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How many Bond films should have Timothy Dalton done, and what titles would they be?

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  • TR007TR007
    Posts: 1,165
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    Cubby was not convinced about Brossa.

    I'm sorry, what? Where did this come from? Utter nonsense.

    Back to topic though, I would have loved to have seen at the very least a third Dalton movie. It would be very curious to see what direction they'd take his version of the character after LTK.
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,534
    TR007 wrote: »
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    Cubby was not convinced about Brossa.

    I'm sorry, what? Where did this come from? Utter nonsense.

    Back to topic though, I would have loved to have seen at the very least a third Dalton movie. It would be very curious to see what direction they'd take his version of the character after LTK.

    There's a section in Some Kind Of Hero that sheds some light on that. Some of it sounds really good. Some not so much.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    Dalton is the rare Bond actor who nailed the role in his first film. Craig is the other.
  • Some_Kind_Of_HeroSome_Kind_Of_Hero
    Posts: 6,844
    I would say Dalton did not nail Bond in his first film any more than Brosnan or Craig did. All three had off moments as well as strong moments in their first outings.

    Sean, yes. Roger, yes. And controversially, George, yes, for me too.
  • TorgeirtrapTorgeirtrap
    edited December 2017 Posts: 17,757
    Think you could make a case for Dalton starring in any of the eighties films, and beyond those as well. For me, I think AVTAK could have been a good one for Dalton – if the final result had been more serious in tone. That makes three including the two he did. Would I have wanted him for GE? I don't know. Had the years between LTK and GE worked out differently, there could have been room for one – maybe two films. That makes it four, with the possibility of five.

    With two Bond films that "never was", one would imagine them using a few unused Fleming titles, such as Risico or Property of a Lady. Could have been a nice addition to AVTAK, TLD and LTK, this.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    Realisitically, I could see him sticking around for 4 and no more. In my dream timeline, Dalton makes 6 in total: The Living Daylights (1987), Licence To Kill (1989), The Property Of A Lady (1992), Casino Royale (1994), Tomorrow Never Dies (1996) & Zero Minus Ten (1998). 6 films before handing the role over to James Purefoy.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,136
    Dalton is my favourite Bond but I also happen to love AVTAK and GE the way they are, so my solution would be:

    1991: The Property of a Lady
    1993: Risico

    Now we are at it, I’d also have liked George to have done DAF.
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    edited December 2017 Posts: 4,520
    1992 or half way 1993.

    Then Brosnan Twine can have been Bond 20 and Daniel Craig in Risico in 2003.
    With Barbara already have her first eye on Daniel in 1998

    Pssible les preasure to make Bond 21 for 2003. 4 years after Twine and 3 before CR. There also can have consider to release CR in 2007 and then QOS in 2009.

    Brosnan 4th be 20th movie and Anniversary and death of Dana Broccoli in 2004 at some preasure on them. Whyle i think less preasure on QOS mabey can have been a risk the movie will les good with to much time. I like it there must inprovise more. Mabey i have delay it for a couple months in 2009.

    In 11 years (2008 - 2019) there make only 3 movies with SF, SP and Bond 25.
    Whyle Brosnan made 4 in 8 years, he can have got five in 10 (2004) years. The Daniel Craig era need 3 extra years.
  • Escalus5Escalus5
    Posts: 628
    1991 - THE FINGER ON THE TRIGGER, from the William Osborne/William Davies script (which was simply called "Bond 17")

    1993 - MONDAYS ARE HELL, a more faithful adaptation of Moonraker using one of Fleming's original titles

    1995 - REUNION WITH DEATH, written by Richard Smith and based on his treatment (see new issue of MI6 Confidential)

    1997 - GOLDENEYE, using a more polished version of the Michael France script and co-starring Anthony Hopkins (as Trevelyan) and John Rhys-Davies
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    Should have started sooner and finished later doing as many films as possible in that time. I really like Pierce and Roger but honestly, I'd happily sacrifice both of them to have Dalton from 1973-2002 (he was probably too young to have taken over before then).
  • RevelatorRevelator
    Posts: 2,918
    It's a bitter irony that the Bond actor who who had the deepest personal attachment to Casino Royale, and even based his performances on it, never had the chance to star in a film of the book. Of course by the time EON recovered the rights Dalton would have been too old, but one can only imagine the "what if?" scenarios.

