BOND POLLS 2017: The Big "SPECTRE" vs "QUANTUM OF SOLACE" Battle!

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  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited August 2017 Posts: 23,883
    Or Colorado, USA. Great villa's and mansions there :-):
    20150611211415062637000000-o.jpg?2015-06-16
    Beautiful. This evokes the home at the end of North by Northwest (although far more traditional).
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,960
    @Mendes4Lyfe, anytime I see him pop up in a film or show, I expect that to be his fate. Always nice to have it not be the case.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    bondjames wrote: »
    It's in your opening preamble.

    Both films are basically ranked similarly by the general public. A mediocre and forgettable 64% (QoS) and 65% (SP) respectively on RT (with 'Audience' rating of 58%-QoS and 61%-SP respectively with much more representative sample sizes, although there might be a slight skew in favour of SP in that ranking because more members of the general public viewed the last film in comparison to QoS, and are also more likely to remember it since it's more recent).

    SP gets more criticism here because it's the latest film. That's always the case. It was that way 3 years ago with SF (there were countless threads on the film here at that time) and I imagine it was the same way 6+ years ago with QoS. Just because a film is debated and critiqued by members doesn't mean it's necessarily more 'disliked'. Just that it is the more current choice for discussion. More so in this case because it was a film that tied everything together.

    So all this poll has shown us is that both of Craig's lesser efforts are generally viewed as being equally poor, which is exactly as we could have surmised from the RT audience rating.

    Nope, it gets more criticism because it's full of flaws, while QoS has a bad editing but at least it's a good Bond movie.
  • Posts: 11,119
    Simplicity has its dangers....
  • Posts: 1,162
    bondjames wrote: »
    The good news should be that Bond #25 will already look much better in comparison to SP wouldn't you say ;-)?
    Most likely, as long as they don't remind people of it. If they must bring Craig back, they should go down the SF route and just forget the prior film completely imho (in fact, they should do that even if Craig is not back, and is one of the reasons I don't want him back).

    I still have a lot of hope for B25 to be a killer film, but news that Craig is returning has dampened my expectations somewhat. There are a lot of articles out there already commenting on 'grumpy' Craig returning etc. and I don't want that sort of nonsense polluting the anticipation for the next film.

    For me the SF-route is quite comparable to the GF-route. There were some minor references to the films that preceded SF and GF.


    With SF there was this drinking/casino scene between Severine and Bond. And to me it showed that Sam Mendes clearly looked at Campbell's CR.

    Bond to Severine in SF: "I know when a woman is afraid and pretending not to be."

    Bond to Vesper in CR: "I think something is driving you. And I think I'll never find out
    what that is.
    "

    Not to mention "Don't touch your ear!"-line.


    With GF it was obviously Bond's following remark to Felix in Miami: "They got a lot closer to you in Jamaica. What's on your mind? I'm on holiday."

    And that's obviously a tiny reference to DN.

    So taking this into account, I think you can have a few lines that aren't too obvious, but still make them a nice sport to look for.

    Since something like this obviously didn't happen in Dr.No it is not.

    Bond bumped shoulders with a lot of enemies in Jamaica and nearly died more than a couple of times (The Three Blind Mice twice, Dent, then Dr. No), that's all that quote is referring to.

    Problem is Bond is saying it to Felix in GF
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    bondjames wrote: »
    The good news should be that Bond #25 will already look much better in comparison to SP wouldn't you say ;-)?
    Most likely, as long as they don't remind people of it. If they must bring Craig back, they should go down the SF route and just forget the prior film completely imho (in fact, they should do that even if Craig is not back, and is one of the reasons I don't want him back).

    I still have a lot of hope for B25 to be a killer film, but news that Craig is returning has dampened my expectations somewhat. There are a lot of articles out there already commenting on 'grumpy' Craig returning etc. and I don't want that sort of nonsense polluting the anticipation for the next film.

    For me the SF-route is quite comparable to the GF-route. There were some minor references to the films that preceded SF and GF.


