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That Bond as a "role model" should be kept "clean" is something I strongly disagree with. For starters, though most of us have gotten to know Bond during our childhood, he was never intended as a role model for kids. Adults, hopefully, can maintain a more nuanced vision on what constitutes a "good" man. Besides, Bond shoots people and we never seem to care. Twenty-four films later, and many of us still demand that EON shortcut the recent PC trends in favour of a ruthless, almost aggressively masculine, drinking and even smoking Bond. In other words, a lot of fans care more about keeping the original Bond intact, than cosmetically applying restrictions in order to keep the easily offended calm.
I'm never in favour of retro-actively tempering with the contents of a book or a movie. Every film, every book, every painting or sculpture is a product of its time and should be viewed as such. Especially in the case of Bond, what defines him is what some might want to at least partially change, and that is unacceptable. Now, if vast audiences would stay away from the next Bond film, crying out in anger that this man threatens the purity of our souls, at least the films might, for survival's sake, try to steer a slightly different course. So far though, it doesn't appear like there's any such demand made. Either way, I'm glad you brought it up, @chrisisall!
I think that Bond as we've known him may only get more respected and adored, as the PC culture and ultra-sensitivity people have about everything has gotten folks so tight-lipped and closeted that they're afraid to move a step or make a peep for fear of their crucifixion by the mob. Then we see a man like Bond who is bold and carefree with his "I don't give a damns" as he takes life by the balls and suddenly...there's hope again. I hope that Bond will now more than ever be that thing to aspire to be: live life to the full and don't let anyone nanny you or restrict your desires. Ironically, the "bad boy" without limits is now our biggest source of hope and fantasy in a very suffocating and puritan climate.
Let us all band together to keep our sanity and live to Bond's creeds. Christmas is coming and with it even more snowflakes than we've got already. Batten down the hatches and prepare yourselves to say "Ho! Ho! Ho!" in a suggestive and un-PC fashion.
I think pre emptively bitching about something that won't even happened is taking the whole "PC gone mad" thing to another level, even by this forums standard. And honestly people complaining about PC does my head in a lot more than the instances of genuine pandering/over sensitivity. I can't read it and not picture a middle aged David Brent type, fuming that he can't use some of his "hilarious" naff 70s sitcom style jokes or cringily flirt with a disgusted younger woman at work anymore.
Amen.
I haven't read a lot of "preemptive bitching" here to be honest. Most people have answered a simple question which, granted, is hypothetical but not absurdly unrealistic. With an upcoming documentary about how the character of Apu in The Simpsons poses an insufferable example of hidden racial slur in entertainment, it would be a trifle naïve to shut one’s eyes for the ever increasing censorship we must all endure. One of the TinTin books was removed from publication after more than 80 years because of a few allegedly racist panels, so retro-active ‘corrections’ are indeed being made. I’m not saying they will do that to Bond, but like @bondjames said, it wouldn’t surprise me either that some of the edges are taken off Bond, as some already have.
Still, even if we’re consuming a lot of cerebral energy for a discussion that may never be completely relevant, I find it very interesting to read people’s opinion in the matter and to see where the pendulum swings as it were. I’m glad I have read your thoughts too, @thelivingroyale; they took me by surprise but were useful nonetheless. You certainly have a point; we shouldn’t invent conspiracies and evils where there are none, only to get worked up over them with no good cause. But in truth, the general tone of this thread has so far been very decent and by no means overtaken by some ludicrous hysteria.
Having said that, I can see a time when they are modified for streaming broadcasts (just like how ITV and other tv channels edit films when they show them today at child friendly hours of the day). I can also see a day when there are two edits of the film available for sale (the 'original uncut' version and a more sanitized version).
In terms of the future, I think James Bond is reasonably unique, because he has always been seen as somewhat of a 'pig' in the films. I believe that was the case even in the 60's and 70's. An anachronism almost. I think both Connery and Moore were able to skirt that with their light, almost jovial way of approaching the 'bad behaviour'. It was done tongue firmly in cheek. They were 'charming rogues', as it were. If it had been portrayed more seriously, then perhaps it would have caused more of a stir in the public consciousness.
Additionally, even in the old days, Bond films had strong women (Fiona for instance, who actually laughed at Bond's supposed 'prowess with the ladies'). I'm not saying the character is immune to what's going on these days and I'm sure there will be further self censoring. I just think that as a character he has a unique place in the pantheon of film making and his murky profession allows more discretion in the public's eye and mind. EON have some leeway to play with going forward, as long as they approach things confidently yet cautiously.
