Controversial opinions about other movies

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  • Posts: 15,229
    Since we're talking of Cameron I find him incredibly overrated. And Terminator did not need a sequel, let alone a franchise.
  • edited October 2018 Posts: 17,819
    Strog wrote: »
    Good point. There will surely be some other brand-name properties they can make into blockbusters targeting the same age group. Same ol' Hollywood.
    I wish there was more original big-budget stuff (which seems limited to Nolan-directed fare at the moment) or even just original stuff that's not soulless Oscar bait. I'll go out of my way to attend something like BABY DRIVER (even if it was just okay in my book) to help encourage the originality.

    I wish there was, too. One of the last films I found somewhat original (although there might be plenty of similar films around for all I know), was Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter. I remember me and a few friends went to watch it at the theatre just because the plot seemed so hilarious!
    bondjames wrote: »
    Strog wrote: »
    Is there any indication that there will be less superhero films the next few years? Feels like there's a new one out each month.
    No, and I'm not sure the genie is going back in the bottle any time soon, tbh. Even if superhero films die out, will Hollywood ever again widely spend money on anything but brand-name properties marketed to adolescents? An entire generation (of future MBA-marketed "auteurs") is growing up to regard even the Weinstein-outsourced Best Picture contenders with the same suspicion of quaintness that they do novels and other homework assignments.

    Good point. There will surely be some other brand-name properties they can make into blockbusters targeting the same age group. Same ol' Hollywood.
    There are certainly a lot of these sorts of films, true. However, they aren't all very successful.

    Marvel seems to do a good job of it but I often read criticism of DC's efforts. I think the former (under Kevin Feige's leadership) have a knack for creating interesting & credible characterizations for their properties which they then build upon with successive films. They also cast quite well and take some risks. Is it cookie cutter factory style to an extent? Yes, but it also seems to consistently resonate, and I'd argue some of that has to be due to execution. I enjoy them for the most part, & like most have my favourites. I honestly wouldn't have predicted this level of success for them a decade ago (at that time Nolan & DC were riding high with TDK and Iron Man had just been released).

    Yeah, you got to give it to Marvel that they do a fantastic job making new films on a steady basis. I guess many (if not all!) here would like a consistently release schedule for Bond too, but we can't expect that.
    bondjames wrote: »
    There also appears to be a lot of interest (particularly in foreign markets) for creature type films (JW, The Meg, Venom etc.).
    It looks to be great interest in these films. Wouldn't be surprising if we'll see a lot more films like these going forward.
    bondjames wrote: »
    I suppose, given the increasing production & distribution costs for films, that studios will continue to rely on these somewhat guaranteed franchise IP tentpoles to pull in the theatre punters while shunting other types of films to Netflix and other distribution channels. In the end it doesn't really bother me which distribution channel is used as long as interesting fare makes its way to the market in some way shape or form. With home theatre technology improving by leaps and bounds we are quite spoiled for choice between tv, streaming and theatre.

    That's a good point. As someone who rarely goes to the cinema these days, it's good to see that there's quality content being made for the numerous streaming services. We should probably just be happy that there's distribution channels for "non-blockbuster" films and series.

    As a side note; Netflix seems to be competing with regular broadcasters for distribution rights these days too. The much talked about BBC series Bodyguard, will be released through Netflix here in Norway. Quite surprising, as this is a series you'd expect to be on TV here.
  • edited October 2018 Posts: 7,507
    jobo wrote: »
    Lets not pretend it is only a generational thing. I have encountered people in their 50s claim Tarantino´s films are not action packed enough for them. Not least on this very thread...

    If you're referring to me then you're barking up the wrong tree pal.

    Tarantino has always been for me one of the most exciting screenwriter director's around.

    I saw Reservoir Dogs way back in 1992 before it was even released and realised then this guy was an exciting new talent. I even met the man at the screening and still have his autograph.

    Reservoir Dogs and Pulp Fiction are both in my top ten favourite films.


    No, I was not referring to you... You are only one of several people I have communicated with on this thread. Don't pretend you are more important than you are...

