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007: What would you have done differently?

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  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,791
    bondjames wrote: »
    I'm curious to see the influence next.
    Logan. Fury Road. There are interesting possibilities.

    The John Brosnan James Bond in the Cinema book is definitely recommended, folks can find used copies of the 1972 original plus the updated 1981 version.
  • bondsumbondsum
    Posts: 3,333
    Probably @BAIN123. I never take much notice of what celebrities say about other actors or movies anyway. Have you noticed the current tend of when an actor, or actress, is now asked what movies have you seen recently they tend to respond with: "I haven't seen anything" like their plane journey doesn't have inflight entertainment on it or they don't get invited to premiers. It's almost as if watching a movie that they're not starring in is beneath them and is only a pastime of the common people.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    They do seem to be quite tight-lipped. Either that or offer fairly hollow comments like "yes it was great. He/she really nailed it" etc.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    bondsum wrote: »
    I remember that book by John Brosnan. I think it was originally published in '72 and was continually updated with the latest Bond movie, right up until MR, though he did review FYEO and AVTAK for Starburst magazine. I quite enjoyed reading Brosnan's reviews but I never particularly agreed with everything that he wrote. For instance, he disliked OHMSS and LALD but he liked AVTAK!! Starburst was one of those magazines I bought from it's very first issue in '77. I think by the time of trash like OP and AVTAK, I was plucking it off the shelves in bookstores to just read his review. Possibly because I found the gulf growing ever increasingly larger between his views and my own and the Bond movies dropping in quality, I stopped purchasing the magazine altogether.

    Brosnan's reviews were the main reason i used to get Starburst magazine. So funny and entertaining, but you're right, i rarely agreed with them.

    I remember he slaughtered Star Trek II my favourite Trek film!
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    Being a relative youngster I had no idea there was a "another" Brosnan associated with Bond until I joined this site.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Being a relative youngster I had no idea there was a "another" Brosnan associated with Bond until I joined this site.

    He was chuffed when Pierce got the Bond gig as he reckoned people might start pronouncing his name right!
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    How can you not pronounce the name right? It's pronounced pretty much like its spelt.
  • bondsumbondsum
    edited May 2018 Posts: 3,333
    LeonardPine wrote: »
    bondsum wrote: »
    I remember that book by John Brosnan. I think it was originally published in '72 and was continually updated with the latest Bond movie, right up until MR, though he did review FYEO and AVTAK for Starburst magazine. I quite enjoyed reading Brosnan's reviews but I never particularly agreed with everything that he wrote. For instance, he disliked OHMSS and LALD but he liked AVTAK!! Starburst was one of those magazines I bought from it's very first issue in '77. I think by the time of trash like OP and AVTAK, I was plucking it off the shelves in bookstores to just read his review. Possibly because I found the gulf growing ever increasingly larger between his views and my own and the Bond movies dropping in quality, I stopped purchasing the magazine altogether.

    Brosnan's reviews were the main reason i used to get Starburst magazine. So funny and entertaining, but you're right, i rarely agreed with them.

    I remember he slaughtered Star Trek II my favourite Trek film!
    Great magazine in its heyday. Another used to be Hammer Horror Magazine. I don't remember his review for Star Trek II. How wrong could he have been? But here's the thing, I never took any notice of what other reviews said. I just enjoyed reading their take on a movie, whether I agreed with it or not.
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    How can you not pronounce the name right? It's pronounced pretty much like its spelt.
    You have to remember that most people probably would've pronounced it as Bronson, like Charles Bronson the actor, and not as Brosn-san.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    It's interesting that Connery recommends someone like Mel Gibson for Bond at about the 28:00 mark in that interview above, which was a great watch by the way. Age 35 or theareabouts he says. He had it right even back then
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited May 2018 Posts: 11,189
    @bondsum. Fair point.

    I suppose it shows our age difference. In my lifetime Pierce Brosnan has always been a fairly big star. Charles Bronson was an actor who starred in a few old revenge films and had a supporting part in The Great Escape as far as I'm concerned.

