Controversial opinions about other movies

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  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,634
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    Batman 89 rules, undoubtedly.
    I'm also with you on that. Im even tempted to say that I enjoyed the two Tim Burton Batmans more than those that Nolan made.

    It’s hard for me to get into Batman Returns at times. It is WAY too Tim Burton for it’s own good.

    Agreed. I actively struggle with that film. I want to like it, and bits and pieces of it are absolutely positively awesome, but it's too "oblique" for its own good, too "Caligari", too "Burton". It's a carnavalesque, surreal experience that punishes the Batman fan in me. For all its craziness, Batman Forever is a more even and, dare I say, more "Batman-y" film than Returns. That is my opinion now. It used to be different. 😉

    I agree. The Penguin is one of my least favorite villains when it comes to media adaptations with the character. My favorite version is Burgess Meredith’s 66 version, believe it or not. The character feels right compared to other versions. Meanwhile, my least favorite version of Penguin is The Animated Series version. For all the things TAS got right in the Batman universe, they never got The Penguin quite right, like the other villains. Particularly storylines and voice.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    There are more or less three main versions of The Penguin for me: the cunning but otherwise normal businessman, the physically or verbally more extravagant crime boss, and the animal. The latter, like DeVito, is my least favourite version. The middle version, like Meredith, Farell and the Penguin from the Arkham video games, is my favourite. The normal man, like the Penguin from several animated series, is a little boring but at least those series manage to tell interesting stories with him if not about him. And the comics offer plenty varieties of the Penguin, some awesome, some less so. All depends on what the stories do with him in that case. The Penguin can be an interesting character, but also an underserved character.
  • Posts: 15,123
    cooperman2 wrote: »
    The problem with TDK for me is that there's too much going on. The story of Batman versus Joker would have made a great film. The story of Harvey Dent becoming Two Face would have been a great film. Unfortunately they tried to shoehorn both stories into one over stuffed movie. And while all the attention was on Health Ledger's admittedly brilliant turn as The Joker, Arron Eckhart's equally great performance as Dent/Two Face was somewhat overlooked

    I agree that Eckhart's brilliant performance as Dent / Two Face was overlooked (and it's absolutely insane that they killed him right away), but I do think the stories of TDK weave into eachother really well. Personally I didn't feel like there was too much going on, it all played into itself well I thought.

    I always thought Two Face would show up later on, in the next film, being captured in Arkham for a while as a secret inmate or something. I always thought he could not have died from that fall.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited November 2022 Posts: 7,551
    Ludovico wrote: »
    cooperman2 wrote: »
    The problem with TDK for me is that there's too much going on. The story of Batman versus Joker would have made a great film. The story of Harvey Dent becoming Two Face would have been a great film. Unfortunately they tried to shoehorn both stories into one over stuffed movie. And while all the attention was on Health Ledger's admittedly brilliant turn as The Joker, Arron Eckhart's equally great performance as Dent/Two Face was somewhat overlooked

    I agree that Eckhart's brilliant performance as Dent / Two Face was overlooked (and it's absolutely insane that they killed him right away), but I do think the stories of TDK weave into eachother really well. Personally I didn't feel like there was too much going on, it all played into itself well I thought.

    I always thought Two Face would show up later on, in the next film, being captured in Arkham for a while as a secret inmate or something. I always thought he could not have died from that fall.

    I always thought he would have been brilliant doling out "justice" in TDKR, instead of Scarecrow.
    "Death... or exile?" *flips coin* "...Death..."
    Two Face helming a depraved courtroom would have been much more poetic too.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,134
    I like TDK but bever considered it the masterpiece that many claim it to be.

    I actually enjoy BB and Batman Returns better. But that’s besides the point, not quite the superhero fan anyway. The only one I love is The Rocketeer.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    I like TDK but bever considered it the masterpiece that many claim it to be.

