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Which do you like more: The Chemistry between Brosnan & Dench or Craig & Dench?

jolearonjolearon
edited November 2011 in Actors Posts: 645
I personally liked the chemistry between Brosnan and Dench more than Craig and Dench.
Seemed as the course of the Brosnan Bond films, M started becoming more open, more of a friend, almost as family and not so cold to Bond, as in Daniel Craigs Bond films.

Not counting Skyfall: because I think this may change my opinion in this in the long run, I think there may be a great deal of trust gained my Craig's character to M in this next film, according to the plot I've ran across.

Also heres a article that made me think of this idea.
http://mi6007.com/skyfalls-judi-dench-daniels-fantastic-but-i-do-miss-pierce/

Your thoughts?
Which did you like more?
The Chemistry between Brosnan & Dench or Craig & Dench?
BTW: I don't mean romantically haha....

<b><font color=darkblue>Moved to Actors by</font></b> @DiscoVolante
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Comments

  • KerimKerim Istanbul Not Constantinople
    Posts: 2,629
    I think Craig and Dench works better. With Craig, Dench (at least she thinks) is grooming Bond's raw experience into a better developed personality. Dench's maternal instincts works with Craig's inexperienced Bond. Brosnan's Bond was already a seasoned agent. While more personable with Brosnan's Bond, she's more authoritarian with Brosnan than a mentor.
  • jolearonjolearon
    Posts: 645
    @Kerim True, I see your point.
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    Connery and Lee
    Dalton and Brown ;)

    As for the 2 you mentioned, I'd say Craig/Dench simply because Craig is 10 times the actor Brosnan is. However, I am tiring of this "James Bond and his mother" approach to the films. M needs to go back to a few office scenes, tops.
  • JWESTBROOKJWESTBROOK
    Posts: 5,745

    I am tiring of this "James Bond and his mother" approach to the films. M needs to go back to a few office scenes, tops.
    Your not going to enjoy Skyfall very much..
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    I think M's relationship with CraigBond makes the better use of Dench as an actress and fairly justifies her casting. Sure, I do prefer the approach of M briefing Bond and letting him get on with it but the chemistry between Dench and Craig allows for better acting, character development and ironically enough better tension between 2 characters that has been stronger than any tension between characters throughout the Brosnan era.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited November 2011 Posts: 15,718
    Sorry but Craig and Dench simply don't work together. With Craig having a problem with authority, and M constantly having to psycho-babble him and put him back on track, Dench simply doesn't impose physically next to Craig. Craig needed a Bernard Lee no-nonsense M to face his rugged behavior. Dench worked with Brosnan because they trust each other - love the shot of Brosnan and Dench walking next to each other in TWINE, like 2 collegues that fully respect each other.

    No, but Dench simply doesn't fit with Craig Bond. We needed someone with some kind of credible authority, someone who imposes respect, to have any chance next to Craig... Can you imagine Craig doing the same things to Bernard Lee ? No, just as I can't imagine Connery or Dalton with Dench... she's be totally walked over by these 2.

    Tough Bond - tough M. Dench-type goes with Lazenby, Brosnan and Moore. Bernard Lee-type goes with Connery, Dalton and Craig.
  • GermanladyGermanlady
    Posts: 6,601
    Quite the opposite here -never cared about Bernard Lee character. He sorta was just THERE, never had any impact on the dynamic between him and Bond really. (Don't jump on me, just saying - against the odds, I know). I found him to be rather weak - he gave me the old man vibes always.
    Dench and Pierce never had the charme she had in her scenes with Craig Bond. So, I am one of the few, who really like her go at the character.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    The Craig/Dench relationship is funnier, in my opinion, specifically their first scene together in CR. "I thought M was just a randomly assigned letter, I had no idea it stood for - " "Utter one my syllable and I'll have you killed!" That was great.
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    edited November 2011 Posts: 4,520
    The Chemistry between Brosnan & Dench of course. The Chemistry between Daniel Craig & Judi Dench is a result of that we see in Twine/DAD.