    Bottom line: I would have thought of Brosnan before I thought of Bronson.
  • bondsumbondsum
    Posts: 3,333
    Charles Bronson was a huge, huge movie star. It doesn't just show one's age, it also shows one's depth of movie knowledge. :)
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited May 2018 Posts: 11,189
    You’ve got me there.

    I haven’t really seen him outside of TGE and Death Wish.

    (Hangs head in shame)
    bondjames wrote: »
    It's interesting that Connery recommends someone like Mel Gibson for Bond at about the 28:00 mark in that interview above, which was a great watch by the way. Age 35 or theareabouts he says. He had it right even back then

    Instead of a blunt instrumen Mel became a lethal weapon ;)
  • bondsumbondsum
    Posts: 3,333
    I know it's off topic, so I'll be quick. Check him out in The Mechanic (1972) the superior original, and Mr. Majestyk (1974), and The Streetfighter (1975). Sorry for being off topic.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    Thanks fellas.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    So TLD. I’d Ike to know @bondsum’s thoughts on Joe Don Baker in the film and whether he thinks Oliver Reed would have worked in an alternative universe.
  • ToTheRightToTheRight
    Posts: 16,163
    LeonardPine wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    If he said that at the time of FYEO then I dread to think what he thought of AVTAK - a film that REALLY doesn’t hold up well.

    I feel sorry for Roger having to wear that leather jacket in the later half of the film. Obviously trying to make him look cool.

    Comparitively I think FYEO is a good film. Roger’s still reasonably believable as an older spy, a good revenge story and some charismatic performances.

    I don't think he minded AVTAK as he was a fan of Airships. I remember he liked the plot which reminded him of GF. I know he hated OP.

    Brosnan always preferred the more science fiction James Bond plots.

    His book, 'James Bond In the Cinema' is sadly out of print.

    I remember he said AVTAK was probably the best of Roger's Bond films, and that Moore looked leaner and meaner. Or something to that effect.
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Even old Bazza described OP as "great fun" back in 1983 (7.57)

    (7.57)

    I wish I knew what he genuinely thought of Dalton/TLD in 1987.

    I wonder if he was biased because he was friends with Roger.

    I recall an interview with Sean while promoting THE PRESIDIO , when asked if he'd ever play Bond again he responded that he was too old as was Roger, and he thought that Timothy Dalton was doing very well.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    Just quickly. Did John Brosnan get to see Pierce in GE. If so what did he think?
  • BT3366BT3366
    Posts: 1,917
    Long before the market was littered with books about the Bond movies, Brosnan's book was an oasis. I got the updated edition in '81 and it was great in that it went into depth describing the films in those days before VCRs became commonplace.

    I'm curious as to how Brosnan got permission from Eon to do such a book in the first place, particularly when he is relates early history of the series and is free in his criticisms. He also had officially licensed stills, which a lot of other authors like Stephen Jay Rubin weren't granted.

    I have a lot of Starbursts with his columns and he was very polarizing in his views, but always interesting. Sad he's no longer with us as it would be interesting to pick his brain from a fan perspective on sites like this.
  • bondsumbondsum
    edited May 2018 Posts: 3,333
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    So TLD. I’d Ike to know @bondsum’s thoughts on Joe Don Baker in the film and whether he thinks Oliver Reed would have worked in an alternative universe.
    Not the same Oliver Reed of Castaway (1986) I certainly don't. no. True story: I was meant to do a photo shoot with Amanda Donohoe in the Seychelles where that particular movie was being shot. The plan was was for me to fly out after the shooting had begun. Trouble was Oliver got pissed one night, hurt himself badly, production was suspended and everyone was flown back home. The other bummer being it was my last few weeks at the company I was working for so by the time shooting resumed, I had already left so couldn't do it. So Grrr Oliver Reed. Thing is, I was looking forward to having a few beers with Ollie and cosying up with Amanda. Just think of the stories I could've told rather than this sad old tale.
  • TorgeirtrapTorgeirtrap
    edited May 2018 Posts: 17,756
    Think you'd remembered any of those stories if you'd have beers (or drinks) with Oliver Reed, @bondsum? He must have been quite good at drinking.

