Talking about being Politically Correct !

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  • 00Agent00Agent Any man who drinks Dom Perignon '52 can't be all bad.
    Posts: 5,185
    Bond has always been addressing sexism in one way or another, and continued to do so progressively by giving the women more power and equality.
    I don't think Bond 25 will do anything other than that, but i agree that the MeToo movement is so big that it definitly will have some sort of impact on the next movie.

    For me the most important part is that you don't change the character of Bond.
    He is a romantic sexist, conflicted in a way. You need a bit of both. But his mysoginy and douchyness has to show. I think the writers will only try to balance it out by showing more of his romantic side, like with Madeleine Swan, which unfortunately backfired in that particular case.
  • Posts: 4,617
    Or we are back to the Daylights type of Bond?

    Either the rein him in (dull) or show that he is conflicted with modern values (Goldeneye tried this). Either way, I cant see him having a shower as with SF. Amazing how quickly things change.
  • Posts: 19,339
    patb wrote: »
    Or we are back to the Daylights type of Bond?

    Either the rein him in (dull) or show that he is conflicted with modern values (Goldeneye tried this). Either way, I cant see him having a shower as with SF. Amazing how quickly things change.

    The GE way should work,especially with a more experienced Bond.

  • 00Agent00Agent Any man who drinks Dom Perignon '52 can't be all bad.
    edited March 2018 Posts: 5,185
    patb wrote: »
    Or we are back to the Daylights type of Bond?

    Either the rein him in (dull) or show that he is conflicted with modern values (Goldeneye tried this). Either way, I cant see him having a shower as with SF. Amazing how quickly things change.

    If that happens again, you might as well call it a day and end the franchise.

    Goldeneye was a good example of how you could do it properly.
    Openly calling him sexist, showing that it is 'not ok' socially, but keep him that way anyway, and show that he does not care. Like Craig himself said he is "stuck in his ways".

    In my opinion Bond should have never been a hero to look up to in the first place.
    Going all the way back to Fleming who never wrote him as a hero or role model.

  • Posts: 4,617
    I think it's fair to assume that M is of similar age and background. One single friendly line of rebuke from Moneypenny to the both of them (ie not specifically to Bond but to that generation) could be a way of pleasing the PC brigade and , if done ironically and still with an ellement of flirting, it may work. It could even be done as a metaphor.

    Bond enters Moneypennys office, there is a plate of cookies on her desk. Bond, without thinking, reaches over and goes to take one. Moneypenny slaps the back of his hand.

    Moneypenny "Keep your hands to yourself!"

    Bond "Where have I heard that before?"

    And that makes a nod to modern times and we move on.

  • 00Agent00Agent Any man who drinks Dom Perignon '52 can't be all bad.
    edited March 2018 Posts: 5,185
    patb wrote: »
    I think it's fair to assume that M is of similar age and background. One single friendly line of rebuke from Moneypenny to the both of them (ie not specifically to Bond but to that generation) could be a way of pleasing the PC brigade and , if done ironically and still with an ellement of flirting, it may work. It could even be done as a metaphor.

    Bond enters Moneypennys office, there is a plate of cookies on her desk. Bond, without thinking, reaches over and goes to take one. Moneypenny slaps the back of his hand.

    Moneypenny "Keep your hands to yourself!"

    Bond "Where have I heard that before?"

    And that makes a nod to modern times and we move on.

    I can see that playing out in my mind, Bond looking up at her suspicoulsy while saying that line.

    I like it.

  • Posts: 4,617
    Something like that could work as Bond fans know where Bond's hands have been since Dr No so ,in a way, its a tribute but, at the same time, it shows Moneypenny in control and rebuking Bond for his arrogant presumption so it would please the Meetoo brigade.
  • 00Agent00Agent Any man who drinks Dom Perignon '52 can't be all bad.
    edited March 2018 Posts: 5,185
    patb wrote: »
    Something like that could work as Bond fans know where Bond's hands have been since Dr No so ,in a way, its a tribute but, at the same time, it shows Moneypenny in control and rebuking Bond for his arrogant presumption so it would please the Meetoo brigade.

    I think so too. It's all about not overstepping someones boundaries.
    Having Bond in a situation where the woman says clearly No to him and he keeps off of her.
    They did that with Madeleine as well, who repeatedly told him to p*** off, until Hinx slapped all sense out of her :))
  • Posts: 4,617
    As a big tennis fan and a massive John Mc fan (bigger due to this story), this is a great example of where we are at the moment re gender equality and an environment of hypersensitivity.

    And, unlike David Byrne with his album, I respect and admire John Mc for refusing to apologise. Serena ranked around 700? "You cannot be serious!"








