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And it would have been nice to have Bond instinctively protect Q when he suspects the bomb is about to go off.
Perhaps controversially, I'd get rid of John Cleese. He takes the series in an unwelcome direction.
This movie (uniquely in the series?) had so much potential to be something special but it all goes wrong when Christmas Jones shows up.
Personally, I really enjoyed this film in the early 2000s but, as I’ve said before, I don’t think it’s aged very well.
The main thing I’d do is re-write chunks of the dialogue. It feels like whoever wrote lines like “you can’t kill me...im already dead...not dead enough for me” was trying too hard to be dramatic.
Therefore TWINE is my least favorite Bond film. Still working on my list of changes, which is lengthy as is.
So I didn't think it was a terribly good Bond film, but it was a step up.
To me it was a considerable letdown compared to TND with boring action and too much melodrama. So much so that i skipped DAD in cinemas later (which i love a lot more by the way).
I have grown to accept the Melodramatic bits more, and Sophie is fantastic, but i still feel like the action is badly implemented and the CGI blades are especially horrible.
Denise Richards does not bother me at all, we had much worse in the franchise. At least they were smart enough to put her in a wet t-shirt, what more can you ask for?
Also the movie still has the Brozz factor so i do enjoy it a lot.
These day, however I'm seeing what many disliked in the film. The cinematography is pretty bland and muted. Denise's character is far too much a caricature, and Renard rival's Waltz's Blofeld as the wimpiest villain in the series.
TWINE doesn't hold up for me much now, as practically any time I pop it in, I soon feel like switching it for another Bond film.
Bond allows himself to get a little too close to Elektra before he even actually meets and interacts with her(the attempt at wiping away her tears from a monitor screen?) Is this the same Bond(character, not actor) who survived the likes of Fiona Volpe and Helga Brandt? The same Bond character who didn't fall for his own wife Tracy until after he'd known her for 3 months and she helped him escape from Fraulein Bunt and company?
I think Bond and Elektra's relationship should've taken more time and developed better with no Christmas Jones on the horizon(although as I stated earlier in this thread I would've been OK if Christmas had just been a minor secondary girl early in the story). That way it would've packed more of a wallop when he figured out her villainy and later had to eliminate her. Perhaps she should've been a woman he'd had a past relationship with though coming on the heels of both TND and GE it might've made the Elektra character seem like the love child and Alec Trevelyan 006 and Paris McKenna Carver.
Also, in an effort to expand Dame Judi's part in the wake of her winning her Oscar, the writers allowed her M to commit judgment and discernment errors that would only seem plausible if Mary Goodnight had been promoted to head of MI6. (Just imagine the field day TND's Admiral Roebuck could've had at her expense if he had appeared in TWINE.) I prefer it when M has a smaller role and basically stays in the office and would rather they had saved the kidnapping of M for a proper screen adaptation of Kingsley Amis' Colonel Sun.
-As others have said: leave the simplicity of the Bilbao escape as the PTS rather than dragging it out. By having the boat chase right after the credits it would’ve really broken the pattern of the villain’s scheme put in motion and/or Bond being called into the office and having a big action scene right after the credits, which I can only think of GE as having done.
-I recall fan talk at the time of TWINE’s talking about how Bilbao was selected basically for no other reason than the cool design of the new Guggenheim Museum in the background and was unnecessary, especially since they mention a Swiss banker. It’s the escape, not so much the setting, particularly as the action wasn’t in that venue.
-The boat chase is the action highlight, but it goes on way too long with just too much thrown especially the humor like the tie-straightening, the two guys getting splashed who were from some TV series many of us had no idea about, crashing through restaurants, etc. Take that out.
-Title song ranks as one of the least memorable. The lyrics are obvious. For the overall score, it reminded me of what Arnold said about giving everything he had for TND as he thought he may never make another and it really shows in the lack of replayability, save for the rousing Bond theme at the closing credits, which isn’t even on the CD.
-Part of TWINE’s problem is it brings up big ideas that have potential and then aren’t fully explored or half-@ssed. A big deal is made of Bond’s shoulder injury, but little is made of it. He’s swinging and skiing and shooting with little to no thought of it, save for Renard in the bunker. Then it disappears again, magically healed or just conveniently forgotten. Leave it out.