    Dalton's first film really should have been A View to a Kill, which was intended to attract younger audiences, though it would have needed a considerable rewrite to suit him. And after LTK he would have been good for three more films, assuming they were two years apart. Unfortunately Dalton was a case of an actor ahead of his time--had he been born a few decades later he'd be a perfect successor to Craig.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited December 2017 Posts: 7,136
    Revelator wrote: »
    It's a bitter irony that the Bond actor who who had the deepest personal attachment to Casino Royale, and even based his performances on it, never had the chance to star in a film of the book. Of course by the time EON recovered the rights Dalton would have been too old, but one can only imagine the "what if?" scenarios.

    Dalton's first film really should have been A View to a Kill, which was intended to attract younger audiences, though it would have needed a considerable rewrite to suit him. And after LTK he would have been good for three more films, assuming they were two years apart. Unfortunately Dalton was a case of an actor ahead of his time--had he been born a few decades later he'd be a perfect successor to Craig.

    Or even better. Had Dalton been born a few decades later he could have been Brosnan's successor, instead of the other way around, in a faithful adaption of CR.

    With Jack Wade being replaced by Felix Leiter in GE and TND and a LTK that would come after CR we would have had the perfect material for Dalton in a time where character driven action pictures were more in vogue.
  • ToTheRightToTheRight
    Posts: 16,169
    I have to say I love this thread. Some great Dalton love and speculative titles here.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    thelivingroyale wrote: »
    Should have started sooner and finished later doing as many films as possible in that time. I really like Pierce and Roger but honestly, I'd happily sacrifice both of them to have Dalton from 1973-2002 (he was probably too young to have taken over before then).

    Can’t see he’d have lasted beyond a few films, personally. Contrary to the belief that Dalton stepped down, it was in fact UA/MGM who essentially gave him the push. Cubby (and B&M) fought his corner, but they yielded to studio pressure, which suggests there was certainly a nagging doubt for them also. Gracefully, they allowed Tim to ‘officially’ step down.

    If you look at the progression of mainstream cinema from 1973 onwards, I find it difficult to see a ‘moment’ where Dalton would have truly satisfied all parties,
  • Mathis1Mathis1
    Posts: 7,434
    TR007 wrote: »
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    Cubby was not convinced about Brossa.

    I'm sorry, what? Where did this come from? Utter nonsense.

    Back to topic though, I would have loved to have seen at the very least a third Dalton movie. It would be very curious to see what direction they'd take his version of the character after LTK.

    Not nonsense at all. From John Glens book
    'For My Eyes Only'
    "I asked Cubby if he considered Pierce Brosnan.......Cubby pondered the suggestion for a while, but he wasn't crazy about the idea.
    Cubby eventually came round"
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Dalton should have done at least one more. He had a great debut, but it should have come earlier. Or he should have done that TB remake Mc Clory fantasized about.
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    TR007 wrote: »
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    Cubby was not convinced about Brossa.

    I'm sorry, what? Where did this come from? Utter nonsense.

    Back to topic though, I would have loved to have seen at the very least a third Dalton movie. It would be very curious to see what direction they'd take his version of the character after LTK.

    Not nonsense at all. From John Glens book
    'For My Eyes Only'
    "I asked Cubby if he considered Pierce Brosnan.......Cubby pondered the suggestion for a while, but he wasn't crazy about the idea.
    Cubby eventually came round"

    Barbara said in the EON doc that casting Brosnan was the last big decision Cubby made and that he was very pleased. So he must have been happy with him in the end. At the end of the day none of us were there, but I doubt Brosnan would have got the role twice if Cubby wasn't sure about him.
    RC7 wrote: »
    thelivingroyale wrote: »
    Should have started sooner and finished later doing as many films as possible in that time. I really like Pierce and Roger but honestly, I'd happily sacrifice both of them to have Dalton from 1973-2002 (he was probably too young to have taken over before then).

    Can’t see he’d have lasted beyond a few films, personally. Contrary to the belief that Dalton stepped down, it was in fact UA/MGM who essentially gave him the push. Cubby (and B&M) fought his corner, but they yielded to studio pressure, which suggests there was certainly a nagging doubt for them also. Gracefully, they allowed Tim to ‘officially’ step down.