    With SF there was this drinking/casino scene between Severine and Bond. And to me it showed that Sam Mendes clearly looked at Campbell's CR.

    Bond to Severine in SF: "I know when a woman is afraid and pretending not to be."

    Bond to Vesper in CR: "I think something is driving you. And I think I'll never find out
    what that is.
    "

    Not to mention "Don't touch your ear!"-line.


    With GF it was obviously Bond's following remark to Felix in Miami: "They got a lot closer to you in Jamaica. What's on your mind? I'm on holiday."

    And that's obviously a tiny reference to DN.

    So taking this into account, I think you can have a few lines that aren't too obvious, but still make them a nice sport to look for.

    Since something like this obviously didn't happen in Dr.No it is not.

    Bond bumped shoulders with a lot of enemies in Jamaica and nearly died more than a couple of times (The Three Blind Mice twice, Dent, then Dr. No), that's all that quote is referring to.

    Problem is Bond is saying it to Felix in GF

    Bit late to the party, as we've discussed it above.
  • edited August 2017 Posts: 1,162
    bondjames wrote: »
    The good news should be that Bond #25 will already look much better in comparison to SP wouldn't you say ;-)?
    Most likely, as long as they don't remind people of it. If they must bring Craig back, they should go down the SF route and just forget the prior film completely imho (in fact, they should do that even if Craig is not back, and is one of the reasons I don't want him back).

    I still have a lot of hope for B25 to be a killer film, but news that Craig is returning has dampened my expectations somewhat. There are a lot of articles out there already commenting on 'grumpy' Craig returning etc. and I don't want that sort of nonsense polluting the anticipation for the next film.

    For me the SF-route is quite comparable to the GF-route. There were some minor references to the films that preceded SF and GF.


    With SF there was this drinking/casino scene between Severine and Bond. And to me it showed that Sam Mendes clearly looked at Campbell's CR.

    Bond to Severine in SF: "I know when a woman is afraid and pretending not to be."

    Bond to Vesper in CR: "I think something is driving you. And I think I'll never find out
    what that is.
    "

    Not to mention "Don't touch your ear!"-line.


    With GF it was obviously Bond's following remark to Felix in Miami: "They got a lot closer to you in Jamaica. What's on your mind? I'm on holiday."

    And that's obviously a tiny reference to DN.

    So taking this into account, I think you can have a few lines that aren't too obvious, but still make them a nice sport to look for.

    Since something like this obviously didn't happen in Dr.No it is not.

    Bond bumped shoulders with a lot of enemies in Jamaica and nearly died more than a couple of times (The Three Blind Mice twice, Dent, then Dr. No), that's all that quote is referring to.

    Problem is Bond is saying it to Felix in GF

    Bit late to the party, as we've discussed it above.

    I just realized that while reading. I was just about to use the edit button.
    Still, you're using your fantasy much too hard to make ends meet. Very often things just don't make sense. Period.
    Actually I always saw it as a soft reference to LALD, the novel.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    bondjames wrote: »
    The good news should be that Bond #25 will already look much better in comparison to SP wouldn't you say ;-)?
    Most likely, as long as they don't remind people of it. If they must bring Craig back, they should go down the SF route and just forget the prior film completely imho (in fact, they should do that even if Craig is not back, and is one of the reasons I don't want him back).

    I still have a lot of hope for B25 to be a killer film, but news that Craig is returning has dampened my expectations somewhat. There are a lot of articles out there already commenting on 'grumpy' Craig returning etc. and I don't want that sort of nonsense polluting the anticipation for the next film.

    For me the SF-route is quite comparable to the GF-route. There were some minor references to the films that preceded SF and GF.


    With SF there was this drinking/casino scene between Severine and Bond. And to me it showed that Sam Mendes clearly looked at Campbell's CR.

    Bond to Severine in SF: "I know when a woman is afraid and pretending not to be."

    Bond to Vesper in CR: "I think something is driving you. And I think I'll never find out
    what that is.
    "

    Not to mention "Don't touch your ear!"-line.


