same Bond films.
  • edited June 2018 Posts: 628
    jobo wrote: »
    That is not to say different political views cannot be tolerated, but if you are an intelligent, well informed person that supports this presidency, it paints an ugly picture of your personality and your morals. I would do the same in your situation.

    I've unfollowed or, in extreme cases, unfriended pretty much anyone (right or left) who pollutes my Facebook/Twitter feeds with their grandstanding political crap.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,798
    Remington wrote: »
    Ending real-life friendships because you don't have the same political views. Well, at least we like a lot of the same Bond films.

    I've had friends that like all manner of dolts in the White House, disagree with me on topics, debate me on any & every issue, but Trump is different. I'll go as far as to say he's basically evil. I don't say that lightly. He's not a liberal or conservative issue- he's a danger to this country (and the world). HE is a national security issue. One of my oldest friends from High School told me a few years back that he was a lifelong Republican, and proud of it. I have not discussed Trump with him. I'm afraid to. Because if he demonstrates anything but disgust for his blatant fascism and rampant destruction of our democracy at large, I'd unfriend him in an instant and never speak to him again. How many people know that his new pal Kim had FAMILIES executed- and that fat fuck ADMIRES him???
  • Posts: 7,507
    Remington wrote: »
    Ending real-life friendships because you don't have the same political views. Well, at least we like a lot of the same Bond films.


    You don´t get my point. It is about far more than merely different political views. It is about your values as a person. If you are Trump supporter (that is well informed and not just blinded by propaganda that is) it gives away what ethics you have as a human being. I know that none of my friends are, simply because I would instinctly turn away from people with moral values and a world view that could make them a Trump supporter in the first place.

  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,534
    Well, I respect your opinions so I'm going to leave it at that.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited June 2018 Posts: 12,480
    You are right, Chris.
    And here we are making some progress, but more action needs to happen more quickly, obviously, on many fronts. Especially the immigration issue.

    But wheels are turning (as @jobo also mentioned aboved). NY AG files suit, refers to DOJ and IRS (all 3 links on about this news):



    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/new-york-files-suit-against-president-trump-alleging-his-charity-engaged-in-illegal-conduct/2018/06/14/c3cbf71e-6fc9-11e8-bd50-b80389a4e569_story.html?utm_term=.31e1f8f6ef99


  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,255
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Remington wrote: »
    Ending real-life friendships because you don't have the same political views. Well, at least we like a lot of the same Bond films.

    I've had friends that like all manner of dolts in the White House, disagree with me on topics, debate me on any & every issue, but Trump is different. I'll go as far as to say he's basically evil. I don't say that lightly. He's not a liberal or conservative issue- he's a danger to this country (and the world). HE is a national security issue. One of my oldest friends from High School told me a few years back that he was a lifelong Republican, and proud of it. I have not discussed Trump with him. I'm afraid to. Because if he demonstrates anything but disgust for his blatant fascism and rampant destruction of our democracy at large, I'd unfriend him in an instant and never speak to him again. How many people know that his new pal Kim had FAMILIES executed- and that fat fuck ADMIRES him???
    This is the summation of what (especially) American (US) politics have amounted to for the last decades, and the shortcomings of the two-party system: power has overruled all other aspects of political life. Nobody opposed Clinton (Hillary) because of her ideas, but all because of her political life. It was all 'House of Cards'. Why a cheating, lying and bluffing business man would be different in the eyes of the public is beyond me, but I guess it basically tells us the educational system is completely flawed. How else would Fox News, one of, if not the biggest media companies in the US get away with blaming the 'main stream media'.
    If it wasn't for the power play how else would the electors, who'se sole purpose is to keep tyrants away from the presidential seat, allow Trump, who already showed his lack of moral behaviour and his tyrannical tendancies to ascent to the job?

    But I guess his supporters don't care about the rest of the world, or other people within their own country. They only take away the 'good', even if it's as flimsy as can be, and ignore the bad. The economy is booming so Trump must be right. Even if it means you're destroying the grounds your grandchildren were supposed to live in. That doesn't matter because god will save them or something along those lines. I hope the new imposed tarriffs will show them just in time why those are, and always have been a bad idea. Every single country that closed itself up for international trade has had to suffer for it. From Ming-China to the Ottoman Empire, and of course all European countries in the 1920's. Yes, it was one of the causes of the great depression.

