Does anyone actually like AVTAK

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Comments

  • edited February 2013 Posts: 344
    I like bits of AVTAK, and I certainly don't think it is the worst of the Bond films but it could, and should, have been so much better. Moore should have bailed after the success of Octopussy. Winning the Battle of the Bonds would have been a good place to go out. I think he sensed that at the time. He didn't even view the rushes of AVTAK. At the end of each days filming he usually viewed the rushes, so this was very unusual. Something wasn't right. Mother Nature finally caught up with Rog (that's not to say that I don't pray every day that I'll look as good when I reach 57) but he still had the timing, and the 'feel' of the character. Many of AVTAK's best moments are due to him.

    Make no mistake, by 1985, Moore was utterly comfortable as James Bond. Had they been bravely realistic and produced an 'ageing Bond' screenplay, which showed 007 adapting to the inevitable creep of time, then they might have surprised a few people, and produced a stronger swansong for their leading man. As it was, they produced a bitter-sweet film, where, occasionally, like an ageing sports star grasping for former glories, Moore managed to turn back the clock, but only in flashes.

    With AVTAK's many faults, it still holds a sentimental place in my affections, because it was the final appearance of Lois Maxwell and Roger Moore, two titans of the series. After the climactic battle on top of the Golden Gate Bridge, which featured a mad old Nazi scientist trying to kill Bond with a stick of dynamite, and the dispatch of a tremendously eccentric, and utterly over-the-top, villain (all down to intuitive improvisation - the secret of genius) Bond and Stacy Sutton are sat on top of the bridge, probably with bits of airship (and mad old Nazi scientist) all around them, and then Bond delivers his final quip of the, quite frankly, golden Moore era:

    "There's never a cab when you want one."

    *wipes a manly tear from the eye*

    And so ended the era of Rog. For good or ill, Bond would never be quite the same again.

    I still miss him. I'm a sentimentalist. I'm the kind of nostalgic fool who LOVES it when old sports stars show flashes of their former glory. I'm a sucker for a Steve Davis run in the Snooker World Championship, I watched Ian Botham in his twilight days, desperately wanting him to 'do' the Aussies one last time, I'm glad I'm not old enough to remember Muhammad Ali's final fights. So I can't *quite* hate AVTAK. There is room for sentiment in this extraordinary film series.
  • Posts: 1,052
    Jones-The-Bond, your post sums up many of my feelings, even regarding Steve Davis!
  • I think that had AVTAK had been made at Moore's prime - after TSWLM perhaps - then it would've been cited as one of his best. Poor Roger's old age really brought down the film for me.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    It's far from the best, and not so far from the worst, actually it is the worst imo. It stinks of staleness and its devoid of any energy, any... oomph.
  • A View to a Kill remains a favourite of mine, despite all of its flaws. I know that it's nowhere near a perfect Bond film, but there's something about it that still thrills me each time I watch it. It may be partially down to the fact that it was the first Bond film I ever saw, so this is where the Bond love-affair all started for me.

    Zorin remains one of the franchise's greatest villains. Mayday was also a plus for me. The bed-in with Rog still gives me shivers (not the good kind), but I can overlook it. These are still 2 of the more interesting characters in the Bond series.

    Stacey Sutton is a shrieking mess and probably the worst thing about the movie. The 'JAAAMES' hollering is just way too much. You kinda wish that Bond had left her in that lift shaft in City Hall. Ok that's harsh, I know.

    Anyway, in summary - it's a hot mess, but one hell of a ride.
  • doubleonothingdoubleonothing Los Angeles
    Posts: 864
    I love it! It's flawed, certainly, but no more flawed than say DAF or YOLT.
  • I rank it near the bottom and I think it's one of Moore's weaker films but I find it entertaining. Sir Rog is on top form outside of the action scenes and Walken is brilliant as always.
  • edited February 2013 Posts: 1,052
    Should it hold the title of most 80's Bond film?
  • edited February 2013 Posts: 12,837
    Should it hold the title of most 80's Bond film?

