The BREXIT Discussion Thread.

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  • edited July 2019 Posts: 11,425
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Shardlake wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    One liar replaced by another. Business goes on.

    "Politics makes liars of us all." Joe Devlin, Columbo: The Conspirators (1978).

    I fear there would be no MP left in Parliament if not lying or spinning the facts were the criteria for choosing the next prime minister.

    Lying and spinning the facts in a favourable way are two completely different beasts. The latter makes sense and is long a habit in politics, which helps the negotiations you have to partake in anyway. Lying is for the misinformed 'fake'politicians who think they know better and who's own truth trumps everyone elses.

    In the end analysis, is it not all about being economical with the truth? Two sides of the one coin, I think.

    You'll come up with anything to justify him because he's going to try to give you what you want.

    I have to wonder about the principles and views of someone who thinks Johnson is a good thing.

    Ah of course it's Brexit at all or any cost hey @Dragonpol, I voted for it so if the vile contemptible man is going to give me it, hey I'll forget about all he's said and done.

    You lot will sell your soul to leave the EU.

    Well maybe if Theresa May had delivered on what she promised in her 2017 manifesto and on becoming prime minister in July 2016 we wouldn't have needed Johnson as prime minister. So blame her and not me. There's no need to make it personal, either.

    It was Boris and the ERG extremists who blocked May's attempt to leave the EU. We'd have left by now if it wasn't for that bunch of delusional lunatics. I suspect that there is a part of them that actually would prefer to remain in our current state of indefinite limbo just so they can continue to blame everything on the EU forever.

  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Getafix wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Shardlake wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    One liar replaced by another. Business goes on.

    "Politics makes liars of us all." Joe Devlin, Columbo: The Conspirators (1978).

    I fear there would be no MP left in Parliament if not lying or spinning the facts were the criteria for choosing the next prime minister.

    Lying and spinning the facts in a favourable way are two completely different beasts. The latter makes sense and is long a habit in politics, which helps the negotiations you have to partake in anyway. Lying is for the misinformed 'fake'politicians who think they know better and who's own truth trumps everyone elses.

    In the end analysis, is it not all about being economical with the truth? Two sides of the one coin, I think.

    You'll come up with anything to justify him because he's going to try to give you what you want.

    I have to wonder about the principles and views of someone who thinks Johnson is a good thing.

    Ah of course it's Brexit at all or any cost hey @Dragonpol, I voted for it so if the vile contemptible man is going to give me it, hey I'll forget about all he's said and done.

    You lot will sell your soul to leave the EU.

    Well maybe if Theresa May had delivered on what she promised in her 2017 manifesto and on becoming prime minister in July 2016 we wouldn't have needed Johnson as prime minister. So blame her and not me. There's no need to make it personal, either.

    It was Boris and the ERG extremists who blocked May's attempt to leave the EU. We'd have left by now if it wasn't for that bunch of delusional lunatics. I suspect that there is a part of them that actually woukd prefer in indefinite limbo just so they can continue to blame everything on the EU forever.

    Yes, although a good few of the ERG members (including its chairman Jacob Rees-Mogg MP) and Johnson himself voted for May's Withdrawal Agreement on the third vote and it still didn't have the requisite numbers to get through the House of Commons. So the blame clearly lies elsewhere too, namely the Labour Party MPs who voted against May's deal.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    So Boris will try to force a hard Brexit.
    It's just sickening; it really is. I'm sorry for all of my UK friends.
  • edited July 2019 Posts: 11,425
    Just landed on Boris Island this morning. Depressing times to be in the UK (as it was previously known).
  • Posts: 12,526
    Clear as much debt as you can peoples!!! Things are about to get rough!!!
  • Posts: 7,507
    Bexit should have ended Boris´ political career. Instead he is somehow rewarded.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited August 2019 Posts: 18,281
    jobo wrote: »
    Bexit should have ended Boris´ political career. Instead he is somehow rewarded.

    I'm not sure how being on the winning side in the 2016 EU referendum would have ended his career exactly? And don't forget that it was Theresa May who was initially rewarded as she was coronated as prime minister (after Andrea Leadsom was forced to pull out) even though she never voted for Brexit in the first place! Well, we all know how successful that premiership turned out to be in terms of delivering Brexit...
  • edited July 2019 Posts: 7,507
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    Bexit should have ended Boris´ political career. Instead he is somehow rewarded.

    I'm not sure being on the winning side in the 2016 EU referendum would have ended his career exactly? And don't forget that it was Theresa May who was initially rewarded as she was coronated as prime minister (after Andrea Leadsom was forced to pull out) even though she never voted for Brexit in the first place! Well, we all know how successful that premiership that turned out to be in terms of delivering Brexit...


