007: What would you have done differently?

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  • edited May 2018 Posts: 11,425
    bondsum wrote: »
    Can't disagree with what @Birdleson wrote about OP with regards to stripping away the tomfoolery. There are some things I like about OP, then there's an awful lot I dislike too. Terrible song, totally forgotten entry that barely made an impact in the charts. Then again, I'm surprised to read that neither did DAF nor YOLT. Despite a lot of us disliking Sheena Easton's "For Your Eyes Only" song, it did reach No.4 on the billboard 100. Surprised also to see that Sam Smith's "Writing's On The Wall" only reached No.71, which begs the question how the hell did it ever win an Oscar?

    The raid on Kamal Khan's fortress with Q's hot air balloon, sporting a Union Jack design, is toe-curling bad. Remove it and replace it with a raid something more akin to OHMSS's Piz Gloria attack, certainly tonally. Boy, was I missing Harry Saltzman's touch after an absence of 4 movies by this point. Didn't like Bond dressed as a clown either, but thought it fitted in well with Moore's portrayal, so quite apt really. Otherwise, rewrite this final segment and don't have Bond dressed as Coco The Clown. I'd rather they'd just lifted Goldfinger wholesale and had 007 handcuffed to the bloody bomb. Mrs Kael is totally correct in her summary when she says: "At one moment, Octopussy is a leader, and the next moment she's a dupe, who doesn't know what's going on around her. The role is a washout, and the performance is so smiley-innocuous that when she leads Bond to her octopus-shaped bed it must be to lie back against the pillows and have a nice cup of tea and milk." Overall, a much better looking entry than its predecessor, but a damp squib nonetheless. Good poster, apart from Moore's incredibly long legs! Looks like he's on stilts.

    who doesn't like the FYEO song?!! or All Time High for that matter?

    crazy talk.

    where did WOTW reach 71? pretty sure it was no.1 in the UK and a lot of other places.

    Agree the attack on Kamal's palace is dire. the FYEO climax is better and would have worked well for OP
  • edited May 2018 Posts: 19,339
    Getafix wrote: »
    bondsum wrote: »
    Can't disagree with what @Birdleson wrote about OP with regards to stripping away the tomfoolery. There are some things I like about OP, then there's an awful lot I dislike too. Terrible song, totally forgotten entry that barely made an impact in the charts. Then again, I'm surprised to read that neither did DAF nor YOLT. Despite a lot of us disliking Sheena Easton's "For Your Eyes Only" song, it did reach No.4 on the billboard 100. Surprised also to see that Sam Smith's "Writing's On The Wall" only reached No.71, which begs the question how the hell did it ever win an Oscar?

    The raid on Kamal Khan's fortress with Q's hot air balloon, sporting a Union Jack design, is toe-curling bad. Remove it and replace it with a raid something more akin to OHMSS's Piz Gloria attack, certainly tonally. Boy, was I missing Harry Saltzman's touch after an absence of 4 movies by this point. Didn't like Bond dressed as a clown either, but thought it fitted in well with Moore's portrayal, so quite apt really. Otherwise, rewrite this final segment and don't have Bond dressed as Coco The Clown. I'd rather they'd just lifted Goldfinger wholesale and had 007 handcuffed to the bloody bomb. Mrs Kael is totally correct in her summary when she says: "At one moment, Octopussy is a leader, and the next moment she's a dupe, who doesn't know what's going on around her. The role is a washout, and the performance is so smiley-innocuous that when she leads Bond to her octopus-shaped bed it must be to lie back against the pillows and have a nice cup of tea and milk." Overall, a much better looking entry than its predecessor, but a damp squib nonetheless. Good poster, apart from Moore's incredibly long legs! Looks like he's on stilts.

    who doesn't like the FYEO song?!! or All Time High for that matter?

    crazy talk.

    where did WOTW reach 71? pretty sure it was no.1 in the UK and a lot of other places.

    Agree the attack on Kamal's palace is dire. the FYEO climax is better and would have worked well for OP

    FYEO song : I don't like
    OP song : I do like
    WOTW : did indeed reach #1 here in the UK,beating Duran Duran's AVTAK which got to #2.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited May 2018 Posts: 23,883
    barryt007 wrote: »
    WOTW : did indeed reach #1 here in the UK,beating Duran Duran's AVTAK which got to #2.
    These are indeed sad times we live in, when that is the case. I was in the UK back then. I did a search today and learned that Paul Hardcastle's 19 ("nananana 19") beast kept it from the top spot. No shame in that.

