Controversial opinions about other movies

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  • Posts: 1,916
    It'll be interesting to track how BR 2049 is perceived years from now. While the original BR is now hailed as a classic, it wasn't upon release. It built that reputation over time. Early reviews weren't kind, box office wasn't good and my own viewing in the summer of '82 was one of disappointment.

    What wasn't to be excited about? Harrison Ford was probably the hottest star on the planet, coming off the 1-2 blockbuster punch of Empire Strikes Back and Raiders of the Lost Ark and here he is back in a summer genre pic. They marketed it as a typical blockbuster with comics adaptations, magazines and even die-cast spinner toys. It was my summer go-to as a 15-year-old.

    I wasn't expecting the noirish feel and wondered where the wisecracking Han Solo/Indy Ford was in all this along with the heavy themes and the slowness of a lot of it. The artsy shot of Pris falling through the panes of glass accompanied by the weird Vangelis music wasn't like the rousing John Williams score we were accustomed to.

    As I saw BR at a drive-in, the second feature was, strangely, Body Heat, and that was somehow more interesting than BR. What did stand out about BR was Rutger Hauer. I became a fan of his from that film.

    Films like ET and Wrath of Khan left BR in the dust that summer. But it built its reputation from cable showings and home video. I didn't forget it and the home viewing experience sparked a new interest in it, particularly Hauer's Batty and I became a fan, going to the recut and buying it on home video. It's one of those films where the behind-the-scenes story was as compelling as the movie.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Man Of Steel is far and away the best Superman movie ever made.

    And i grew up watching the Reeve films.

    +1
  • Posts: 7,407
    BT3366 wrote: »
    It'll be interesting to track how BR 2049 is perceived years from now. While the original BR is now hailed as a classic, it wasn't upon release. It built that reputation over time. Early reviews weren't kind, box office wasn't good and my own viewing in the summer of '82 was one of disappointment.

    What wasn't to be excited about? Harrison Ford was probably the hottest star on the planet, coming off the 1-2 blockbuster punch of Empire Strikes Back and Raiders of the Lost Ark and here he is back in a summer genre pic. They marketed it as a typical blockbuster with comics adaptations, magazines and even die-cast spinner toys. It was my summer go-to as a 15-year-old.

    I wasn't expecting the noirish feel and wondered where the wisecracking Han Solo/Indy Ford was in all this along with the heavy themes and the slowness of a lot of it. The artsy shot of Pris falling through the panes of glass accompanied by the weird Vangelis music wasn't like the rousing John Williams score we were accustomed to.

    As I saw BR at a drive-in, the second feature was, strangely, Body Heat, and that was somehow more interesting than BR. What did stand out about BR was Rutger Hauer. I became a fan of his from that film.

    Films like ET and Wrath of Khan left BR in the dust that summer. But it built its reputation from cable showings and home video. I didn't forget it and the home viewing experience sparked a new interest in it, particularly Hauer's Batty and I became a fan, going to the recut and buying it on home video. It's one of those films where the behind-the-scenes story was as compelling as the movie.

    I really liked Blade Runner when I saw it first in the cinema, particularly the visuals which were stunning. I hated the narration and the ridiculous tacked on happy ending. The Directors cut fixed this, and i now consider it a classic!
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,157
    I'm sure this is very controversial, but I rank the Predator films as follows:

    1) Predators
    2) Predator
    3) Predator 2
    4) The Predator

    I've discovered people think me insane for preferring Predators over Predator. Can't help it. I think it's the better film in every way.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    edited January 2021 Posts: 4,603
    Here are some outside stories (books and videogames) that I consider cannon with their films. They just fit right (namely story-wise) to me.

    The Godfather: The Family Corleone by Edward Falco, on part of The Godfather Part 4's screenplay by Mario Puzo. A good enough quality for a proper conclusion, no more Godfather products! It fits in the book's and film's timeline as a prequel.

    Indiana Jones: The Fate of Atlantis, The Infernal Machine and The Emperor's Tomb are on quality with TOD and TLC as great adventures. They play as you imagine Indy would feel like, with the twists and turns of a Indy adventure. Hopefully Bethesda and Lucasfilm Games can make a worthy edition! With Harrison Ford and Karen Allen.

    Ghostbusters: The Video Game is The REAL Ghostbusters 3. It's story is better than Ghostbusters 2. It has the main characters that we love from the first 2 movies and their actors, and leaves them on a high point quality wise.