    I actually enjoy BB and Batman Returns better. But that’s besides the point, not quite the superhero fan anyway. The only one I love is The Rocketeer.

    Neville Sinclair approves.

    😉
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,040
    What's The Rocketeer? Who's Neville Sinclair? I know I could google it, but haven't felt like it, nor have I heard of either. And you probably won't have to answer these questions, because I most likely may not really care...
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited November 2022 Posts: 24,183
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    What's The Rocketeer? Who's Neville Sinclair? I know I could google it, but haven't felt like it, nor have I heard of either. And you probably won't have to answer these questions, because I most likely may not really care...

    The Rocketeer is a comic book character whose adventures were adapted into a 1991 film that stars, among others, Bill Campbell, the lovely Jennifer Connelly, Alan Arkin, and Paul Sorvino. Neville Sinclair is a, let's say 'very important' character in the film, played by this handsome Clark Gable lookalike called Timothy Dalton.

    DCi3ukjXkAUtprI.jpg

    I was just the right age when the film was released to fully enjoy it -- not even ten, but old enough to recognise that "James Bond was in it", that Jennifer Connelly was (and still is) an insanely beautiful appearance, and that James Horner's hummable score would remain an earworm forever. It's also one of the few "superhero" films that are period pieces and that try to be their own thing. I watched the film again very recently and to me at least, it has lost nothing of its charm.

    I'm not sure if you care, @j_w_pepper, but you might want to give it a try. It plays during WWII, and it has the charm of an old adventure flick combined with some of the best stuff that live-action Disney films had to offer back then.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,040
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I'm not sure if you care, @j_w_pepper, but you might want to give it a try. It plays during WWII, and it has the charm of an old adventure flick combined with some of the best stuff that live-action Disney films had to offer back then.
    OK, thanks for the enlightenment, @DarthDimi. Never heard of that before and may check it further some time.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,134
    Tim is excellent in it, quite the charmer ;)
  • Posts: 16,167
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    I like TDK but bever considered it the masterpiece that many claim it to be.

    I actually enjoy BB and Batman Returns better. But that’s besides the point, not quite the superhero fan anyway. The only one I love is The Rocketeer.

    A Bond fan and Rocketeer fan. I must say you have superb taste.
    I saw THE ROCKETEER several times summer of 91 and absolutely loved it. I had been getting into the classic gangster, adventure and noir films of the 30's and 40's and this movie really hit the spot.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,187
    THE ROCKETEER gives you a good idea of how Dalton would have been like as Bond if he played up the Cinematic Bond, rather than go back to Fleming. His charm and suaveness is shot up to 210% in comparison, he really looks like he’s having a blast in the film.
  • Posts: 7,429
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    I like TDK but bever considered it the masterpiece that many claim it to be.

    I actually enjoy BB and Batman Returns better. But that’s besides the point, not quite the superhero fan anyway. The only one I love is The Rocketeer.

    A Bond fan and Rocketeer fan. I must say you have superb taste.
    I saw THE ROCKETEER several times summer of 91 and absolutely loved it. I had been getting into the classic gangster, adventure and noir films of the 30's and 40's and this movie really hit the spot.

    Love 'The Rocketeer', severely underrated! Our Tim is marvellous in it, and Jennifer Connelly is drop dead gorgeous! Great action, well directed, hummable main theme, it even has a cool animation scene!
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    I like TDK but bever considered it the masterpiece that many claim it to be.

    I actually enjoy BB and Batman Returns better. But that’s besides the point, not quite the superhero fan anyway. The only one I love is The Rocketeer.

    A Bond fan and Rocketeer fan. I must say you have superb taste.
    I saw THE ROCKETEER several times summer of 91 and absolutely loved it. I had been getting into the classic gangster, adventure and noir films of the 30's and 40's and this movie really hit the spot.

    Love 'The Rocketeer', severely underrated! Our Tim is marvellous in it, and Jennifer Connelly is drop dead gorgeous! Great action, well directed, hummable main theme, it even has a cool animation scene!

