BOND POLLS 2017: The Big "SPECTRE" vs "QUANTUM OF SOLACE" Battle!

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Comments

  • Posts: 11,119
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Not that it could be any more obvious on my end, but I'd choose QoS. Figured I had already voted at some point.

    Done. Got your vote now ;-)
  • Posts: 19,339
    TBF I never actually voted,just mentioned I prefer QoS...so just in case : QoS for me .
  • Posts: 11,119
    Thanks @barryt007 . I am quite stunned how close the voting is going, since the more 'heavy-duty' posters on the MI6community in here completely destroy SP.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Thanks @barryt007 . I am quite stunned how close the voting is going, since the more 'heavy-duty' posters on the MI6community in here completely destroy SP.

    Its still #12 for me,and I really like it until it reaches the torture scene and London.
    QoS is #4 at the moment for some of its great scenes ,as in the plane chat with Beam,Greene,Felix and Elvis,and the Tosca scene etc..I do like Greene,i must admit,although not many do on here.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    edited August 2017 Posts: 4,423
    Add me to the Greene fan club me old Bazza. Creepy eyes, creepy dude.
  • edited August 2017 Posts: 11,119
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Thanks @barryt007 . I am quite stunned how close the voting is going, since the more 'heavy-duty' posters on the MI6community in here completely destroy SP.

    Its still #12 for me,and I really like it until it reaches the torture scene and London.
    QoS is #4 at the moment for some of its great scenes ,as in the plane chat with Beam,Greene,Felix and Elvis,and the Tosca scene etc..I do like Greene,i must admit,although not many do on here.

    But really? 4th?
    RC7 wrote: »
    My guess is that your man on the street would vote SP. Amongst Bond fans I spend time with, back in the real world, SP is favoured. On here SP is particularly and vociferously hated. Horses for courses.

    Exactly. And should be 'hardliner' Bond fans in the more popular topics in here not welcoming those...who voted this way?:
    NnAFU7O.jpg
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Thanks @barryt007 . I am quite stunned how close the voting is going, since the more 'heavy-duty' posters on the MI6community in here completely destroy SP.

    Its still #12 for me,and I really like it until it reaches the torture scene and London.
    QoS is #4 at the moment for some of its great scenes ,as in the plane chat with Beam,Greene,Felix and Elvis,and the Tosca scene etc..I do like Greene,i must admit,although not many do on here.

    But really? 4th?

    Quite. The Greg Beam scene on the plane right up there as one of the all time great scenes in Bond? Seriously?
  • Posts: 11,119
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Thanks @barryt007 . I am quite stunned how close the voting is going, since the more 'heavy-duty' posters on the MI6community in here completely destroy SP.

    Its still #12 for me,and I really like it until it reaches the torture scene and London.
    QoS is #4 at the moment for some of its great scenes ,as in the plane chat with Beam,Greene,Felix and Elvis,and the Tosca scene etc..I do like Greene,i must admit,although not many do on here.

    But really? 4th?

    Quite. The Greg Beam scene on the plane right up there as one of the all time great scenes in Bond? Seriously?

    Yeah ok, but.....

    DN?
    FRWL?
    GF?
    TB?
    OHMSS?
    FYEO?
    TLD?
    LTK?
    CR?
    SF?

    So 7 of those are ending...lower than QOS? Seriously :-).
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I think this whole process would move a lot faster if people didn't stop momentum after every post in favor of QoS with a "SERIOUSLY?" or "HOW?!" Some like myself enjoy films that don't get in their own way or eight themselves down with formula. The quiet character story of QoS lifts it immensely and is far more daring and interesting than about 90% of the films since 1969 for my money.

    Since @Gustav_Graves is going to bump this twice a day I guess it's a moot point, but the votes get lost after a while with all the commentary piling on and I think everyone who has wanted to vote has already anyway.
  • Posts: 11,119
    Since @Gustav_Graves is going to bump this twice a day I guess it's a moot point, but the votes get lost after a while with all the commentary piling on and I think everyone who has wanted to vote has already anyway.

    That's not a nice thing to say. This is still a discussion forum as well no? And at times I post a "Keep voting", so I remind people to vote :-).