    America First is the self-centered reaction of a self-centered egomaniac who cares only for himself and his image.

    Still I don't agree with the sentiment that you shouldn't discuss all these things. Everybody is entitled to his own opinion. It's only through discussion one can find new insights. I can understand the disgust against Trump's supporters, but at the same time, without an open discussion, the public weighing of arguments has no ground and it'll be a us-good-them-bad rethoric which indeed is the basis of how this man became president in the first place.

    I've been very impressed by Senator McCain. Not because of his political views, but because he seemed the only sane man in Washington. He was one of the few always ready to discuss, the one who stuck to his moral values and wasn't swayed by power politics.

    So if @Remington or others want to make his support for Trump known and explained, they shouldn't have to fear personal attacks. @Chrisisall if you want your country to change, don't unfriend, but start the debate. As soon as the Trump supporter lets his position known, reply with arguments, not with personal attacks. It's the only way, other than taking up arms, which I highly reccommend not to do. Unless you're following some classes somewhere.
  • Posts: 11,425
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Remington wrote: »
    Ending real-life friendships because you don't have the same political views. Well, at least we like a lot of the same Bond films.

    I've had friends that like all manner of dolts in the White House, disagree with me on topics, debate me on any & every issue, but Trump is different. I'll go as far as to say he's basically evil. I don't say that lightly. He's not a liberal or conservative issue- he's a danger to this country (and the world). HE is a national security issue. One of my oldest friends from High School told me a few years back that he was a lifelong Republican, and proud of it. I have not discussed Trump with him. I'm afraid to. Because if he demonstrates anything but disgust for his blatant fascism and rampant destruction of our democracy at large, I'd unfriend him in an instant and never speak to him again. How many people know that his new pal Kim had FAMILIES executed- and that fat fuck ADMIRES him???

    I have a friend who is a lifelong Republican who voted Clinton because he felt so strongly Trump was unsuited to be POTUS. He's obviously in a minority but they do exist.

    He pretty much acknowledged the other day tho that the party of Lincoln is finished. Trump is going to leave a hollowed out populist, white supremacist extremist movement where there used to be a political party.

    I'm not really sure Trump cares very much about the US. He is and always has been a one man self promotion and self enrichment bandwagon. His businesses are absolutely coining it ( as are those of his children). His 'charities have been exposed as fronts for paying off fines for his business interests. He's screwed over small contractors and thousands of ordinary working Americans on his construction projects.

    He puts Trump first and the US second.


  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited June 2018 Posts: 9,117
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Remington wrote: »
    Ending real-life friendships because you don't have the same political views. Well, at least we like a lot of the same Bond films.

    I've had friends that like all manner of dolts in the White House, disagree with me on topics, debate me on any & every issue, but Trump is different. I'll go as far as to say he's basically evil. I don't say that lightly. He's not a liberal or conservative issue- he's a danger to this country (and the world). HE is a national security issue. One of my oldest friends from High School told me a few years back that he was a lifelong Republican, and proud of it. I have not discussed Trump with him. I'm afraid to. Because if he demonstrates anything but disgust for his blatant fascism and rampant destruction of our democracy at large, I'd unfriend him in an instant and never speak to him again. How many people know that his new pal Kim had FAMILIES executed- and that fat fuck ADMIRES him???
    And it’s posts like that that will get him a second term.

    Offering a credible alternative is the only solution as shouting that everyone who votes for him (note the key word ‘vote’ there - he didn’t seize power, the people gave it him so they can also be persuaded to take it from him) is a racist Nazi just feeds into his rhetoric.

    It’s not their brilliant campaigns that won Brexit and Trump it’s the pathetic, abject state of arrogant, entitled career politicians like Hilary, Cameron and Juncker who expected people to just do as they have always done and go along with their hypocrisy and bullshit.

    If you can’t persuade more people to vote for you than vote for Trump then you really need to take a look in the mirror but these people who have never done a day’s work in their lives have done nothing to address their failure. I couldn’t even tell you who the main Democrat opposition is to Trump. They come out of the woodwork a year before the election. And the UK is even worse, just a total vacuum of anything in parliament except total and utter ineptitude from all sides. Where is the American or British Macron? Not that I’m particularly a fan but he showed the intelligence to seize the initiative when the mainstream politicians were paralysed.