    So you are creating a strawman that I have created a strawman in order to attack me for creating strawmen? Now that is rich...
    jobo wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    Certainly controversial to call James Cameron overrated. Surely on of the best action directors in the history of cinema.

    I agree on Titanic being a silly overblown effort. But I really like Avatar for all its unoriginal plot shenanigans, it's still a stunning film.

    But no one can argue against The Terminator, T2 and Aliens being brilliant offerings.

    I also love The Abyss and True Lies although they do have faults.


    No one can argue?? I certainly could!

    - "Surely one of the best action directors in the history of cinema"

    That one made me laugh! ;))

    Name me a better action director. And if it's Michael Bay then do please jog on.


    Quentin Tarantino, J. J. Abrams, John Woo, George Miller, Peter Jackson, Ridley Scott are the first names that pop up in my head. I could go on, but I don't really see the point. Lets throw Spielberg in there too, even if this all started with me claiming he was overrated. I'd take him every day over Cameron...

    George Miller may come close, but the rest of those aren't specifically known as action director's. Apart from John Woo of course who's action is too OTT to be taken seriously.

    In the action stakes Cameron is king.

    At least you didn't list Michael Bay....


    Sorry, I thought we were rating the ability to direct an action scene, not how many action scenes you can cramp into a film... my bad.

    Where did I mention that? Doesn't matter how much action is in a film, Cameron is the best full stop IMO.

    As I mentioned before, his flood channel chase in T2 is better than most director's entire action oeuvre.

    And if you're not convinced watch the helicopter sequence along the bridge in Florida in True Lies for how good this guy is.

    But then if I'd mentioned one of those other director's were the best I would have got the same response from you. You just like being contrary because that's your 'thing'


    I have no interesti in watching T2. T1 was enough...


    True Lies I will have check out. My expectations are low... But who knows.
    Mack_Bolan wrote: »
    He doesn’t have time to watch True Lies. He’s too busy revisiting his favorite film, Star Wars: The Force Awakens.


    As usual you have no idea what you are talking about...

    Oh that's rich! You haven't seen T2, The Abyss, True Lies or Aliens?!!!!!

    Your opinion on Cameron is therefore null and void.

    That's like me saying Hitchcock is overrated without seeing Psycho, North By Northwest or Vertigo!

    And how dare you mention 'strawman' arguments to the other member on here when you're the expert at it.


    Interesting, since none of those films are actually regarded as his most famous. The comparison you make with Hitchcock is therefore not really valid.

    The Abyss I have seen actually, although I forgot that was a Cameron film too. I admit it is technically well made, although it doesn't alter my view on Cameron in general. You can claim his style is drastically different in those movies I haven't seen, but I alove myself to be sceptical...

    Do we use the same rule for all directors btw? If you haven't seen all of Terence Young's films you are not allowed to praise him as a director based on his three Bond films? What about Guy Hamilton? Am I not allowed to stay away from Michael Bay's films based on the two movies of his I have seen? Do I have to drag myself through all of them in order to be allowed to say I don't like his films?

    If you haven't noticed I am not the only one here who has expressed an opinion on him being overrated. So I can not be the one and only, crazy exception... Just accept he is not everyone's cup of tea. Maybe it is actually possible to argue with him being "the king of action"?
  • The notion that Terminator 2 and Aliens are not among Cameron’s “most famous” films is obviously preposterous. Your embarrassing admission that you haven’t seen those films shows you lack credibility. But since you were caught lying about how you “never” mocked Cameron, nothing you say can be believed. You’re just trying to be contrarian for the sake of being contrarian.
  • Posts: 7,653
    Well you have to admit Terminator 2 & Aliens were bit art-house so it is easy to have overlooked them, especially as both are involved in the general discussion if the sequel is better than the original.

    So I can understand how jobo missed these two smallish movies. ;)
  • edited October 2018 Posts: 7,507
    Mack_Bolan wrote: »
    The notion that Terminator 2 and Aliens are not among Cameron’s “most famous” films is obviously preposterous. Your embarrassing admission that you haven’t seen those films shows you lack credibility. But since you were caught lying about how you “never” mocked Cameron, nothing you say can be believed. You’re just trying to be contrarian for the sake of being contrarian.