    They won the referendum yes, and as a result GB is in turmoil. Johnson was exposed lying and misleading the country on the supposed "benifits" of leaving the EU. If there was any justice he would be dropped from the parliament. Instead he is now Prime Minister...
  • edited July 2019 Posts: 11,425
    UK is the disunited kingdom right now.

    Johnson is a lying, cheating sleaze. He is not a committed Europhobe. He just jumped on the bandwagon to further his own career. Deeply cynical and self-serving man only interested in his own vanity and next lay. But as we know from the US, Italy and elsewhere that's what's cool right now.

    He spotted his route to power and probably surmised that in a stable and united country he'd never stand a chance so he took the cynical self interested route and hey presto he is in No.10. Will go down in history as a bad TV comic who somehow became PM and trashed the country. We're no better than Ukraine or Italy right now.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    All this talk of a disunited kingdom, I have trouble believing that Scotland would remain part of the UK, even if Brexit were called off. It looks like they want independence, with or without the UK's removal from Europe. Then again, there's talk of Welsh independence, which I am against.
  • edited July 2019 Posts: 1,661
    I fear we're stuck in an endless catch 22 and Johnson's appointment as PM won't change that fact. The legal default position is we leave on October 31st but then some remainer MP says "Parliament will stop a no deal Brexit" so we're back to square one! The whole saga is nonsensical. We can leave, we can't leave. We can leave, we can't leave. Repeat for ever.

    A general election or new referendum may not resolve the issue. There's no guarantee a GE will result in one party having a majority. If there's no majority for 'leave' in Parliament we're back to the previous paragraph - square one!

    Two possible alternatives not mentioned by politicians or the media:

    1) The government invoke an emergency act of Parliament 'forcing' through the necessary Brexit legislation. I don't mean an alternative to the 'deal' I mean an existing act of Parliament which allows the incumbent government the right to implement Brexit as a matter of national emergency. Parliament is incapable of delivering Brexit so there is "an emergency" - the referendum result is not respected nor implemented. Failure to deliver Brexit is a constitutional emergency which could be covered under The Emergency Powers Act 1964. Trump used a similar type of US law to force through his election pledge to build the southern wall (although other US states did challenge the decision through the courts - which has now got approval from the US Supreme Court ).

    2) Another alternative is Johnson and his government (perhaps with the support of The Brexit Party) mount a legal challenge to deliver Brexit. If Parliament refuse a no deal Brexit on Oct 31st then take Parliament to court via the Supreme Court. Let the Supreme Court decide if Parliament has denied the will of the people. The judiciary is meant to be impartial and independent of so any ruling should not be biased remain or leave. I'm very surprised the likes of Nigel Farage haven't suggested taking Parliament to court if they prevent Brexit.

    Be you remain or leave, the referendum result was to leave. The UK cannot be a functioning, fair democracy if Parliament can stop the UK leaving the EU. And if Brexit is a disaster and the economy tanks, I'm sure a future government will grant another referendum (lol!) and we can all vote to rejoin the EU! Yes, we can reverse the whole thing but we need to leave first!


  • Posts: 1,165
    All this talk of a disunited kingdom, I have trouble believing that Scotland would remain part of the UK, even if Brexit were called off. It looks like they want independence, with or without the UK's removal from Europe. Then again, there's talk of Welsh independence, which I am against.

    You're forgetting Northern Ireland, which will also leave.
  • Posts: 12,526
    All this talk of a disunited kingdom, I have trouble believing that Scotland would remain part of the UK, even if Brexit were called off. It looks like they want independence, with or without the UK's removal from Europe. Then again, there's talk of Welsh independence, which I am against.

    The whole Scottish angle for this makes me laugh! The SNP don't want to be a part of the UK. They want FULL independence to be able to join the European Union and be ruled from Brussels instead. Go figure?!!!! 8-}
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,266
    Getafix wrote: »
    UK is the disunited kingdom right now.

    Johnson is a lying, cheating sleaze. He is not a committed Europhobe. He just jumped on the bandwagon to further his own career. Deeply cynical and self-serving man only interested in his own vanity and next lay. But as we know from the US, Italy and elsewhere that's what's cool right now.