    Western democracy is in a shit state and blaming the symptom, which is all that Trump is, isn’t the solution. We need to look at the root cause and treat that.
  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    Posts: 2,722
    The election of Trump to POTUS has accelerated the collapse of the American Empire. It is a signifier of everything that is wrong with the political system and the division in the country. The only credible alternative to Trump was Sanders.

    I still think Trump's greatest political achievement was winning the RNC - not beating Hilary which comes down to straight division of Republican and Democrat. But he went toe-to-toe with governors, senators and previous presidential nominees for months and he wiped the floor with every one of them. The party he was running for didn't want him and eventually he got them to bend to his will.

    No one believes the media. People just make their own facts and watch shows or share links to articles that confirm their world views. Trump may be guilty but he will never be impeached or imprisoned - people need to accept that almost as quickly as people need to accept that Martin Campbell won't direct another Bond film.
  • Posts: 7,507
    The election of Trump to POTUS has accelerated the collapse of the American Empire. It is a signifier of everything that is wrong with the political system and the division in the country. The only credible alternative to Trump was Sanders.

    I still think Trump's greatest political achievement was winning the RNC - not beating Hilary which comes down to straight division of Republican and Democrat. But he went toe-to-toe with governors, senators and previous presidential nominees for months and he wiped the floor with every one of them. The party he was running for didn't want him and eventually he got them to bend to his will.

    No one believes the media. People just make their own facts and watch shows or share links to articles that confirm their world views. Trump may be guilty but he will never be impeached or imprisoned - people need to accept that almost as quickly as people need to accept that Martin Campbell won't direct another Bond film.



    I am not so sure about that... Trump has not one but several serius legal investigations against him. If the results are serius enough, even the GOP has to give in and impeach him, regardless of what Fox News or the fanatic Trump cult believe. There is a limit to everything...
  • Posts: 5,993
    D4qbcxz.jpg

    I always had the impression that Trump was a James Bond villain come to life. But he's not Goldfinger, no. He's more like Milton Krest, as described by Ian Fleming in "The Hildebrandt Rarity".
  • chrisisall wrote: »
    Remington wrote: »
    Ending real-life friendships because you don't have the same political views. Well, at least we like a lot of the same Bond films.

    I've had friends that like all manner of dolts in the White House, disagree with me on topics, debate me on any & every issue, but Trump is different. I'll go as far as to say he's basically evil. I don't say that lightly. He's not a liberal or conservative issue- he's a danger to this country (and the world). HE is a national security issue. One of my oldest friends from High School told me a few years back that he was a lifelong Republican, and proud of it. I have not discussed Trump with him. I'm afraid to. Because if he demonstrates anything but disgust for his blatant fascism and rampant destruction of our democracy at large, I'd unfriend him in an instant and never speak to him again. How many people know that his new pal Kim had FAMILIES executed- and that fat fuck ADMIRES him???
    And it’s posts like that that will get him a second term.

    Offering a credible alternative is the only solution as shouting that everyone who votes for him (note the key word ‘vote’ there - he didn’t seize power, the people gave it him so they can also be persuaded to take it from him) is a racist Nazi just feeds into his rhetoric.

    It’s not their brilliant campaigns that won Brexit and Trump it’s the pathetic, abject state of arrogant, entitled career politicians like Hilary, Cameron and Juncker who expected people to just do as they have always done and go along with their hypocrisy and bullshit.

    If you can’t persuade more people to vote for you than vote for Trump then you really need to take a look in the mirror but these people who have never done a day’s work in their lives have done nothing to address their failure. I couldn’t even tell you who the main Democrat opposition is to Trump. They come out of the woodwork a year before the election. And the UK is even worse, just a total vacuum of anything in parliament except total and utter ineptitude from all sides. Where is the American or British Macron? Not that I’m particularly a fan but he showed the intelligence to seize the initiative when the mainstream politicians were paralysed.

    Western democracy is in a shit state and blaming the symptom, which is all that Trump is, isn’t the solution. We need to look at the root cause and treat that.

