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I thought your joke was funny.
It worked for me,i had a giggle at it.
And to be honest my biggest wish is that Lazenby had stayed and we got a true OHMSS sequel.
While I think that DAF is ultimately a dud, the best thing about it is IMO that they didn't have Lazenby play the main role again. The second best thing is the dialogue, which wouldn't have fit Lazenby either.
1) The diamond-stealing concept was okay, but use it in an actual plot that's creative rather than formulaic.
2) A Blofeld who is actually scary and imposing rather than ridiculous. Returning either Pleasance or Savalas would've been fine.
3) Cast an actor that actually wanted to play the role instead of Connery. Because it looks like Connery put little effort into the movie (between his weight gain, thick accent, and lack of awareness of what was even going on in the movie).
4) A female lead that's a real character instead of degenerate. Yes, the one in OHMSS was a little bit of a prig, but there was no need to go to the other extreme.
5) Have an actual sense of continuity. Blofeld killed Bond's wife in the prior entry. Bond should have been angry - not just mildly irritated. The cast acted like OHMSS never happened, even though it was a way better film in nearly every regard.
6) I agree that OHMSS was a little lacking in terms of glits, glamor and gadgets. I would've been fine if DAF had added some of those elements while not destroying the story/characters. It kind of set the series on a shaky direction in the 70's and 80's.
7) Have a cohesive tone. Bond's wife dying doesn't mesh well with a comedy film. Connery looking mirthless and apathetic most the time didn't mesh well with the idea of having a colorful film.
DAF was one of those films I would just want erased from the series. A View to a Kill at least had moments that were totally riveting and Die Another Day had certain sci-fi elements that were entertaining. DAF didn't really add anything to the series.
I don't have a ton of criticism on this one because it's one of the better Bond films. There are at least a dozen Bond films I would revise before even touching LALD. It was creative, had style, some of the best casting in the whole series, a great intro to Moore. But here are things I would've changed:
1) Make Rosie Carver into an actual CIA agent instead of just a naked idiot.
2) Keep J.W. Pepper but only for a few scenes. He added some humor, but he stuck around too long and it ran the joke into the ground. (I get that EON wanted to balance negative black stereotypes with negative white stereotypes, but it was just excessive).
3) The boat chase was too long. I get they wanted action. But the directing on it wasn't overly compelling, and the setting of a boring bayou wasn't the most thrilling place for an extended action sequence.
4) Centering an entire plot around Solitaire being worthless if she loses her virginity is just crude. Who wrote the plot on that one, a third-world dictator?
Again, this is your chance to say whatever you would have done differently with the film, so things like; plot changes, character additions or subtractions. Anything you like. People will be given the chance to give their responses within 7 DAYS from today (this may change so let me know if you want me to extend the time for longer) until the discussion moves on to the next James Bond film. This will run until we reach SKYFALL as a discussion for SPECTRE already exists.
Looking forward to hearing what you guys think.
Two moments you really look forward to and are a let down...hence LALD never leaves the teens in my rankings,a real shame.
I have a very, very special place in my heart for LALD, which may sort of inhibit my good sense of being critical at times. But LALD came out over here in Germany in very late 1973 or early 1974 (check IMDb if it matters), when I was 17, and I saw it three times at different cinemas (including one in Austria) during its first run, which never happened to any other movie (I saw THE ROCKY HORROR PICTURE SHOW five times within a year or so in five different German cities, but not during the "first run", and likewise I saw Disney's JUNGLE BOOK at least five times here or there, but spread out over a considerable period of my youth).
Anyway, what I never really liked about LALD in spite of that was the whole supernatural angle. Not the stuff that could be explained as some set-up by whomever, but the "a man is coming" psychic angle and the she's-useless-if-she's-no-longer-a-virgin" nonsense. The tarot cards' influence, especially with the cards backed with "007" seemingly out of nowhere. And on a different level, the first really blatant employment of a car sponsor ever, with more than ninety per cent of cars appearing being 1973 Chevy models. Then of course, today one might wonder about racism...but at any rate it pales agains the racism being apparent in the original novel, and I don't think that the Kananga/Mr. Big gang are portrayed as evil BECAUSE they are black in the movie. Not "in spite" either, but that's what makes it normal, doesn't it?
I assume that viewers at the time saw the film in 480p. The imperfections of the CGI wasn't apparent enough to make it look totally stupid.
Was it CGI ? in 1973 ?