    I think LTK feels a bit more 80s in some ways.
  • I would of said License to Kill also, just has the feeling of the end of decade, and James Bond moving on and into the 1990s. But View to a Kill is probably just as much that time (1980s cinema) as anything you could name. I felt characters like Scarpine, Mortner and even Ivanova were utilized enough, in that they weren't featured too long or too short

    Bizarre cameo with Dolph Lundgren who was only on screen for a matter of seconds, and Walter Gottell didn't feature as prominently as Octopussy, and the Keystone Cops take with the San Francisco Police Department was just embarrassing rather than humorous. Look at the ridiculous fire truck sequence with Moore attempting some Buster Keaton-esque nonsense, that epitomized everything that was wrong with that years release and Moore staying too long in the part

    Add to that, the nauseating Roberts character, ill advised Grace Jones Bond 'girl' idea, Chris Walken - again - wasted as the main adversary and other cringeworthy nonsense here and there, and sadly, it's a disaster for everyone involved
  • 002002
    Posts: 581
    The Film has many good things in it:

    * Patrick McNee and Roger Moore have great Chemestary
    * Max Zorin is one of the best Henchman
    * The Music is Fantastic- John Barry's Best work
    * Roger is still good...a bit old looking in some scenes but some scenes are good
    * Its a John Glen Film and i enjoy mostly of all of them
    * Great Climatic battle on the Bridge
    * a Great PTS

    The bad things are well some casting choices- particulary Stacey Sutton and some very obvious Stunt doubles
  • edited February 2013 Posts: 1,661
    I love AVTAK - an old fashioned Cubby Broccoli/Moore James Bond film. I think AVTAK has the all-time greatest opening shot of any film in the franchise. The first image we see is of the icebergs. Incredible. It takes you to another world.

    The film also has a moment I've never seen in any other film - a guy skiing vertically straight down a slope. I didn't even know that was possible but I remember seeing that and going "wow!" That one moment sums up the magic of James Bond.
  • AliAli
    Posts: 319
    I do like it, but mainly down to age and the theme tune. I was only 14 when it came out. Looking back, it has a few moments, but Rog chatting up girls a third his age is cringeworthy.
  • Posts: 2,341
    002 wrote:
    The Film has many good things in it:

    * Patrick McNee and Roger Moore have great Chemestary
    * Max Zorin is one of the best Henchman
    * The Music is Fantastic- John Barry's Best work
    * Roger is still good...a bit old looking in some scenes but some scenes are good
    * Its a John Glen Film and i enjoy mostly of all of them
    * Great Climatic battle on the Bridge
    * a Great PTS

    The bad things are well some casting choices- particulary Stacey Sutton and some very obvious Stunt doubles

    I agree with most of what you say. I always liked it. AVTAK is not the worst Moore Bond and I find it more enjoyable than Brosnan's final three.
    I am annoyed at all the hate that Grace Jones/May Day gets. I think May Day is a great character. Bizaare looking of course, lots of Bond villains have a bizaare appearance. So she does not have the looks of Gloria Hendry or Halle Barry or Naomi Harris but I never had a problem with her appearance.

    Walken is grand, I liked all his gallery of rogues: Mortmer, Scarpine, May Day, Jenny Flex...
    Yes, John Glen does a great job in his Bond films and I find his five films enjoyable . One cannot say the same for Guy Hamilton...
  • edited February 2013 Posts: 11,189
    Moore massaging Fiona Fulliton while naked in a hot tub:

    "Feels even better from where I'm sitting...would you like it harder"

    Oh god!! :\"> :\"> :\">
  • 'The bubbles tickle my - Tchaikovsky' ...

    That was actually a decent line and fun moment that year, to be fair

    I don't know why they had Moore with so many women that year, maybe they just wanted Moore to go out with a bang that year, no pun intentional, but the conquests of the Alaska trip, Mayday, Sutton and Ivanova (I think that was all ?!), not to mention some other quips along the way, (I'm an early riser myself) etc, I mean, there was more going on that year in way of it all, than any other James Bond release I can think of

    The only bits I liked was when Moore managed to be serious (in moments few and far betwen), and the Eiffel tower sequence, (great location filming, despite seeing more of Bond's stunt double than the man himself)

    One thing I never understood, was when Zorin was having the meeting on his airship, and one of the men wants out, Mayday takes him away and tells him she'll get a drink if I remember, and he starts to go down some steps, but there's nowhere to go to. It looks ridiculous whenever you see it ?