    The main fallacy here is the belief that more people voted for Trump than for Hillary. Not true. She had about 3 million more votes than he did. It was the Electoral College that gave the presidency to Trump, just as it gave the office to Bush ll over Gore in 2000. I'm not going to argue that Hillary didn't make some some abysmal moves in running her campaign -- and we'll never be able to quantify exactly how much Russian meddling or Comey's improper behavior influenced the election results -- but in simple "who got the most votes" math, Trump lost.
  • Oh, and BTW, @Wiz: you're not my first choice to be instructing others on the best rhetoric to use in order to persuade, rather than offend, others. But wth, we live in interesting times.
  • edited June 2018 Posts: 628
    The main fallacy here is the belief that more people voted for Trump than for Hillary. Not true. She had about 3 million more votes than he did. It was the Electoral College that gave the presidency to Trump, just as it gave the office to Bush ll over Gore in 2000. I'm not going to argue that Hillary didn't make some some abysmal moves in running her campaign -- and we'll never be able to quantify exactly how much Russian meddling or Comey's improper behavior influenced the election results -- but in simple "who got the most votes" math, Trump lost.

    The Great Hillary -- who is supposed to be a seasoned politician, but has proven herself to be as inept as Trump in running a campaign -- should have been well aware of the influence of the electoral college and exploited it, just as Trump did.

    Instead, Hillary got entitled and complacent, and karma delivered her an embarrassing defeat.

    As much as the crazier Dems will shriek to the heavens about "Popular votes!!" and "Collusion!!" the fact of the matter is, Trump won the election, fair and square.

  • Posts: 7,507
    Oh, and BTW, @Wiz: you're not my first choice to be instructing others on the best rhetoric to use in order to persuade, rather than offend, others. But wth, we live in interesting times.


    ;))
  • Posts: 7,507
    Escalus5 wrote: »
    The main fallacy here is the belief that more people voted for Trump than for Hillary. Not true. She had about 3 million more votes than he did. It was the Electoral College that gave the presidency to Trump, just as it gave the office to Bush ll over Gore in 2000. I'm not going to argue that Hillary didn't make some some abysmal moves in running her campaign -- and we'll never be able to quantify exactly how much Russian meddling or Comey's improper behavior influenced the election results -- but in simple "who got the most votes" math, Trump lost.

    The Great Hillary -- who is supposed to be a seasoned politician, but has proven herself to be almost as inept as Trump in running a campaign -- should have been well aware of the influence of the electoral college and exploited it, just as Trump did.

    Instead, Hillary got entitled and complacent, and karma delivered her an embarrassing defeat.

    As much as the crazier Dems will shriek to the heavens about "Popular votes!!" and "Collusion!!" the fact of the matter is, Trump won the election, fair and square.


    "The fact of the matter"??

    The fact is that the full extent of the collusion is for the moment in time known to the investigators only. Only when the results are made official will we know the facts of the matter!

    And do you seriously suggest that the hacked revelations, published daily with the purpose of ruining Hillary's campaign, had absolutely no effect at all om the outcome of the election? Come on!
  • edited June 2018 Posts: 628
    jobo wrote: »
    "The fact of the matter"??

    The fact is that the full extent of the collusion is for the moment in time known to the investigators only. Only when the results are made official will we know the facts of the matter!

    And do you seriously suggest that the hacked revelations, published daily with the purpose of ruining Hillary's campaign, had absolutely no effect at all om the outcome of the election? Come on!

    You mean the hacked revelations that told us the DNC had rigged the nomination process against Sanders, and that Donna Brazile was feeding debate questions to Hillary?

    Pfft. No sympathy for those losers.

    I'm also not going to feel sorry for the folks who couldn't distinguish between legitimate news sources and Russian propaganda. Maybe they shouldn't be voting.

  • Escalus5 wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    "The fact of the matter"??

    The fact is that the full extent of the collusion is for the moment in time known to the investigators only. Only when the results are made official will we know the facts of the matter!

    And do you seriously suggest that the hacked revelations, published daily with the purpose of ruining Hillary's campaign, had absolutely no effect at all om the outcome of the election? Come on!

    You mean the hacked revelations that told us the DNC had rigged the nomination process against Sanders, and that Donna Brazile was feeding debate questions to Hillary?

    Pfft. No sympathy for those losers.

    I'm also not going to feel sorry for the folks who couldn't distinguish between legitimate news sources and Russian propaganda. Maybe they shouldn't be voting.