    Shame it didn't happen though, but a good "what-if" story!
  • RevelatorRevelator
    Posts: 2,917
    bondsum wrote: »
    I'm assuming that the origins of Bond pitch that Wilson and Maibaum wanted to try was with a much younger actor in place of Dalton?

    That's what I assume, though Dalton could have played a Bond in his early 30s rather than 20s. There's a thread on the Absolutely JB Board that mentions Robin of Sherwood actor Michael Praed being tested for the role of a young Bond. This was a bit of a surprise, since Cubby was said to have nixed a young Bond reboot after reading the second treatment for the project. Praed is not mentioned in either The Making of TLD or Some Kind of Hero, so I'm a little suspicious of his claim.

  • AntiLocqueBrakesAntiLocqueBrakes The edge
    edited May 2018 Posts: 538
    Revelator wrote: »
    As others have said, there's a lot to like in TLD. I think the film's main flaws are (1) weak villains and (2) an over-complicated plot.
    To fix (1), some recasting might be required. Krabbe is a very good actor, but his Koskov is more comical than evil. Ditto for Joe Don Baker as Whittaker.
    Fixing (2) would require more thought, but perhaps Whittaker's character isn't really necessary to the film and could be written out, thus giving more villainy to Koskov. And perhaps that diamond smuggling subplot didn't need fleshing-out.

    Going in a different direction, I sometimes wonder what the film might have been like if Kara really had been a top KGB sniper, as she was in Fleming's original short story (there she was known only as "Trigger"). Obviously this would have resulted in a much different movie, but it could have been a very interesting one. Various scenarios could be spun from it: Bond and Trigger finding themselves repeatedly assigned against each other, with a twisted love affair developing between the two assasins. Unlike the film of TSWLM, where XXX was rather cuddly and never seemed that deadly, Trigger would have to be portrayed as an honest-to-God killer and very good at her job.
    Perhaps there would be a sad finale where Trigger is jailed or fatally punished by the KGB for her failure. Or perhaps both she and Bond ultimately choose patriotism over love and the film ends where it began, with Bond assigned to shoot Trigger before she kills someone else--and this time having no choice but to kill her, albeit with deep sadness afterward.


    Great post.
    Kara and Necros had a lot more potential. Whitaker could have been removed. I like Krabbe as the goofy villain, but only if he plays off against Necros and a crueler Kara, who needed to be what the album cover suggested. Not sure if D'Abo could pull that off.

    I love TLD though. Favorite movie. Dalton is perfect. Necros was brutal, Koskov and Whitaker were a couple of lovable assclowns, and I'm surprised there wasn't a Rambo III convergence scene at the end.
  • bondsumbondsum
    edited May 2018 Posts: 3,333
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    Think you'd remembered any of those stories if you'd have beers (or drinks) with Oliver Reed, @bondsum? He must have been quite good at drinking.

    Shame it didn't happen though, but a good "what-if" story!
    I'm sure he'd have drunk me under the table, but I would've given it a good go. I also really wanted to hang out with Nicolas Roeg. Yeah, what if...
    Revelator wrote: »
    That's what I assume, though Dalton could have played a Bond in his early 30s rather than 20s. There's a thread on the Absolutely JB Board that mentions Robin of Sherwood actor Michael Praed being tested for the role of a young Bond. This was a bit of a surprise, since Cubby was said to have nixed a young Bond reboot after reading the second treatment for the project. Praed is not mentioned in either The Making of TLD or Some Kind of Hero, so I'm a little suspicious of his claim.
    That's interesting @Revelator. I do remember Michael Praed being a very hot property among the teens at the time of Robin of Sherwood. I've just discovered on Alternative007 that it was his agent that claimed that Praed did a very extensive screentest (with Fiona Fullerton) and that it was essentially him and one other chap competing against one another. Someone called Mark Greenstreet who was in something called Brat Farrar. It's entirely possible that he was screentested. The young Bond concept was clearly nixed after Wilson and Maibaum had worked on a draft of some sort and Cubby then got cold feet. There's nothing to say that he didn't decide to pursue the idea to see where it would take them, including screentesting possible candidates, to then decide to go back to an older 007. Further delving there was an interview with Praed on BBC's Radio Stoke with James Watt where he discusses the subject in length...