Viewers at the time saw the movie at the cinema, on copies of the regular analog film stock. There was no VHS and therefore no 480 or whatever "p". Also, there were special effects, but nothing to be considered "CGI" at the time. Whatever there was, was on film. I don't know how they could have done the "inflation" thing any better, except dropping it altogether.
Spot on.
Bond had to beat Baron Samedi,Kananga,Whisper and Tee-Hee.....right at the end of the film...Whisper and Tee-Hee i can live with,they are just hoodlums,but i expected more from the other two,and that is why LALD will never break into my top 10.
The aforementioned Kananga explosion was pretty cheesy, so perhaps that should be tightened up. The same goes for the snakes in the finale. They're obviously cheap fakes.
If I was to be really picky, I'd make the bus/cop car chase a little more exciting. I found the pacing and stunts a bit lacking in thrills. Moreover, I never understood why the cops didn't pick Bond and Solitaire up before they started moving. After all, they were just sitting there looking at them as they boarded it. Once Kananga gave the word they should have just pulled up in front of the bus.
I personally don't mind the Baron Samedi fight.
That's about it. Great film on the whole.
* A pre-credits sequence that's actually exciting and actually features Bond. And which gives Moore a memorable introduction. Every Bond actor but Roger had a memorable first scene--think of the delayed face reveals in DN and OHMSS, the dramatic turnaround on the face of Gibraltar in TLD, etc.
* No dull heroin giveaway scheme. The original's plot of Pirate treasure and gold smuggling is more exciting and appropriate to high adventure.
* No Rosie Carter, no J. W. Pepper, no obnoxious comedy relief at all. Moore was more than able to supply enough humor.
* No Bond tricking Solitaire into having sex with him. I'd be perfectly happy with the character choosing on her own to leave the abusive Mr. Big and join Bond, thus setting the film in motion.
* Keeping the chase scenes (the best-done parts of the film). The original book was structured as a series of chases anyway (Bond meets Mr. Big, Bond runs away with his girl, Mr. Big runs after and catches her, Bond chases him down and destroys him), and chases are one of the most primal elements of cinema. So follow the book's structure.
* Restore the parts of the book later used in LTK, like Leiter's maiming and Bond feeding the Robber to the sharks. It gives Bond (and the audience) more motivation to destroy the villain.
* Eliminate the Kananga/Mr. Big nonsense and just use Mr. Big. Have Geoffrey Holder play him instead of the physically unimposing Yaphet Kotto. And restore some of the marvelous bored-aesthete speeches Fleming gave him. The film made a mistake in separating Mr. Big from Baron Samedi. Combining them makes the villain more intimidating and scary.
* Restore the original climax. No running around in a low budget knock-off of previous Bond villains' lairs. Instead Mr. Big summons Bond (caught after his midnight swim to plant a limpet bomb on Mr. Big's yacht) and Solitaire to his cave, filled to the ceiling with pirate gold, and says he will keelhaul them from his yacht, which he damn well does. Before Bond and Solitaire drown the bomb goes off, everyone lands in the drink, and the sharks turn the sea red with blood. Mr. Big is last seen being eaten alive.
Revalotor’s analysis is so correct but effectively he is so eloquently saying is that they should have stuck to the book.
Like most ghosts that haunt this hallowed cyber Hall, PussyNoMore has seen every screen adaptation ever but frankly with the exception of OHMSS and the ‘06 version of CR (both of which should have been made immediately after GF with Dalton in the lead) the whole thing post Goldfinger, has been a depressing experience.
The Pussy adored Sir Roger (RIP) both as a person and as the Saint but he was never Bond and was totally miscast in the role.
That said, in a funny way, it didn’t matter because the movies bore no relation to Fleming’s Bond either as they dissipated into slap stick super hero nonsense.
Ironically, although this route made eon billions - which for most is what it’s all about - it ran out of steam when their slap and stick could no way match the slap and the stick of the CGI Marvel gang and they found themselves trapped between a rock and a hard case.
Hence the CR reboot with the equally miscast Mr.Craig.
Ten years latter and after three progressively ridiculous sequels, the Craig era has also completely run out of steam but this time, the stakes are even higher. The real super hero’s - if you like that sought of thing - are bigger and better than ever and unless Bond is to receive an iron heart transplant, replace his finger nails with retractable daggers and grow wings, he simply won’t be able to compete.
Surely, now is the time for eon to go back to the source material and do the whole lot again.
Re-cast Bond, start with L&LD and in answer to this thread - change everything.
As Revelator said, make it just like Fleming’s great novel. It isn’t possible to improve on perfection.
