A View to A Kill - Underrated?

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  • Posts: 19,339
    Yes,a great bunch of nastiness : Sanchez,Dario,Heller,Krest,Truman-Lodge,Killifer,Prof Joe Butcher.

    Bond had his work cut out to beat this lot in LTK.
  • edited June 2017 Posts: 11,425
    I resolutely believe that TLD was a marked step up from AVTAK. Which is not to say that AVTAK is a stinker - I quite enjoy it - but that TLD is really very good. I will admit the stuff in Afghanistan drops off a bit, but it then redeems itself with the first rate cargo plane sequence, and the John Barry cameo!

    I struggle frankly to see any way in which TLD could be seriously described as 'gritty' as well. Certainly Dalton gives it a more 'serious' spin, but I've always been of the view that people exaggerate the comic aspects of Moore's performance - he still played it straight 95% of the time.

    I also found LTK hard to stomach the first time I saw it. I thought they'd really gone off the rails. However my views have changed. It's not a classic and I probably wouldn't put it in my top 10, but it's definitely grown on me. Even Pam, who I used to think was awful.

    When you take a step back, LTK is still actually a classic formula Bond film underneath - all the elements are there, just with a slightly odd overlay of 80s narco crime. It even has an exploding baddy base.

    The fact the action scenes and stunts have been copied and riffed off several times since by major Hollywood blockbusters is testament to how good the action and stunt work is on LTK as well.

    Like I said, it's not a personal favourite, but I do now enjoy it.

    Frankly all the 80s films are pretty watchable IMO. Some are distinctly better than others but that's fine.

  • I'll give TLD and LTK a rewatch when I can and see if my opinion on them has shifted.
  • Posts: 11,189
    TLD has its issues but its is an all-round better made, better acted film than AVTAK.
  • Posts: 19,339
    The tanker truck chase is pure Bond stuntwork - i'm always amazed how good it is when I see it.
  • edited June 2017 Posts: 11,189
    The LTK tanker chase holds up very well. Much better than the fire truck chase in AVTAK.

    My problems with LTK are mainly in the cheesy opening 30 minutes (with bland direction), Pam Bouvier (I accept Talisa's limited acting abilities) and the schmaltzy ending.
  • Posts: 19,339
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    The LTK tanker chase holds up very well. Much better than the fire truck chase in AVTAK.

    My problems with LTK are mainly in the cheesy opening 30 minutes, Pam Bouvier (I accept Talisa's limited acting abilities) and the schmaltzy ending.

    I think the fire truck chase was dated from the moment it hit the cinema in 1985 !!

    And don't get me started on that bloody winking fish in LTK or Felix being happy as Larry even though he lost a limb and his wife was raped and murdered !

  • Posts: 1,970
    Even Roger has said he hated that fire chase.
  • Posts: 11,189
    It's not just those things that bother me. It's the whole thing of Dalton's fake laugh to Lupe (even for an intentional fake laugh it made me wince) Pam running off crying and the pool jump. Now it just seems cheesy.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    It's not just those things that bother me. It's the whole thing of Dalton's fake laugh to Lupe (even for an intentional fake laugh it made me wince) Pam running off crying and the pool jump. Now it just seems cheesy.
    Please don't remind me. For me that film ends after Sanchez is killed. I can't get through the epilogue. Yuk.
  • Posts: 11,425
    The fire engine thing must surely be lifted form Laurel and Hardy or something like that?
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    The LTK tanker chase holds up very well. Much better than the fire truck chase in AVTAK.

    My problems with LTK are mainly in the cheesy opening 30 minutes (with bland direction), Pam Bouvier (I accept Talisa's limited acting abilities) and the schmaltzy ending.

    If these are your only issues with the film it sounds like you actually quite like it.
  • Posts: 19,339
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    It's not just those things that bother me. It's the whole thing of Dalton's fake laugh to Lupe (even for an intentional fake laugh it made me wince) Pam running off crying and the pool jump. Now it just seems cheesy.

