Well here comes the UK General Election!

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  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited June 2017 Posts: 18,281
    Mrcoggins wrote: »
    I'd love to be a fly on the wall at the next cabinet meeting!.
    No overall majority and a deal to be done with the DUP
    That's about as much use as a one legged man in an arse kicking contest.

    It would still be a lot easier than doing a deal with the SNP though, don't you think?! They are both unionists and thereby conservatives after all.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2017 Posts: 23,883
    While I'm surprised by this result (I'll admit it wasn't what I expected when the election was called), it is what it is. This election (like the US one last year) has illustrated that one can never take the electorate for granted, that one must have a clear message (and leaders must have an inner core), and that voters can smell inauthenticity & fear a mile away.

    In an ideal world, this hung parliament should result in a more consensus driven approach to Brexit. As we know, the world isn't ideal.

    Therefore, it's possible that Brexit itself could eventually be threatened, because a chaotic exit or a weakened Britain (both likely on account of this election) close to Europe's shores isn't good for anyone or global financial stability.

    Ultimately money talks, and it's quite possible some will attempt to use this fiasco to initiate a 2nd referendum down the road.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Yes the anti democratic Brexit force still dreams of undoing it.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Yes the anti democratic Brexit force still dreams of undoing it.

    Indeed...they are as determined as 'Daniel Craig is not Bond' used to be.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited June 2017 Posts: 8,404
    They should have gone with Leadsom.
  • stagstag In the thick of it!
    Posts: 1,053
    Yes the anti democratic Brexit force still dreams of undoing it.

    And their hand has been strengthened no end by the events of the past twenty four hours or so.

    Just as an aside, I was speaking to the Labour party candidate for my constituency yesterday. I made it clear that I was a Brexiteer and that, like many of my ilk, I knew exactly why I wanted out. I was given the rather vague reply that Labour respected the outcome of the referendum but wanted a brexit which worked for everyone. I replied that I wanted a brexit which worked for Britain. The person in question has since been elected in a safe Labour seat but Brexit voting area. I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens......
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited June 2017 Posts: 18,281
    A short piece on Northern Ireland politics for the uninitiated, after the announcement by Theresa May of an alliance with the DUP in light of the hung parliament....

    The Ulster Unionist Party (UUP) is much older than the DUP and has its origins from the Irish Unionist Party. It was formed out of the Ulster Unionist Council in 1905, opposed Home Rule and ruled Northern Ireland for over 50 years as the majority party between 1921 (when Northern Ireland was founded as a separate state after the partition of Ireland) and 1972, when the Stormont parliament was prorogued by the Edward Heath Conservative Government.

    They again were the majority party at Stormont when devolution was returned to Northern Ireland under First Minister and UUP Leader David Trimble 1999-2002, and Seamus Mallon of the moderate nationalist SDLP after the Belfast or Good Friday Agreement of 1998.

    Since then, its fortunes have dwindled, being the more moderate party within NI unionism. The Rev Dr Ian Paisley created the Protestant Unionist Party in 1970 to fight the 1970 General Election. He took North Antrim from the UUP and held it until he stood down in 2010. His son Ian Paisley Jnr then took over and still holds the seat today. The DUP was formed in 1971 out of the PUP that preceded it. From 2003 the DUP was in the ascendancy and when devolution was restored in March 2007 the DUP and Sinn Fein were the largest parties, the two hardline parties in NI. This power sharing Executive collapsed in early 2017 after Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness resigned as a result of the DUP's handling of the Renewable Heat Incentive (RHI) scandal massive overspend. There was a Stormont Assembly election in March 2017 where Sinn Fein did very well and the DUP just about managed to stay the biggest party in the assembly. There is still no government in NI at devolution level, but direct rule has not as yet been imposed from Westminster. The parties have until the end of June 2017 to reach agreement on this and there might be another Assembly election in the autumn again.

    There are also some smaller unionist parties like the more hardline Traditional Unionist Voice (TUV) (formed in 2007) and the more socialist-minded Progressive Unionist Party (PUP) (formed in 1979) but they have little representation in Stormont. The TUV has a sole MLA, Jim Allister, Party Leader, in North Antrim.

    Hope that goes some way towards explaining the complexities of Ulster politics!
  • Posts: 15,125
    Boy Theresa May has only herself to blame for that blunder. It was mistake after mistake after mistake. I'm actually surprised she's still PM. For the record I thought that she'd be a solid leader when she announced her candidacy last year. But she rub people the wrong way (refusing to debate, dementia tax, vote on fox hunting and simply proved to be a terrible campaigner. Corbyn has many flaws but he's a natural when it comes to campaigning.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Boy Theresa May has only herself to blame for that blunder. It was mistake after mistake after mistake. I'm actually surprised she's still PM. For the record I thought that she'd be a solid leader when she announced her candidacy last year. But she rub people the wrong way (refusing to debate, dementia tax, vote on fox hunting and simply proved to be a terrible campaigner. Corbyn has many flaws but he's a natural when it comes to campaigning.