    James Bond: I also include Bloodstone and Goldeneye Reloaded in canon with DC's timeline. Once again they both bring some things full circle. Namely, Blofeld's arguable impeded connection to Nicole Hunter, and making Bond more of a veteran agent in Skyfall.

    Also, I do consider Everything or Nothing as canon, as it felt like a true Bond adventure, and had connections to earlier films (TSWLM, MR, AVTAK and DAD), and it did send PB on a high note. Plus, it's storyline was on par with GE as the best of PB's era. I liked the more emphasis on the villain's part, adds more depth, with Nikolai Diavolo's revenge being on par with Alec Treveylan as most reasonable.

    Back to the Future: The Game by Telltale Games is the real BTTF Part 4. It adds a new elements too the series, not repeating itself like parts 2 and (in particular 3) did. New villain that we wouldn't have thought of, and once again high quality to fit in fairly, and give the series a less "history repeats itself" finale.

    Sherlock Holmes: The Mary Russell Series by Laurie R. King. I don't believe that Holmes would give up being a detective. Mary Russell is a great character for him to interact with. I'm surprised that it hasn't been adapted into a movie series yet. An older Robert Downey Jr. with an unknown actress, possibly? I would help with that!

    What I'm going for is story, it's quality overall, and ending on positive work for the fans.
  • Posts: 1,394
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I'm sure this is very controversial, but I rank the Predator films as follows:

    1) Predators
    2) Predator
    3) Predator 2
    4) The Predator

    I've discovered people think me insane for preferring Predators over Predator. Can't help it. I think it's the better film in every way.

    That certainly is controversial.Especially considering that Predators is just a rehash of the original film.It even copies some scenes and musical notes from the film beat for beat.I dislike it for the same reason i do The force Awakens ( Which was a whisker short of being a straight out remake of A New Hope but with added Wokeness ).
  • Posts: 7,507
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I'm sure this is very controversial, but I rank the Predator films as follows:

    1) Predators
    2) Predator
    3) Predator 2
    4) The Predator

    I've discovered people think me insane for preferring Predators over Predator. Can't help it. I think it's the better film in every way.

    That certainly is controversial.Especially considering that Predators is just a rehash of the original film.It even copies some scenes and musical notes from the film beat for beat.I dislike it for the same reason i do The force Awakens ( Which was a whisker short of being a straight out remake of A New Hope but with added Wokeness ).

    The Force Awakens basically buried Star Wars. They had a chance yo take the franchise in new directions, instead they simply rehashed the same old storyline...
  • Posts: 1,394
    jobo wrote: »
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I'm sure this is very controversial, but I rank the Predator films as follows:

    1) Predators
    2) Predator
    3) Predator 2
    4) The Predator

    I've discovered people think me insane for preferring Predators over Predator. Can't help it. I think it's the better film in every way.

    That certainly is controversial.Especially considering that Predators is just a rehash of the original film.It even copies some scenes and musical notes from the film beat for beat.I dislike it for the same reason i do The force Awakens ( Which was a whisker short of being a straight out remake of A New Hope but with added Wokeness ).

    The Force Awakens basically buried Star Wars. They had a chance yo take the franchise in new directions, instead they simply rehashed the same old storyline...

    Agreed.I remember when it came out and i felt like a lone wolf for hating it as it seemed EVERYONE was showering it with praise.I think the nostalgia factor in rehashing A New Hope blinded many people to its faults which is now more apparent now that the trilogy is done and the creators obviously had no plan and were making it up as they went!
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    I thought Blade Runner 2049 was very boring, with bad editing. I know it's
    universally hailed as a masterpiece, but not for me.

    I was expecting more, and came away very disappointed. It doesn't come anyway close to the original, imo.

    Agreed. It's certainly a good and well made film. But these people saying it's better than the original should seek help!

    Doesn't come close to Blade Runner 1982 😁
  • Posts: 15,105
    Well, I don't know if it's suitable here, but I can't find the Controversial opinion for anything else thread and since 1984 has been adapted into movies, it must count. Anyway here it is: too many uneducated idiots mention Orwell while they've read nothing of his work and know only the title of one his books. On a side note, Orwell was also a socialist: https://jacobinmag.com/2021/02/george-orwell-1984-censorship-socialism
  • Posts: 7,507
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Well, I don't know if it's suitable here, but I can't find the Controversial opinion for anything else thread and since 1984 has been adapted into movies, it must count. Anyway here it is: too many uneducated idiots mention Orwell while they've read nothing of his work and know only the title of one his books. On a side note, Orwell was also a socialist: https://jacobinmag.com/2021/02/george-orwell-1984-censorship-socialism

