007: What would you have done differently?

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  • Lancaster007Lancaster007 Shrublands Health Clinic, England
    Posts: 1,874
    echo wrote: »
    Film the book.


    Not sorry.

    So you would have cast Chiles as Brand?

    I agree that the score was way too sedate. Barry needed a jolt of energy for this one.

    If she could do an English accent;-)

    In all seriousness though when I say "film the book" , and not to speak for anyone else but I'm sure I'm not alone, what I mean is take the basic plot of the book, stick to it as close as you can, when allowing for the fact that when you're adapting a book for cinema certain changes will need to take place.

    If you look at the very first few Bond films they are very very close to the books and all the more successful for it. Of course there are changes, sometimes which makes the story better (having Spectre involved in FRWL, The slight change to Goldfinger's plan), sometimes it might make it not as good (filming OHMSS and YOLT out of order, having Spectre involved in DAF), but in general they are basically adapting Flemings stories. Even something like Live and Let Die sticks reasonably close to the Fleming while changing the pirate gold to the more modern drugs angle. That's absolutely fine.

    But by the time you get to the Man with the Golden Gun, the titles are just being used but the plots bear absolutely no resemblance to the original books. If the plots that had been thought up were as good as, or better than, the original then that would be fine. But they were not. They completely changed the character of Bond during this period, so he was totally different to Flemings idea.

    Oh way before that! YOLT, nothing like the book, DAF, nothing like the book, LALD, nothing like the book! And I'm just talking about the general plots, some character names remain but mostly so far from the books you wouldn't recognise the 'source' material.
  • Posts: 19,339
    echo wrote: »
    Film the book.


    Not sorry.

    So you would have cast Chiles as Brand?

    I agree that the score was way too sedate. Barry needed a jolt of energy for this one.

    If she could do an English accent;-)

    In all seriousness though when I say "film the book" , and not to speak for anyone else but I'm sure I'm not alone, what I mean is take the basic plot of the book, stick to it as close as you can, when allowing for the fact that when you're adapting a book for cinema certain changes will need to take place.

    If you look at the very first few Bond films they are very very close to the books and all the more successful for it. Of course there are changes, sometimes which makes the story better (having Spectre involved in FRWL, The slight change to Goldfinger's plan), sometimes it might make it not as good (filming OHMSS and YOLT out of order, having Spectre involved in DAF), but in general they are basically adapting Flemings stories. Even something like Live and Let Die sticks reasonably close to the Fleming while changing the pirate gold to the more modern drugs angle. That's absolutely fine.

    But by the time you get to the Man with the Golden Gun, the titles are just being used but the plots bear absolutely no resemblance to the original books. If the plots that had been thought up were as good as, or better than, the original then that would be fine. But they were not. They completely changed the character of Bond during this period, so he was totally different to Flemings idea.

    Change the whole damn thing except the score,RogerBond actually spying,the centrifuge and the pheasant shoot scene with Corinne's death.

  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,588
    With MR I would forgive most of the excess of "Rog nonsense", as long as they'd dropped Jaws/Dolly altogether, and never sent Bond to space at all. The film loses my interest completely at that point. Had the climax of the film taken place at Drax' base, which is already a great set, I'd be happy. Instead it's my least favourite of Rog's films.

    You know I can get on board with that last part. The Amazon base is one of the more underrated sets in the franchise. Especially the area in which Bond and Drax are discussing the orchid. I played the Aztec level in GE before I'd seen the film so I already fell in love with that set piece. Too bad that they never spent more time there considering the amount of man hours put into it.

    All this talk makes me want to watch MR tonight
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Other than that I wouldn't change a thing. Not space, not the Jaws/Dolly romance, not Jaws switching to Bond's side, not the Bondola, not the funny musical interludes, not even the double-taking pigeon. MR was the first big screen Bond film I saw on a theater screen as a child and I thoroughly loved it as it exists and it remains a fond sentimental memory for me.
    Yeah you've talked me round. Bugger the book.