    If you look at the progression of mainstream cinema from 1973 onwards, I find it difficult to see a ‘moment’ where Dalton would have truly satisfied all parties,

    Oh yeah don't get me wrong I wasn't saying that'd be viable. I think Brosnan's popularity really helped put Bond back on the map after the long gap, and Roger pretty much saved the franchise with the way he reinvented it and moved it out of Connery's shadow. I was just on about what I'd have liked personally, because Dalton is my favourite Bond and I'd have him circa 87-89 in every Bond film if it were possible.
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    Would have loved to see Dalts in 4 or 5. He never got to make his “third” which is often such a defining moment for Bond actors when they put out a defining movie for their era. He will always be a nearly Bond in the eyes of the public. A real shame
  • DeathToSpies84DeathToSpies84 Newton-le-Willows, England
    edited November 2020 Posts: 257
    Had it not been for the lawsuit and legal issues, I think Dalton should of done at least 2 more after Licence to Kill in the early 90’s. If I were to update my post from the Your Ultimate Bond Timeline discussion, I’d go with one of these 3 scenarios.

    Scenario 1:

    A View To a Kill - 1985
    The Living Daylights - 1987
    Licence to Kill - 1989
    Risico - 1991

    Scenario 2:

    A View to a Kill - 1985
    The Living Daylights - 1987
    Licence to Kill - 1989
    The Property of a Lady - 1991 - Robot schtick toned down considerably.
    Risico - 1993

    Scenario 3:

    The Living Daylights - 1987
    Licence to Kill - 1989
    The Property of a Lady - 1991
    Icebreaker - 1993

    Scenario 4:

    The Living Daylights - 1987
    Licence to Kill - 1989
    Brokenclaw - 1991
    Colonel Sun - 1993

    That way, Brosnan would still start with GoldenEye. Dalton, on the other hand, would get a respectable legacy. What could of been, eh?
  • Mathis1Mathis1
    Posts: 7,434
    DeathToSpies84 wrote: »
    Had it not been for the lawsuit and legal issues, I think Dalton should of done at least 2 more after Licence to Kill in the early 90’s. If I were to update my post from the Your Ultimate Bond Timeline discussion, I’d go with one of these 3 scenarios.

    Scenario 1:

    A View To a Kill - 1985
    The Living Daylights - 1987
    Licence to Kill - 1989
    Risico - 1991

    Scenario 2:

    A View to a Kill - 1985
    The Living Daylights - 1987
    Licence to Kill - 1989
    The Property of a Lady - 1991 - Robot schtick toned down considerably.
    Risico - 1993

    Scenario 3:

    The Living Daylights - 1987
    Licence to Kill - 1989
    The Property of a Lady - 1991
    Icebreaker - 1993

    Scenario 4:

    The Living Daylights - 1987
    Licence to Kill - 1989
    Brokenclaw - 1991
    Colonel Sun - 1993

    That way, Brosnan would still start with GoldenEye. Dalton, on the other hand, would get a respectable legacy. What could of been, eh?

    I would go with Scenario 3 but change Icebreaker to Risico!
  • DeathToSpies84DeathToSpies84 Newton-le-Willows, England
    Posts: 257
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    DeathToSpies84 wrote: »
    Had it not been for the lawsuit and legal issues, I think Dalton should of done at least 2 more after Licence to Kill in the early 90’s. If I were to update my post from the Your Ultimate Bond Timeline discussion, I’d go with one of these 3 scenarios.

    Scenario 1:

    A View To a Kill - 1985
    The Living Daylights - 1987
    Licence to Kill - 1989
    Risico - 1991

    Scenario 2:

    A View to a Kill - 1985
    The Living Daylights - 1987
    Licence to Kill - 1989
    The Property of a Lady - 1991 - Robot schtick toned down considerably.
    Risico - 1993

    Scenario 3:

    The Living Daylights - 1987
    Licence to Kill - 1989
    The Property of a Lady - 1991
    Icebreaker - 1993

    Scenario 4:

    The Living Daylights - 1987
    Licence to Kill - 1989
    Brokenclaw - 1991
    Colonel Sun - 1993

    That way, Brosnan would still start with GoldenEye. Dalton, on the other hand, would get a respectable legacy. What could of been, eh?

    I would go with Scenario 3 but change Icebreaker to Risico!

    Thanks :) I think 91 and 93 would of been Dalton’s last two if things had turned out differently.
  • George_KaplanGeorge_Kaplan Being chauffeured by Tibbett
    edited November 2020 Posts: 685
    Three would've been fine, four at most. I quite like that Dalton is the forgotten Bond that only the aficionados appreciate. One more film would've hopefully cemented his Bond legacy.