    AVTAK hit #1 in the US though. I think it was the only Bond song to do that.
  • Posts: 19,339
    bondjames wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    WOTW : did indeed reach #1 here in the UK,beating Duran Duran's AVTAK which got to #2.
    These are indeed sad times we live in, when that is the case. I was in the UK back then. I did a search today and learned that Paul Hardcastle's 19 ("nananana 19") beast kept it from the top spot. No shame in that.

    AVTAK hit #1 in the US though. I think it was the only Bond song to do that.

    It does seem strange that no Shirley Bassey song or AVTAK could get to #1 and that howling,wailing mess WOTW did .
  • Posts: 3,333
    Getafix wrote: »
    where did WOTW reach 71? pretty sure it was no.1 in the UK and a lot of other places.
    The US Billboard Hot 100, apparently. Looks like the US has slightly better taste than our own current young musical enthusiasts. Thing is, you don't have to sell very much anymore to get a No.1 in the UK, hence why so much dirge fills our musical charts. I believe the UK was the only place WOTW was No.1. Elsewhere (Japan #50, Australia #43, Sweden #63) it wasn't as well received abroad as people might think.
    barryt007 wrote: »
    WOTW : did indeed reach #1 here in the UK,beating Duran Duran's AVTAK which got to #2.
    Well, if you were to base it on chart position alone, then yes, you could say WOTW beat AVTAK. However, if you were to base it on the actual record sales, then Duran Duran's song would kick Sam Smith's backside from here to oblivion.
  • edited May 2018 Posts: 19,339
    bondsum wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    where did WOTW reach 71? pretty sure it was no.1 in the UK and a lot of other places.
    [quote}The US Billboard Hot 100, apparently. Looks like the US has slightly better taste than our own current young musical enthusiasts. Thing is, you don't have to sell very much anymore to get a No.1 in the UK, hence why so much dirge fills our musical charts. I believe the UK was the only place WOTW was No.1. Elsewhere (Japan #50, Australia #43, Sweden #63) it wasn't as well received abroad as people might think.

    Sam Smith has a massive fan base in the UK (God knows why ?!) and with all these digital downloads and other easy ways to access the song,it was bound to get there or there abouts,as @bondsum mentions below.

    With AVTAK having to literally be bought in a shop on the high street to register the 'vote' back in 1985,it would have no chance via just records or cassettes.
    Sad really.
    barryt007 wrote: »
    WOTW : did indeed reach #1 here in the UK,beating Duran Duran's AVTAK which got to #2.
    Well, if you were to base it on chart position alone, then yes, you could say WOTW beat AVTAK. However, if you were to base it on the actual record sales, then Duran Duran's song would kick Sam Smith's backside from here to oblivion.

    Which unfortunately doesn't change the history books.
  • edited May 2018 Posts: 3,333
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Which unfortunately doesn't change the history books.
    Which history books are those @barryt007? No one cares about the music charts anymore... and no one certainly cares about what was No.1 in the UK, outside of the UK that is. Anyone who's savvy to the charts of old knows that an artist used to have to sell a million copies to reach either No.2 or No.1 in the Eighties. The average current Official Number 1 single has sold only between 100,000 and 110,000 copies a week in 2013 and 2014. That's the only history lesson you need to know.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited May 2018 Posts: 23,883
    All good points. Keep in mind that US charts in the 80s were also based on airplay in addition to sales. UK charts were based on salesonly. That all changed in the early 90s with Soundscan. I used to have an old top 40 chart history book by Casey Kasem which I was fascinated by (I think I still have it somewhere).

    It's very valid re: the decline in hard copy music media over the years. To some extent the same thing applies to movie tickets, but it's masked by the obsession with currency measures to measure box office rather than bums in seats.
  • edited May 2018 Posts: 3,333
    Indeed @bondjames. Thank you for the additional information.

    On the title song, Cubby Broccoli wanted Laura Branigan to sing the movie's theme song, whose signature song, the platinum-certified 1982 hit single "Gloria" was riding high in the US charts the previous year. It was on the advice of his daughter, Barbara Broccoli, who was a big fan of Rita Coolidge that pushed for the Coolidge songstress to take the helm. Funnily enough, even though the song didn't do well in either the US or the UK, it did perform pretty well on the continent. They always were a funny lot over there.