    Just slap MR in your bluray player, sit back, indulge yourself and smile. It's impossible not to have a good time watching MR.
  • Posts: 2,917
    Unless you leave your brain on.
  • Posts: 17,756
    With MR I would forgive most of the excess of "Rog nonsense", as long as they'd dropped Jaws/Dolly altogether, and never sent Bond to space at all. The film loses my interest completely at that point. Had the climax of the film taken place at Drax' base, which is already a great set, I'd be happy. Instead it's my least favourite of Rog's films.

    You know I can get on board with that last part. The Amazon base is one of the more underrated sets in the franchise. Especially the area in which Bond and Drax are discussing the orchid. I played the Aztec level in GE before I'd seen the film so I already fell in love with that set piece. Too bad that they never spent more time there considering the amount of man hours put into it.

    All this talk makes me want to watch MR tonight

    Glad I'm not the only one who think that. A set like that had deserved more.
  • Posts: 7,653
    Moonraker the book is a well written book but so awfully outdated a concept to make a movie of. They tried it twice with MR & DAD.
    MR the movie with Roger Moore is a brilliant and well executed movie that is both comic and well made and makes later 007 movies look poor in the Special department. Sure it could be tweaked here and there but mostly it was Roger Moore in his prime and best.

    DAD did run with the Drax persona, him being Korean compared to German in the book. Their idea of a killer satellite makes more sense than a rocket on London.

    If somebody would make a movie based upon the book it would be a snorefest as the best action is the lack of it. Flemings skill writing an exciting card game is difficult to film. Look at the effort they had to make the card game in CR as exciting, they did with all the skill they had. The rest of the book is just so outdated and already done in various movies I would not touch the story with a large pole.

    As a literary Fleming fan I do enjoy the book a lot but recognize its limitations being transferred to the medium movie.
  • Posts: 12,837
    @Revelator That was a great read and sounds so much better than the dull TSWLM retread we got. I love how you even went with the original ending of the book but still managed to make it lighter to keep it more in line with the other Moore movies. Really well done.
  • Posts: 2,917
    @Revelator That was a great read and sounds so much better than the dull TSWLM retread we got. I love how you even went with the original ending of the book but still managed to make it lighter to keep it more in line with the other Moore movies.

    Many thanks! It was an extremely fun challenge to rework the book into a 1979 Moore-era blockbuster that meet the needs of Fleming-fans and the casual moviegoer. Adaptation is a terrifically interesting subject, especially the issue of being true to the spirit of the original even when deviating from its letter. The films of GF and OHMSS did this beautifully and are a great template for anyone devising "new" adaptations of the other books.
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    All this talk makes me want to watch MR tonight

    Go for it.
    Other than that I wouldn't change a thing. Not space, not the Jaws/Dolly romance, not Jaws switching to Bond's side, not the Bondola, not the funny musical interludes, not even the double-taking pigeon. MR was the first big screen Bond film I saw on a theater screen as a child and I thoroughly loved it as it exists and it remains a fond sentimental memory for me.
    Yeah you've talked me round. Bugger the book.

    Just slap MR in your bluray player, sit back, indulge yourself and smile. It's impossible not to have a good time watching MR.

    Agreed. I remember watching MR after a very bad day and it provided the exact escape from a sad reality that I needed at that moment.
  • Posts: 520

    Revelator wrote: »
    Unless you leave your brain on.

    Clearly an optional accessory for any considering this travesty remotely representative of Fleming’s fabulous novel.
    Revelator wrote: »

    Adaptation is a terrifically interesting subject, especially the issue of being true to the spirit of the original even when deviating from its letter. The films of GF and OHMSS did this beautifully and are a great template for anyone devising "new" adaptations of the other books.

    This is the point. Of course cinematic licence is not only permissible but indeed desirable when it comes to screen interpretations.

    Look what a fabulous job David Farr did adapting Le Carre’s ‘Night Manager’ for the BBC. He gave it the elan and modernity needed for a TV audience but respected completely the source.
    PussyNoMore would opine that this was done with DN, FRWL, GF,TB & OHMSS to good effect.