    I suppose the reason you mention he was a socialist is because his+ name tend to come up in political duscussions?
  • Posts: 15,105
    jobo wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Well, I don't know if it's suitable here, but I can't find the Controversial opinion for anything else thread and since 1984 has been adapted into movies, it must count. Anyway here it is: too many uneducated idiots mention Orwell while they've read nothing of his work and know only the title of one his books. On a side note, Orwell was also a socialist: https://jacobinmag.com/2021/02/george-orwell-1984-censorship-socialism

    I suppose the reason you mention he was a socialist is because his+ name tend to come up in political duscussions?

    No, because Orwell himself identified himself as a socialist. Even naming his protagonist in 1984 Winston Smith was not an homage to Churchill, it was a jab at him.
  • Posts: 7,507
    Ludovico wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Well, I don't know if it's suitable here, but I can't find the Controversial opinion for anything else thread and since 1984 has been adapted into movies, it must count. Anyway here it is: too many uneducated idiots mention Orwell while they've read nothing of his work and know only the title of one his books. On a side note, Orwell was also a socialist: https://jacobinmag.com/2021/02/george-orwell-1984-censorship-socialism

    I suppose the reason you mention he was a socialist is because his+ name tend to come up in political duscussions?

    No, because Orwell himself identified himself as a socialist. Even naming his protagonist in 1984 Winston Smith was not an homage to Churchill, it was a jab at him.

    Yes, I know that. I was curious why you thought it was necessary to mention it...?
  • Posts: 15,105
    jobo wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Well, I don't know if it's suitable here, but I can't find the Controversial opinion for anything else thread and since 1984 has been adapted into movies, it must count. Anyway here it is: too many uneducated idiots mention Orwell while they've read nothing of his work and know only the title of one his books. On a side note, Orwell was also a socialist: https://jacobinmag.com/2021/02/george-orwell-1984-censorship-socialism

    I suppose the reason you mention he was a socialist is because his+ name tend to come up in political duscussions?

    No, because Orwell himself identified himself as a socialist. Even naming his protagonist in 1984 Winston Smith was not an homage to Churchill, it was a jab at him.

    Yes, I know that. I was curious why you thought it was necessary to mention it...?

    Because in recent years and recent weeks even more Orwell has been brandished to denounce everything left of the centre. Sometimes even left of the far right. I find the misuse of the term Orwellian both dishonest and abysmally stupid.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,546
    Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I always thought calling something "Orwellian" referred to the things he wrote about, rather than his own political leanings.
  • Posts: 7,507
    Ludovico wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Well, I don't know if it's suitable here, but I can't find the Controversial opinion for anything else thread and since 1984 has been adapted into movies, it must count. Anyway here it is: too many uneducated idiots mention Orwell while they've read nothing of his work and know only the title of one his books. On a side note, Orwell was also a socialist: https://jacobinmag.com/2021/02/george-orwell-1984-censorship-socialism

    I suppose the reason you mention he was a socialist is because his+ name tend to come up in political duscussions?

    No, because Orwell himself identified himself as a socialist. Even naming his protagonist in 1984 Winston Smith was not an homage to Churchill, it was a jab at him.

    Yes, I know that. I was curious why you thought it was necessary to mention it...?

    Because in recent years and recent weeks even more Orwell has been brandished to denounce everything left of the centre. Sometimes even left of the far right. I find the misuse of the term Orwellian both dishonest and abysmally stupid.

    Hence my initial question ;)

    This has annoyed me as well. I saw a filmatization of Animal Farm once. It was pretty revolting. All the clever symbolism of the novel had been stripped off and they had turned it into a vulgar propaganda film. Orwell's message with the book was not to say "all socialists are evil" but that seems to be how it is interpreted by many...
  • Posts: 15,105
    Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I always thought calling something "Orwellian" referred to the things he wrote about, rather than his own political leanings.

    Yes, but obviously they can't be entirely separated. Orwell did not write, even involuntary, a denunciation of everything left and advocated for capitalism. Not in 1984, not in Animal Farm, not in his other works. To somehow make my posts on the subject relevant to this thread's title, I think this glaring misconception about his work explains why they adapted Animal Farm (twice I believe) with a happy ending tacked on.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,108
    Just out of curiosity, did you like the Nineteen Eighty-Four adaption with Hurt and Burton?
  • Posts: 15,105
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Just out of curiosity, did you like the Nineteen Eighty-Four adaption with Hurt and Burton?