    With GF it was obviously Bond's following remark to Felix in Miami: "They got a lot closer to you in Jamaica. What's on your mind? I'm on holiday."

    And that's obviously a tiny reference to DN.

    So taking this into account, I think you can have a few lines that aren't too obvious, but still make them a nice sport to look for.

    Since something like this obviously didn't happen in Dr.No it is not.

    Bond bumped shoulders with a lot of enemies in Jamaica and nearly died more than a couple of times (The Three Blind Mice twice, Dent, then Dr. No), that's all that quote is referring to.

    Problem is Bond is saying it to Felix in GF

    Bit late to the party, as we've discussed it above.

    I just realized that while reading. I was just about to use the edit button.
    Still, you're using your fantasy much too hard to make ends meet. Very often things just don't make sense. Period.
    Actually I always saw it as a soft reference to LALD, the novel.

    We were playfully trying to connect dots, not writing a dissertation on the logic of Dr. No for university examination. You take some things a bit too seriously.
  • Posts: 1,162
    bondjames wrote: »
    The good news should be that Bond #25 will already look much better in comparison to SP wouldn't you say ;-)?
    Most likely, as long as they don't remind people of it. If they must bring Craig back, they should go down the SF route and just forget the prior film completely imho (in fact, they should do that even if Craig is not back, and is one of the reasons I don't want him back).

    I still have a lot of hope for B25 to be a killer film, but news that Craig is returning has dampened my expectations somewhat. There are a lot of articles out there already commenting on 'grumpy' Craig returning etc. and I don't want that sort of nonsense polluting the anticipation for the next film.

    For me the SF-route is quite comparable to the GF-route. There were some minor references to the films that preceded SF and GF.


    With SF there was this drinking/casino scene between Severine and Bond. And to me it showed that Sam Mendes clearly looked at Campbell's CR.

    Bond to Severine in SF: "I know when a woman is afraid and pretending not to be."

    Bond to Vesper in CR: "I think something is driving you. And I think I'll never find out
    what that is.
    "

    Not to mention "Don't touch your ear!"-line.


    With GF it was obviously Bond's following remark to Felix in Miami: "They got a lot closer to you in Jamaica. What's on your mind? I'm on holiday."

    And that's obviously a tiny reference to DN.

    So taking this into account, I think you can have a few lines that aren't too obvious, but still make them a nice sport to look for.

    Since something like this obviously didn't happen in Dr.No it is not.

    Bond bumped shoulders with a lot of enemies in Jamaica and nearly died more than a couple of times (The Three Blind Mice twice, Dent, then Dr. No), that's all that quote is referring to.

    Problem is Bond is saying it to Felix in GF

    Bit late to the party, as we've discussed it above.

    I just realized that while reading. I was just about to use the edit button.
    Still, you're using your fantasy much too hard to make ends meet. Very often things just don't make sense. Period.
    Actually I always saw it as a soft reference to LALD, the novel.

    We were playfully trying to connect dots, not writing a dissertation on the logic of Dr. No for university examination. You take some things a bit too seriously.

    This has nothing to do with the logic of Dr.No whatsoever.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    bondjames wrote: »
    The good news should be that Bond #25 will already look much better in comparison to SP wouldn't you say ;-)?
    Most likely, as long as they don't remind people of it. If they must bring Craig back, they should go down the SF route and just forget the prior film completely imho (in fact, they should do that even if Craig is not back, and is one of the reasons I don't want him back).

    I still have a lot of hope for B25 to be a killer film, but news that Craig is returning has dampened my expectations somewhat. There are a lot of articles out there already commenting on 'grumpy' Craig returning etc. and I don't want that sort of nonsense polluting the anticipation for the next film.

    For me the SF-route is quite comparable to the GF-route. There were some minor references to the films that preceded SF and GF.


    With SF there was this drinking/casino scene between Severine and Bond. And to me it showed that Sam Mendes clearly looked at Campbell's CR.