  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    patb wrote: »
    I think it's fair to assume that M is of similar age and background. One single friendly line of rebuke from Moneypenny to the both of them (ie not specifically to Bond but to that generation) could be a way of pleasing the PC brigade and , if done ironically and still with an ellement of flirting, it may work. It could even be done as a metaphor.

    Bond enters Moneypennys office, there is a plate of cookies on her desk. Bond, without thinking, reaches over and goes to take one. Moneypenny slaps the back of his hand.

    Moneypenny "Keep your hands to yourself!"

    Bond "Where have I heard that before?"

    And that makes a nod to modern times and we move on.

    I suppose I could live that. The GE stuff was rather irksome but didn't last long.

    But I fear we'll probably end up with a Bond girl equal and probably one who is a 00.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    cz2c24abhkgjjh0v3gk0vwzz.jpg

    This forced Victoria s Secret to apologize for fashion colonialism.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    cz2c24abhkgjjh0v3gk0vwzz.jpg

    This forced Victoria s Secret to apologize for fashion colonialism.

    It looks like Taylor Swift. Suits her.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,008
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/lauren-southern-far-right-canada-racist-calais-detain-uk-ban-enter-visa-a8254116.html

    But apparently over 400 British Isis Jihadis are let back in the country after fighting in Syria. The good old UK has got it's priorities well in order I see....
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Gordon Bennett! Bugger her views - I'd let her round me up and put me in a ghetto all night long.

    Straight in at number 2 on my fittest far right list:

    1. Marion Le Pen - Would even make Corbyn think twice.
    2. Lauren Southern - Never heard of her till now but definitely would.
    3. Alessandra Mussloini - Back in the day - not now.
    4. Eva Braun - Again back in the day.
    5. Sarah Palin - Reckon she was probably half decent when she was in her 20s. Just don't start piping up about creationism love.
    6. Marine Le Pen - Seen better days but French so would know what she was doing
    7. Katie Hopkins - Again when she was younger she might have been alright. And looks like she goes like a train.
    8. Mrs Thatcher - Can't argue with her leadership qualities but never a looker.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited March 2018 Posts: 18,281
    Margaret Thatcher as part of the Far Right?!

    I don't think so, mate!

    Judas Priest! You sound like Jeremy Corbyn! :(
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited March 2018 Posts: 9,117
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Margaret Thatcher as part of the Far Right?!

    I don't think so, mate!

    That's why she's bottom old son! I hope you don't think I am so shallow that I would compile a list that solely ranks women on mere shagability? That would be extremely distasteful in a post #metoo world and in the PC thread to boot.

    It's all about their views and Maggie just doesn't cut the mustard against some of these hardliners.

    I was tempted to put Elena Ceaușescu in there but as they were communist I guess she doesn't technically count, despite the atrocities.

    Also she's got a face like a motorway pile up.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Margaret Thatcher as part of the Far Right?!

    I don't think so, mate!

    That's why she's bottom old son! I hope you don't think I am so shallow that I would compile a list that solely ranks women on mere shagability? That would be extremely distasteful in a post #metoo world and in the PC thread to boot.

    It's all about their views and Maggie just doesn't cut the mustard against some of these hardliners.

    I was tempted to put Elena Ceaușescu in there but as they were communist I guess she doesn't technically count, despite the atrocities.

    Also she's got a face like a motorway pile up.

    Communists and fascists are two sides of the one coin I would say. They have more in common than either side would care to admit.
  • Posts: 15,124
    True. A lot of former Communist voters in France now vote Le Pen and I understand her economic ideas are sometimes far left.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    There is no more PC country than Sweden, although Germany and Britain are right behind them.

    Politically correct is a term from the Soviet Union, of course.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    There is no more PC country than Sweden, although Germany and Britain are right behind them.

    Politically correct is a term from the Soviet Union, of course.

    That's ironic as the Soviet Union was far from correct about politics! ;)
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    There is no more PC country than Sweden, although Germany and Britain are right behind them.

    Politically correct is a term from the Soviet Union, of course.

    That's ironic as the Soviet Union was far from correct about politics! ;)

    And neither are Sweden, Germany or Britain. So the irony gets multiplied.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
  • edited April 2018 Posts: 342
    How about this.... "...won praise for her response..." ffs

    https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/teenage-girl-fat-shamed-bakery-woman-response-viral-cupcakes-vega-blossom-indiana-facebook-a8289601.html

    I love this śtory because you can spin it so many ways

    1) Depressed woman Refused to be cowed by rude person trying to fat shame her

    2) Fat woman bought all the cakes from the bakery, denying everyone else in the queue from buying a cake, and justified herself claiming someone in the queue was rude

    3) Fat greedy woman buys all the cakes, denying everyone else in the queue, because she took offence at someone who may have had Asperger syndrome

    But should we as a society, with all the obesity issues, really celebrate fat people buying lots of cake?