    Haha. Yes it feels very embarrassing to not have watched another sci fi debacle from the eighties and another Schwarzenegger action flick. I am not sure I can live with myself anymore :))

    Aliens and T2 are probably famous, but not nearly as much as Titanic or Avatar. That is the point. I don't really buy the idea that T2 so vastly different to T1 that if you have only seen the latter you cannot have an impression of the franchise as whole or Even the director. I'm sorry.

    Now about the "mocking": The term constitutes an element of ridicule with vicious intent. Mockery is not the same as criticism. Me comparing Cameron to big commercial enterprises don't really qualify as "mockery", it is criticism. But I realize we are in an era of hypersensitivity regarding such issues... ;))
  • How do you know Terminator 2 is a “debacle” if you haven’t even seen it? How do you know Terminator 2 is not so different from The Terminator if you haven’t even seen it? Again, you criticize from a position of ignorance.
  • Posts: 19,339
    As for the films mentioned,i have seen them all,and,while I haven't really got on with the Terminator series or The Abyss,the other two,True Lies and Aliens,are two of the best films made in the 90's and are excellent in all ways.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,078
    barryt007 wrote: »
    As for the films mentioned,i have seen them all,and,while I haven't really got on with the Terminator series or The Abyss,the other two,True Lies and Aliens,are two of the best films made in the 90's and are excellent in all ways.

    Yeah, True Lies was released right in middle of our 'Bond drought' between LTK and GE, and boy did Cameron make a great spy adventure!

    Personally the comedy aspects of the film don't appeal to me much, but it certainly delivers on thrilling action and spectacle. The very Bondian opening sequence, the brutal bathroom fight, the incredible stunt on the Florida bridge, and those awesome scenes with the Harrier Jump Jet.

    I saw this at the Empire Leicester Sq which was the perfect place to experience Cameron's action epic! His action directing is inventive, skillful and involving.

    As I said before, one of the best action director's in the history of cinema.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    edited October 2018 Posts: 4,078
    Mack_Bolan wrote: »
    How do you know Terminator 2 is a “debacle” if you haven’t even seen it? How do you know Terminator 2 is not so different from The Terminator if you haven’t even seen it? Again, you criticize from a position of ignorance.

    @Mack_Bolan

    This why I tend not to engage with this member, because he comes across as either a troll or idiotically contrary. I find it rather tiresome.
  • Posts: 19,339
    barryt007 wrote: »
    As for the films mentioned,i have seen them all,and,while I haven't really got on with the Terminator series or The Abyss,the other two,True Lies and Aliens,are two of the best films made in the 90's and are excellent in all ways.

    Yeah, True Lies was released right in middle of our 'Bond drought' between LTK and GE, and boy did Cameron make a great spy adventure!

    Personally the comedy aspects of the film don't appeal to me much, but it certainly delivers on thrilling action and spectacle. The very Bondian opening sequence, the brutal bathroom fight, the incredible stunt on the Florida bridge, and those awesome scenes with the Harrier Jump Jet.

    I saw this at the Empire Leicester Sq which was the perfect place to experience Cameron's action epic! His action directing is inventive, skillful and involving.

    As I said before, one of the best action director's in the history of cinema.

    It had a great score throughout as well.

    I remember all the papers saying that Arnie could be the next Bond,as he played the role so well and looked great in a tuxedo hahaha !!
  • Posts: 15,229
    My controversial opinion : True Lies is a poor remake of La Totale which was funnier.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,694
    Too move away from the James Cameron is overrated, (he is, in my opinion). I feel that Tim Burton's movies without Johnny Depp and Helena Bonham Carter are his better works. Whenever they're in his movies, they are the front of attention, and it gets uncomfortable.
  • Posts: 7,507
    Mack_Bolan wrote: »
    How do you know Terminator 2 is a “debacle” if you haven’t even seen it? How do you know Terminator 2 is not so different from The Terminator if you haven’t even seen it? Again, you criticize from a position of ignorance.