    I remember someone made a great fake trailer for Dalton's third film using footage from Lynda La Plante's Framed (with Dalton) and Ridley Scott's Black Rain, set to some non-Bond John Barry music. It was called My Enemy's Enemy, which I believe was in one of Fleming's notebooks as a possible future novel title. I'm not sure who made it but it was really well done and it matched the dark and grim tone of LTK.
  • Herr_StockmannHerr_Stockmann
    edited November 2020 Posts: 910
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    According to John Glen, he reckoned 'Risico' was going to be the next one with Dalton after LTK until the big delay with the court case!

    Actually, "Risico" was mentioned for Bond 16, which would ultimately become Licence to Kill, during its pre-production, and not for Bond 17.
    George_Kaplan wrote: »
    I remember someone made a great fake trailer for Dalton's third film using footage from Lynda La Plante's Framed (with Dalton) and Ridley Scott's Black Rain, set to some non-Bond John Barry music. It was called My Enemy's Enemy, which I believe was in one of Fleming's notebooks as a possible future novel title. I'm not sure who made it but it was really well done and it matched the dark and grim tone of LTK.

    Indeed, the following Bond 17 fan trailer was quit fantastic. It was @Milovy who was behind it. Here's how he described the story he imagined:
    Milovy wrote: »
    In my mind, the basic plot is that a mission goes wrong in Japan and Bond is captured, then finds an unexpected ally in an American woman played by Andrea Parker (probably not an agent, as Pam was an American agent in LTK). I'm not sure who would play the villain. John Lone perhaps?



    Personally, I would also have liked to see Dalton make three, maximum four, appearances as Bond. The ideal arrangement would have been to see him make his debut in 1985. From there he could star two more installments, in 1987 and 1989, and hypothetically a final one in 1991, before MGM's legal issues arose. I would also have liked to see a change in the creative team with a new filmmaker (John McTiernan or Ted Kotcheff maybe) and a new director of photography (Jan de Bont) for this Dalton era.

    My fantasized lineup would be the following:

    THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS (1985)
    LICENCE REVOKED (1987)

    A WHISPER OF HATE (1989) - A more classic mission for Bond who travels to Tokyo and then Hong Kong, trying to prevent Han Liang-tan, a renegade Chinese colonel helped by the Japanese criminal underworld, to carry out a coup in mainland China.
    NOTHING LASTS FOREVER (1991) - Beginning to think he's becoming too old, Bond tracks down a former British diplomat who defected to the East a decade earlier and who is now trying to take advantage of the dissolution of the USSR to sell all the information he collected for the past years.
  • George_KaplanGeorge_Kaplan Being chauffeured by Tibbett
    Posts: 685
    It strikes me that the direction they were planning on going in, that was revealed in Some Kind of Hero in the chapter on Bond 17, was quite similar to what they've now done in the recent Craig films. Bond 17 may have ended up being Dalton's SF, with an ageing Bond being forced to contend with modern technology and a changing political landscape, which would've fit perfectly with Dalton's characterisation of Bond as "a burned-out killer who may have just enough energy left for one final mission."

    They could've even used the Oriental setting to do a faithful adaptation of the Garden of Death and Bond's amnesia in YOLT. Then, if Dalton stayed on, they could've started the next film with the brainwashed Bond returning to London, attempting to kill M, and then being sent off to prove himself useful again. Obviously this sounds horribly cliché now because they've basically done this with the Craig era, but in the early 90s, I think it would've been quite exciting and different.
  • DeathToSpies84DeathToSpies84 Newton-le-Willows, England
    Posts: 257
    Herr_Stockmann wrote: »
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    According to John Glen, he reckoned 'Risico' was going to be the next one with Dalton after LTK until the big delay with the court case!

    Actually, "Risico" was mentioned for Bond 16, which would ultimately become Licence to Kill, during its pre-production, and not for Bond 17.
    George_Kaplan wrote: »
    I remember someone made a great fake trailer for Dalton's third film using footage from Lynda La Plante's Framed (with Dalton) and Ridley Scott's Black Rain, set to some non-Bond John Barry music. It was called My Enemy's Enemy, which I believe was in one of Fleming's notebooks as a possible future novel title. I'm not sure who made it but it was really well done and it matched the dark and grim tone of LTK.