    If we ignore the fact that Sir Roger was sadly miscast, he never benefited from a decent adaptation and this one was a particularly sad affair particularly given how good and relevant the book is.

    As PussyNoMore has consistently pointed out, there is a market for this spoof nonsense. Even the ‘67 CR movie had its fans but surely even the most strident fantasist has to admit that these movies have nothing to do with Fleming’s Bond?




  • Posts: 19,339
    I would still like to see the Amazon Headquarters meeting that Drax, had but never made the cut.

    It looked great with the round table and seats that came out of the floor,almost reminicent of King Arthur and the round table.

    And the fact that Moonraker 5 was sitting right above it was impressive.

    Such a wasted moment.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    edited April 2018 Posts: 4,588
    The Moonraker novel has put me to sleep multiple times. I'm glad we got the film in its place. You have to figure that it was the late 70s with the rise of blockbuster films. If we would have received an hour of how Bond and M are figuring out how Drax cheats at bridge than it's a snorefest and the possible demise of the series. The book was written in the 50s. If the film was shot in the same time period then it's fine. But not when you have Star Wars, Star Trek, Close Encounters, Jaws etc populating the movie screens.
  • Posts: 787
    bondsum wrote: »

    Get rid of the goofball humour. That means out goes Q branch's ridiculous gondola, plus Jaws and Dolly. DON'T set it in space. DON'T follow the same plot as TSWLM again. DON'T tell your audience that your movie isn't science fiction but science fact, thank you very much Cubby. Let it be Moore's last Bond movie and let him go out in style with a solid Bond story that follows but updates on Fleming's novel.

    Agreed. For me, MR is a classic example - maybe the classic example - of EON's tragic flaw of leaving no ideas on the cutting room floor.

    I've said this before, but consider the gondola chase. The double-taking pigeon is (rightly) ridiculed, but watch that scene again and note that there are also double-taking:
    -musicians
    -sailor
    -tourist
    -painter
    -waiter
    -dog
    And they cap it off with one of the henchmen pratfalling into the water.

    Any single one of these wouldn't have to be fatal, but together they're too much. I feel like I'm babysitting a 7-year-old who keeps resorting to more and more outrageous antics to get my attention. What's that, Bond's on a horse? 4 bars of the 'The Magnificent Seven' theme, obviously.

    No, dammit! Just relax and have faith that everyone involved 'gets it' without having to flail the damned thing until it's lifeless.
  • Posts: 520
    The Moonraker novel has put me to sleep multiple times. I'm glad we got the film in its place. You have to figure that it was the late 70s with the rise of blockbuster films. If we would have received an hour of how Bond and M are figuring out how Drax cheats at bridge than it's a snorefest and the possible demise of the series. The book was written in the 50s. If the film was shot in the same time period then it's fine. But not when you have Star Wars, Star Trek, Close Encounters, Jaws etc populating the movie screens.

    The Pussy thinks this shows a remarkable lack of imagination as to how the novel could be adapted.
    Mark you, if this is a book Has put somebody to sleep, there might not be a lot of light at the end of their particular tunnel.
    As to the time line, DN,FRWL & GF were all written in the ‘50s and made great transitions to the screen.
    The fact of the matter is that Sir Roger’s Bond movies had little to do with Fleming’s novels save the titles and the names of some of the characters.

  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,588
    The Moonraker novel has put me to sleep multiple times. I'm glad we got the film in its place. You have to figure that it was the late 70s with the rise of blockbuster films. If we would have received an hour of how Bond and M are figuring out how Drax cheats at bridge than it's a snorefest and the possible demise of the series. The book was written in the 50s. If the film was shot in the same time period then it's fine. But not when you have Star Wars, Star Trek, Close Encounters, Jaws etc populating the movie screens.

    The Pussy thinks this shows a remarkable lack of imagination as to how the novel could be adapted.
    Mark you, if this is a book Has put somebody to sleep, there might not be a lot of light at the end of their particular tunnel.
    As to the time line, DN,FRWL & GF were all written in the ‘50s and made great transitions to the screen.
    The fact of the matter is that Sir Roger’s Bond movies had little to do with Fleming’s novels save the titles and the names of some of the characters.

