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This is your chance to say whatever you would have differently wit the film, so things like; plot change, character additions or subtractions. Anything you like. People will be given the chance to give their responses within 7 DAYS from today (this may change so let me know if you want me to extend the time for longer) until the discussion moves on to the next James Bond film. This will run until we reach SKYFALL as a discussion for SPECTRE already exists.
Hope you guys enjoy hearing everyone's responses!
Yeah, sure I'd have liked a more 'Fleming' feel to it like TLD, but that wasn't gonna happen back then. It was ushering in a new Bond who didn't smoke, was nicer to the ladies, and had real feelings because he was a hero first and a gifted yet semi-self-destructive cog in the cold war machine second.
Similarly, rethink the action scenes. Avis car rental, really? Or the underwater scene that goes nowhere fast? Or the motorcycle chase that goes on forever? Or the climax that goes on forever?
Recast Hatcher with Bellucci or someone European and let Paris live longer into the movie (roughly as far as Andrea makes it in TMWTGG), because Wai Lin and Bond have zero chemistry to carry the film.
Take out the silly moments (the bicycle fight, much of the Q scene). Take out the smarmy Moneypenny lines. Take out the remote control car--c'mon, Bond behind the wheel is so Bondian! I don't want to see him in the back seat.
The movie is kind of terrible.
Couldn't be put any better!
But... that scene gave us the greatest gif of all time...
What would i have done differently?
Not much again, TND was my favorite Bond when It came out (i knew maybe 5 in total back then) but i would have recast Paris, Teri Hatcher is rather bland and I can't believe Bond would have kept her around for more than a weekend.
And make the Finale a bit more engaging.
The title Song could have been better but i like Crow, so keep her.
I agree with a lot of this myself (except the BMW chase which I enjoy).
It's all very hollow, lightweight perhaps worst of all feels souless.
But he wasn't on the road was he ;)
As often is the case the second hour has its flaws, especially the never ending shoot 'em up finale. Lose a few minutes of that and replace it with an extended sequence where Bond and Wai Lin are captured and facing a real threat from Kaufman's toys, and you really would have a pretty decent couple of hours of entertainment.
I have always felt Spottiswood had more idea about how to capture the mood of Bond on the big screen than many other directors. Wish he had had more time to polish it all up a little further.
Carver is a very traditional Bond villain (world domination) and all the better for that.
I always liked this one despite its over reliance on big set pieces.
Yes Spottiswood I think had more of an appreciation for the look and feel of a trad Bond movie than any of the other Brosnan era directors.
Well Martin Campbell was the only one to come back so I’d say this applies more to him.
I get your point but I think a lot of this was down to having a much bigger budget in TND.
At least GE had a bit more of a balance between action and drama and had one big set piece (the tank chase) as opposed to lots of smaller ones.
The scene in the newspaper print plant looks and feels how you'd hope a Bond film would in the mid 90s.
The Bilbao sequence in TWINE is also a highlight of the Brosnan era and feels like it would fit into TND quite well.
these brief moments are few and far between though.
they should have had me in charge.
I always actually liked Brozza himself. Even if he does have a super TV vibe about him. After seeing TND at the cinema I remember thinking that may be they might at least be able to turn his era into a decent Roger tribute act - which seems to have been their strategy with him - but then it all went down hill again rapidly with TWINE.
i would rank the Brozza films:
TND
DAD
GE
TWINE
Indeed, the action for GE seemed integrated into the plot much better. TND seems more in line to TSWLM and MR where the plots were built around the action set pieces.
However I think TND felt more traditional, as @Getafix says, without necessarily being a better film.
Wouldn't change too much with this film. I do like it a lot.
Get rid of the stupid voice in the car.
Get rid of the moment the car crashes into the AVIS shop. It's too convenient and is a pretty crap joke.
Although it can drive itself the car is boring to look at and isn't what i'd call a Bond car.
Cut out Jack Wade. He isn't needed and the character is annoyingly unfunny.
Brosnan in naval uniform just doesn't work. He looks ridiculous for some reason. Moore carried it off superbly and looked like a naval officer.
The climactic assault on the Stealth goes on a bit too long but it's not a major problem.
He looks good but almost TOO good. As if he was in a parade rather than on duty.
Funnily enough the computerized female voice seems fine in light of today’s “Alexa”.
Having said that, I like the PTS and Sheryl's song. Both quite nicely done in my view. Most of the action isn't bad either, especially the bike chase.
Some additional changes to the above which would satisfy me:
-advise Brosnan to tone down his acting a bit. While he was suitably restrained in GE, here he is in full on slick willy smarm mode. It's most apparent during the AVIS sequence with Q, where he gives LLewelyn the look over one too many times (he does it with Wade as well).
-reshoot the Paris hotel sequence. I always get the impression that Brosnan is about to cry and I find it unbecoming of Bond. A troubling precursor to even more breakdowns to come in the next film.
-re-choreograph the fight sequences. They are bloody awful, especially the one in the print factory. The fight at Carver's media fanfare is no better. A major climb down from the excellent climactic GE encounter imho.