-Another is the character of Renard being unfulfilled, which we’ve talked about here many times. Here’s a character with one of the coolest backstories with no ability to feel pain and all we get are he holds hot rocks, punches tables and acts like a jealous teen whose girlfriend cares about somebody else. Carlyle’s Begbie in Trainspotting was one of modern cinema’s most memorable characters as he could be amusing and suddenly terrifying, and even Carlyle’s Once Upon a Time Character is interesting and fun, so it isn’t the actor. He’s just an underwritten bad guy for Bond to dispose of. Develop him.
-TWINE features some of the least interesting locations for any Bond film, especially considering how mysterious and atmospheric such areas were in FRWL, which could also be due to the Cold War timeframe. We don’t need palm trees, but if you’re going to set a majority of a film in one location at least make it somewhat interesting and not so bleak.
-TWINE gets my vote for least interesting action in the series. The ski chase is painfully by the numbers. I imagine some production assistant hollering to cue an explosion as Bond goes past. The bunker is back to TND shootout territory. The pipeline disarming was just blah. The caviar factory is like a Moore era sequence with more comedy than thrills and the ending is just flat. Say what you want, Bond movies are action films, so give me thrills.
-If they were going for this more serious tone, just take out the gadgets altogether. When Bond got the snow escape pod thing, was there any hint he was going into a snowy environment? It seemed like the ski trip to look at the pipeline was Elektra’s idea, making it just a convenient thing to have more than anything else. Bond having a belt with a piton in GE was fine; to have one in a watch, no, that’s pushing it. And didn’t they sell those X-ray glasses in comic books? What’s inventive about that?
-I wasn’t big on Zukovsky in GE and here he’s just turned into a comic buffoon, not an influential gangster. The fact he can be mortally wounded and still make a perfect shot to release Bond from the torture device is just lazy writing. Other supporting characters don’t do much. What was the Goldie/Bull character meant to be comic or dangerous? It just comes off as a distracting cameo and I didn’t even know who the guy was when I saw TWINE the first time. And Dr. Molly Warmflash was just a throwaway Bond conquest, especially in light of the shoulder thing being done away with for the most part.
-Bond himself is written oddly in this. I know some think the tracing Elektra’s tear on the computer thing harkens to the Fleming Bond being a protector of vulnerable women, but it doesn’t translate to the screen. I hate how Bond is duped and made to look like a fool in this. I can’t imagine Connery’s Bond having this happen to him. Not blaming Brosnan, just the writers and production team. It may have been more interesting to see what Dalton could’ve done with this storyline.
-Elektra is interesting, but when you break it down she’s really just a poor little rich girl with daddy issues. Back then it may have been fresh, but these days she’d be on a reality series. M also comes off badly, falling for her Elektra’s story. They should’ve called her in front of a committee after this rather than wait until SF.
-Probably the biggest problem with TWINE is the tone is all over the place. It wants to step up and be a tougher, less formulaic film and still wants to throw in the Bond tropes. Barbara and MGW didn’t have the confidence to go all the way they would with CR a few years later and as a result, TWINE is a mess.
Without a doubt. Although, emphasis on the "mess" part of that phrase, given that melodrama can be powerful and effective in the right hands. TWINE is certainly soggier than DAD, and falls laughably short of its self-aggrandizing ambition on the dramatic front.
I trust we’re going to skip DAD as it’s totally unsalvageable?
I think you just made that part up.
I think you just made that part up.
[/quote]
Never knew about the tv show either and frankly I don’t think it matters as you could just see them as two clampers.
Generally speaking a good assessment @BT3366.
Ray Brown: The bespectacled wheel clamper soaked by Bond during the Thames boat chase. His cameo was a topical "revenge" gag for the public, as he had been the most prominent star of a BBC fly-on-the-wall series called "Clampers", where his over-zealous behavior, and apparent enjoyment of clamping illegally parked cars, had made him a figure of popular hatred. He and the other actor were told that they would only get "slightly wet".