    He spotted his route to power and probably surmised that in a stable and united country he'd never stand a chance so he took the cynical self interested route and hey presto he is in No.10. Will go down in history as a bad TV comic who somehow became PM and trashed the country. We're no better than Ukraine or Italy right now.
    Not to be nitpickibg, but considering the hard work the new ukrainian president is putting in to end corruption and get the country going again, against a UK government clearly going the other way, i think your statement is rather unfair to ukraine.
    I thought brexit might help the eu become more transparent and go for the much-needed democratic reforms. Instead it has helped the 'unionists' of the eu gain momentum and at the same time throw Britain into chaos.
    Mind you, considering the generations that now form a majority, I'm not sure the word 'cool' is the right one. 'reactionary' seems more in place. A generation set on destroying what they helped built themselves

  • Posts: 7,507
    RogueAgent wrote: »
    All this talk of a disunited kingdom, I have trouble believing that Scotland would remain part of the UK, even if Brexit were called off. It looks like they want independence, with or without the UK's removal from Europe. Then again, there's talk of Welsh independence, which I am against.

    The whole Scottish angle for this makes me laugh! The SNP don't want to be a part of the UK. They want FULL independence to be able to join the European Union and be ruled from Brussels instead. Go figure?!!!! 8-}


    There is nothing nonsensical about that.
  • Posts: 5,994
    You know, when I watched Sky News tonight, I half-expected to learn that Boris had been pelted. With haggis. Raw haggis.
  • Posts: 12,526
    jobo wrote: »
    RogueAgent wrote: »
    All this talk of a disunited kingdom, I have trouble believing that Scotland would remain part of the UK, even if Brexit were called off. It looks like they want independence, with or without the UK's removal from Europe. Then again, there's talk of Welsh independence, which I am against.

    The whole Scottish angle for this makes me laugh! The SNP don't want to be a part of the UK. They want FULL independence to be able to join the European Union and be ruled from Brussels instead. Go figure?!!!! 8-}


    There is nothing nonsensical about that.

    How do you mean?
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    RogueAgent wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    RogueAgent wrote: »
    All this talk of a disunited kingdom, I have trouble believing that Scotland would remain part of the UK, even if Brexit were called off. It looks like they want independence, with or without the UK's removal from Europe. Then again, there's talk of Welsh independence, which I am against.

    The whole Scottish angle for this makes me laugh! The SNP don't want to be a part of the UK. They want FULL independence to be able to join the European Union and be ruled from Brussels instead. Go figure?!!!! 8-}


    There is nothing nonsensical about that.

    How do you mean?

    He doesn't seem to be familiar with what a paradox is.
  • Posts: 12,526
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    RogueAgent wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    RogueAgent wrote: »
    All this talk of a disunited kingdom, I have trouble believing that Scotland would remain part of the UK, even if Brexit were called off. It looks like they want independence, with or without the UK's removal from Europe. Then again, there's talk of Welsh independence, which I am against.

    The whole Scottish angle for this makes me laugh! The SNP don't want to be a part of the UK. They want FULL independence to be able to join the European Union and be ruled from Brussels instead. Go figure?!!!! 8-}


    There is nothing nonsensical about that.

    How do you mean?

    He doesn't seem to be familiar with what a paradox is.

    ok :))
  • Posts: 7,507
    RogueAgent wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    RogueAgent wrote: »
    All this talk of a disunited kingdom, I have trouble believing that Scotland would remain part of the UK, even if Brexit were called off. It looks like they want independence, with or without the UK's removal from Europe. Then again, there's talk of Welsh independence, which I am against.

    The whole Scottish angle for this makes me laugh! The SNP don't want to be a part of the UK. They want FULL independence to be able to join the European Union and be ruled from Brussels instead. Go figure?!!!! 8-}


    There is nothing nonsensical about that.

    How do you mean?


    Being under rule of GB and being part of a union consisting of independent countries are obviously two completely different things! And no sane person would blame them from wanting to leave the train wreck that is GB at this point...
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    Wouldn't make any difference if the train were on the tracks or not, Scotland would still want off (or out...).
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited July 2019 Posts: 18,281
    jobo wrote: »
    RogueAgent wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    RogueAgent wrote: »
    All this talk of a disunited kingdom, I have trouble believing that Scotland would remain part of the UK, even if Brexit were called off. It looks like they want independence, with or without the UK's removal from Europe. Then again, there's talk of Welsh independence, which I am against.

    The whole Scottish angle for this makes me laugh! The SNP don't want to be a part of the UK. They want FULL independence to be able to join the European Union and be ruled from Brussels instead. Go figure?!!!! 8-}


    There is nothing nonsensical about that.

    How do you mean?


    Being under rule of GB and being part of a union consisting of independent countries are obviously two completely different things! And no sane person would blame them from wanting to leave the train wreck that is GB at this point...