    Anyway, I can still recall seeing the 45 single picture-sleeve on sale in Oxford Street's HMV and not knowing anything about the song. Of course I purchased it without having heard it on the radio or even in the music store, as no one was playing it. Eager to get home and give it a spin, you can imagine my total disappointment when I heard the first few refraining bars. I couldn't believe my beloved John Barry had written such a duff title track!! Of course, I can say this as someone who helped the single reach #75 in the UK single charts. Though I'm willing to bet that had Coolidge had the same fortune as Sam Smith and been released into today's UK market, then she too would also have had a No.1 single. Maybe another way of looking at it, had Sam Smith had the misfortune to have had his single released in 1983 then he would also have only charted at #75 (if that!) We live in strange times.
  • Posts: 11,425
    never realised all time high was held in such low esteem. I regard it as an enjoably cheesy entry to the Bond musical hall of fame. prefer it to the dirge that is Thunderball or Lulu's screeching on TMWTGG.
  • edited May 2018 Posts: 17,756
    Quite like All Time High, too. Listened to it today actually.
  • Posts: 7,653
    I found the story of OP where we consider Octopussy as criminal only to find out that one of her accomplices plays a double game an excellent choice, I am always amazed when a story gets a bit more complex that the naysayers complain. As a story it makes more sense than the last two 007 movies with Craig.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Charlotte Rampling would have made a fine Octopussy.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Charlotte Rampling would have made a fine Octopussy.

    Yes. And since they referenced the backstory they should d have stuck to the specifics (a flashback would have been excellent).

    The pts perhaps?
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,298
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Charlotte Rampling would have made a fine Octopussy.

    Yes. And since they referenced the backstory they should d have stuck to the specifics (a flashback would have been excellent).

    The pts perhaps?

    Love the idea.
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    edited May 2018 Posts: 2,252
    I love Octopussy, but All Time High is one of the worst theme songs and aside from WOTW, the one I listen to the least (yes including DAD and AWTD)
  • Posts: 7,653
    äll time high"is indeed an oddball of a song but I am fine with it after all these years, I know it represents a splendid 007 installment.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    edited May 2018 Posts: 1,711
    All Time High has grown on me over the years, and I now like it as a song, but somehow the production and performance just sound cheap, and not up to series standards.
  • Posts: 12,467
    I love All Time High and Moonraker’s title song. Great lighter Bond songs for my taste.
  • Posts: 3,333
    Getafix wrote: »
    never realised all time high was held in such low esteem. I regard it as an enjoably cheesy entry to the Bond musical hall of fame. prefer it to the dirge that is Thunderball or Lulu's screeching on TMWTGG.
    Thunderball's a great Bond song!! I don't mind Lulu's either. It's not fantastic, but it's not offensive to my ears either. Trouble with All Time High is that it sounded rather like elevator muzak back in 83. With the passage of time it now sounds like an All Time Low. But I'd still put it head and shoulders above WOTW. It's strange but LALD was the last decent high-octane Bond song until AVTAK came along. Even Carly Simon's was a bit too melancholic for my own '77 palette, though it does have a nice little fanfare closing segment, which I quite liked.
  • Posts: 16,163
    As far as the early 80's easy listening, soothing sounds of Bond go, ALL TIME HIGH to me is no better or worse than that other soothing 1983 hit, NSNA.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited May 2018 Posts: 23,883
    bondsum wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    never realised all time high was held in such low esteem. I regard it as an enjoably cheesy entry to the Bond musical hall of fame. prefer it to the dirge that is Thunderball or Lulu's screeching on TMWTGG.
    Thunderball's a great Bond song!! I don't mind Lulu's either. It's not fantastic, but it's not offensive to my ears either. Trouble with All Time High is that it sounded rather like elevator muzak back in 83. With the passage of time it now sounds like an All Time Low. But I'd still put it head and shoulders above WOTW. It's strange but LALD was the last decent high-octane Bond song until AVTAK came along. Even Carly Simon's was a bit too melancholic for my own '77 palette, though it does have a nice little fanfare closing segment, which I quite liked.
    Agreed. I love TB. Jones belts it out like no other (except Shirley perhaps).

    All Time High is boring but as I mentioned in my earlier comments, I don't find it offensive or irritating (like I do the sickening WOTW). So I don't mind it. I agree that they could have chosen something a bit more lively.