    Pity you see my posts as "bumping", since it's also my honest opinion that I am not in favour of QOS, just like you are not in favour of SP. It's as simple as that. No harm done. In polls like these, where choices are very crisp and clear, we should in the end agree to disagree and see the fun of it as well :-).
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited August 2017 Posts: 23,883
    This poll has a pretty small sample size so it's just for our awareness. The RT 'audience' rating has a much larger sample size and is probably more reflective of general opinions. Both films are quite closely ranked there.
  • I don't see the point in this poll, but for your numbers: Quantum of Solace, a thousand times Quantum of Solace.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    That's not a nice thing to say. This is still a discussion forum as well no? And at times I post a "Keep voting", so I remind people to vote :-).

    I don't see it as a "not nice" thing to say, @Gustav_Graves, it's literally what happens daily and I observed it. It's fine to bump if the thread is pages from the main page, but that hasn't seemed to be the case. Every poll needs an ending point and it's important to note when people seem to be done voting or when progress is stagnant and things need wrapped up and I think we reached that a while back.

    We could keep the poll going to have every new member vote in the months ahead, but by that point Bond 25 will be out on blu-ray and we might as well add that to the poll and have everyone re-vote all over again. It's never going to be a satisfactory sample size.
    Pity you see my posts as "bumping", since it's also my honest opinion that I am not in favour of QOS, just like you are not in favour of SP. It's as simple as that. No harm done. In polls like these, where choices are very crisp and clear, we should in the end agree to disagree and see the fun of it as well :-).

    @Gustav_Graves maybe you haven't been around in the past two years, but I love SP and it's a hill I've died on since it came out. We've had discussions on the film countless times and thought you'd remember that, instead of randomly jumping to an assumption. Either way I don't disagree with what we're voting for (nor do I care at any event), but I do disagree with how things are run.

    The literary Bond voting thread took two years for any results to come out, and it makes no sense why an even simpler poll should be heading that way too. I just don't want to be sitting here in August 2019 with you still bumping this discussion and asking for votes from people who said their piece 24 months earlier.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,392
    Some like myself enjoy films that don't get in their own way or eight themselves down with formula.

    Well done. :)
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited August 2017 Posts: 28,694
    Some like myself enjoy films that don't get in their own way or eight themselves down with formula.

    Well done. :)

    What am I getting a gold star for this time? I'm running out of room on my refrigerator.

    *That should also be "weight down," not "eight down."
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited August 2017 Posts: 8,392
    Some like myself enjoy films that don't get in their own way or eight themselves down with formula.

    Well done. :)

    What am I getting a gold star for this time? I'm running out of room on my refrigerator.

    *That should also be "weight down," not "eight down."

    Just how you are able to enjoy those films, where the rest of us can't. That's a skill, you know? wish I could enjoy QoS.
  • MrBondMrBond Station S
    Posts: 2,044
    QoS is as good as it gets. I say it again, it is my favorite of them all.
    SP is not far back, comfortably residing in the top ten.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Some like myself enjoy films that don't get in their own way or eight themselves down with formula.

    Well done. :)

    What am I getting a gold star for this time? I'm running out of room on my refrigerator.

    *That should also be "weight down," not "eight down."

    Just how you are able to enjoy those films, where the rest of us can't. That's a skill, you know? wish I could enjoy QoS.

    @Mendes4Lyfe, you love DN, which is very much a stripped back Bond film (naturally with it being the first), so I'd say you fit into this camp too, at least partly. QoS and that film aren't that far apart, in that they don't rely on comfortable little gimmicks or traditions to earn the audience's respect. They just tell a story.

    That's why I sometimes lament the legacy of GF, where pop culture thinks that all Bond films are like those that I really don't like, that make the spy a sort of non-character in a bit of parody. The far more interesting and powerful Bond films to me have been those that've used Bond to tell interesting and human stories while also being stylish and cinematic in their own way. We see that in the stripped back detective stories of Dr. No and From Russia with Love, how that style blended with a blockbuster for Thunderball while still retaining a human aspect, and in On Her Majesty's with one of the most un-Bondian movies of them all that boldly went where none have ever gone again. Similar attempts were made after that, namely in the Dalton era, but never reached what once was. The Craig era have gotten there though, and in many ways the era is synonymous with doing something new with what is well-known.

    I love that our current Bond films have been able to tell stories of grief, loss, betrayal, ghosts of the past, old vs. new and the crumbling relationship of a father and daughter of all things all in one era of movies. I guess I appreciate those stories more because I'm a bigger fan of films than I am Bond films. I can accept and respect when elements of filmmaking enter into the Bond realm and the movies just focus on stories and the dimensional characters without the formula shoved down the throat. The Craig era has some of what you'd expect from Bond films, but it's those human stories that have always been the most compelling and refreshing thing for me. They aren't unlike Fleming's own books, where human stories in grounded stakes were able to be told despite the larger than life and fantastical or bizarre nature of some of the plot. Even though Moonraker is about a bomb plot to nuke London, for example, what you remember is Bond being left alone with his "cold heart" when the truth is revealed to him at the conclusion.