They may be forced to approach this with a lighter touch going forward however, because even on this thread we can see that some members found the Lucia scene uncomfortable. Did anyone find the Bond/Corinne scene uncomfortable? No, because Moore played it more softly. Ultimately the goal and the result were the same however. He got to 4th/home base.
@thelivingroyale, for someone who despises outrage you're certainly fantastic at recreating it yourself. Learning through osmosis? ;)
I think you are fittingly overreacting to the response in the thread. We're discussing a very relevant concern to art in general as we know it due to the culture surrounding our current time that is most certainly one of snap judgements and retrospective censoring. I'm happy (seriously) that you haven't had to live in an area that beats you over the head with the kind of sensitivity that gives the PC/snowflake crowd their defining trait, but others of us have seen this stuff firsthand in our day to day lives and through news close to home and all that has made it very real that this kind of silly censorship does happen. We aren't imagining this and creating a monster out of thin air.
Some college campuses have outlawed using words like "lame" or "crazy" for how they may affect the emotions of a disabled or mentally ill person, Dr. Seuss murals have been vandalized/covered up by the PC because he dared to draw an Asian character as Asians look and regular good meaning people lose their careers and reputations now because they dare to make a silly joke that wasn't meant to be a serious reflection of their feelings towards any race, group or creed. Add to that a climate where every time you publicly comment on a woman's beauty you risk being criticized for thinking women are only good for sex objects or worse, accused of sexually harassing them. It's all ridiculous and is almost never relevant or founded outrage. Instead of stopping real racism and real oppression or cruelty, the PC crowd want to character assassinate comedians or artists who have been dead for decades and aren't alive to even defend their position or work. Silliness.
And because Ian Fleming is still being censored to this day by publications as recent as the Vintage reprints of his novels this month, regardless of the publisher's reasoning as to why, it's most certainly a relevant question to ask how this climate may affect future Bond films.
Basically I think the worst of the "PC gone mad!!!" crowd are just as annoying as the SJW no fun allowed types, but that side of it is never really bought up on here.
And @bondjames was right in that I thought we were on about the possibility of the old Bond films being censored rather than him being softened up in the new ones. I actually agree there could be a danger of that. Still annoyed he stopped smoking for example.
Also @Brady, you're right that I haven't had to live in an area where people are actually that oversensitive. Can't say I've ever encountered an 'SJW' outside of the internet. But I am old enough to remember when racism, homophobia, etc were a lot more commonplace. I meet loads of people even now who just casually use slurs when describing certain groups of people without a second thought because of the way they were bought up, and I'm glad that we're slowly moving past that.
I think based off the other "PC" thread (do we really need this one) you and me do see eye to eye on this sort of thing, glad I'm not alone.
@thelivingroyale, whether there was a pressing concern about it or not (though some of us have worried about it because other pieces of art do get censored for the modern time) doesn't detract from discussing it and what could happen in the future.
You mention Bond not smoking as something that bugs you, and why do you think that happened? So in more ways than you might be aware of, I think you agree with some of us more than you disagree. We've seen changes happen to many characters in film to fit the modern day and the audience's sensitive expectations to avoid upsetting the box office markets and hurting the film's profits, so it's a real concern. Ask EON how making China look bad in SF went for them, for example. The film had to be censored because one of their biggest markets didn't like how they were portrayed in the film for torturing Silva. This kind of thing happens constantly and you will not only see villains changed to avoid offending a particular market, you'll probably also see more Asians cast in general to appeal to those audiences. It's all business, where you pander and avoid offense because you have to to meet your bottom line.
As for the PC moaning, I think you are one of the lucky ones that don't have to deal with this kind of thing constantly or you live in an area that is isolated from some of it because I otherwise couldn't understand how you are fine with it. I wish it was the case for me and many others who see signs of misplaced outrage everywhere these days, in our own fields and elsewhere with the arts being at particular endangerment. You seem to think that those who are anti-PC are against fundamental beliefs of egalitarianism, like we want people to be bullied or to be the target of racism or oppression, but that couldn't be farther from the truth if you know any of us. Nobody wants the KKK to reign or for anyone of any race or gender to feel displaced, but you must admit that at times things get out of control to an insane degree.
