Die Another Day vs Spectre.

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  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,571
    royale65 wrote: »
    It was in poor taste for a 70's porn flick.
    Hmmm, not sure about this. Perhaps I need to study some examples. Purely for research purposes.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,588
    royale65 wrote: »
    It was in poor taste for a 70's porn flick.

    Me too. Checking for a friend
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    QBranch wrote: »
    royale65 wrote: »
    It was in poor taste for a 70's porn flick.
    Hmmm, not sure about this. Perhaps I need to study some examples. Purely for research purposes.

    Don't waste your time. Grainy resolution and giant moustaches everywhere - and not just on the men.

    Czech Casting in 4K much more like it. Or so I've been told.
  • Posts: 7,418
    No fun at all to be had from DAD! Rather depressing to read so much defence for the indefensible!
    SP final act, the return to London falls flat but up to then its very entertaining.
    DAD goes wrong just after the opening surfing sequence.., action, theme song, cast, dialogue , cinematography, effects, all dire! It is literally painful to sit through!
  • Posts: 12,466
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    No fun at all to be had from DAD! Rather depressing to read so much defence for the indefensible!
    SP final act, the return to London falls flat but up to then its very entertaining.
    DAD goes wrong just after the opening surfing sequence.., action, theme song, cast, dialogue , cinematography, effects, all dire! It is literally painful to sit through!

    Pretty much. DAD goes wrong far sooner than when SP does. Besides much of SP’s third act, it’s a decent Bond film in most aspects.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    While I agree SP is the better film, DAD has no pretensions as to what it is; a silly but mostly enjoyable romp. It has a lot wrong with it but it has no ambition except to be a big splashy Bond movie. It entertains me even as I roll my eyes a lot while being entertained.

    With SP Mendes seemed to think he was Kubrick but didn't actually have the material to justify it. The SP plot is such a big dogs dinner it's a wonder anything came good out of it at all. It is a good film though, (but bottom of Craig's tenure) has a fantastic PTS, looks great, has one of the series best fight scenes, the torture scene is good up to a point and it's all very watchable.

    That's the difference for me. DAD doesn't try and be anything but a big action fantasy. SP had the potential to be something really special and never came close.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited November 2017 Posts: 17,795
    DAD has a LOT going for it. It's not high up on my list because to me it's very much like a Flint movie. That said, it can entertain the bejezus out of me in the proper mood.
    SP is a fine, OTT escapist Bond that I also view regularly. Dan rocks here. And I don't care that the music is recycled from SF because like MR I never watch it, so I don't notice.
    And I like both movies all the way to the end. ;)
  • Posts: 7,507
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    No fun at all to be had from DAD! Rather depressing to read so much defence for the indefensible!
    SP final act, the return to London falls flat but up to then its very entertaining.
    DAD goes wrong just after the opening surfing sequence.., action, theme song, cast, dialogue , cinematography, effects, all dire! It is literally painful to sit through!


    Thank you for putting it straight!
  • Spectre is above average, DAD is a milkshake headache.
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    edited November 2017 Posts: 3,000
    As far as entertainment value goes, DAD wins.

    As far as coherence of plot and volume/severity of plot holes goes, DAD wins.

    As far as not ruining an established character from the glorious past of the franchise with a soap-opera style personal connection goes, DAD wins.

    As far as a satisfying ending goes, DAD wins.

    As far as musical scores go, DAD wins.

    DAD wins.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    edited November 2017 Posts: 14,571
    @BMW_with_missiles Agreed on all points. Regarding the endings - unlike many others here, I don't dislike SP's ending (or third act). But.. it would've been better to have Ernst escape.

    And despite the praise I've given DAD a page or two back, I still consider SP the 'better made' film and put it a bit higher in my ranking.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    As far as entertainment value goes, DAD wins.

    As far as coherence of plot and volume/severity of plot holes goes, DAD wins.

    As far as not ruining an established character from the glorious past of the franchise with a soap-opera style personal connection goes, DAD wins.

    As far as a satisfying ending goes, DAD wins.

    As far as musical scores go, DAD wins.

    DAD wins.
    +1
  • Mathis1 wrote: »
    No fun at all to be had from DAD! Rather depressing to read so much defence for the indefensible!
    SP final act, the return to London falls flat but up to then its very entertaining.
    DAD goes wrong just after the opening surfing sequence.., action, theme song, cast, dialogue , cinematography, effects, all dire! It is literally painful to sit through!

    To people like you it might. People like me rather watch it twice a week then to sit just once more through SP (or SF for that matter).
  • While I agree SP is the better film, DAD has no pretensions as to what it is; a silly but mostly enjoyable romp. It has a lot wrong with it but it has no ambition except to be a big splashy Bond movie. It entertains me even as I roll my eyes a lot while being entertained.

    With SP Mendes seemed to think he was Kubrick but didn't actually have the material to justify it. The SP plot is such a big dogs dinner it's a wonder anything came good out of it at all. It is a good film though, (but bottom of Craig's tenure) has a fantastic PTS, looks great, has one of the series best fight scenes, the torture scene is good up to a point and it's all very watchable.

    That's the difference for me. DAD doesn't try and be anything but a big action fantasy. SP had the potential to be something really special and never came close.

    Even if he had the right material he still wouldn't be Kubrick. Kubrick was a genius, Mendes is just mediocre talented at best. And all the talent he has lies in being pretentious.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    While I agree SP is the better film, DAD has no pretensions as to what it is; a silly but mostly enjoyable romp. It has a lot wrong with it but it has no ambition except to be a big splashy Bond movie. It entertains me even as I roll my eyes a lot while being entertained.