    The QOS Chemistry between M and Bond represent some of the fans that think is time there stil be chemistry between the actors but not Bond & M. Whyle think there indeed the chacters going to lose some chemistry i think this time it wil comes from Bond his side. The other way around of Die Another Day, like LTK. Agent go rogue with a twist. Also there wil closer together i think. CR there stil be friends, but we not yet got a healty chemistry in the Daniel Craig era. The last time we got a healty chemistry between them be in TMND and til the moment in Twine it going to be personal for her.

    I think it be good what we see QOS (started in CR). M her behaviour be a highlight of the movie. But the same QOS give me the idea it mabey never going to happen she return to her office to sit down for a short part like Goldeneye or TMND.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,718
    never cared about Bernard Lee character.
    Wow, something I don't read often here... Lee is very much liked around here.
  • SAMSAM
    Posts: 107
    Bernard Lee is without a doubt the best M in the entire franchise !!!

    I believe Dame Judi Dench is certainly a fine actress; though I have never been convinced about her as M.
  • jolearonjolearon
    Posts: 645
    Can you imagine Craig doing the same things to Bernard Lee ? No, just as I can't imagine Connery or Dalton with Dench... she's be totally walked over by these 2.

    Tough Bond - tough M. Dench-type goes with Lazenby, Brosnan and Moore. Bernard Lee-type goes with Connery, Dalton and Craig.
    @DaltonCraig007 I agree completely.
    Quite the opposite here -never cared about Bernard Lee character. He sorta was just THERE, never had any impact on the dynamic between him and Bond really. (Don't jump on me, just saying - against the odds, I know). I found him to be rather weak - he gave me the old man vibes always.
    Dench and Pierce never had the charme she had in her scenes with Craig Bond. So, I am one of the few, who really like her go at the character.
    @Germanlady I see your point, my first time around watching Bond movie growing up I never cared for M, because he had such a small role, almost pointless role. I mean for one like Lee and I remember having a hard time with Dench came along with Goldeneye, but well ....... they bother have their qualities. I will say that Dench's character has a much bigger role a "M" than the other Bond films I think, and just because they literally have more shots of her, you get emotions going both ways.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited November 2011 Posts: 24,183
    I'm going to throw some controversial talk into the mix. For me, Craig has good chemistry with everyone, including Dench, even though I don't always agree with the script they get thrown at their mercy.

    As for Brosnan, I have a strong opinion about his relationship with Dench in GE: pure gold. Seriously, that conversation about him being the misogynist and whatnot is my favourite Bond - M conversation ever. Both actors are on fire and Dench won me over instantly. I'm not putting Lee and Brown down as poor elements in the franchise. Overall, Lee is my favourite M of the series and Brown worked well with both Moore and Dalton.

    The point is I can't choose. My instincts tell me to go for the Brosnan-Dench chemistry but that would simply be because they were given the best material to work with. Moreover, I've got a feeling that if Craig and Dench were given a moment as powerful as the one we got in GE, they'd both shine like the brightest stars in the heavens.
  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    Judy Dench has been a very good M since appearing in Goldeneye but no-one will ever be able to beat or rival Bernard Lee in that capacity

    Dench's M always seemed at times to be a little too harsh on Brosnan, as I can't really discuss a M/Craig relationship in QOS, I am only left with what I remember from Royale, there wasn't anything that really stood out, and all my memories are of Brosnan and his four appearances, there was moments when Dench was giving accolades and plaudits to Bond and in the next instance was berating the character and saying how inept he was and like she wanted nothing to do with him