    RE: LALD and AVTAK, Rog started and ended on high paced rock style songs. Both are faves of mine. I love Carly's track too though - lyrically and in every other way. It's become quite iconic and for good reason. It sums up Roger's Bond better than anything else - a fitting tribute to his style and the film.
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    As far as the early 80's easy listening, soothing sounds of Bond go, ALL TIME HIGH to me is no better or worse than that other soothing 1983 hit, NSNA.
    I agree. Both inoffensive but somewhat forgettable.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    edited May 2018 Posts: 15,423
    I happen to enjoy both. "All Time High" and "Never Say Never Again", that is.
  • Posts: 16,163
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondsum wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    never realised all time high was held in such low esteem. I regard it as an enjoably cheesy entry to the Bond musical hall of fame. prefer it to the dirge that is Thunderball or Lulu's screeching on TMWTGG.
    Thunderball's a great Bond song!! I don't mind Lulu's either. It's not fantastic, but it's not offensive to my ears either. Trouble with All Time High is that it sounded rather like elevator muzak back in 83. With the passage of time it now sounds like an All Time Low. But I'd still put it head and shoulders above WOTW. It's strange but LALD was the last decent high-octane Bond song until AVTAK came along. Even Carly Simon's was a bit too melancholic for my own '77 palette, though it does have a nice little fanfare closing segment, which I quite liked.
    Agreed. I love TB. Jones belts it out like no other (except Shirley perhaps).

    All Time High is boring but as I mentioned in my earlier comments, I don't find it offensive or irritating (like I do the sickening WOTW). So I don't mind it. I agree that they could have chosen something a bit more lively.

    RE: LALD and AVTAK, Rog started and ended on high paced rock style songs. Both are faves of mine. I love Carly's track too though - lyrically and in every other way. It's become quite iconic and for good reason. It sums up Roger's Bond better than anything else - a fitting tribute to his style and the film.
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    As far as the early 80's easy listening, soothing sounds of Bond go, ALL TIME HIGH to me is no better or worse than that other soothing 1983 hit, NSNA.
    I agree. Both inoffensive but somewhat forgettable.

    What I find offensive about WOTW was that it won the Oscar whereas many far superior title tracks in Bond history weren't even nominated.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondsum wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    never realised all time high was held in such low esteem. I regard it as an enjoably cheesy entry to the Bond musical hall of fame. prefer it to the dirge that is Thunderball or Lulu's screeching on TMWTGG.
    Thunderball's a great Bond song!! I don't mind Lulu's either. It's not fantastic, but it's not offensive to my ears either. Trouble with All Time High is that it sounded rather like elevator muzak back in 83. With the passage of time it now sounds like an All Time Low. But I'd still put it head and shoulders above WOTW. It's strange but LALD was the last decent high-octane Bond song until AVTAK came along. Even Carly Simon's was a bit too melancholic for my own '77 palette, though it does have a nice little fanfare closing segment, which I quite liked.
    Agreed. I love TB. Jones belts it out like no other (except Shirley perhaps).

    All Time High is boring but as I mentioned in my earlier comments, I don't find it offensive or irritating (like I do the sickening WOTW). So I don't mind it. I agree that they could have chosen something a bit more lively.

    RE: LALD and AVTAK, Rog started and ended on high paced rock style songs. Both are faves of mine. I love Carly's track too though - lyrically and in every other way. It's become quite iconic and for good reason. It sums up Roger's Bond better than anything else - a fitting tribute to his style and the film.
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    As far as the early 80's easy listening, soothing sounds of Bond go, ALL TIME HIGH to me is no better or worse than that other soothing 1983 hit, NSNA.
    I agree. Both inoffensive but somewhat forgettable.

    What I find offensive about WOTW was that it won the Oscar whereas many far superior title tracks in Bond history weren't even nominated.
    Politics my friend. Politics.

    It's a filthy business.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,298
    One thing I would change is that I would tell Louis Jordan to drag out the name "Octopussy" even more. His intonation of her name always makes me chuckle.
  • edited May 2018 Posts: 2,917
    Oooooctopooooooooooooooooseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    SaintMark wrote: »
    A grand and uniquely Bond adventure as they have not made anymore, the last in his sort. Wouldn't change anything because as a package is still an absolute entertaining movie.

    Well stated. OP was the last pure "strictly for the fun of it" Bond adventure providing a delightful experience for the viewer.
  • Posts: 1,917
    Somebody should do a mash-up video with Connery's pronunciation of "Pooshy" contrasted with Jourdan's. That could be funny.
  • Posts: 11,189
    cast a better actress than Maud Adams. As exotic as she is I just don't think she's very good in the film. She always comes off like she IS acting.
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