    Bond to Severine in SF: "I know when a woman is afraid and pretending not to be."

    Bond to Vesper in CR: "I think something is driving you. And I think I'll never find out
    what that is.
    "

    Not to mention "Don't touch your ear!"-line.


    With GF it was obviously Bond's following remark to Felix in Miami: "They got a lot closer to you in Jamaica. What's on your mind? I'm on holiday."

    And that's obviously a tiny reference to DN.

    So taking this into account, I think you can have a few lines that aren't too obvious, but still make them a nice sport to look for.

    Since something like this obviously didn't happen in Dr.No it is not.

    Bond bumped shoulders with a lot of enemies in Jamaica and nearly died more than a couple of times (The Three Blind Mice twice, Dent, then Dr. No), that's all that quote is referring to.

    Problem is Bond is saying it to Felix in GF

    Bit late to the party, as we've discussed it above.

    I just realized that while reading. I was just about to use the edit button.
    Still, you're using your fantasy much too hard to make ends meet. Very often things just don't make sense. Period.
    Actually I always saw it as a soft reference to LALD, the novel.

    We were playfully trying to connect dots, not writing a dissertation on the logic of Dr. No for university examination. You take some things a bit too seriously.

    This has nothing to do with the logic of Dr.No whatsoever.

    The point I was making, which I assumed was clear, was that it wasn't an earnest discussion, but a light and carefree one. Yet you seem to treat it, and so many other discussions, as a quasi attack or affront to yourself in a weird way or as serious as a heart attack.

    Sometimes fans just like to shoot the breeze about their favorite movies and wonder things about them. They don't ask folks to believe it too, or claim it's canon, it's just fun to wonder. It's not debate team, it's a Bond forum.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    I'm pretty sure everyone who wanted to vote has voted. While we are great in numbers, Only a fraction of us use this place on a day to day basis. ;)
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,047
    Quantum of Solace
  • RC7RC7
    edited August 2017 Posts: 10,512
    They're both lesser films than their immediate predecessors, the first massively so. It doesn't surprise me that it's pretty much 50/50 whoever you ask. Neither will ever be regarded as a classic.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    edited August 2017 Posts: 2,730
    RC7 wrote: »
    They're both lesser films than their immediate predecessors, the first massively so. It doesn't surprise me that it's pretty much 50/50 whoever you ask. Neither will ever be regarded as a classic.

    Thats where your wrong, try watching Quantum with an open mind, it grows on you. Spectre however gets more boring every time you watch it
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    RC7 wrote: »
    They're both lesser films than their immediate predecessors, the first massively so. It doesn't surprise me that it's pretty much 50/50 whoever you ask. Neither will ever be regarded as a classic.

    Thats where your wrong, try watching Quantum with an open mind, it grows on you. Spectre however gets more boring every time you watch it

    I don't dislike either, I just defined them as 'lesser' which they are. I maintain neither will ever be regarded as a classic.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    RC7 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    They're both lesser films than their immediate predecessors, the first massively so. It doesn't surprise me that it's pretty much 50/50 whoever you ask. Neither will ever be regarded as a classic.

    Thats where your wrong, try watching Quantum with an open mind, it grows on you. Spectre however gets more boring every time you watch it

    I don't dislike either, I just defined them as 'lesser' which they are. I maintain neither will ever be regarded as a classic.

    I think this is fair. Despite praising QOS as a work of genius being the current trend round here there's not the slightest chance either QOS or SP will trouble the holy trinity of FRWL, OHMSS and CR ten, twenty, fifty years down the line.

    The best they can hope for is to settle somewhere slightly above mid table. The West Brom and Stoke of Bond films.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,392
    RC7 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    They're both lesser films than their immediate predecessors, the first massively so. It doesn't surprise me that it's pretty much 50/50 whoever you ask. Neither will ever be regarded as a classic.

    Thats where your wrong, try watching Quantum with an open mind, it grows on you. Spectre however gets more boring every time you watch it

    I don't dislike either, I just defined them as 'lesser' which they are. I maintain neither will ever be regarded as a classic.