    It's almost certain she will return in Skyfall and I know she's ageing on a bit now, but I hope we see her in another picture, I have no issue with a female M, and she seems to fit the character very well
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    When looking at this from a scientific perspective Craig is a far better and more natural actor than Brosnan and when acting alongside the calibre of Dench, the scenes work all the more better. One of best scenes and this is far better than anything Brosnan did with Dench is in QoS, where, M is going off on one at Bond for the death of Fields. Look at the immediate panic and shock on Craig's face as he struggles to find an answer as to why Field's was killed. The interaction between Dench and Craig was impeccable.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,718
    Wow doubleoego I have the exact opposite reaction... I think Dench is struggling to show authority and power face to Craig... Craig is much too rugged and tough-looking for her. Dench was more credible next to Brosnan, or would have been more credible next to Moore. I think if EON really wanted to make Craig a tough, rugged Bond, they need a much more tough and authoritative M to make a stand... So yes I seriously think for Craig Bond, he needed a tougher, more physically imposing M. Do you think Connery would have listened to Dench's reprimends and orders, even if his films were made in the current era ?
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    edited November 2011 Posts: 4,043
    I think Connery, Lazenby, Moore & Dalton would have done whatever the script told them to. :)

    I can see the point that is being made about Craig needing a tougher and male M and a part of me hopes that Skyfall is Dench's last Bond. The problem with using someone like Dame Judi and an actor of her stature EON feels the need to integrate her into the plot that much more, as PB's tenure went on she became more prevalent, TWINE being the worst example.

    BB & MGW love having her sparring with an actor of DC's calibre and I think if anything she'll be getting even more screen time in Skyfall but I hope that is because she is bowing out with Bond 23 but I'll guess we'll see.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Craig/Dench for me. They have a really interesting dynamic, with Bond getting his chops busted by M in a more entertaining way than the "stiff" dynamic of Brosnan/Dench. Maybe I'm biased because I love Craig's Bond, and maybe I am fogged because of my dislike for the majority of Brosnan's Bond films, but nonetheless it is how I feel. Craig just has better talent that Brosnan and it is more believable and interesting with him and Dench because of how he plays Bond. It also shows a real growing trust between the two that I didn't feel from GE to TND to TWINE and to DAD.
  • GermanladyGermanlady
    Posts: 6,601
    Wow doubleoego I have the exact opposite reaction... I think Dench is struggling to show authority and power face to Craig... Craig is much too rugged and tough-looking for her. Dench was more credible next to Brosnan, or would have been more credible next to Moore. I think if EON really wanted to make Craig a tough, rugged Bond, they need a much more tough and authoritative M to make a stand... So yes I seriously think for Craig Bond, he needed a tougher, more physically imposing M. Do you think Connery would have listened to Dench's reprimends and orders, even if his films were made in the current era ?
    I think, this is the first compliment, you ever paid him in saying, he is more man, then Brosnan was. To me in this lays the more interesting chemistry. For Craig Bond it is indeed tough to being lectured by a woman and not a man. Its easier to take instructions from a man and obey, from a woman there is much more struggle, of which we see a lot and I do like that. This is nothing, you can create with a man...
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    edited April 2013 Posts: 12,837
    brosnan/dench, im sick of the whole craig/dench situation. M finally trusts bond, now in skyfall bond isn't going to trust M, when will it end!!!

    and yes, i never really appreciated bernard lee because he was just there, but looking back and looking at the situation now, i like it that way. Denchs M is too soft and to over-involved.

    if dench was with dalton or connery, imagine the things they could've got away with. "Sorry M I didn't stop Blofeld in time because I was really hung over this morning" "well bond at least I know I can trust you"
  • boldfingerboldfinger
    Posts: 5,767
    While I´m still in a Brosnan denial phase (lasting about half a year so far) simply because I think he doesn´t carry the whole thing enough, the confrontation between his mysoginist Bond and the rather feminist M was brilliant, you could really feel how p+++ed off Bond was at having a female boss.

    With Craig and Dench, I must say I haven´t got any complaints either. The relationship so far was summed up best with M´s words in CR, ´I knew it was too early to promote you´, which reflect Bond´s general point of development in CR and QOS.

    So, while Brosnan and Dench had a theme of gender superiority, Craig and Dench rather have a theme of denying authority. Which of course doesn´t grasp it all, because Craig´s Bond dealt with a love affair on a much deeper level than Brosnan´s Bond could have hoped to, which again had influence on his behaviour toward M.