    THAT I must agree,gets on my wick as well.
    But at least in LTK he doesn't look like a lovesick puppy,staring at the brainless Kara.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    barryt007 wrote: »
    But at least in LTK he doesn't look like a lovesick puppy,staring at the brainless Kara.
    That's so true. I thought I was the only one who felt that way about the Kara/Bond dynamic. The horse's arse thing didn't work for me.
  • Posts: 19,339
    bondjames wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    But at least in LTK he doesn't look like a lovesick puppy,staring at the brainless Kara.
    That's so true. I thought I was the only one who felt that way about the Kara/Bond dynamic. The horse's arse thing didn't work for me.

    None of it works with those two...that's why TLD is rooted to the bottom spot at #24 on my list,controversial though that may be for some.

  • Posts: 11,189
    Getafix wrote: »
    The fire engine thing must surely be lifted form Laurel and Hardy or something like that?
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    The LTK tanker chase holds up very well. Much better than the fire truck chase in AVTAK.

    My problems with LTK are mainly in the cheesy opening 30 minutes (with bland direction), Pam Bouvier (I accept Talisa's limited acting abilities) and the schmaltzy ending.

    If these are your only issues with the film it sounds like you actually quite like it.

    I do actually like the movie. For a long time it was a top 5 film.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Funny, I always felt the Bond-Kara thing was one of the more believable romances in the series. Not up there with Tracy and Vesper, but an actual tangible relationship, as opposed to most of them.
  • BondAficionadoBondAficionado Former IMDBer
    Posts: 1,889
    barryt007 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    But at least in LTK he doesn't look like a lovesick puppy,staring at the brainless Kara.
    That's so true. I thought I was the only one who felt that way about the Kara/Bond dynamic. The horse's arse thing didn't work for me.

    None of it works with those two...that's why TLD is rooted to the bottom spot at #24 on my list,controversial though that may be for some.

    Kara and Bond's chemistry isn't nearly as terrible as Pam/Lupe's in LTK. That film has the weakest Bond girls of all time; acting and character-wise. LTK will never breach the bottom five JB films.
  • edited June 2017 Posts: 11,189
    "James don't go. I'm scared"

    I consider that line delivery far worse than "I love James...so much".

    Genuinely speaking I'd say both Dalton films are better than AVTAK, but not as accessible or re-watchable as FYEO or OP.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Getafix wrote: »
    Funny, I always felt the Bond-Kara thing was one of the more believable romances in the series. Not up there with Tracy and Vesper, but an actual tangible relationship, as opposed to most of them.
    There are elements of it that are genuine, but like other aspects of the Dalton era, the implementation doesn't quite work for me. Like I said, attempts at humour/warmth like the horse's backside line and the Ferris wheel seem more cheesy than sincere. I actually thought Bond/Octopussy or even Bond/Melina were more genuine because they didn't have these kinds of elements.
  • Posts: 11,189
    The Bond/Kara thing is a little too soppy for my liking, but they do make quite a nice couple.
  • Posts: 11,425
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    The Bond/Kara thing is a little too soppy for my liking, but they do make quite a nice couple.

    Precisely.

    Although I can understand why some might not like it.
  • Posts: 11,425
    barryt007 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    But at least in LTK he doesn't look like a lovesick puppy,staring at the brainless Kara.
    That's so true. I thought I was the only one who felt that way about the Kara/Bond dynamic. The horse's arse thing didn't work for me.

    None of it works with those two...that's why TLD is rooted to the bottom spot at #24 on my list,controversial though that may be for some.

    Kara and Bond's chemistry isn't nearly as terrible as Pam/Lupe's in LTK. That film has the weakest Bond girls of all time; acting and character-wise. LTK will never breach the bottom five JB films.

    Hmm. There is a lot of very wooden acting in the Bond films, especially from the Bond girls. I'm not sure I'd put Pam and Lupe bottom, but you could definitely make this case.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    edited June 2017 Posts: 9,020
    60s OHMSS
    80s TLD
    70s TSWLM
    90s GE
    00s CR
    10s SP

    Easy as pie to rank the decades.