    Oh yes! Loved it. I'd say it's an almost perfect adaptation.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited February 2021 Posts: 7,108
    I liked it too. What is your opinion on the whole soundtrack discussion? Being a bit of a synth fan, I always liked the Eurythmics score myself. Though I've read that the director did not.

    I do get your sentiment about Orwell as well. He was centre left, but critical of the far left. You'll find that difficult to explain to those who have been told that these are synonyms however.
  • Posts: 15,105
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    I liked it too. What is your opinion on the whole soundtrack discussion? Being a bit of a synth fan, I always liked the Eurythmics score myself. Though I've read that the director did not.

    I do get your sentiment about Orwell as well. He was centre left, but critical of the far left. You'll find that difficult to explain to those who have been told that these are synonyms however.

    That is IMO the only true weakness of the film, or at least something of a dissonance. I understand it was not the director's choice.

    I think in our days, when confrontation is confused with debate and moderation is view as weakness, it's difficult for many idiots to understand that there's a difference between socialism and communism. Orwell was very much a social democrat. And it transpires in both Animal Farm and 1984. The former certainly cannot be seen as advocating capitalism and the animals' uprising is seen as both legitimate and morally justified. Even in 1984, the triumph of Ingsoc can be explained by the failures of capitalism.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited February 2021 Posts: 7,108
    Without going to much into the fields of politics here (to use General Gogol's magic words from OP: we know where it will end ;) ) , I do agree with you on this one.
  • edited February 2021 Posts: 15,105
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Without going to much into the fields of politics here (to use General Gogol's magic words from OP: we know where it will end ;) ) , I do agree with you on this one.

    It's not so much about politics than literature. You can agree or disagree with a work of art, in part or not, but you can't just say it means something when it does not, just to comfort yourself in your own ideology. If you adapt Animal Farm, I find it disingenuous to drop the downer ending in favour of a happy one.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited February 2021 Posts: 7,546
    This is a weird thought that just jumped into my head while reading about the new Uncharted film coming out. There must be a term for when a property, or an idea, folds back onto itself repeatedly; like first there was Indiana Jones, and then they made a video game franchise likely inspired by Indiana Jones called Uncharted (which may have been called such because of licensing issues) so that Indiana Jones could be a video game. But now they're making an Uncharted Movie so that the the Indiana Jones video game can be a movie, but we already have... Indiana Jones.
    I thought the same about Lego and Minecraft; Lego came first and was a fun building toy. Minecraft I think essentially started with the same objective, to be a fun building toy, but in the digital realm rather than the real world. But then, Lego and Minecraft partnered to bring the digital building toy into the real world, but we already have... Lego. And given Lego's propensity to foray into video games with it's properties, it isn't difficult to imagine a Lego Minecraft Video Game... the toy that became a digital game that became a physical toy that will become a digital game... And will there be an Uncharted: The Film: The Game? Not outside the realm of possibility.
    Why do they do this? :( A term should be coined for a concept that keeps folding over onto itself like this.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    This is a weird thought that just jumped into my head while reading about the new Uncharted film coming out. There must be a term for when a property, or an idea, folds back onto itself repeatedly; like first there was Indiana Jones, and then they made a video game franchise likely inspired by Indiana Jones called Uncharted (which may have been called such because of licensing issues) so that Indiana Jones could be a video game. But now they're making an Uncharted Movie so that the the Indiana Jones video game can be a movie, but we already have... Indiana Jones.
    I thought the same about Lego and Minecraft; Lego came first and was a fun building toy. Minecraft I think essentially started with the same objective, to be a fun building toy, but in the digital realm rather than the real world. But then, Lego and Minecraft partnered to bring the digital building toy into the real world, but we already have... Lego. And given Lego's propensity to foray into video games with it's properties, it isn't difficult to imagine a Lego Minecraft Video Game... the toy that became a digital game that became a physical toy that will become a digital game... And will there be an Uncharted: The Film: The Game? Not outside the realm of possibility.
    Why do they do this? :( A term should be coined for a concept that keeps folding over onto itself like this.