    I certainly prefer Craig over Brosnan, but as far as the Bond-M relationship is concerned, I can´t say I prefer one over the other.
  • 00Beast00Beast
    Posts: 4,762
    Brosnan and Dench: Office scene in GE, scene at Scottish castle in TWINE, medical ship in DAD, and the subway station in DAD

    Craig and Dench: scene at the beach house in CR, on the phone at the end of CR, right before White's interrogation in QoS, and the ending of QoS

    Both have one of the best relationships between 007 and his boss, but I give this one to Brosnan and Dench. True, I am a Brosnan fan, but those scenes mentioned above say it all, especially the more intense ones like at the castle and at the medical ship.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    00Beast, you pointed out the best scenes with Bond and M in the past six films, but you missed one: M's apartment in CR. Best Bond/M scene in any film.
  • OHMSS69OHMSS69
    Posts: 2,341
    I can't say. Judi is such a good actress and professional that she hits it off and has chemistry in whatever roles she does. She was great with both Pierce and Craig. I liked her in "Notes on a Scandal" with Cate Blanchette and she rocks in "J Edger" with Leonardo di Caprio.
  • 00Beast00Beast
    Posts: 4,762
    Agent007391 wrote:
    00Beast, you pointed out the best scenes with Bond and M in the past six films, but you missed one: M's apartment in CR. Best Bond/M scene in any film.

    Ah yes, I did forget that one. "Bond...don't ever break into my apartment again." A classic!
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited November 2011 Posts: 24,183
    Germanlady wrote:
    DaltonCraig007 wrote:

    I think, this is the first compliment, you ever paid him in saying, he is more man, then Brosnan was.

    DC received death threads from Craig. He's now going to lead a PR campaign for Craig. :P
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,800
    Dench is a great actress to be sure, but she really had no business being in a total reboot of the franchise other than to be set up to be killed to make it a really PERSONAL Bond movie for Craig's third. IMO, of course.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    chrisisall wrote:
    Dench is a great actress to be sure, but she really had no business being in a total reboot of the franchise other than to be set up to be killed to make it a really PERSONAL Bond movie for Craig's third. IMO, of course.
    The three films are all about how she basically maternally nurtures Bond from a reckless rookie in the start of CR into a competent agent that overflows with duty and loyalty to England and the service in Skyfall. Dan and Judi are the best Bond/M we have had. Their relationship goes so much farther beyond the usual-

    M: "Here's you mission."
    Bond: "Cool. Laters!"

    -and instead gives us the greatest depth between the pair that we have seen. It is because of how Dan and Judi play their roles so well and how the characters and their relationship are written and visualized that make Skyfall's ending such an emotional and personal moment. To me, saying that M only existed to die at the end of Skyfall for some payoff is an insult to the character, quite frankly.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited April 2013 Posts: 17,800
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    The three films are all about how she basically maternally nurtures Bond from a reckless rookie in the start of CR into a competent agent that overflows with duty and loyalty to England

    Funny... I don't remember Bond needing any maternal nurturing in the novels...
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    chrisisall wrote:
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    The three films are all about how she basically maternally nurtures Bond from a reckless rookie in the start of CR into a competent agent that overflows with duty and loyalty to England

    Funny... I don't remember Bond needing any maternal nurturing in the novels...
    Who says everything has to be from Fleming? And judging by his beliefs and the period you wouldn't see that content in the books anyway, considering how trumped on women were and how M would never in a million years have been a female, so you can't really judge the films for that anyway.

    And by the way: I don't remember a Lotus going underwater, a Blofeld in drag, campy lines and OTT gags, a celebrity statues one-dimensional and superhuman 007, or ditzy Bond girls in the novels either, yet we had to deal with that torture for years on end. The point is, if you want faithful adaptions of the text don't look to most of the films, especially the Moore era. I can't believe some of the stuff they got away with that really desecrates on Fleming's creation.
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