    With SP Mendes seemed to think he was Kubrick but didn't actually have the material to justify it. The SP plot is such a big dogs dinner it's a wonder anything came good out of it at all. It is a good film though, (but bottom of Craig's tenure) has a fantastic PTS, looks great, has one of the series best fight scenes, the torture scene is good up to a point and it's all very watchable.

    That's the difference for me. DAD doesn't try and be anything but a big action fantasy. SP had the potential to be something really special and never came close.

    Even if he had the right material he still wouldn't be Kubrick. Kubrick was a genius, Mendes is just mediocre talented at best. And all the talent he has lies in being pretentious.

    I agree about Mendes. It makes me laugh when all these big name 'auteur' directors get mentioned in connection with a Bond film.

    They don't suit a Bond film. As Martin Campbell proved, you don't need a big flashy director to make a good Bond film. It needs a down to earth disciplined director who can handle a big budget movie.

  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,208
    Exactly, I would take a solid “working class” director with a strong script over an auteur with a mediocre one.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    talos7 wrote: »
    Exactly, I would take a solid “working class” director with a strong script over an auteur with a mediocre one.

    Yep, me too.

    Anyone know what John Glen thought of the Mendes Bond films?
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,208
    Indeed, for a Bond; I’m sure there are cases where a director can transcend a weak script.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,208
    What a great selection of films; they will comprise my next marathon.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I've been a film lover and historian my whole life, even at an academic level, but Bond is a separate passion. I'm not looking for the qualities that I am so exacting about when it comes to other cinema. I am brutal in my criticisms and expectations with movies in general. With Bond, I just want to feel that boyhood excitement again. It can come in many forms (FRWL, GF, OHMSS,TSWLM, LTK, CR per example), but I need to feel that at the root is the character I grew up loving, and I need to have a script that doesn't damage the franchise. And it cannot bore me.

    That last sentence is easily the biggest sin for me, and why I'll always elect to pop in DAD over SP. .
  • edited November 2017 Posts: 2,917
    talos7 wrote: »
    Exactly, I would take a solid “working class” director with a strong script over an auteur with a mediocre one.

    I don't think an auteur has ever worked on a Bond film. Serious high-brow film critics--the sort who seriously throw around the word "auteur"--do not regard Mendes as an auteur. They view him as a middlebrow who wandered in from the theatre and tends to make white elephant films. Michael Mann on the other hand is considered an auteur, even if he's also directed action films. What a Bond film requires is a director who's skilled at directing action, has a certain sense of style and elegance, and can get credible performances from the actors.

  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    While I agree SP is the better film, DAD has no pretensions as to what it is; a silly but mostly enjoyable romp. It has a lot wrong with it but it has no ambition except to be a big splashy Bond movie. It entertains me even as I roll my eyes a lot while being entertained.

    With SP Mendes seemed to think he was Kubrick but didn't actually have the material to justify it. The SP plot is such a big dogs dinner it's a wonder anything came good out of it at all. It is a good film though, (but bottom of Craig's tenure) has a fantastic PTS, looks great, has one of the series best fight scenes, the torture scene is good up to a point and it's all very watchable.

    That's the difference for me. DAD doesn't try and be anything but a big action fantasy. SP had the potential to be something really special and never came close.

    Even if he had the right material he still wouldn't be Kubrick. Kubrick was a genius, Mendes is just mediocre talented at best. And all the talent he has lies in being pretentious.

    I agree about Mendes. It makes me laugh when all these big name 'auteur' directors get mentioned in connection with a Bond film.

    They don't suit a Bond film. As Martin Campbell proved, you don't need a big flashy director to make a good Bond film. It needs a down to earth disciplined director who can handle a big budget movie.

    This, 100%.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Mendes should be kept away from B25 at all costs.
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    The dialogue is better in SP, thats not saying much.

    The villains plot is better in DAD.

    The Bond performance is better in DAD

    I truly hate the cinematography of SP. I can't understand why people like it. It looks as though the film was dropped in coffee before it was developed. So DAD...

    Come to think of it, surfing and one-lining aside, I prefer DAD.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    SP's cinematography is even worse knowing they went from the beauty of Deakins' prowess to a piss-stained filter.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    SP's cinematography is even worse knowing they went from the beauty of Deakins' prowess to a piss-stained filter.

    Did Hoity Toityma actually piss on the filter? Is that an artistic method? At least it is cheap.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    SP's cinematography is even worse knowing they went from the beauty of Deakins' prowess to a piss-stained filter.

    Did Hoity Toityma actually piss on the filter? Is that an artistic method? At least it is cheap.

    It's either that, or he worked on the film in the middle of a Chinese street and all the air pollution seeped into the footage.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Either way, very creative.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    SP's cinematography is even worse knowing they went from the beauty of Deakins' prowess to a piss-stained filter.

    Did Hoity Toityma actually piss on the filter? Is that an artistic method? At least it is cheap.

    More money for Mendes to blow on the explosion? @Thunderfinger, I think you cracked it!
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited November 2017 Posts: 9,117
    I'd sooner have Hoyte's fine cinematography, piss filter and all, than DAD's hyperactive-toddler-with-a-handful-of-magic-markers colour palette that in some scenes looks like someone has thrown a bag of skittles at the screen.
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