    As a fan of the Uncharted games (the ending of Uncharted 4 was simply... perfection), I don't see the point in an Uncharted film. With the games, we are in control of that jump, swing, or decison to leap out of cover. If it were a separate entity not called Uncharted, it was be fine. But as it is, it just seems a bit pointless.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,546
    This is a weird thought that just jumped into my head while reading about the new Uncharted film coming out. There must be a term for when a property, or an idea, folds back onto itself repeatedly; like first there was Indiana Jones, and then they made a video game franchise likely inspired by Indiana Jones called Uncharted (which may have been called such because of licensing issues) so that Indiana Jones could be a video game. But now they're making an Uncharted Movie so that the the Indiana Jones video game can be a movie, but we already have... Indiana Jones.
    I thought the same about Lego and Minecraft; Lego came first and was a fun building toy. Minecraft I think essentially started with the same objective, to be a fun building toy, but in the digital realm rather than the real world. But then, Lego and Minecraft partnered to bring the digital building toy into the real world, but we already have... Lego. And given Lego's propensity to foray into video games with it's properties, it isn't difficult to imagine a Lego Minecraft Video Game... the toy that became a digital game that became a physical toy that will become a digital game... And will there be an Uncharted: The Film: The Game? Not outside the realm of possibility.
    Why do they do this? :( A term should be coined for a concept that keeps folding over onto itself like this.

    As a fan of the Uncharted games (the ending of Uncharted 4 was simply... perfection), I don't see the point in an Uncharted film. With the games, we are in control of that jump, swing, or decison to leap out of cover. If it were a separate entity not called Uncharted, it was be fine. But as it is, it just seems a bit pointless.

    Like Indiana Jones, for example. ;)
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    edited February 2021 Posts: 4,603
    I could go either way with an Uncharted movie, but Laura Bailey needs a cameo, as she is so much fun. I am also kind sick of seeing Tom Holland in half the movies out there now. He's risking overexposure, kind of like Chris Pratt. Mark Wahlberg isn't too far behind, he's not much of an actor, outside of angry and confused.

    https://screenrant.com/uncharted-indiana-jones-james-bond-tom-holland-comparison/
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    edited February 2021 Posts: 1,351
    This is a weird thought that just jumped into my head while reading about the new Uncharted film coming out. There must be a term for when a property, or an idea, folds back onto itself repeatedly; like first there was Indiana Jones, and then they made a video game franchise likely inspired by Indiana Jones called Uncharted (which may have been called such because of licensing issues) so that Indiana Jones could be a video game. But now they're making an Uncharted Movie so that the the Indiana Jones video game can be a movie, but we already have... Indiana Jones.
    I thought the same about Lego and Minecraft; Lego came first and was a fun building toy. Minecraft I think essentially started with the same objective, to be a fun building toy, but in the digital realm rather than the real world. But then, Lego and Minecraft partnered to bring the digital building toy into the real world, but we already have... Lego. And given Lego's propensity to foray into video games with it's properties, it isn't difficult to imagine a Lego Minecraft Video Game... the toy that became a digital game that became a physical toy that will become a digital game... And will there be an Uncharted: The Film: The Game? Not outside the realm of possibility.
    Why do they do this? :( A term should be coined for a concept that keeps folding over onto itself like this.

    And just a few months after the film of the games inspired by the original films has finished shooting, they announce a game based directly on the films the other games where inspired by! And they will 100% take inspiration from the games that were inspired by the films the game is based on.

    https://variety.com/2021/gaming/news/indiana-jones-video-game-1234883478/#!

    Oh and the films all of this is based on? Those were inspired by Bond(https://screenrant.com/indiana-jones-james-bond-movies-story-characters-copy/), but then the original Bond actor, shows up as the father of the hero of the new series. The film one of the creators of Indiana Jones came off of in turn of course heavily influenced Moonraker and so on and so forth.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited February 2021 Posts: 7,546
    A never ending cycle, and true that it all comes back to Bond! I was thinking about mentioning that, but my post was already too rambly.
    Splinter Cell also began its life as a Bond game I believe, I wonder if there will ever be a Splinter Cell movie. :P
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited February 2021 Posts: 24,157
    A never ending cycle, and true that it all comes back to Bond! I was thinking about mentioning that, but my post was already too rambly.
    Splinter Cell also began its life as a Bond game I believe, I wonder if there will ever be a Splinter Cell movie. :P

    That would be pretty boring. Two hours of a guy hiding in the shadows, patiently waiting for a chance to strike. ;-) But hey, perhaps Uwe Boll can shove some topless women in there, along with zombies and cheap dragon effects that are still on his hard drive from his IN THE NAME OF THE KING sequel days. Just saying. ;-)
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