    I can only agree, @Ludovico. She had a great opportunity to get a massive Tory majority and she blew it day after day. She may not be PM much longer, even with the agreement she has in place with the DUP. Whatever will be, I certainly can't see the Tories allowing her to fight another General Election again.
  • Posts: 7,653
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Boy Theresa May has only herself to blame for that blunder. It was mistake after mistake after mistake. I'm actually surprised she's still PM. For the record I thought that she'd be a solid leader when she announced her candidacy last year. But she rub people the wrong way (refusing to debate, dementia tax, vote on fox hunting and simply proved to be a terrible campaigner. Corbyn has many flaws but he's a natural when it comes to campaigning.

    I can only agree, @Ludovico. She had a great opportunity to get a massive Tory majority and she blew it day after day. She may not be PM much longer, even with the agreement she has in place with the DUP. Whatever will be, I certainly can't see the Tories allowing her to fight another General Election again.

    Not if they want to lose more seats in the next election, May is definitely what one could call a wet blanket.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    SaintMark wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Boy Theresa May has only herself to blame for that blunder. It was mistake after mistake after mistake. I'm actually surprised she's still PM. For the record I thought that she'd be a solid leader when she announced her candidacy last year. But she rub people the wrong way (refusing to debate, dementia tax, vote on fox hunting and simply proved to be a terrible campaigner. Corbyn has many flaws but he's a natural when it comes to campaigning.

    I can only agree, @Ludovico. She had a great opportunity to get a massive Tory majority and she blew it day after day. She may not be PM much longer, even with the agreement she has in place with the DUP. Whatever will be, I certainly can't see the Tories allowing her to fight another General Election again.

    Not if they want to lose more seats in the next election, May is definitely what one could call a wet blanket.

    Yes, she's damaged goods and may not even last this year. One certainly cannot predict what lies ahead with the same certainty some commentators did when this General Election was called!
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    The only certainty is uncertainty these days. Both 2016 and 2017 to date have proven that. Buckle up!
  • Posts: 12,526
    Well that is a massive slap in the face for Theresa May. What a holy mess Brexit is going to be now?!!!
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    bondjames wrote: »
    The only certainty is uncertainty these days. Both 2016 and 2017 to date have proven that. Buckle up!

    Since 2010 things have been that way I feel. Voters in the UK rarely come out and back any one party by giving it a large or even workable majority these days it seems. It's symptomatic of voter apathy and weariness with the artificiality of much of modern politics.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2017 Posts: 23,883
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    The only certainty is uncertainty these days. Both 2016 and 2017 to date have proven that. Buckle up!

    Since 2010 things have been that way I feel. Voters in the UK rarely come out and back any one party by giving it a large or even workable majority these days it seems. It's symptomatic of voter apathy and weariness with the artificiality of much of modern politics.
    Absolutely. The financial crisis exposed severe cracks in society and in political models. We are still living with the impacts of that mess and it's only going to get worse, because the way they dealt with the crisis was to pump money into the system, thereby increasing income disparities, inflating asset prices and creating even more potential instability.
  • Posts: 15,125
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Boy Theresa May has only herself to blame for that blunder. It was mistake after mistake after mistake. I'm actually surprised she's still PM. For the record I thought that she'd be a solid leader when she announced her candidacy last year. But she rub people the wrong way (refusing to debate, dementia tax, vote on fox hunting and simply proved to be a terrible campaigner. Corbyn has many flaws but he's a natural when it comes to campaigning.

    I can only agree, @Ludovico. She had a great opportunity to get a massive Tory majority and she blew it day after day. She may not be PM much longer, even with the agreement she has in place with the DUP. Whatever will be, I certainly can't see the Tories allowing her to fight another General Election again.

    I wonder if she ever truly had this opportunity. For the record I did not want a tory landslide and was actually depressed when I thought this would happen. I think calling an election at this point was sheer arrogance and hubris. She was bound to do less than the polls then she behaved as if she the election was in the pocket.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Ludovico wrote: »
    She was bound to do less than the polls then she behaved as if she the election was in the pocket.
    She didn't learn the lessons of Hillary's disgrace last year.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Boy Theresa May has only herself to blame for that blunder. It was mistake after mistake after mistake. I'm actually surprised she's still PM. For the record I thought that she'd be a solid leader when she announced her candidacy last year. But she rub people the wrong way (refusing to debate, dementia tax, vote on fox hunting and simply proved to be a terrible campaigner. Corbyn has many flaws but he's a natural when it comes to campaigning.

    I can only agree, @Ludovico. She had a great opportunity to get a massive Tory majority and she blew it day after day. She may not be PM much longer, even with the agreement she has in place with the DUP. Whatever will be, I certainly can't see the Tories allowing her to fight another General Election again.

    I wonder if she ever truly had this opportunity. For the record I did not want a tory landslide and was actually depressed when I thought this would happen. I think calling an election at this point was sheer arrogance and hubris. She was bound to do less than the polls then she behaved as if she the election was in the pocket.

    Well, yes, that could just have been more hubris from May's team and the media that backed her, and it most likely was just that. I think a majority in double figures, say 30, 40 or 50 was much more likely than a landslide and the election results have proven that even that was elusive!
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Hillary lost the election.