    AVTAK is a weaker link in the 80s.

    How did you rank it by decade? The net score for all films per decade, or the number of excellent Bond films?? (60s wins in either case imho)

    The 80's has FYEO, OP, TLD and LTK and all of them are in my Top 10. So there you go.
    The 60's have DN GF OHMSS that are in my Top 10 but there is no doubt that the 60s is the best Bond decade.

    The 70s has DAF, LALD, TSWLM and MR. While only TSWLM is in my Top 10 I love DAF and MR and LALD and they are in 14th, 15th and 16th place in my ranking.

    The 90's are only lower than the 70s because it's "only" two films for me. GE and TND are both in my Top 10 but I have TWINE on No 23.

    The 00's have DAD and CR which I would choose overall to SF and SP even if I LOVE SP.

    So that's my reasoning.
  • BondAficionadoBondAficionado Former IMDBer
    Posts: 1,889
    60s OHMSS
    80s TLD
    70s TSWLM
    90s GE
    00s CR
    10s SP

    Easy as pie to rank the decades.

    AVTAK is a weaker link in the 80s.

    How did you rank it by decade? The net score for all films per decade, or the number of excellent Bond films?? (60s wins in either case imho)

    The 80's has FYEO, OP, TLD and LTK and all of them are in my Top 10. So there you go.
    The 60's have DN GF OHMSS that are in my Top 10 but there is no doubt that the 60s is the best Bond decade.

    The 70s has DAF, LALD, TSWLM and MR. While only TSWLM is in my Top 10 I love DAF and MR and LALD and they are in 14th, 15th and 16th place in my ranking.

    The 90's are only lower than the 70s because it's "only" two films for me. GE and TND are both in my Top 10 but I have TWINE on No 23.

    The 00's have DAD and CR which I would choose overall to SF and SP even if I LOVE SP.

    So that's my reasoning.

    Gotcha. Using that method I'd get:

    60s
    80s
    90s
    70s
    00s*
    10s*

    *interchangeable
  • edited June 2017 Posts: 337
    Yeah, LTK might unseat FYEO and other such candidates for worst epilogue.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    "James don't go. I'm scared"

    I consider that line delivery far worse than "I love James...so much".

    Genuinely speaking I'd say both Dalton films are better than AVTAK, but not as accessible or re-watchable as FYEO or OP.

    Kara is certainly not my favourite Bond girl but I still find her more interesting than most of the other Bond girls who usually do not really add anything to the plot and are just there to look pretty.

    And as has been said before, none of the romances in the franchise have been so very realistic. Even in CR and OHMSS, the romances come out of nowhere. And some of the romantic dialouge especially in CR ("little finger") is awfull, too.

    I have watched most of the Bond films with my girl friend this year. And she really liked the relationship between Bond and Kara and said it was the most realistic one so far. On the contrary, - even though she enjoyed CR overall - she did not really buy the romantic stuff in CR and said that there is no chemistry between Bond and Vesper and that the romance between the two was forced.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    edited June 2017 Posts: 9,020
    @GBF
    Kara and Bond is among my favourite romances in the series since 1987.
    Rivalled only by Natalya and Bond in GE.
  • Posts: 7,430
    Dont think thats a valid comparison!
    Karas relationship with Bond was a lot more involving.You felt Bond really cares about her and there was a vulnerability in their relationship not seen before.....or since.
    I love Natalya but i cringe when i think of that beach scene. Chocolate box visuals and awful dialogue!
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    @Mathis1

    I like that cheesy bit in GE at the beach. It's so perfectly 90s.

    What I mean is believability of romance. There GE rivals TLD to be the best romance since 1987. Imho.
  • Posts: 7,430
    I dont mind cheesy but that scene is always cringeing to watch. And i dont think Brossa and Natalya had any chemistry. She was far too good for him. Another moment i hate is Brossas double take in the lift when Natalya tells Bond "I am fine, thank you!)
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