I think Solitaire should have been played by a black actress. It'd make more sense anyway imo since we meet her on San Monique, and I'm not really a fan of the whole 'nasty black man kidnaps white woman and is prepared to sacrifice her in front of the chanting natives of his island until the great white imperialist hero comes in and saves her' part of the plot. Make Solitaire black like they intended and any troubling racial subtext is gone.
I think the plane chase should have been cut, it feels a bit pointless to me. Have Solitaire recaptured during the escape on San Monique.
Trim the boat chase dramatically and add some music. I genuinely struggle to get through it. I actually think Pepper is fine in this one though, one of the bad guys getting pulled over by the racist hick sheriff during a chase scene is a good gag.
Change the finale. The whole film feels so fresh and different but then it feels lazy at the end with the secret base. Not quite as lazy as DAF after the Blofeld reveal but still very played out by this point.
@Revelator I really like all of your original suggestions. I'd never thought about making it that much closer to the book before since the best bits have all found their way into films since imo, but I can't fault anything you've said there.
I don't mind the PTS as it is (love the funeral bit) but what might have been an idea is to trim it down a bit and then go the TSWLM/MR route. So show the set up, back to MI6, "where's Bond", cut to big action scene. It would mean getting a traditional M's office bit instead of the scene at Bond's flat but the film would still feel fresh enough anyway imo without that. Also I don't see why Q wasn't in the film. I've read it's because they wanted to dial back the gadgets, but then he still has the new watch, so why not have Q give it to him?
If they really wanted someone blowing up like a balloon, let it be Pepper if he still had to be in it.
I do recall seeing photos of the effects guys working in the water with the dummy of Kananga, so it was done for real! It's awful and disappointing death for a good villain. They should have just let the sharks finish him off!
I mentioned in another thread that they should have kept the deaths of the 3 agents for after the credits and had a separate intro for Moore, something like GF!
Otherwise it's a great Bond start for Rog!
IIRC Mankiewicz also favored that idea, and thought Diana Ross could have played the role. The producers were sympathetic but decided to play it safe (and even then Bond's love scene with Rosie was cut in South Africa). Nevertheless making Solitaire black would have been an excellent idea, for the reasons you gave above. I even wonder why Fleming didn't go that route (since the character would have been more plausible that way) until I remember the book's ugly racial-sexual politics: a white hero preventing miscegenation by taking a white woman from a black man. A part of the novel that certainly did not need to be adapted. Making Solitaire black would have definitely improved on the book. And judging from Bond's remarks in Quantum of the Solace, he would have had no problem with a black love interest.
True, having Solitaire as a black woman would certainly have improved the novel.
Dramatically, wouldn't you say?
Why is Bond competing with superheroes? Totally different audience demographic. The mistake EON are making is thinking $1bil every film is achievable when it was more a perfect storm of fortuitous circumstances. Bond's natural box office is in the $600-800m bracket. It's not a $1bil per film franchise like Star Wars or superhero shite.
Anyway as to the question in hand, apart from @Revelator's fairly obvious and common sense solution of just filming the book I think the following small tweaks would improve things:
- Cast someone who can act as Rosie or just bin the character altogether.
- Ditch the airport sequence entirely.
- Cut down some of the bloated boat chase. Much as I enjoy JW he has no place in a decent Bond film so ditch him and have a much more tense chase.
- Obviously come up with a better death for Katanga.
So which moments of AVTAK were "totally riveting" - the fight in the microchip room, Rog hanging from the fire truck chased by the Keystone Cops, the suspense of if he'll get the taxi from the intimidating driver or be carved up by the chefs whose work he ruined after falling into the boat, the quiche baking scene? I must've missed them.
Same with DAD and sci-fi elements. The invisible car, the Robocop suit, the space laser that was already done in DAF? How about Zao's Jaguar with the machine gun? Bond I can see having gadgets in his car but a henchman? Wouldn't a chase across an icy lake been cool enough?
On the subject of LALD, it seems out of place for Rog's first film. It calls out for a tougher Bond. Lazenby would've worked better here. The tougher characterization from TMWTGG would've worked better than the charming, disarming Bond here.
And I still recall a criticism a while back describing it as mostly just a film built around chases and captures and that's how it feels and is very middle to back of the pack for me.
One stunt that looks really pedestrian now is the scene where Charlie the driver is shot through the dart and the car careens down the highway. Why the hell couldn't Bond have hauled himself over the seat instead of trying desperately to steer from back there?
PussyNoMore would respectfully disagree that the Bond movie demographic is not the superhero demographic.