    The Craig era couldn't be everyone's cup of tea, but I have found it refreshing. So many want "old Bond" back, perhaps forgetting that how Bond started is much closer to the Craig films than not. What they really mean is they want films like those that were off-shoots of Goldfinger, which is fine, but I lament more interesting innovations in the series. We have enough Goldfingers in the series, not only because of how many times EON literally attempted to remake it with fresh paint, but also in how it has influenced a collection of comfortable films that don't feel at all bold or interesting in comparison to the risks of before and after them. The vast majority of the films in the series fit closer to the Goldfinger mold than not, and so one has to wonder when Bond is allowed to do something new, as was the goal with Casino Royale onward?

    From the response to Quantum of Solace I think we have seen that people don't want films that strip back things to tell stories, they want the Bond iconography every time and I think there's a better way to realize a balance than that. Basically they could make the films as Fleming made the books, giving room for interesting stories and elements of the bizarre or fantasy without parody weighing things down. I've had enough of jokey, carefree Bond, and it'll be sad if the series regresses back to the same old same old after Craig's era showed newer ways to get there.
  • Posts: 11,119
    That's not a nice thing to say. This is still a discussion forum as well no? And at times I post a "Keep voting", so I remind people to vote :-).

    I don't see it as a "not nice" thing to say, @Gustav_Graves, it's literally what happens daily and I observed it. It's fine to bump if the thread is pages from the main page, but that hasn't seemed to be the case. Every poll needs an ending point and it's important to note when people seem to be done voting or when progress is stagnant and things need wrapped up and I think we reached that a while back.

    We could keep the poll going to have every new member vote in the months ahead, but by that point Bond 25 will be out on blu-ray and we might as well add that to the poll and have everyone re-vote all over again. It's never going to be a satisfactory sample size.
    Pity you see my posts as "bumping", since it's also my honest opinion that I am not in favour of QOS, just like you are not in favour of SP. It's as simple as that. No harm done. In polls like these, where choices are very crisp and clear, we should in the end agree to disagree and see the fun of it as well :-).

    @Gustav_Graves maybe you haven't been around in the past two years, but I love SP and it's a hill I've died on since it came out. We've had discussions on the film countless times and thought you'd remember that, instead of randomly jumping to an assumption. Either way I don't disagree with what we're voting for (nor do I care at any event), but I do disagree with how things are run.

    The literary Bond voting thread took two years for any results to come out, and it makes no sense why an even simpler poll should be heading that way too. I just don't want to be sitting here in August 2019 with you still bumping this discussion and asking for votes from people who said their piece 24 months earlier.

    If you disagree with how I am running a poll, you could always have sent me a PM. Back with the "Best Bond Film Poll" I got in the end 120 people to vote. I worked my buts of getting that done. So this time, with this Literature Poll I decided to occasionally pup it up again. And even then people are not satisfied with it.

    This particular poll has only started a few weeks ago, has a much simpler rule, you can only vote for two films, and....... Aaawh well, never mind. I think I shouldn't try to satisfy everyone. Thanks for voting anyway :-).
  • Posts: 170
    Both are turds. However I go with SP because of Lea Seydoux. Nuff said.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,960
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Thanks @barryt007 . I am quite stunned how close the voting is going, since the more 'heavy-duty' posters on the MI6community in here completely destroy SP.

    Its still #12 for me,and I really like it until it reaches the torture scene and London.
    QoS is #4 at the moment for some of its great scenes ,as in the plane chat with Beam,Greene,Felix and Elvis,and the Tosca scene etc..I do like Greene,i must admit,although not many do on here.

    QoS is fourth for me, as well. Haven't done a ranking in a good while but it'd likely end up in that same spot if I did.
  • Creasy47 wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Thanks @barryt007 . I am quite stunned how close the voting is going, since the more 'heavy-duty' posters on the MI6community in here completely destroy SP.

    Its still #12 for me,and I really like it until it reaches the torture scene and London.
    QoS is #4 at the moment for some of its great scenes ,as in the plane chat with Beam,Greene,Felix and Elvis,and the Tosca scene etc..I do like Greene,i must admit,although not many do on here.