    You may note that I already acknowledged Hillary's deficiencies as a candidate. And I don't feel sorry for the idiots who were deceived into voting for Trump. I feel sorry for the entire WORLD, which now has to live with the impact of his being in a position that he is in no way suited to hold.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,255
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Remington wrote: »
    Ending real-life friendships because you don't have the same political views. Well, at least we like a lot of the same Bond films.

    I've had friends that like all manner of dolts in the White House, disagree with me on topics, debate me on any & every issue, but Trump is different. I'll go as far as to say he's basically evil. I don't say that lightly. He's not a liberal or conservative issue- he's a danger to this country (and the world). HE is a national security issue. One of my oldest friends from High School told me a few years back that he was a lifelong Republican, and proud of it. I have not discussed Trump with him. I'm afraid to. Because if he demonstrates anything but disgust for his blatant fascism and rampant destruction of our democracy at large, I'd unfriend him in an instant and never speak to him again. How many people know that his new pal Kim had FAMILIES executed- and that fat fuck ADMIRES him???
    And it’s posts like that that will get him a second term.

    Offering a credible alternative is the only solution as shouting that everyone who votes for him (note the key word ‘vote’ there - he didn’t seize power, the people gave it him so they can also be persuaded to take it from him) is a racist Nazi just feeds into his rhetoric.

    It’s not their brilliant campaigns that won Brexit and Trump it’s the pathetic, abject state of arrogant, entitled career politicians like Hilary, Cameron and Juncker who expected people to just do as they have always done and go along with their hypocrisy and bullshit.

    If you can’t persuade more people to vote for you than vote for Trump then you really need to take a look in the mirror but these people who have never done a day’s work in their lives have done nothing to address their failure. I couldn’t even tell you who the main Democrat opposition is to Trump. They come out of the woodwork a year before the election. And the UK is even worse, just a total vacuum of anything in parliament except total and utter ineptitude from all sides. Where is the American or British Macron? Not that I’m particularly a fan but he showed the intelligence to seize the initiative when the mainstream politicians were paralysed.

    Western democracy is in a shit state and blaming the symptom, which is all that Trump is, isn’t the solution. We need to look at the root cause and treat that.

    The main fallacy here is the belief that more people voted for Trump than for Hillary. Not true. She had about 3 million more votes than he did. It was the Electoral College that gave the presidency to Trump, just as it gave the office to Bush ll over Gore in 2000. I'm not going to argue that Hillary didn't make some some abysmal moves in running her campaign -- and we'll never be able to quantify exactly how much Russian meddling or Comey's improper behavior influenced the election results -- but in simple "who got the most votes" math, Trump lost.

    The main fallacy here is the 'democratic' or voting system. The electoral college has shown it's uselessness ( you had one job.....). There are far better (one man one vote) preferably multy-party systems which prevent 1. the polarisation which makes working together impossible non-existent
    2. the discrepancies between the value of 1 vote in, say, California and, say, Virginia non-existent. Your system is flawed just as much as it is in Britain, but you also miss other checks and balances which makes the US' system even more extreme.
  • The electoral college is a flawed compromise that has long outlived its usefulness. I agree it should go.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,798
    @Chrisisall if you want your country to change, don't unfriend, but start the debate. As soon as the Trump supporter lets his position known, reply with arguments, not with personal attacks.
    You CAN'T have a debate without FACTS. And most Trumpetteers don't have them, can't use them, or outright deny them. They are the Flat-Earthers of politics. Or worse, they hate Humanity to begin with, and go on about how separating children from their families is okay because their parents broke the law, or how regulating pollution hurts big business, and how it's okay for Trump to lie constantly because of Hillary's e-mails. Either way they win, because winning is everything to them.
    Tell me I'm wrong.
  • Posts: 5,993
    Disgusting piece of excrement :

    https://theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/15/tory-mp-christopher-chope-blocks-progress-of-upskirting-bill

    Apparently, from what I heard on Sky News just a few moments ago, he has a history of doing that, whatever the bill. High time for him to retire, methinks.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    How about we rule ourselves?
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Oh, and BTW, @Wiz: you're not my first choice to be instructing others on the best rhetoric to use in order to persuade, rather than offend, others. But wth, we live in interesting times.
    Never said that I should be in charge as I’d be a ruthless dictator and commit horrific genocides.

    Never said I agreed with persuasion either as a concept either. We just need a strong leader who isn’t actually mental. Basically Maggie.
This discussion has been closed.