    https://bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02wr8nr
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,297
    Michael Praed of Dynasty? Interesting.
  • TorgeirtrapTorgeirtrap
    Posts: 17,756
    bondsum wrote: »
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    Think you'd remembered any of those stories if you'd have beers (or drinks) with Oliver Reed, @bondsum? He must have been quite good at drinking.

    Shame it didn't happen though, but a good "what-if" story!
    I'm sure he'd have drunk me under the table, but I would've given it a good go. I also really wanted to hang out with Nicolas Roeg. Yeah, what if...

    Didn't Roeg work on CR 67?
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Just quickly. Did John Brosnan get to see Pierce in GE. If so what did he think?

    He died in 2005 so I'm sure he saw Pierce's output. Not sure what he thought. I know he said Pierce should have been Batman in the 1989 film and Michael Keaton should have been the Joker....!
  • bondsumbondsum
    Posts: 3,333
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    bondsum wrote: »
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    Think you'd remembered any of those stories if you'd have beers (or drinks) with Oliver Reed, @bondsum? He must have been quite good at drinking.

    Shame it didn't happen though, but a good "what-if" story!
    I'm sure he'd have drunk me under the table, but I would've given it a good go. I also really wanted to hang out with Nicolas Roeg. Yeah, what if...

    Didn't Roeg work on CR 67?
    He did. As well as second unit photography on Lawrence of Arabia and Doctor Zhivago. The other earlier Bond connections are that he also worked on Tarzan's Greatest Adventure (1959) that starred a young Sean Connery and The Trials of Oscar Wilde (1960) which was produced by Albert R. Broccoli.
    LeonardPine wrote: »
    He died in 2005 so I'm sure he saw Pierce's output. Not sure what he thought. I know he said Pierce should have been Batman in the 1989 film and Michael Keaton should have been the Joker....!
    I somehow recall that comment from John Brosnan. Funny thing was I read that Burton did first approach Pierce Brosnan to play Batman, but he had no interest in playing a comic book character. He also offered Ray Liotta a chance to audition but he too turned it down.
  • TorgeirtrapTorgeirtrap
    Posts: 17,756
    bondsum wrote: »
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    bondsum wrote: »
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    Think you'd remembered any of those stories if you'd have beers (or drinks) with Oliver Reed, @bondsum? He must have been quite good at drinking.

    Shame it didn't happen though, but a good "what-if" story!
    I'm sure he'd have drunk me under the table, but I would've given it a good go. I also really wanted to hang out with Nicolas Roeg. Yeah, what if...

    Didn't Roeg work on CR 67?
    He did. As well as second unit photography on Lawrence of Arabia and Doctor Zhivago. The other earlier Bond connections are that he also worked on Tarzan's Greatest Adventure (1959) that starred a young Sean Connery and The Trials of Oscar Wilde (1960) which was produced by Albert R. Broccoli.

    Bet you'd be able to hear some interesting stories from all those films! CR 67 seemed like a difficult production, from what I've read. Indeed, what if…
  • Master_DaharkMaster_Dahark
    Posts: 4,813
    A solid movie, but I guess if I had to change something, make it Bond fighting Necros in the kitchen, instead of that random agent. Having Bond lose to him would have upped the stakes for a rematch later!
  • TorgeirtrapTorgeirtrap
    Posts: 17,756
    Master_Dahark wrote: »
    A solid movie, but I guess if I had to change something, make it Bond fighting Necros in the kitchen, instead of that random agent. Having Bond lose to him would have upped the stakes for a rematch later!

    That's actually a good point!
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