    Jennifer Connelly should have been a Bond girl in the Brosnan era. Or in the Craig era. I saw her recently in Maverick; she's still a looker!
  • Posts: 15,123
    Ludovico wrote: »
    cooperman2 wrote: »
    The problem with TDK for me is that there's too much going on. The story of Batman versus Joker would have made a great film. The story of Harvey Dent becoming Two Face would have been a great film. Unfortunately they tried to shoehorn both stories into one over stuffed movie. And while all the attention was on Health Ledger's admittedly brilliant turn as The Joker, Arron Eckhart's equally great performance as Dent/Two Face was somewhat overlooked

    I agree that Eckhart's brilliant performance as Dent / Two Face was overlooked (and it's absolutely insane that they killed him right away), but I do think the stories of TDK weave into eachother really well. Personally I didn't feel like there was too much going on, it all played into itself well I thought.

    I always thought Two Face would show up later on, in the next film, being captured in Arkham for a while as a secret inmate or something. I always thought he could not have died from that fall.

    I always thought he would have been brilliant doling out "justice" in TDKR, instead of Scarecrow.
    "Death... or exile?" *flips coin* "...Death..."
    Two Face helming a depraved courtroom would have been much more poetic too.

    It would have been far more in character too. Scarecrow as a judge I don't see it, but Two Face, completely indifferent to the destruction of Gotham and its inhabitants? Yes, makes perfect sense after the events of TDK.

    @DarthDimi I always thought Nevill Sinclair was a thinly disguised Erroll Flynn.
  • Posts: 7,429
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    I like TDK but bever considered it the masterpiece that many claim it to be.

    I actually enjoy BB and Batman Returns better. But that’s besides the point, not quite the superhero fan anyway. The only one I love is The Rocketeer.

    A Bond fan and Rocketeer fan. I must say you have superb taste.
    I saw THE ROCKETEER several times summer of 91 and absolutely loved it. I had been getting into the classic gangster, adventure and noir films of the 30's and 40's and this movie really hit the spot.

    Love 'The Rocketeer', severely underrated! Our Tim is marvellous in it, and Jennifer Connelly is drop dead gorgeous! Great action, well directed, hummable main theme, it even has a cool animation scene!

    Jennifer Connelly should have been a Bond girl in the Brosnan era. Or in the Craig era. I saw her recently in Maverick; she's still a looker!

    She has slimmed down a lot though!
    Watch her in her brief but memorable role in 'Mulholland Falls'!
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,134
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    I like TDK but bever considered it the masterpiece that many claim it to be.

    I actually enjoy BB and Batman Returns better. But that’s besides the point, not quite the superhero fan anyway. The only one I love is The Rocketeer.

    A Bond fan and Rocketeer fan. I must say you have superb taste.

    Thank you, Sir! :)
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited November 2022 Posts: 24,183
    A controversial opinion: I actually think Superman Returns is a good film. It's a far better film than S3 and Q4P in my opinion. It is in my top 3:
    1) STM
    2) MOS
    3) SR
    Yes, that means what it means: S2 is not my favourite nor second favourite Superman film.
  • Posts: 16,167
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    A controversial opinion: I actually think Superman Returns is a good film. It's a far better film than S3 and Q4P in my opinion. It is in my top 3:
    1) STM
    2) MOS
    3) SR
    Yes, that means what it means: S2 is not my favourite nor second favourite Superman film.

    I'll always love the Reeve Superman movies, but SUPERMAN II hasn't been holding up for me lately. Perhaps a different transfer would help? I've been watching the old DVD edition for years now and the colors just don't do it fo rme.
    Right now my favorite Superman movie is SUPERMAN AND THE MOLE MEN.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    @ToTheRight
    SATMM... Ah yes. I've seen that one a few times. 😄 It is in the Superman BR box. But if that one counts, I will include the old Fleisher and Famous Studios cartoons. I like those very much!