A quick trawl through movie posts on this site would show that when not talking Bond it’s invariably superheroes that dominate. Outside of the literary section there is little mention of serious espionage fiction.
It is clear that Bond fandom split long ago into two factions:
The minority who love the books and whom probably appreciate everything cinematic pre DAF and who pine for faithful interpretations of Fleming’s work. This faction is not growing.
The vast majority who have never read the books and whom love everything to do with crash, bang and wallop and who probably are as attached to the Marvel franchise as they are to Bond.
This faction is growing like topsy and a lot of them live in China.
There isn’t anything wrong with this but to pretend that the movies post OHMSS have anything to do with Fleming’s Bond is just a little bizarre.
I agree with all of your points except these two. Tracy did have sex with Bond on a hotel balcony the night she met him in the casino, right? And I think Piz Gloria is the quintessential exotic Bond location (and he is completely cut off from MI6, which is wonderfully dramatic).
These are some really good ideas.
I wonder how much of Moore's Bond was Mankiewicz, and how much was Moore. By which I mean: if Mankiewicz had written a less comedic character (and had included the eventual LTK scenes), would Moore have played Bond as harder-edged throughout his tenure? Or had DAF's success already sealed the filmic Bond's fate?
I read that they felt the gold smuggling scheme was a bit dated, especially amid raw early '70s cinema. I thought that the heroin scheme was a reasonable update.
I love the idea of combining Big and Samedi, I really do.
Like many Bond films, LALD starts very strong, in New York. But the film loses substantial momentum when they get to New Orleans, and I think you are right: they needed to go back to Fleming. Certainly the boat chase could be cut in half (pun intended) and the airplane chase cut entirely. But the crocodile farm is great, as is the final train fight with Tee Hee (two great additions by someone).
I never understood the going back and forth between New Orleans and San Monique. The film should have had a clear progression: New York--> New Orleans--> San Monique.
I don't like made-up locations. Just call it Jamaica already.
There is definitely a "cheap" feel to some of the plot. One villain promises to throw Bond out of a plane without a parachute. (Why bring it up then? Of course this eventually happened in MR.) We never see Bond swimming up to Kananga's lair. Both of those moves feel disappointing, like they didn't want to bust the budget.
All that being said, only Roger Moore could get away with tricking naive virgin Solitaire into bed. That part of the film totally works, IMHO, and Moore and Seymour have genuine chemistry (second only to Moore and Maud Adams in OP).
Of course my sample only refers to England so I can't speak for other countries like PussyNoMore appears happy to do with China but at least it is a sample not pure speculation, unless I'm being unkind and PussyNoMore has actually visited Bond screenings at Harbin Odeon?
But the people on here comprise what? 50-100 people? So even if they are all hardcore Marvel fans even more so than they are Bond fans their opinion is of little account as sparrow's tears when it comes to the Bond demographic which brings in the box office. We on this site are nothing. Our combined revenues would barely fill one cinema so I guess I can understand why EON wouldn't give a toss about foisting things like brothergate on the world. As long as the majority of the great unwashed (who may or may not be Marvel fans too) keep turning up that is far more important than if we here pay for a ticket for multiple viewings.
Take SP as an example, I (a hardcore Bond fan) went 4 times at the cinema. So why would EON court people like me when a bog average family can wipe out my box office in one sitting?
Franchises like Marvel and Star Wars however are built on repeat business from the hardcore fan base and the impact when those fans are not catered for can be seen in the poor box office for The Last Jedi.
Is it? PussyNoMore's evidence please....
I think PussyNoMore does a disservice to some of our younger members who have read the books and are eager to learn. It's likely PussyNoMore is correct that Fleming fundamentalists are dying out but I still see well written and intelligent posts from younger members on here regarding the books.
Once again I think PussyNoMore does the people on here a disservice. I would say the overwhelming majority on here have read the books. I agree there does seem to be a depressing number of people who enjoy the repetitive CGI tedium of the Marvel films but to suggest they are the 'vast majority' of Bond fans is somewhat hysterical.
Again evidence? PussyNoMore seems to basing a lot of this thesis on pure supposition. Do we even have a single confirmed Bond fan who posts here who lives in China?
What of the 'faction' PussyNoMore has totally ignored that enjoys both the books and the sheer indulgence of Rogertainment? I don't know how many we number but I'd wager there's more of us than Chinese fans on here.
To pretend that the excess of parts of TB and the whole of YOLT has more to do with Fleming than a chap called Dalton and Craig's CR is even more bizarre.
I'm sorry but I'm find almost all of PussyNoMore'a points highly speculative at best.