    The thing is would they still use the pound as their currency? Would the UK Treasury in fact even allow this? Or would they have to join the failing Euro project? Another paradox right there. The mind boggles.
  • Posts: 7,507
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    RogueAgent wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    RogueAgent wrote: »
    All this talk of a disunited kingdom, I have trouble believing that Scotland would remain part of the UK, even if Brexit were called off. It looks like they want independence, with or without the UK's removal from Europe. Then again, there's talk of Welsh independence, which I am against.

    The whole Scottish angle for this makes me laugh! The SNP don't want to be a part of the UK. They want FULL independence to be able to join the European Union and be ruled from Brussels instead. Go figure?!!!! 8-}


    There is nothing nonsensical about that.

    How do you mean?


    Being under rule of GB and being part of a union consisting of independent countries are obviously two completely different things! And no sane person would blame them from wanting to leave the train wreck that is GB at this point...

    The thing is would they still use the pound as their currency? Would the UK Treasury in fact even allow this? Or would they have to join the failing Euro project? Another paradox right there. The mind boggles.


    I suppose it might be you who don´t understand what a paradox is? We could surely discuss until death wether it would be benificial or not for Scottland to gain independence from GB. But that is not up to us to decide. There is however no paradox there at all if Scottland wants to gain independence and at the same time be a part of the EU.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    jobo wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    RogueAgent wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    RogueAgent wrote: »
    All this talk of a disunited kingdom, I have trouble believing that Scotland would remain part of the UK, even if Brexit were called off. It looks like they want independence, with or without the UK's removal from Europe. Then again, there's talk of Welsh independence, which I am against.

    The whole Scottish angle for this makes me laugh! The SNP don't want to be a part of the UK. They want FULL independence to be able to join the European Union and be ruled from Brussels instead. Go figure?!!!! 8-}


    There is nothing nonsensical about that.

    How do you mean?


    Being under rule of GB and being part of a union consisting of independent countries are obviously two completely different things! And no sane person would blame them from wanting to leave the train wreck that is GB at this point...

    The thing is would they still use the pound as their currency? Would the UK Treasury in fact even allow this? Or would they have to join the failing Euro project? Another paradox right there. The mind boggles.


    I suppose it might be you who don´t understand what a paradox is? We could surely discuss until death wether it would be benificial or not for Scottland to gain independence from GB. But that is not up to us to decide. There is however no paradox there at all if Scottland wants to gain independence and at the same time be a part of the EU.

    I may not understand what a paradox is (that's surely debatable) but I do at least know how to spell 'Scotland' and various other words. It kind of undermines your point, that, and your credibility. Be very careful of throwing stones in glass houses, my friend.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    The pound sank even further today due to Brexit fears. Looks like the pessimistic forecast from 2016 is coming true.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    The pound sank even further today due to Brexit fears. Looks like the pessimistic forecast from 2016 is coming true.

    It doesn't matter those that voted Brexit will say there is nothing to worry about here at all, after all people are sick to death of experts telling what is what.

  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    I'll leave this here for you to ruminate over all you happy about Johnson and his new cabinet, this man always hits the nail on head better pretty much anyone else.


  • Posts: 11,425
    Shardlake wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    The pound sank even further today due to Brexit fears. Looks like the pessimistic forecast from 2016 is coming true.

    It doesn't matter those that voted Brexit will say there is nothing to worry about here at all, after all people are sick to death of experts telling what is what.

    True. Brexit is like a religious cult. You must believe in what the runes tell you or you're a disbeliever.

    The country has gone mad, taken over but a bunch of dim witted hucksters.

    This isn't what's supposed to happen in the UK. Parliamentary democracy is supposed to prevent exactly this kind of extremist lunacy. I blame that Etonian plonker Cameron and his school chum/rival, Boris. Vile people.
  • Posts: 5,994
    An old joke says that, when a country put an adjective in its name, it means exactly the opposite, because, if that country was already that adjective, it wouldn't need to advertise it. For example, countries with "Democratic" in their name aren't really democracies (having lived for two years in West Berlin, I can say that it's true). So it follows that neither the USA nor the UK are really united, and that Great Britain isn't really all that great.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,400
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    The pound sank even further today due to Brexit fears. Looks like the pessimistic forecast from 2016 is coming true.

    Maybe a shortterm outlook isn't always for the best. We didn't just take this decision for ourselves, but generations hence. We may have to endure hardships, but if we come out the other end stronger as a result, then its worth it.
This discussion has been closed.