    Indeed, the following Bond 17 fan trailer was quit fantastic. It was @Milovy who was behind it. Here's how he described the story he imagined:
    Milovy wrote: »
    In my mind, the basic plot is that a mission goes wrong in Japan and Bond is captured, then finds an unexpected ally in an American woman played by Andrea Parker (probably not an agent, as Pam was an American agent in LTK). I'm not sure who would play the villain. John Lone perhaps?



    Personally, I would also have liked to see Dalton make three, maximum four, appearances as Bond. The ideal arrangement would have been to see him make his debut in 1985. From there he could star two more installments, in 1987 and 1989, and hypothetically a final one in 1991, before MGM's legal issues arose. I would also have liked to see a change in the creative team with a new filmmaker (John McTiernan or Ted Kotcheff maybe) and a new director of photography (Jan de Bont) for this Dalton era.

    My fantasized lineup would be the following:

    THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS (1985)
    LICENCE REVOKED (1987)

    A WHISPER OF HATE (1989) - A more classic mission for Bond who travels to Tokyo and then Hong Kong, trying to prevent Han Liang-tan, a renegade Chinese colonel helped by the Japanese criminal underworld, to carry out a coup in mainland China.
    NOTHING LASTS FOREVER (1991) - Beginning to think he's becoming too old, Bond tracks down a former British diplomat who defected to the East a decade earlier and who is now trying to take advantage of the dissolution of the USSR to sell all the information he collected for the past years.

    Saw that fan created trailer on YouTube a few months back. Along with the Dalton in GoldenEye one, it’s really well edited. Good scenario for what Dalton’s resume as Bond would be as well.
  • MalloryMallory
    Posts: 2,165
    Within the existing timeline, I would have liked one in 1991/1992, then on to Goldeneye in 1995 as normal.
  • ToTheRightToTheRight
    edited November 2020 Posts: 16,169
    Here's my dream Timothy Dalton line-up.
    This, IMO is how it SHOULD have happened..................

    1. THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS (1987)
    2. LICENCE REVOKED (1989)
    3. LICENCE RENEWED (1991)
    4. THE PROPERTY OF A LADY (1993)
    5. GOLDENEYE (1995)
    6. REUNION WITH DEATH (1997)
    7. THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH (1999)
    8. RISICO (2002)- summer release
    9. FOR SPECIAL SERVICES (2003) -winter release
    10. ICEBREAKER (2004) -winter release only one year later. Fans are lead to believe Gardner adaptations will be the new norm until...................

    11. CASINO ROYALE (2006)
    12. QUANTUM OF SOLACE (2008)
    13. SKYFALL (2011)
    14. BROKENCLAW (2013)
    15. ZERO MINUS TEN (2015)
    16. DEVIL MAY CARE (2017)
    17. TRIGGER MORTIS (2019)
    18. BY ROYAL COMAND (2022)

    Dalton resigns from Bond after 35 wonderful years and 18 films in the role.
    Aidan Turner takes over in

    SHATTERHAND (2025)

  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    Posts: 554
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Here's my dream Timothy Dalton line-up.
    This, IMO is how it SHOULD have happened..................

    1. THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS (1987)
    2. LICENCE REVOKED (1989)
    3. LICENCE RENEWED (1991)
    4. THE PROPERTY OF A LADY (1993)
    5. GOLDENEYE (1995)
    6. REUNION WITH DEATH (1997)
    7. THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH (1999)
    8. RISICO (2002)- summer release
    9. FOR SPECIAL SERVICES (2003) -winter release
    10. ICEBREAKER (2004) -winter release only one year later. Fans are lead to believe Gardner adaptations will be the new norm until...................

    11. CASINO ROYALE (2006)
    12. QUANTUM OF SOLACE (2008)
    13. SKYFALL (2011)
    14. BROKENCLAW (2013)
    15. ZERO MINUS TEN (2015)
    16. DEVIL MAY CARE (2017)
    17. TRIGGER MORTIS (2019)
    18. BY ROYAL COMAND (2022)

    Dalton resigns from Bond after 35 wonderful years and 18 films in the role.
    Aidan Turner takes over in

    SHATTERHAND (2025)
    There is no way in hell Dalton could've, would've or should've been Bond in his sixties and seventies. I'd say he could just about hang on until when Brosnan left in OTL, but after that he's just too old for it.
  • MSL49MSL49 Finland
    edited November 2020 Posts: 395
    Atleast 3: Property Of A Lady being third.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    Dalton definitely should have had a third. My guess is that it would have been more in the tone of TLD.
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