    I think this is fair. Despite praising QOS as a work of genius being the current trend round here there's not the slightest chance either QOS or SP will trouble the holy trinity of FRWL, OHMSS and CR ten, twenty, fifty years down the line.

    The best they can hope for is to settle somewhere slightly above mid table. The West Brom and Stoke of Bond films.

    Its also a trend at the moment to give CR ludicrous props. I wish more would reengage their critical eye when it comes to analysis of that one.
  • Posts: 11,119
    RC7 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    They're both lesser films than their immediate predecessors, the first massively so. It doesn't surprise me that it's pretty much 50/50 whoever you ask. Neither will ever be regarded as a classic.

    Thats where your wrong, try watching Quantum with an open mind, it grows on you. Spectre however gets more boring every time you watch it

    I don't dislike either, I just defined them as 'lesser' which they are. I maintain neither will ever be regarded as a classic.

    I think this is fair. Despite praising QOS as a work of genius being the current trend round here there's not the slightest chance either QOS or SP will trouble the holy trinity of FRWL, OHMSS and CR ten, twenty, fifty years down the line.

    The best they can hope for is to settle somewhere slightly above mid table. The West Brom and Stoke of Bond films.

    Yes, but still......even to me QOS and SP won't make it to the bottom 5 either. For that both films are decent enough and are certainly better than some of their predecessors. I mean...

    --> YOLT? Quite the bloated campy film that became the blueprint for Austin Powers. Almost nothing from the actual novel was used. Sean Connery looked more tired in that film than DAF and NSNA.

    --> DAF? Blofeld in drag? One of the cheesiest diamonds-for-lasers-to-destroy-Earth plots. I mean, why could Connery not have ended on a high note like Hugh Jackman did with "Logan".

    --> LALD? I think this one is fighting with both QOS and SP for a mid-table placing. Yet Hamilton's decision to blow up Kananga like a baloon? Really?

    --> TMWTGG? Despite a great Fleming-esque hotel sequence, a threatening dinner sequence between Scaramanga and Bond, I can't help but feeling this film is too uneven in tone and style. Fleming-esque grittiness mixed with pure utter cheese.

    --> MR? Fun, but come on......Bond in outer space is better than Bond in Bolivia or Bond in Morocco?

    --> AVTAK? Ughhh

    --> TND? Another Brosnan-pastiche. Too much pastiche of a distant past. Brosnan was a rather uneventful concoction of Connery, Moore and God knows who. Especially in this one.

    --> DAD? Ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

    So there you have it. 8 films that in my honest opinion are worse than QOS and/or SP. So it's also important to Judge these two film within the perspective of a very large franchise consisting of 24 official films.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    RC7 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    They're both lesser films than their immediate predecessors, the first massively so. It doesn't surprise me that it's pretty much 50/50 whoever you ask. Neither will ever be regarded as a classic.

    Thats where your wrong, try watching Quantum with an open mind, it grows on you. Spectre however gets more boring every time you watch it

    I don't dislike either, I just defined them as 'lesser' which they are. I maintain neither will ever be regarded as a classic.

    I think this is fair. Despite praising QOS as a work of genius being the current trend round here there's not the slightest chance either QOS or SP will trouble the holy trinity of FRWL, OHMSS and CR ten, twenty, fifty years down the line.

    The best they can hope for is to settle somewhere slightly above mid table. The West Brom and Stoke of Bond films.

    Yes, but still......even to me QOS and SP won't make it to the bottom 5 either. For that both films are decent enough and are certainly better than some of their predecessors. I mean...

    --> YOLT? Quite the bloated campy film that became the blueprint for Austin Powers. Almost nothing from the actual novel was used. Sean Connery looked more tired in that film than DAF and NSNA.

    --> DAF? Blofeld in drag? One of the cheesiest diamonds-for-lasers-to-destroy-Earth plots. I mean, why could Connery not have ended on a high note like Hugh Jackman did with "Logan".