    QoS is fourth for me, as well. Haven't done a ranking in a good while but it'd likely end up in that same spot if I did.

    That makes three of us. Anyone care to make up a foursome?
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I cannot believe or quite understand this disagreement.

    I'm apparently in the disagreement and even I've lost the plot of it.
    That's not a nice thing to say. This is still a discussion forum as well no? And at times I post a "Keep voting", so I remind people to vote :-).

    I don't see it as a "not nice" thing to say, @Gustav_Graves, it's literally what happens daily and I observed it. It's fine to bump if the thread is pages from the main page, but that hasn't seemed to be the case. Every poll needs an ending point and it's important to note when people seem to be done voting or when progress is stagnant and things need wrapped up and I think we reached that a while back.

    We could keep the poll going to have every new member vote in the months ahead, but by that point Bond 25 will be out on blu-ray and we might as well add that to the poll and have everyone re-vote all over again. It's never going to be a satisfactory sample size.
    Pity you see my posts as "bumping", since it's also my honest opinion that I am not in favour of QOS, just like you are not in favour of SP. It's as simple as that. No harm done. In polls like these, where choices are very crisp and clear, we should in the end agree to disagree and see the fun of it as well :-).

    @Gustav_Graves maybe you haven't been around in the past two years, but I love SP and it's a hill I've died on since it came out. We've had discussions on the film countless times and thought you'd remember that, instead of randomly jumping to an assumption. Either way I don't disagree with what we're voting for (nor do I care at any event), but I do disagree with how things are run.

    The literary Bond voting thread took two years for any results to come out, and it makes no sense why an even simpler poll should be heading that way too. I just don't want to be sitting here in August 2019 with you still bumping this discussion and asking for votes from people who said their piece 24 months earlier.

    If you disagree with how I am running a poll, you could always have sent me a PM. Back with the "Best Bond Film Poll" I got in the end 120 people to vote. I worked my buts of getting that done. So this time, with this Literature Poll I decided to occasionally pup it up again. And even then people are not satisfied with it.

    This particular poll has only started a few weeks ago, has a much simpler rule, you can only vote for two films, and....... Aaawh well, never mind. I think I shouldn't try to satisfy everyone. Thanks for voting anyway :-).

    @Gustav_Graves, not trying to step on your toes here. Not only do I not care to act that way, this poll isn't anything worth getting upset about in any way, shape or form. I don't doubt that you work hard to do this, you're dealing with the shuffling and mad opinions of a whole community; it must be. That wasn't what I was referring to at all in any of my posts.

    I've just noticed in this poll that in the first two pages a vast majority of the community "regulars" that I think I have a pretty good handle on the names of had all voted and since then the thread has gone off topic into other discussions not even about QoS or SP and votes haven't been at all frequent or steady, with just a few coming in since from infrequent members. Feel free to end it at any point you want, and don't worry about little old me as I don't have a dog in it and I'm indifferent besides. Just don't expect more flooding of votes to come in, as I think the majority of folks who would vote have since this thing kicked off a month ago.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,108
    Having rewatched both of them, I must say it's still SP for me but it's the lesser of two evils. I'd pick 2/3rd of the franchise over either of them.
  • Posts: 12,462
    It's a tough call but I currently have SP one spot above QoS. I think both of them are decent Bond films that have a lot to enjoy, but also can be underwhelming in some areas. They are my #13 and #14 Bond films right now. I am prone to enjoy them more or like them a bit less on any given day. Meanwhile CR and SF are always guaranteed as two of my all-time favorites.
  • Posts: 19,339
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Thanks @barryt007 . I am quite stunned how close the voting is going, since the more 'heavy-duty' posters on the MI6community in here completely destroy SP.

    Its still #12 for me,and I really like it until it reaches the torture scene and London.
    QoS is #4 at the moment for some of its great scenes ,as in the plane chat with Beam,Greene,Felix and Elvis,and the Tosca scene etc..I do like Greene,i must admit,although not many do on here.

    But really? 4th?

    Yes...really.
  • Posts: 170
    Hard to see how anyone rates QOS with terrible editing & a script cobbled together featuring such classic lines 'I can't find the stationary. Can you help?'. Even the producers know it was crap which is why they erased Quantum out of existence.
  • Posts: 11,119
    There is no clear winner so far!! :-O
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited August 2017 Posts: 8,392
    Some like myself enjoy films that don't get in their own way or eight themselves down with formula.

    Well done. :)

    What am I getting a gold star for this time? I'm running out of room on my refrigerator.