    @Mack_Bolan

    This why I tend not to engage with this member, because he comes across as either a troll or idiotically contrary. I find it rather tiresome.


    Translates to; "disagrees with me" ;))

    Judging by the opinions on this thread however, I am in the clear majority... So if I really wanted to be the cool, rebellious contrarion, I failed massively this time ;)
  • Posts: 7,653
    jobo wrote: »
    Mack_Bolan wrote: »
    How do you know Terminator 2 is a “debacle” if you haven’t even seen it? How do you know Terminator 2 is not so different from The Terminator if you haven’t even seen it? Again, you criticize from a position of ignorance.

    @Mack_Bolan

    This why I tend not to engage with this member, because he comes across as either a troll or idiotically contrary. I find it rather tiresome.


    Translates to; "disagrees with me" ;))

    Judging by the opinions on this thread however, I am in the clear majority... So if I really wanted to be the cool, rebellious contrarion, I failed massively this time ;)

    No this time you made yourself look foolish by admitting that you have left out some of the best action movies around and still having a judgement on them and their director.

    Occasionally we all have our faux pas and have to live with them at all.

    The general opinion is not about Cameron being a bad action director but people dislike Titanic and Avatar. That is a different opinion.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    edited October 2018 Posts: 4,078
    "No this time you made yourself look foolish by admitting that you have left out some of the best action movies around and still having a judgement on them and their director."


    Exactly.
  • Posts: 7,507
    - "Some of the best action movies around"

    Claimed by some. It is apparent that many people disagree...
  • Posts: 7,653
    jobo wrote: »
    - "Some of the best action movies around"

    Claimed by some. It is apparent that many people disagree...

    Jobo sometimes a wise man knows when to fold his cards and admit a mistake and go on with his live.
  • Posts: 15,229
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    Too move away from the James Cameron is overrated, (he is, in my opinion). I feel that Tim Burton's movies without Johnny Depp and Helena Bonham Carter are his better works. Whenever they're in his movies, they are the front of attention, and it gets uncomfortable.

    I'd say that Tim Burton's movies with Johnny Depp and Helena Bonham Carter often turn out rather lazy and by-the-number. Maybe not his animated ones and not his early ones but the rest... I understand Batman Returns was supposed to have Bonham Carter as Catwoman. With all its flaws I'm glad it wasn't the case.

    Oh and I liked Sleepy Hollow, but would have preferred it without Depp.
  • Posts: 7,653
    Johnny Depp I am not a great fan of actually, I find the characters he plays generally a wee bit over the top.

    As for Helena Bonham Carter I believe she was Burtons muse, which I can understand she is special and her acting roles outside of the Burton world are easily better than she delivers with her former partner. I like her a lot and her acting is generally quite good.

    Burtons movie are special too albeit in a weirdly magical way.
  • Posts: 15,229
    She can be great and I can understand that she's Burton's muse and everything. But her playing a gothic character in a gothic movie is a bit... Unimaginative.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,694
    I'm glad that all three of them are taking a break from each other. Even back when AIW, I remember people saying enough of the trio. Thankfully, Burton is working with Michael Keaton again. They always have good results.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,078
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    Too move away from the James Cameron is overrated, (he is, in my opinion). I feel that Tim Burton's movies without Johnny Depp and Helena Bonham Carter are his better works. Whenever they're in his movies, they are the front of attention, and it gets uncomfortable.

    I thought one of Burton's best and most under appreciated films he did with Depp was, Ed Wood (1994) a fond and admittedly rose tinted look at the director of Plan 9 From Outer Space

    Depp is great in it, but Martin Landau as Bela Lagosi steals the film (and got an oscar in the process)

    Beautifully shot in B/W it's a real gem.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,511
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    Too move away from the James Cameron is overrated, (he is, in my opinion). I feel that Tim Burton's movies without Johnny Depp and Helena Bonham Carter are his better works. Whenever they're in his movies, they are the front of attention, and it gets uncomfortable.