  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    Troy wrote: »
    How about this.... "...won praise for her response..." ffs

    https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/teenage-girl-fat-shamed-bakery-woman-response-viral-cupcakes-vega-blossom-indiana-facebook-a8289601.html

    I love this śtory because you can spin it so many ways

    1) Depressed woman Refused to be cowed by rude person trying to fat shame her

    2) Fat woman bought all the cakes from the bakery, denying everyone else in the queue from buying a cake, and justified herself claiming someone in the queue was rude

    3) Fat greedy woman buys all the cakes, denying everyone else in the queue, because she took offence at someone who may have had Asperger syndrome

    But should we as a society, with all the obesity issues, really celebrate fat people buying lots of cake?

    It's that one bit of this PC nonsense that really irritates me after a while: being obese and having an unhealthy lifestyle is suddenly something that's promoted. Why? Are we really so obsessed with not hurting other's feelings that we applaud an unhealthy lifestyle for something that it isn't? Don't see the same thing happening with cigarettes or alcohol.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Creasy47 wrote: »

    They had better start making The Simpsons a lot more realistic and less carricatured.
  • edited April 2018 Posts: 12,837
    patb wrote: »
    Or we are back to the Daylights type of Bond?

    Either the rein him in (dull) or show that he is conflicted with modern values (Goldeneye tried this). Either way, I cant see him having a shower as with SF. Amazing how quickly things change.

    In a way, instead of neutering him, I think playing that side of him up could work. He's always really been an anti hero anyway. He kills people, smokes and drinks excessively, sleeps around and is generally pretty sexist.

    So I don't know how likely this is but instead of toning that down I wouldn't mind if they lowered the budget and went all out with it. Make him a guy who you're not necessarily meant to like or agree with but who gets things done. I think this could really work with an older Bond actor because he could be weary about the world he's living in. A Bond who grumbles when he's not allowed to smoke, who's shockingly inappropriate to the women he meets but they can't help being attracted to him anyway, who's high functioning alcoholism is seen as more of a vice than something classy and fancy. That kind of thing. Could lead to some funny, shock value kind of moments. They've touched on this a bit in some ways but don't think they've ever really gone all out with it.

    Whenever this comes up I keep thinking of Gene Hunt. Hilariously not PC but it works. That might also be because he has the modern Sam Tyler to bounce off though.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Whenever this comes up I keep thinking of Gene Hunt. Hilariously not PC but it works. That might also be because he has the modern Sam Tyler to bounce off though.
    Or it could be that he's simply right all the time.
  • Posts: 12,837
    Whenever this comes up I keep thinking of Gene Hunt. Hilariously not PC but it works. That might also be because he has the modern Sam Tyler to bounce off though.
    Or it could be that he's simply right all the time.

    He wasn't though. He was racist, sexist and homophobic. But they used the shock value of that for comedy and had Sam there to call him out so it worked.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Whenever this comes up I keep thinking of Gene Hunt. Hilariously not PC but it works. That might also be because he has the modern Sam Tyler to bounce off though.
    Or it could be that he's simply right all the time.

    He wasn't though. He was racist, sexist and homophobic. But they used the shock value of that for comedy and had Sam there to call him out so it worked.
    Got results though didn't he?
  • edited April 2018 Posts: 12,837
    Whenever this comes up I keep thinking of Gene Hunt. Hilariously not PC but it works. That might also be because he has the modern Sam Tyler to bounce off though.
    Or it could be that he's simply right all the time.

    He wasn't though. He was racist, sexist and homophobic. But they used the shock value of that for comedy and had Sam there to call him out so it worked.
    Got results though didn't he?

    With Sam's help. I really don't think that the point of the show was "weren't the 70s great before things were all PC". What was great about Life On Mars is that they brilliantly showed the ugly side of the 'good old days', through the cases and through Gene's own character flaws. But him and Sam sort of balanced eachother out and learnt from eachother.

    Which now that I write it out to be fair doesn't seem like it'd work for Bond. He doesn't need someone guiding him and balancing him out. He just needs to carry on being Bond without being interfered with. Still, it was ten years ago now but I think Gene Hunt shows that people can accept even the most over the top unPC characters as heroes. In fact I think the film could pick up some press as a defiant response to people who want Bond neutered if they revelled in his vices and dark side a bit, went full on anti-hero. They'd just have to lower the budget.
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