-remove the Americanisms. They are annoying and unnecessary. "cell phone" "station break" etc. I recall shaking my head in the theatre upon first viewing.
-either remove or significantly reshoot the Devonshire dive sequence. It is way too similar to the sequences in FYEO and even NSNA. Particularly the former.
-tighten up the Stealth boat ending. It goes on forever and lacks tension. There are some good moments (like Bond using a dead Carver thug as a deception), but they are few and far between. Carver's death is especially pathetic and a let down.
-get better writers. Some of the puns and one liners (especially in the ending) are particularly cringe worthy.
That's about it for now.
There was little Fleming in the Gilbert films. But they at least had more class and felt distinctly more British.
I'd agree with you in relation to possibly YOLT and TSWLM but less so regarding Roger in MR - where he felt more like Brett Sinclair at times.
-Given Carver/Pryce less ham and more menace.
-re-cast Terri Hatcher
-a total re-write of the Bond/Paris love scenes
-cut out or re-edited most action after the BMW car chase
This would also be the first Bond movie that would feature the surveillance techno wall of monitors. Of course it had appeared in limited supply in TLD and GE, but it was in TND that it took on Orwellian proportions by tracking 007 on an actual mission.
There's a lot I like in TND though. I absolutely loved Vincent Schiavelli as Dr. Kaufman. I just wished we'd gotten to see more of him in the movie, that's all. Stamper was sadly just another Hans from YOLT, totally underwritten and undeveloped. And as much as I like Jonathan Pryce, I'm not sure he was right for the Elliot Carver role. Jack Wade is still a twat, so there's at least some consistency leftover from GE. There's nothing particularly wrong with Teri Hatcher's acting, other than to say she doesn't come over as that likeable a person (on or off-screen). Clearly, Brosnan felt the same way as he's instantly forgotten Paris Carver's death when he's in his BMW remote control backseat driver mode, smiling and laughing like a kid at the fairground.
However, for the huge budget, I do feel this movie should've been much better than it actually was. I don't like Sheryl Crow's whiny title song. Give me Lulu's TMWTGG over this dirge any day of the week. The final third of this movie feels much like SP did, a bit of an ill thought out damp squib. Also, the poster is so boring. Still, I think this is Brosnan's best Bond movie.
I also don't agree with some of the posts discrediting Roger Spottiswoode's suitability for Bond. Let's not forget that aside from Stop! Or My Mom Will Shoot, he had also directed Under Fire (1983) and Deadly Pursuit (1988) as well as being co-writer for 48 Hrs. (1982). After all, it's not as if Martin Campbell had an action-orientated resume before GE, now is it?
I think “Shtampaa” looked like some sort of Thunderbird puppet. And he also gets the terribly cheesy lines "make him uncomfortable" and "I owe you an unpleasant death Mr Bond".
Going back to Gilbert, neither are as good as "look after Mr Bond...see that some harm comes to him"
I wouldn't necessarily give Gilbert the credit for that line in MR, @BAIN123. For all we know it might've been Tom Mankiewicz's uncredited work he did for that movie, as he also did for TSWLM (for which he did an uncredited rewrite).
Changes? I'd have made Carver's death less formulaic. I'm not keen on the big battles at the end of Bond films. That started with YOLT I suppose. But Carver was a great villain, and I didn't mind the hamming it up at all. I liked it.
I liked the little touches in TND, like where Bond tests the ashtray on the back of his hand before smashing it over the guys head in the soundroom fight.
I'd change the Q scene. I think the remote control car thing is a bit too far-fetched to be believable. Goldeneye had one of the best Q scenes ever, ("it's my lunch!"), so it's a shame TND didn't have a strong Q scene.
Brozza looked his best in TND. What a dude!
- Fix whatever the issue was which prevented Anthony Hopkins from playing Carver.
- Cast Monica Bellucci as Paris
- As for Paris, I don't mind the character in the least, or the idea of her anyway — that the audience is expected to accept her being someone important from Bond's past, or that that importance was established off-screen. I prefer that to her being Sylvia or having Natalya come back, etc. If Monica was playing her, I'd also push for a bit more screen time.
- As with all the Brosnans, cull the quips/innuendo.
- I agree that the fight scenes are lacking. The print factory fight was cited above as being particularly bad. Agreed. Same with the fight in Wai Lin's place. Especially that cartoon moment where she hits the button on the control panel to neutralize one of the attackers. The only fight I like is the sound room fight.
- Like Kriegler and Necros, Stamper's just a generic muscle. He needs a bit more character to him, something to make him stand out. I think this is what they were attempting to do in establishing his relationship with Kaufman. It's either not enough or comes across as shallow, obvious character building. Maybe they just needed another actor.
- The Rambo Bond finale is overlong and entirely too much. If we have to stick to a big bullets-flying scene, create a YOLT-, TSWLM-, and MR-like battle of 'armies.'
May I ask how old you two are?
I loved TND as a teenager but like it less as a 30-something adult.
That’s the problem I have with TND - it’s a Bond film for teenagers.