    I thought one of Burton's best and most under appreciated films he did with Depp was, Ed Wood (1994) a fond and admittedly rose tinted look at the director of Plan 9 From Outer Space

    Depp is great in it, but Martin Landau as Bela Lagosi steals the film (and got an oscar in the process)

    Beautifully shot in B/W it's a real gem.

    Absolutely-- love this film. Landau was brilliant-- he seemed to ground the hyperkinetic performance of Depp.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,078
    peter wrote: »
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    Too move away from the James Cameron is overrated, (he is, in my opinion). I feel that Tim Burton's movies without Johnny Depp and Helena Bonham Carter are his better works. Whenever they're in his movies, they are the front of attention, and it gets uncomfortable.

    I thought one of Burton's best and most under appreciated films he did with Depp was, Ed Wood (1994) a fond and admittedly rose tinted look at the director of Plan 9 From Outer Space

    Depp is great in it, but Martin Landau as Bela Lagosi steals the film (and got an oscar in the process)

    Beautifully shot in B/W it's a real gem.

    Absolutely-- love this film. Landau was brilliant-- he seemed to ground the hyperkinetic performance of Depp.

    Agreed @peter

    I also loved the cameo from Vincent D'Onofrio as Orson Welles!
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,511
    Not the last time he played the role @LeonardPine :

    In 2004, D'Onofrio made this short film:

  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,078
    peter wrote: »
    Not the last time he played the role @LeonardPine :

    In 2004, D'Onofrio made this short film:


    Oh wow, i've never seen this!
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,511
    peter wrote: »
    Not the last time he played the role @LeonardPine :

    In 2004, D'Onofrio made this short film:


    Oh wow, i've never seen this!

    I don't think many ppl have @LeonardPine ... it was released during a festival and I believe lay "hidden" for years before being released on YT. D'Onofrio directed as well.

    D'Onofrio could now play the older Welles-- perfect casting again!
  • edited October 2018 Posts: 1,713
    There were lots of Marvel comics in Norway in the 80s.

    Yes , I know......they never seemed popular with kids though , it was all He-Man (imo he was the king of 80s toons for a few yrs at least) , Transformers and later Batman & TMNT

    SW was a bit before my time , didnt see it until '88.......I had seen the toys before , my parents went to an old friend and their kid had tons of SW toys
  • Posts: 1,713
    peter wrote: »
    BT3366 wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    SaintMark wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    I've never particularly enjoyed the Terminator films. Might be a genre thing, but still.


    The only reason that film exists is so we can make parodies of it an silly references in comedies and cartoons ;)

    It's films that screams silly references. Not that there's anything wrong with that though. :)

    I agree with that. But the films are in all honesty mostly remembered for Arnold's German accent... ;)

    Austrian! :D

    It's the same language... I have never met an Austrian who says he speaks Austrian. German is what they speak.

    I'm not a German expert, but aren't there some differences between the Austrian and German accents? Not that it's necessarily noticeable when talking English, only with an accent, of course!

    Of course there is a difference in the language it is Austrian German like Schweitzerdeutch is something else too.

    The Terminator is and remains an icon character, especially played by Arnold.

    Just like bavarian German is different... it is basically a dialect.

    But we are moving off topic...

    Sorry, mods!
    _____________________
    I agree about Tarantino's work with action sequences. They are always very enjoyable. I also enjoy Guy Ritchie's action sequences. That should be controversial enough for some!

    Unfortunately his action scenes don't last 40 minutes to an hour, so they are not heavy enough for some of the junkies on here...

    Reminds me of when I watched Inglourious Basterds at the theatre, and a group of people left midway through the film because of "all the talking".

    The ADHD generation: too much sugar, too many soundbites, click-bait, tweets; self-absorption and entitled gratification. No focus.

    I'm having a vision of an A Clockwork Orange variation by sitting them in theater seats with their eyes pushed open by clips to watch something like 2001: A Space Odyssey or about any other plot-driven film that requires viewing and not waiting for the next thrill.

    Their heads will explode.

    Like in the movie Maniac ? :P

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