    I've read all of the Fleming novels and Moonraker was the only one that couldn't be adapted properly. It's easy to transition from the 50s to 60s because films were still slower back then. Outside of war films, the blockbuster era hasn't come into fruition yet.
  • Posts: 15,117
    For all the comments about Moonraker being impossible to adapt, let's not forget that it might be the novel of Fleming that has been plundered the most: AVTAK, GE, DAD, to name the ones that come to my mind, all have elements directly or indirectly inspired by the novel. Even in OP Khan uses a line originally from Hugo Drax. I don't think it is much to ask for a little bit more of the source material in the movie. I like some parts of MR but it went way too far into sci-fi.
  • edited April 2018 Posts: 3,333
    octofinger wrote: »
    I've said this before, but consider the gondola chase. The double-taking pigeon is (rightly) ridiculed, but watch that scene again and note that there are also double-taking:
    -musicians
    -sailor
    -tourist
    -painter
    -waiter
    -dog
    And they cap it off with one of the henchmen pratfalling into the water.

    Any single one of these wouldn't have to be fatal, but together they're too much.
    Well put, sir. The humour was laid on so thick in this particular scene, it stopped being funny after the first double-take. It certainly didn't need the overkill of seven more in the final cut.
    The Moonraker novel has put me to sleep multiple times. I'm glad we got the film in its place. You have to figure that it was the late 70s with the rise of blockbuster films.
    The rise of the so-called blockbuster was evident with the "disaster movie" trend which culminated in such classics as Jaws, The Towering Inferno, The Poseidon Adventure and finally Star Wars, Grease and Superman: The Movie, which obviously weren't disaster movies. Before that, Thunderball was considered to be the first of the blockbusters. Either way, I'm not quite sure what any of this has got to do with MR being a silly rehash of TSWLM set in space? The Bond movies always did have exceptionally large audiences and were the front-runners for the 70's "blockbusters". A term that has since lost its original meaning as very few movies nowadays have queues running around the blocks such as the examples that I've already given.

    I think it's worth noting that if you watch the original trailer for MR. You know, the one we all saw before buying our tickets, then you'll notice that there's zero indication that the movie is going to be a puerile spoof. The tone of the trailer is quite serious using musical cues taken from DAF and Dr. No with no hint of Bond being the butt of the jokes.

    I'll post the original trailer below to remind you of how we, the audience, were suckered into believing the tone of this movie wouldn't be a total take-off...


  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited April 2018 Posts: 9,117
    Mark you, if this is a book Has put somebody to sleep, there might not be a lot of light at the end of their particular tunnel.
    Absolutely. Anyone offering such a statement about arguably Fleming's best novel should be taken down the vet and put to sleep permanently IMO.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,588
    Mark you, if this is a book Has put somebody to sleep, there might not be a lot of light at the end of their particular tunnel.
    Absolutely. Anyone offering such a statement about arguably Fleming's best novel should be taken down the vet and put to sleep permanently IMO.

    Perhaps I should give it another shot then. 10 pm start time for books is a recipe for sleep.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Mark you, if this is a book Has put somebody to sleep, there might not be a lot of light at the end of their particular tunnel.
    Absolutely. Anyone offering such a statement about arguably Fleming's best novel should be taken down the vet and put to sleep permanently IMO.

    Perhaps I should give it another shot then.

    Either that or a shot at the vet office. Easy choice.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,298
    octofinger wrote: »
    bondsum wrote: »

    Get rid of the goofball humour. That means out goes Q branch's ridiculous gondola, plus Jaws and Dolly. DON'T set it in space. DON'T follow the same plot as TSWLM again. DON'T tell your audience that your movie isn't science fiction but science fact, thank you very much Cubby. Let it be Moore's last Bond movie and let him go out in style with a solid Bond story that follows but updates on Fleming's novel.

    Agreed. For me, MR is a classic example - maybe the classic example - of EON's tragic flaw of leaving no ideas on the cutting room floor.