You don't see those of the PC culture focusing on the pressing issues of our day that have an actual impact on people's lives, like systematic racism or sexism/misogyny, they get all cut up by twisting a random person's words to make them seem racist in their delusional outrage, ruin people's lives for making obvious and innocuous jokes and micro-analyze any media in front of them for the most trivial content to be upset about. Hollywood is currently being exposed for serious and felonious crimes against women and children, a major issue that deserves more support, yet at the same time that news was breaking the PC movement ridiculed the Kellogg's cereal company because one of the cartoon characters on the back of their cereal boxes was a slightly dark skinned janitor, which they took as a racist message:
https://www.avclub.com/how-the-hell-did-this-racist-kelloggs-corn-pop-happen-1819886765
This kind of thing happens all the time, and every day I read something stupid like it where a company or individual is ridiculed or bullied into retracting a statement or piece of art they made because people chose to target it for being insensitive in their minds regardless of whether that intent was there or not. The common excuse for the PC apologists is, "Well, they're just a minority, it's no big deal" but even a vocal minority can move mountains in this age. It takes just a group of people being senselessly ticked off with a drawing to tarnish an artist's reputation or to get someone fired for making a joke, so yes, the concern is real and ever present. People don't feel comfortable sharing their opinions for a reason these days, and that's because they know what happens when you open your mouth about anything because certain people out there are deluded enough to twist your words to fit a racist or sexist agenda.
I just don't think the anti-PC are your enemy here, not to mention that those of us here seem to be very progressive people anyway, and by blocking out some of what the culture is doing the issues will continue to build. What society do you want to live in, a sensitive, thought policed one where you dare not open your mouth for fear of character assassination or one where people are allowed to speak their mind about their concerns, tell simple jokes without ruining their reputations and where art and history aren't washed away in a misguided effort that only takes us further from where we should be? Let's not make Orwell's fiction more of a reality.
That's the most likely scenario, though clipping the offensive material from Goldfinger would be difficult to pull off without obscuring Pussy's motivation to switch sides. The other scenario is that the older Bond films will be broadcast less often, or not at all. Future generations might only see the later ones on TV. No matter what course is taken, I do feel it would be closing the barn door after the horse has left. Funny how we used to mock the Victorians for being so censorious...
I think we do too and I find it sadly predictable that the monstrous behaviour of men abusing their power by oppressing, demeaning, threatening and raping women has been turned into yet another thread about how straight, white men are persecuted.
It's a thread about the censorship of art, actually, but fair play to you. Weinstein and his cronies will get their due in the trendy new time we're living in where sexual assault has finally made people talk about what is happening to them and others. That's not a PC issue, it's a human rights issue.
Right, @Creasy47. There's PC annoyance, and then just things being how they should be. Everyone should feel safe in the work place, nobody should be held back from success for who they are and how they look, etc. That's never what this debate has been about, and that can sometimes be twisted.
You're not going to meet anyone worth knowing who has an issue with the revolution against sexist practices or abuse that is currently happening, nor the advances in other industries to be more inclusive. Some things are simply wrong, plain and simple.
Like you said, sometimes being a genuine human being isn't remotely a PC issue - it's a human rights issue, or the issue of having a soul or not.
I concur!
Brady and Dimi slipped me a Mickey Finn last weekend, tied me to a tacky sofa and started licking my ears. Just when I stopped crying and started enjoying it, Creasy walked in and destroyed the mood. Thank you, Crease.
"I sincerely apologize if my words or actions made @Thunderfinger or anyone else in the past feel harassed or abused. I feel immense shame for my actions and am taking this time to privately address my personal demons and grow as a more understanding, conscious and peaceful individual. These allegations, which are in part true, have shaken me and my family and friends who didn't expect to hear my name thrown into the ring of offenders. While @Thunderfinger's side of the story is partially different from mine, where I was under the impression that we were engaging in a consensual act as adults, I now see where I went wrong and what it is like to be on the receiving side of unwanted touching. I hope that my path to growth leads me to being a better person, and I hope that this journey puts me on track to gain back any trust or faith that I have caused people to lose in me."
If law enforcement professionals are reading this message, let it be known that, more importantly than anything else, what happened was all @DarthDimi's idea. Any inquiries or clarifications can be sent to my lawyer.
Dimi, see you in court.
@DarthDimi, we're both from a different generation and have been too accustomed to those poor values that in this day and age are rightfully out of style. Slaps on the rear at the office was fun, but we've got to accept that these people are victims and, shocking as it is to consider, they don't enjoy our antics half as much as we do...or at all, apparently. We've simply got to do better.
I'm getting treatment in Arizona next week for my demons, and have already ordered my plane ticket on the quickest flight out. Word is I'm sharing a room with Kevin Spacey, and now here I am concerned that I'll be the victim of unwanted touching myself now. At age 24 I hope I'm considered too old for him, but I would treat the experience as deserved karma for what I've done...
Blame society.
Also, what if he was accused let’s say 8 months down the road