    *That should also be "weight down," not "eight down."

    Just how you are able to enjoy those films, where the rest of us can't. That's a skill, you know? wish I could enjoy QoS.

    @Mendes4Lyfe, you love DN, which is very much a stripped back Bond film (naturally with it being the first), so I'd say you fit into this camp too, at least partly. QoS and that film aren't that far apart, in that they don't rely on comfortable little gimmicks or traditions to earn the audience's respect. They just tell a story.

    That's why I sometimes lament the legacy of GF, where pop culture thinks that all Bond films are like those that I really don't like, that make the spy a sort of non-character in a bit of parody. The far more interesting and powerful Bond films to me have been those that've used Bond to tell interesting and human stories while also being stylish and cinematic in their own way. We see that in the stripped back detective stories of Dr. No and From Russia with Love, how that style blended with a blockbuster for Thunderball while still retaining a human aspect, and in On Her Majesty's with one of the most un-Bondian movies of them all that boldly went where none have ever gone again. Similar attempts were made after that, namely in the Dalton era, but never reached what once was. The Craig era have gotten there though, and in many ways the era is synonymous with doing something new with what is well-known.

    I love that our current Bond films have been able to tell stories of grief, loss, betrayal, ghosts of the past, old vs. new and the crumbling relationship of a father and daughter of all things all in one era of movies. I guess I appreciate those stories more because I'm a bigger fan of films than I am Bond films. I can accept and respect when elements of filmmaking enter into the Bond realm and the movies just focus on stories and the dimensional characters without the formula shoved down the throat. The Craig era has some of what you'd expect from Bond films, but it's those human stories that have always been the most compelling and refreshing thing for me. They aren't unlike Fleming's own books, where human stories in grounded stakes were able to be told despite the larger than life and fantastical or bizarre nature of some of the plot. Even though Moonraker is about a bomb plot to nuke London, for example, what you remember is Bond being left alone with his "cold heart" when the truth is revealed to him at the conclusion.

    The Craig era couldn't be everyone's cup of tea, but I have found it refreshing. So many want "old Bond" back, perhaps forgetting that how Bond started is much closer to the Craig films than not. What they really mean is they want films like those that were off-shoots of Goldfinger, which is fine, but I lament more interesting innovations in the series. We have enough Goldfingers in the series, not only because of how many times EON literally attempted to remake it with fresh paint, but also in how it has influenced a collection of comfortable films that don't feel at all bold or interesting in comparison to the risks of before and after them. The vast majority of the films in the series fit closer to the Goldfinger mold than not, and so one has to wonder when Bond is allowed to do something new, as was the goal with Casino Royale onward?

    From the response to Quantum of Solace I think we have seen that people don't want films that strip back things to tell stories, they want the Bond iconography every time and I think there's a better way to realize a balance than that. Basically they could make the films as Fleming made the books, giving room for interesting stories and elements of the bizarre or fantasy without parody weighing things down. I've had enough of jokey, carefree Bond, and it'll be sad if the series regresses back to the same old same old after Craig's era showed newer ways to get there.
    @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 I see your point, but I don't see why GF is to blame? The film was just as innovative as the first two, no? It's like blaming the original Star Wars for all the Death Star clones that came in the subsequent films.

    Also, I think the Craig films operate on their own formula. Without that tease of the return of classic Bond at the end of each film, would they really have the same impact? Is it right to criticise the heritage of the franchise whilst praising a group of films which use said heritage to tease the audience like a dog with a bone. I mean, in order to eschew classic formula, it relies on the audience having a knowledge of the formula, no? So in a way, the Craig movies are just as dependant on the formula as the old films, because if those elements weren't familiar to the audience to begin with, it wouldn't have the same impact when they are eschewed.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited August 2017 Posts: 23,883
    @thelivingroyale, further to your point above, I think the Craig films may have made a mistake & crossed the line by poking fun at the franchise. When I first saw the Aston gadget, the couch & the watch scenes in SP, my mind immediately went back to the snarky comments by Q in SF at the museum:

    "We don't really go in for that anymore".

    Really? Well then what's going on here I thought? Rather hypocritical.

    It's a fine line between trying to be different (which I'm all for) and having a laugh at the expense of one's own colourful heritage and history, without the success of which the current film couldn't even be made.

    Along with the 'direct continuity' timeline, I believe this kind of thing only makes it more difficult to make a classic Bond film in the future imho. It's short sighted, self serving & ultimately boxes them in.
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