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Comments
Nope, it gets more criticism because it's full of flaws, while QoS has a bad editing but at least it's a good Bond movie.
Problem is Bond is saying it to Felix in GF
Bit late to the party, as we've discussed it above.
I just realized that while reading. I was just about to use the edit button.
Still, you're using your fantasy much too hard to make ends meet. Very often things just don't make sense. Period.
Actually I always saw it as a soft reference to LALD, the novel.
We were playfully trying to connect dots, not writing a dissertation on the logic of Dr. No for university examination. You take some things a bit too seriously.
This has nothing to do with the logic of Dr.No whatsoever.
The point I was making, which I assumed was clear, was that it wasn't an earnest discussion, but a light and carefree one. Yet you seem to treat it, and so many other discussions, as a quasi attack or affront to yourself in a weird way or as serious as a heart attack.
Sometimes fans just like to shoot the breeze about their favorite movies and wonder things about them. They don't ask folks to believe it too, or claim it's canon, it's just fun to wonder. It's not debate team, it's a Bond forum.
Thats where your wrong, try watching Quantum with an open mind, it grows on you. Spectre however gets more boring every time you watch it
I don't dislike either, I just defined them as 'lesser' which they are. I maintain neither will ever be regarded as a classic.
I think this is fair. Despite praising QOS as a work of genius being the current trend round here there's not the slightest chance either QOS or SP will trouble the holy trinity of FRWL, OHMSS and CR ten, twenty, fifty years down the line.
The best they can hope for is to settle somewhere slightly above mid table. The West Brom and Stoke of Bond films.
Its also a trend at the moment to give CR ludicrous props. I wish more would reengage their critical eye when it comes to analysis of that one.
Yes, but still......even to me QOS and SP won't make it to the bottom 5 either. For that both films are decent enough and are certainly better than some of their predecessors. I mean...
--> YOLT? Quite the bloated campy film that became the blueprint for Austin Powers. Almost nothing from the actual novel was used. Sean Connery looked more tired in that film than DAF and NSNA.
--> DAF? Blofeld in drag? One of the cheesiest diamonds-for-lasers-to-destroy-Earth plots. I mean, why could Connery not have ended on a high note like Hugh Jackman did with "Logan".
--> LALD? I think this one is fighting with both QOS and SP for a mid-table placing. Yet Hamilton's decision to blow up Kananga like a baloon? Really?
--> TMWTGG? Despite a great Fleming-esque hotel sequence, a threatening dinner sequence between Scaramanga and Bond, I can't help but feeling this film is too uneven in tone and style. Fleming-esque grittiness mixed with pure utter cheese.
--> MR? Fun, but come on......Bond in outer space is better than Bond in Bolivia or Bond in Morocco?
--> AVTAK? Ughhh
--> TND? Another Brosnan-pastiche. Too much pastiche of a distant past. Brosnan was a rather uneventful concoction of Connery, Moore and God knows who. Especially in this one.
--> DAD? Ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
So there you have it. 8 films that in my honest opinion are worse than QOS and/or SP. So it's also important to Judge these two film within the perspective of a very large franchise consisting of 24 official films.
Err yeah. Hence the term 'mid table'.
Have you re-evaluated on SP? Thought it was near the top for you and preferred to SF.
It wasn't near the top for me, but there was a point where I found it preferable to SF. It's SF I've re-evaluated, though, not SP. I always saw the positives in it, but for a long while the fan wankery really ticked me off. Now that I've made my peace with that aspect of it I can enjoy it for the unique entry it is. The main problem I have with SP is the decision making re. The narrative/characters. As a production I find it superior to QoS on most levels.
It really shouldn't have been such a good movie then (and much better than the source, even).
The only Bond film better than the book was Goldfinger.
Perhaps you could try to argue that in the literary voting thread?
That's one area I can't really fault SP; it has fabulous production values but then it should given they spent the GDP of a mid sized African country on it.
Superficially it's a very slick and polished product but it's just a shame the couldn't have diverted a few of those millions Sam set fire to in the desert into the pockets of a competent writer.
That's absolutely true. QOS to me feels like a low-budget Jason Bourne film.....without elaborate Ken Adam-esque sets. Perhaps not cinematography-wise, but production-wise(locations, Blofeld's lair, Austria, Hoffler Klinik, Rome, the PTS, SPECTRE-meeting) SP is my favourite Craig-entry. It's really a bit Craig's own "Thunderball" in many ways.
100% agreed
I loved it on first viewing but boy does it fall apart later
I've always found SP to be somewhat 'fake' looking (not just because of the filter, but because of the obvious CGI enhancements which I can make out in quite a few scenes including the PTS and Blofeld's lair). The film has the look of a generic Marvel blockbuster in many places to me. It doesn't feel 'real' and I actually think this was the effect they were going for (given the 'spectral' premise). What saves it imho is Hoyte's 'shot framing' which is wide angle in the 'old school' Bond way.
QoS on the other hand really pops in my blu ray player and everything just feels so authentic, 'on' location and very gritty and real like the old school Bond films. Apart from the frenetic editing it really has the look, atmosphere and feel of a classic Bond film imho.
In all honesty, I find this CGI-discussion really a bit over the top at times. I think it's because we know there's CGI in certain scenes that influences our judgement. Not so much the actual visibility. Well that's my idea.
With QOS however I can't help feeling watching a Bourne rip-off. Production-wise it's less luxury. I mean really? I truly hated all these different fonts to introduce people to new locations. I think M's office in QOS was too Star Trek, and from that it went to frikkin' graveyard looks in Haïti. It was not balanced.
SP tome felt more classic, perhaps even a bit Kubrick-ian with that classic-style SPECTRE board room...and even a more classic look to M's office.
Purely from my perspective, I could 'sense' the CGI in SP in many scenes and it took me right out of it. If you watch the Nolan interview posted a few pages back he comments on this infestation in modern films and indicates that it gives a different 'feeling'. I agree with him on this. It was obvious to me in quite a few spots, and moreover, the filter also added to the 'unreal' feeling. If that was what they were going for, then fine. As I've said many times, I was already 'out of' the film after the PTS due to the collapsing building and then all those little CGI people running around in Mexico. It was just so 'un-Bondian' for lack of another word. I was already in disbelief before the main film began. The office was previously showcased at the end of SF so it wasn't a big deal to me. Even C's CNS office looked completely 'fake' (I realize it's a fictional building, but couldn't they have filmed it somewhere else at a real location for pete's sake).
QoS just felt 'alive' from the opening car chase. Visceral, real, on location and atmospheric. I could almost 'smell' the air in Haiti (even if it wasn't filmed there). That to me is what old school Bond did so well. Yes, of course the editing was complete 'Bourne' but the rest of it was pure Bond to me. The Greene Planet party and the Austrian Opera were pure class.