  • Posts: 16,167
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    @ToTheRight
    SATMM... Ah yes. I've seen that one a few times. 😄 It is in the Superman BR box. But if that one counts, I will include the old Fleisher and Famous Studios cartoons. I like those very much!

    Certainly! Those cartoons were great. I believe the new SUPERMAN AND LOIS series paid homage with the classic Fleisher costume in one episode.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,134
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    A controversial opinion: I actually think Superman Returns is a good film. It's a far better film than S3 and Q4P in my opinion. It is in my top 3:
    1) STM
    2) MOS
    3) SR
    Yes, that means what it means: S2 is not my favourite nor second favourite Superman film.

    I’d even go one step further, Superman Returns is the only Superman film I actually ever enjoyed.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,187
    SUPERMAN RETURNS has to be high up there with films I had the biggest anticipation for. I had always liked Superman, but it reached its peak in the early to mid-2000s. Part of it was revisiting 1978 film on DVD. I was regularly watching SMALLVILLE. I picked up John Byrne’s run from my book store. I was PRIMED for a new Superman film.

    But this is one of the few movies that I wanted to like more than I actually did. It took a long time for me to process and accept the fact that I was actually disappointed in it. I watched it in theaters three times, with the latter two thinking I’ll like it more than my previous viewings. I played the DVD countless times at home. This is the movie to me what THE PHANTOM MENACE was to the many STAR WARS fans in 1999 that tried to convince themselves that it’s good.

    To be fair, I don’t think it’s actually bad. But I do think it’s a movie where its reach exceeds its grasp. I think Bryan Singer is not only too attached to the original Donner film, but ironically he didn’t seem to understand what made that movie work either. It’s too glum. Brandon Routh was great casting, but I don’t think the movie uses him effectively. He feels like a he’s part of an ensemble rather than the leading part, due to so much focus on other characters.

    I could write so much of what SUPERMAN RETURNS got wrong, but it would be endless. To be clear, I don’t hate the movie. That’s reserved for MAN OF STEEL.
  • edited November 2022 Posts: 16,167
    As lackluster as they are, I have more fun with III and IV than either RETURNS or MAN OF STEEL.
    MAN OF STEEL actually ended my lifelong reign of going to see new movies (unless it's Bond).
    STM had begun it. The irony.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited November 2022 Posts: 24,183
    I am always baffled by the negative responses to MOS. I really love that film. I think it's one of the best Superman stories we've ever had, with Cavill a great actor in the role. Funny how differently films can play for many folks. ;-)
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,634
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I am always baffled by the negative responses to MOS. I really love that film. I think it's one of the best Superman stories we've ever had, with Cavill a great actor in the role. Funny how differently films can play for many folks. ;-)

    Here’s one thing I’ve noticed about Zack Snyder movies: people really love or really hate them.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I am always baffled by the negative responses to MOS. I really love that film. I think it's one of the best Superman stories we've ever had, with Cavill a great actor in the role. Funny how differently films can play for many folks. ;-)

    Here’s one thing I’ve noticed about Zack Snyder movies: people really love or really hate them.

    Indeed, there is no grey area with these. I am definitely pro-Zack. (Sounds like Prozac when you read that out loud -- not sure if that's a good or a bad thing. :( ) In fact, the only thing that stood in my way of being a complete fan was JL 2016. But that issue resolved itself when I realised how little Snyder had been involved in that film, and when we got our hands on the Snyder Cut, a film I cannot give enough praise.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,551
    Loved MOS.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,187
    MOS is yet another example of me trying to like a movie as much as I can in spite of its very apparent shortcomings, and then BVS kind of ruined it all for me.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited November 2022 Posts: 7,551
    Yeah, can't say much for any other DCEU film. MOS was great though.

    Cavill is a great Superman, glad he's back, and I liked Affleck's Batman as well. Seemed like he got the short end of the stick.
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