Given I live in the U.S. and have no association with such a series is why I even mentioned it. I'm sure somebody has seen it.
I just saw it as two clampers getting hilariously soaked. Knew nothing of the show back then.
Re DAD if you got rid of Halle/Jinx (or at least we-wrote her entire character) then the film would be 60% improved.
I was 14 and admittedly never saw the programme (obviously back then I didn’t drive). But it was still a funny clip.
The idea was to take Bond back to being more Bond. TND had lots of machine guns and general violence. It was thought Bond needed to use his head more to escape situations then merely blowing his way out of them. They were attempting to humanize him and make the story more human and less technology driven. They made a big deal about Renard and his ability to not feel pain. They hid the Electra turn to heel really well.
I always view this movie has a wasted opportunity. I think they did the right change of pace from TND and were attempting to show a different side to Bond. I would recast Christmas with someone a little older and a better actress. Or maybe steal from Wild Things casting and cast Neve Campbell. I'd strengthen the Renard pain angle and I would make him the main villain. Make the kidnapping of M more difficult and suspenseful.
A shame the movie missed it's mark. I like that the producers tried a different tack. Would have been easy to do another TND and have a blow'em up picture.
.Definitely re-write some of Jinx's dialogue.
.Get rid of the majority of the slow motion and sped up shots. At times, they look cool, such as the intro shot of Iceland, but they look stupid for the most part.
.An idea I had when I was little. Replace Mr. Kil with Krebs from the MR novel. Have him attempt to torture Jinx with some type of high-tech blowtorch and make the fight between he and Bond really brutal.
.Get rid of that godforsaken ice dragster and tsunami sequence. Just start the car chase after Bond escapes the mine.
.During the finale, get rid of the robosuit and improve the CGI. I think it would have been cool if the moody color filter from the PTS came back here. It's the same location so it would make sense.
So I'd leave a lot of unpopular bits in the film but honestly the film would probably be dull without them.
I'd do the opposite. Make Elektra the main villain and Renard her henchman (although it's clever to make people think he's the main villain until her reveal). Marceau was clearly up to the task, but in 1999 Eon didn't have the courage of its convictions...yet.
It was a mistake to name her Elektra, because, duh.
In some ways, TWINE is the most frustrating Bond film because it is a fairly unique story within the franchise and had a lot of potential. It wasn't just another "take over the world with a satellite/poison/golden gun/drug network" kind of tale.
-The PTS is cracking, especially in the bank, but it drags; edit the boat sequence down a good deal and in particular edit the 'laffs.' (Cigar girl, by the way, is absolutely outstanding.)
-The Renard bullet thing feels hokey, but I suppose it's no more absurd than a giant with metal teeth or a chap who kills people with a bowler hat.
-The ski scene feels a bit flat in terms of cinematography, and a bit tacked-on, in terms of plot, to me.
-Well it's got to be said: Christmas Bloody Jones. I'm genuinely ambivalent here. Her character is necessary to the story. On the one hand she's clearly awful. On the other, you have to admire the sheer batshit insanity of the casting. But you can't have her and Goldie.
-Broz puts on some pretty egregious pain face during the torture chair scene.
-From the start there's supposed to be some sort of special relationship between Elektra (really?) and both Bond and M, but it just never really lands for me. I buy M's side of things more - whether that's because of writing or acting, I'm not sure, but I'd say ditch the whole thing and make her just another person.
-Some of the locations here are interesting and the 'near east' is a good idea, but the colour palette is at times a bit flat. Get outside, move around, show me some local colour.
-Ultimately there are quite a lot of moving parts here: the 'switched villain,' the M kidnapped subplot, the Q passes the torch subplot, Zhukovsky, Jones, Tanner and Robinson, the oil pipeline, the nuclear sub . . . it's trying to do some things that I admire, and I'm not sure it manages them all.
And now, for the things I wouldn't change:
-Once again, Coltrane is a gem.
-Cigar Girl is a model for the brooding, intense henchwoman. More like her please.
-The attempts at mixing up formula here are interesting and welcome, even if they don't work.
DAD, anyone?