    I've said this before, but consider the gondola chase. The double-taking pigeon is (rightly) ridiculed, but watch that scene again and note that there are also double-taking:
    -musicians
    -sailor
    -tourist
    -painter
    -waiter
    -dog
    And they cap it off with one of the henchmen pratfalling into the water.

    Any single one of these wouldn't have to be fatal, but together they're too much. I feel like I'm babysitting a 7-year-old who keeps resorting to more and more outrageous antics to get my attention. What's that, Bond's on a horse? 4 bars of the 'The Magnificent Seven' theme, obviously.

    No, dammit! Just relax and have faith that everyone involved 'gets it' without having to flail the damned thing until it's lifeless.

    Well put. Star Wars brought the youth audience to the fore, so perhaps they were trying to keep the kids going back and back to the theater. (Most kids in '79 would not have seen The Magnificent Seven, though.)
  • Lancaster007Lancaster007 Shrublands Health Clinic, England
    Posts: 1,874
    The Moonraker novel has put me to sleep multiple times. I'm glad we got the film in its place. You have to figure that it was the late 70s with the rise of blockbuster films. If we would have received an hour of how Bond and M are figuring out how Drax cheats at bridge than it's a snorefest and the possible demise of the series. The book was written in the 50s. If the film was shot in the same time period then it's fine. But not when you have Star Wars, Star Trek, Close Encounters, Jaws etc populating the movie screens.

    I don't think anyone's suggesting a film of the book verbatim. But it could have followed the story a lot closer and not been so silly as it was. And Gala Brand is a (so far) wasted Bond Girl. To me she's one of the most memorable and I'd love to see her on the big screen, but…
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,271
    The Moonraker novel has put me to sleep multiple times. I'm glad we got the film in its place. You have to figure that it was the late 70s with the rise of blockbuster films. If we would have received an hour of how Bond and M are figuring out how Drax cheats at bridge than it's a snorefest and the possible demise of the series. The book was written in the 50s. If the film was shot in the same time period then it's fine. But not when you have Star Wars, Star Trek, Close Encounters, Jaws etc populating the movie screens.

    I don't think anyone's suggesting a film of the book verbatim. But it could have followed the story a lot closer and not been so silly as it was. And Gala Brand is a (so far) wasted Bond Girl. To me she's one of the most memorable and I'd love to see her on the big screen, but…

    Camille at the end of QoS reminds me of Gala Brand at the end of the Moonraker novel though. Both women don't hook up with Bond.
  • Posts: 19,339
    They can at least use the 'Gala Brand' name.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,271
    barryt007 wrote: »
    They can at least use the 'Gala Brand' name.

    Yes, it's more upmarket than Holly Goodhead. ;)
  • Lancaster007Lancaster007 Shrublands Health Clinic, England
    Posts: 1,874
    barryt007 wrote: »
    They can at least use the 'Gala Brand' name.

    I think they were going to in DAD, but decided against it, and thought Miranda Frost was a way better name…go figure.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited April 2018 Posts: 18,271
    barryt007 wrote: »
    They can at least use the 'Gala Brand' name.

    I think they were going to in DAD, but decided against it, and thought Miranda Frost was a way better name…go figure.

    Yes, I recall that. They'd have ruined the character anyway by making her a traitor as opposed to an ally so I'm glad they didn't use it in DAD. It would've been like what they later did with Mathis in CR. DAD is a very loose adaptation of the Moonraker novel.
  • mybudgetbondmybudgetbond The World
    Posts: 189
    Gala is a great character. I love the ending of Moonraker, Bond doesn’t get the girl.

    I loved that at the end of Quantum too. Would have made no sense for them to just jump into bed together after what they had been through.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,588
    Mark you, if this is a book Has put somebody to sleep, there might not be a lot of light at the end of their particular tunnel.
    Absolutely. Anyone offering such a statement about arguably Fleming's best novel should be taken down the vet and put to sleep permanently IMO.

    Perhaps I should give it another shot then.

    Either that or a shot at the vet office. Easy choice.

    What about the ol yeller route?
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