    It did generate probably the best line of the entire movie though, when Walken quips - "Does anyone else want to drop out ?"

    But it's not enough to save it from the mire of the lost and forgotten James Bond releases
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited February 2013 Posts: 13,355
    One thing I never understood, was when Zorin was having the meeting on his airship, and one of the men wants out, Mayday takes him away and tells him she'll get a drink if I remember, and he starts to go down some steps, but there's nowhere to go to. It looks ridiculous whenever you see it ?

    At the bottom of the stairs I think you were able to turn left and right.

    I agree. Great line by Zorin, maybe the best in the film.
  • I've always had a soft spot for AVTAK, it's the first one i remember watching with my dad, i must have been about 7 or 8 and thought it was cool because of the airship. Then my dad realising i enjoyed it, put GF on and i was hooked on Bond.
  • cwl007cwl007 England
    Posts: 611
    Just finished watching AVTAK, inspired to 're-discover it after reading this thread. I regret it now. It is a very weak entry, has a boring climax, and Tanya Roberts WOW! Was she really an actor?
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited February 2013 Posts: 24,157
    cwl007 wrote:
    Just finished watching AVTAK, inspired to 're-discover it after reading this thread. I regret it now. It is a very weak entry, has a boring climax, and Tanya Roberts WOW! Was she really an actor?

    I'm quite certain she was an actress. ;-)

    Tanya, dear Tanya, takes more heat for her part in AVTAK than she should, I think. Her acting skills may convince only few in AVTAK, but she can deliver an enjoyable performance in some very specific roles. When she acted in That 70s Show, she often went OTT but she played her part terrifically. She was undoubtedly miscast in AVTAK and it brought her very little positive fame.
    But, if we are completely fair, we can also see things going wrong for almost every actress on the planet, cast to play Stacey. Possibly one of the ultimate lows in character writing in 50 years of Bond cinema, Stacey Sutton is about as thin as a sheet of paper in the King James Bible. She neither moves forward nor responds to the natural flow of the story but she acts as a deliberate data dumping force instead. And only in some initial scenes for she spends the second half of the film being a burden to Bond, a classic case of the brainless damsel in distress and those two seconds of clumsy hero stuff aboard the blimp suffice only to credit her with more hoarse screams. My point is that we can't blame the total failure of Stacey on Tanya Roberts. She was dealt material that set her up for a catastrophe right from the start.
    There's one positive element, however, though a highly subjective one. But I won't lie. I think Tanya Roberts was smoking hot in AVTAK. And I consider Roger Moore, despite his own age concerns, a lucky man. If nothing else, at least she oozed beauty and sexiness. Her symmetrical face, soft skin, long blonde hairs and excellent shape all work for me. She's definitely a point of distraction, but rather than through her acting or character design, I'd say through her looks and I mean that in a positive sense. I'm even willing to take this so far as to claim that Roberts' great looks make her one of the few shining stars in the overall dark blanket that AVTAK represents for me.

  • Posts: 11,425
    Haven't watched AVTAK for years but from memory I don't remember it being worse than any of the Brosnan films. It's got Rog in it so it's already got a lot going for it. Add in Max Zorin machine gunning his own henchmen and you've got one of my favourite villain scenes. Barry score and John Glen direction mean it generally feels like a proper Bond movie.

    Yes Rog looks past it but so does DC in much of SF

    Not a classic but quite far from being the worst in the series.
  • I realize that Brosnan isn't your favorite Bond, and I can appreciate that thinking, but have to say A View to a Kill is a worse Bond release (with regards to Brosnan) than only Die Another Day, and even then - not by that great a distance

    Yes it has Moore involved, who previously did a good job as 007, but 1985 (finally) brought to an end, twelve years as Bond for Moore, and by then, had simply overstayed his welcome. I don't really get any pleasure for bashing this Bond release, I don't get any pleasure from attacking any Bond release, but hard truths are required sometimes, and here is no exception. It's one of the very worst the 50 year franchise has to offer. I estimate only about 10 per cent of the movie is watchable, and other than that, it's just an embarrassing and mundane viewing

    Incidentally, I'm adamant on the airship, that he's simply walking into nowhere, with simply no other choice of direction. Take a look yourselves next time - it's absurd
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