    --> LALD? I think this one is fighting with both QOS and SP for a mid-table placing. Yet Hamilton's decision to blow up Kananga like a baloon? Really?

    --> TMWTGG? Despite a great Fleming-esque hotel sequence, a threatening dinner sequence between Scaramanga and Bond, I can't help but feeling this film is too uneven in tone and style. Fleming-esque grittiness mixed with pure utter cheese.

    --> MR? Fun, but come on......Bond in outer space is better than Bond in Bolivia or Bond in Morocco?

    --> AVTAK? Ughhh

    --> TND? Another Brosnan-pastiche. Too much pastiche of a distant past. Brosnan was a rather uneventful concoction of Connery, Moore and God knows who. Especially in this one.

    --> DAD? Ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

    So there you have it. 8 films that in my honest opinion are worse than QOS and/or SP. So it's also important to Judge these two film within the perspective of a very large franchise consisting of 24 official films.

    Err yeah. Hence the term 'mid table'.
  • edited August 2017 Posts: 170
    RC7 wrote: »
    They're both lesser films than their immediate predecessors, the first massively so. It doesn't surprise me that it's pretty much 50/50 whoever you ask. Neither will ever be regarded as a classic.

    Have you re-evaluated on SP? Thought it was near the top for you and preferred to SF.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    The_Donald wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    They're both lesser films than their immediate predecessors, the first massively so. It doesn't surprise me that it's pretty much 50/50 whoever you ask. Neither will ever be regarded as a classic.

    Have you re-evaluated on SP? Thought it was near the top for you and preferred to SF.

    It wasn't near the top for me, but there was a point where I found it preferable to SF. It's SF I've re-evaluated, though, not SP. I always saw the positives in it, but for a long while the fan wankery really ticked me off. Now that I've made my peace with that aspect of it I can enjoy it for the unique entry it is. The main problem I have with SP is the decision making re. The narrative/characters. As a production I find it superior to QoS on most levels.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    RC7 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    They're both lesser films than their immediate predecessors, the first massively so. It doesn't surprise me that it's pretty much 50/50 whoever you ask. Neither will ever be regarded as a classic.

    Thats where your wrong, try watching Quantum with an open mind, it grows on you. Spectre however gets more boring every time you watch it

    I don't dislike either, I just defined them as 'lesser' which they are. I maintain neither will ever be regarded as a classic.

    I think this is fair. Despite praising QOS as a work of genius being the current trend round here there's not the slightest chance either QOS or SP will trouble the holy trinity of FRWL, OHMSS and CR ten, twenty, fifty years down the line.

    The best they can hope for is to settle somewhere slightly above mid table. The West Brom and Stoke of Bond films.

    Its also a trend at the moment to give CR ludicrous props. I wish more would reengage their critical eye when it comes to analysis of that one.

    It really shouldn't have been such a good movie then (and much better than the source, even).
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,392
    RC7 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    They're both lesser films than their immediate predecessors, the first massively so. It doesn't surprise me that it's pretty much 50/50 whoever you ask. Neither will ever be regarded as a classic.

    Thats where your wrong, try watching Quantum with an open mind, it grows on you. Spectre however gets more boring every time you watch it

    I don't dislike either, I just defined them as 'lesser' which they are. I maintain neither will ever be regarded as a classic.

    I think this is fair. Despite praising QOS as a work of genius being the current trend round here there's not the slightest chance either QOS or SP will trouble the holy trinity of FRWL, OHMSS and CR ten, twenty, fifty years down the line.

    The best they can hope for is to settle somewhere slightly above mid table. The West Brom and Stoke of Bond films.

    Its also a trend at the moment to give CR ludicrous props. I wish more would reengage their critical eye when it comes to analysis of that one.

    It really shouldn't have been such a good movie then (and much better than the source, even).

    The only Bond film better than the book was Goldfinger.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    RC7 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    They're both lesser films than their immediate predecessors, the first massively so. It doesn't surprise me that it's pretty much 50/50 whoever you ask. Neither will ever be regarded as a classic.