    Theresa May has won the election. Even if she has lost 12 seats of 330.
    Things are being blown out of proportion by the left-sided media like always.

    She gambled and lost the majority, that's too bad for the Tories but in the end good for the country.
    Corbyn by the way is a Brexiteer. With him as PM nothing would change regarding Brexit.

    May on the other hand, even with 12 seats less, is still much better to handle the Brexit than Corbyn. Imho.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2017 Posts: 23,883
    Hillary lost the election.

    Theresa May has won the election.
    Yes, but only because the opposition was unelectable, and not because she did a good job. Her campaign was feckless and she came across as a calculating opportunist who wasn't able to connect with voters at a grass root level. Reminds me of someone else.

    I'm surprised nobody has started blaming ISIS for interfering in the election. It will make a change from the Russians.
  • edited June 2017 Posts: 1,031
    Hillary lost the election.

    Theresa May has won the election. Even if she has lost 12 seats of 330.
    Things are being blown out of proportion by the left-sided media like always.

    She gambled and lost the majority, that's too bad for the Tories but in the end good for the country.
    Corbyn by the way is a Brexiteer. With him as PM nothing would change regarding Brexit.

    May on the other hand, even with 12 seats less, is still much better to handle the Brexit than Corbyn. Imho.

    Actually the Conservative Party won the election. Corbyn voted to remain in the EU.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    While they may not have interfered in the election, the ISIS bombs and killings through the General Election certainly helped to shift the focus away from Brexit and a Tory majority and onto even more pressing and deadly matters in our midst and policing, anti-terrorism and security had a large bearing on the outcome of the election.
  • edited June 2017 Posts: 19,339
    It would have influenced the amount of voters who turned as well,i would imagine it would have been less than the last election.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    barryt007 wrote: »
    It would have influenced the amount of voters who turned as well,i would imagine it would have been less than the last election.

    Yes, plus Jeremy Corbyn really managed to get the "youth vote" out in this General Election and they are of course vital for political parties to galvanise to ensure their continued survival and the survival of a participatory parliamentary democracy. This "youth vote" largely going to Labour was as much of a reason for May not getting a majority over Labour as anything else in the end analysis.
  • Posts: 1,031
    barryt007 wrote: »
    It would have influenced the amount of voters who turned as well,i would imagine it would have been less than the last election.

    Turnout was the highest its been for 25 years.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Dennison wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    It would have influenced the amount of voters who turned as well,i would imagine it would have been less than the last election.

    Turnout was the highest its been for 25 years.

    Yes, the 1992 General Election where John Major won for the Tories unexpectedly. He had a smallish majority though. How fortunes change and Theresa May looked virtually unassailable when this election was called in April 2017!
  • Posts: 15,125
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    While they may not have interfered in the election, the ISIS bombs and killings through the General Election certainly helped to shift the focus away from Brexit and a Tory majority and onto even more pressing and deadly matters in our midst and policing, anti-terrorism and security had a large bearing on the outcome of the election.

    But generally a terrorist attack strengthens the party in power. Especially a conservative one. May cutting police budgets did not help but I think she lacks natural empathy that probably caused issue.
  • Posts: 15,125
    bondjames wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    She was bound to do less than the polls then she behaved as if she the election was in the pocket.
    She didn't learn the lessons of Hillary's disgrace last year.

    I am not a fan of Hillary but at least 1)she won popular vote and 2)could do (and win) debates. May didn't even bother to turn up! When you show such disdain for voters they will keep a grudge. Going from a majority and very encouraging (if overoptimistic) polls to a hung parliament is no victory. You just avoided complete defeat. One more week of this and I genuinely think Jeremy Corbyn would have been prime minister.

    And apparently Theresa May did go for a "presidential style" of election. In a parliamentary system I don't think it's a good idea. You really need to show that you are a leader of a team not a one woman show... especially if you are not good at campaigning.
  • Posts: 1,031
    Ludovico wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    She was bound to do less than the polls then she behaved as if she the election was in the pocket.
    She didn't learn the lessons of Hillary's disgrace last year.

    I am not a fan of Hillary but at least 1)she won popular vote and 2)could do (and win) debates. May didn't even bother to turn up! When you show such disdain for voters they will keep a grudge. Going from a majority and very encouraging (if overoptimistic) polls to a hung parliament is no victory. You just avoided complete defeat. One more week of this and I genuinely think Jeremy Corbyn would have been prime minister.

    And apparently Theresa May did go for a "presidential style" of election. In a parliamentary system I don't think it's a good idea. You really need to show that you are a leader of a team not a one woman show... especially if you are not good at campaigning.

    It's okay though, she'll get past it no problem - she's strong and stable.
  • Posts: 15,125
    The campaign proved she is neither. I'm actually fuming. Not that I ever voted Tory but when she became PM I thought she promised to provide strong leadership after the Brexit vote and was going to apply a more modern, kind hearted conservatism. She was mediocre at her best in Parliament, lacked transparency and even wasted her time in a pointless controversy about Cadbury eggs. And that was BEFORE the elections!
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