    Thats where your wrong, try watching Quantum with an open mind, it grows on you. Spectre however gets more boring every time you watch it

    I don't dislike either, I just defined them as 'lesser' which they are. I maintain neither will ever be regarded as a classic.

    I think this is fair. Despite praising QOS as a work of genius being the current trend round here there's not the slightest chance either QOS or SP will trouble the holy trinity of FRWL, OHMSS and CR ten, twenty, fifty years down the line.

    The best they can hope for is to settle somewhere slightly above mid table. The West Brom and Stoke of Bond films.

    Its also a trend at the moment to give CR ludicrous props. I wish more would reengage their critical eye when it comes to analysis of that one.

    It really shouldn't have been such a good movie then (and much better than the source, even).

    The only Bond film better than the book was Goldfinger.

    Perhaps you could try to argue that in the literary voting thread?
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    RC7 wrote: »
    The_Donald wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    They're both lesser films than their immediate predecessors, the first massively so. It doesn't surprise me that it's pretty much 50/50 whoever you ask. Neither will ever be regarded as a classic.

    Have you re-evaluated on SP? Thought it was near the top for you and preferred to SF.

    It wasn't near the top for me, but there was a point where I found it preferable to SF. It's SF I've re-evaluated, though, not SP. I always saw the positives in it, but for a long while the fan wankery really ticked me off. Now that I've made my peace with that aspect of it I can enjoy it for the unique entry it is. The main problem I have with SP is the decision making re. The narrative/characters. As a production I find it superior to QoS on most levels.

    That's one area I can't really fault SP; it has fabulous production values but then it should given they spent the GDP of a mid sized African country on it.

    Superficially it's a very slick and polished product but it's just a shame the couldn't have diverted a few of those millions Sam set fire to in the desert into the pockets of a competent writer.
  • edited August 2017 Posts: 11,119
    RC7 wrote: »
    As a production I find it superior to QoS on most levels.

    That's absolutely true. QOS to me feels like a low-budget Jason Bourne film.....without elaborate Ken Adam-esque sets. Perhaps not cinematography-wise, but production-wise(locations, Blofeld's lair, Austria, Hoffler Klinik, Rome, the PTS, SPECTRE-meeting) SP is my favourite Craig-entry. It's really a bit Craig's own "Thunderball" in many ways.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    RC7 wrote: »
    The_Donald wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    They're both lesser films than their immediate predecessors, the first massively so. It doesn't surprise me that it's pretty much 50/50 whoever you ask. Neither will ever be regarded as a classic.

    Have you re-evaluated on SP? Thought it was near the top for you and preferred to SF.

    It wasn't near the top for me, but there was a point where I found it preferable to SF. It's SF I've re-evaluated, though, not SP. I always saw the positives in it, but for a long while the fan wankery really ticked me off. Now that I've made my peace with that aspect of it I can enjoy it for the unique entry it is. The main problem I have with SP is the decision making re. The narrative/characters. As a production I find it superior to QoS on most levels.

    That's one area I can't really fault SP; it has fabulous production values but then it should given they spent the GDP of a mid sized African country on it.

    Superficially it's a very slick and polished product but it's just a shame the couldn't have diverted a few of those millions Sam set fire to in the desert into the pockets of a competent writer.

    100% agreed
    I loved it on first viewing but boy does it fall apart later
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited August 2017 Posts: 23,883
    Could someone please explain what they mean by production values? Are we talking about money on the screen?

    I've always found SP to be somewhat 'fake' looking (not just because of the filter, but because of the obvious CGI enhancements which I can make out in quite a few scenes including the PTS and Blofeld's lair). The film has the look of a generic Marvel blockbuster in many places to me. It doesn't feel 'real' and I actually think this was the effect they were going for (given the 'spectral' premise). What saves it imho is Hoyte's 'shot framing' which is wide angle in the 'old school' Bond way.

    QoS on the other hand really pops in my blu ray player and everything just feels so authentic, 'on' location and very gritty and real like the old school Bond films. Apart from the frenetic editing it really has the look, atmosphere and feel of a classic Bond film imho.
  • Posts: 11,119
    bondjames wrote: »
    Could someone please explain what they mean by production values? Are we talking about money on the screen?

    I've have always found SP to be somewhat 'fake' looking (not just because of the filter, but because of the obvious CGI enhancements which I can make out in quite a few scenes including the PTS and Blofeld's lair). The film has the look of a generic Marvel blockbuster in many places to me. It doesn't feel 'real' and I actually think this was the effect they were going for (given the 'spectral' premise). What saves it imho is Hoyte's 'shot framing' which is wide angle in the 'old school' Bond way.

    QoS on the other hand really pops in my blu ray player and everything just feels so authentic, 'on' location and very gritty and real like the old school Bond films. Apart from the frenetic editing it really has the look of a classic Bond film imho.

    In all honesty, I find this CGI-discussion really a bit over the top at times. I think it's because we know there's CGI in certain scenes that influences our judgement. Not so much the actual visibility. Well that's my idea.

    With QOS however I can't help feeling watching a Bourne rip-off. Production-wise it's less luxury. I mean really? I truly hated all these different fonts to introduce people to new locations. I think M's office in QOS was too Star Trek, and from that it went to frikkin' graveyard looks in Haïti. It was not balanced.

    SP tome felt more classic, perhaps even a bit Kubrick-ian with that classic-style SPECTRE board room...and even a more classic look to M's office.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited August 2017 Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    Could someone please explain what they mean by production values? Are we talking about money on the screen?

    I've have always found SP to be somewhat 'fake' looking (not just because of the filter, but because of the obvious CGI enhancements which I can make out in quite a few scenes including the PTS and Blofeld's lair). The film has the look of a generic Marvel blockbuster in many places to me. It doesn't feel 'real' and I actually think this was the effect they were going for (given the 'spectral' premise). What saves it imho is Hoyte's 'shot framing' which is wide angle in the 'old school' Bond way.

    QoS on the other hand really pops in my blu ray player and everything just feels so authentic, 'on' location and very gritty and real like the old school Bond films. Apart from the frenetic editing it really has the look of a classic Bond film imho.

    In all honesty, I find this CGI-discussion really a bit over the top at times. I think it's because we know there's CGI in certain scenes that influences our judgement. Not so much the actual visibility. Well that's my idea.

    With QOS however I can't help feeling watching a Bourne rip-off. Production-wise it's less luxury. I mean really? I truly hated all these different fonts to introduce people to new locations. I think M's office in QOS was too Star Trek, and from that it went to frikkin' graveyard looks in Haïti. It was not balanced.

    SP tome felt more classic, perhaps even a bit Kubrick-ian with that classic-style SPECTRE board room...and even a more classic look to M's office.
    Ok, I still don't understand though.

    Purely from my perspective, I could 'sense' the CGI in SP in many scenes and it took me right out of it. If you watch the Nolan interview posted a few pages back he comments on this infestation in modern films and indicates that it gives a different 'feeling'. I agree with him on this. It was obvious to me in quite a few spots, and moreover, the filter also added to the 'unreal' feeling. If that was what they were going for, then fine. As I've said many times, I was already 'out of' the film after the PTS due to the collapsing building and then all those little CGI people running around in Mexico. It was just so 'un-Bondian' for lack of another word. I was already in disbelief before the main film began. The office was previously showcased at the end of SF so it wasn't a big deal to me. Even C's CNS office looked completely 'fake' (I realize it's a fictional building, but couldn't they have filmed it somewhere else at a real location for pete's sake).

    QoS just felt 'alive' from the opening car chase. Visceral, real, on location and atmospheric. I could almost 'smell' the air in Haiti (even if it wasn't filmed there). That to me is what old school Bond did so well. Yes, of course the editing was complete 'Bourne' but the rest of it was pure Bond to me. The Greene Planet party and the Austrian Opera were pure class.
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