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Mayday, Mayday, Mayday - Air incidents/accidents

PropertyOfALadyPropertyOfALady Colders Federation CEO
edited April 2018 in General Discussion Posts: 3,675
With Southwest Airlines Flight 1380 dominating United States news cycles recently, I wanted to ask you guys what you thought of air incidents past and present. This can include accidents where everyone survives (U.S. Airways Flight 1549), some survive (United Airlines Flight 232, 111 deaths, 185 survivors), or none at all (Germanwings Flight 9525).

From DC-10s to A320s, nothing is off limits. And I will even allow you to discuss aviation news if you wish.

I'll close by showing one of my favourite jets in one of my favourite liveries.

boeing747-400british-airways.jpg.crop_display-2.jpg?itok=ECzEPUfH
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Comments

  • patbpatb
    Posts: 4,617
    As someone who pays a keen interest in aviation, the thing that bugs me most is the dreadful media coverage on these events. Little attention to facts and anything to make them more dramatic. The hero pilot has become a horrible cliche for example.

  • PropertyOfALadyPropertyOfALady Colders Federation CEO
    Posts: 3,675
    patb wrote: »
    As someone who pays a keen interest in aviation, the thing that bugs me most is the dreadful media coverage on these events. Little attention to facts and anything to make them more dramatic. The hero pilot has become a horrible cliche for example.

    Although it's pretty awesome that she was a female Navy member.
  • PropertyOfALadyPropertyOfALady Colders Federation CEO
    Posts: 3,675
    The Federal Aviation Administration has today issued an Emergency Airworthiness Directive, ordering airlines to inspect engines on 737s with 30,000 takeoff/landing cycles within 20 days, with more time being given to those with fewer cycles.

    Meanwhile, Southwest has issued letters to each of the passengers onboard 1380 with $5,000 in compensation and $1,000 travel vouchers.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    edited April 2018 Posts: 13,941
    Okay, back in the 1980s a couple years after the event and again in the 1990s I was a soldier in Korea and read 5 or 6 books on this subject. Then and since I've been on commercial flights following (successfully) the intended flight pattern from Anchorage Alaska to Seoul Korea or Tokyo Japan.

    Korean Air Lines Flight 007

    Flight KAL007 (KE007) from New York City to Anchorage, Alaska, then on to Seoul Korea is shot down 1 September 1983 by air to air missiles from a Soviet Su-15 interceptor for wandering into Soviet airspace. 269 passengers and crew killed, among them US Representative from Georgia Larry McDonald. Black boxes released by Russia in 1993.

    This is quite a Cold war gets hot tale, with President Reagan (probably rightly) using the political capital for US gain by accusing the Soviets of treachery killing innocent civilians for no reason. In truth, there was something else going on with a series of navigation errors aligning to put the aircraft in the wrong airspace. At the wrong time--a US Air Force reconnaissance plane maneuvering in the area (and likely its similar profile seen from below) contributed to the confusion and the shootdown.

    Here's a lot of detail from Wikipedia.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007

    Map view.
    800px-KAL007.svg.png

    Boeing 747-230B HL7442
    1200px-KAL007747-2.png

    Boeing RC-135
    2008-12-15%200861.jpg

    Soviet Su-15 Interceptor
    1_13.jpg

    Time Magazine and Newsweek covers of the day.
    -350UrBYFOI.jpg7-17-newsweek-cover.jpg

    Among the books and materials I searched out, a favorite is the HBO film about the event. Not a high level production or a by the book reflection of US Military Intelligence response, but an interesting approach to the American follow-up on the air staff level. And it sets up a scene near the end with Soon Tek-Oh as another Korean Air Lines pilot revealing his solution to the mystery of the shootdown--beyond identifying the navigation errors he blames
    the Korean pilot's pride--his pride could not let him admit to a mistake made at the start of the leg out of Anchorage.
    It's worth seeing. Michael Moriarty is engaging and fun in a folksy way.
    Shane Rimmer as Admiral Riley adds credibility.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tailspin:_Behind_the_Korean_Airliner_Tragedy

    MV5BMTI4OWZlOWItNTc1My00ZGE3LTg5NjYtOTU1YTBmOTQ4YTMwXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyMTE4NzE2NjE@._V1_UX182_CR0,0,182,268_AL_.jpg
    Tailspin: Behind the Korean Airliner Tragedy, David Darlow, 1989.
    (Soon Tek-Oh appears 1:25, right after the flags.)
  • PropertyOfALadyPropertyOfALady Colders Federation CEO
    Posts: 3,675
    Have you watched Air Crash Investigation? They covered this one. It's a really great TV show.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,941
    I'll check it out, @PropertyOfALady, thanks.
  • PropertyOfALadyPropertyOfALady Colders Federation CEO
    Posts: 3,675
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mayday_episodes
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    In Diamonds Are Forever, while in Tiffany Case s apartment, Bond puts on a record.

    He skips La Vie en Rose, because it has memories for him.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,348
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    In Diamonds Are Forever, while in Tiffany Case s apartment, Bond puts on a record.

    He skips La Vie en Rose, because it has memories for him.

    Yes, I can see why he would skip it. Memories of that night with MayDay in AVTAK....
  • PropertyOfALadyPropertyOfALady Colders Federation CEO
    Posts: 3,675
    Today's air accident: Aloha 243, April 28 1988.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloha_Airlines_Flight_243
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,348
    PropertyOfALady wrote: »
    Today's air accident: Aloha 243, April 28 1988.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloha_Airlines_Flight_243

    30 years to the day.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited April 2018 Posts: 23,883
    In terms of disappearances, I've always been curious about Malaysian Airlines flight MH370. There is something about the way that whole thing played out in the media that smells and doesn't make sense to me (the old b/s sensor which has been accurate more times than not was tingling). The search party was going in one direction and then the Australian prime minister diverted them towards their shores. I wonder what they would have found if they kept going in the direction that they were headed in initially.
    --

    In terms of accidents, the most horrific one I know of is the runway collision between two 747 airliners in Tenerife in 1977. When I was a kid someone gave me a book on disasters as a birthday gift and this one impacted me. A truly dreadful tragedy.

    **If you see a popup window in the Telegraph article below just click 'close' and you should be able to read it without signing up**

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/comment/tenerife-airport-disaster/

  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    PropertyOfALady wrote: »
    Today's air accident: Aloha 243, April 28 1988.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloha_Airlines_Flight_243
    Testament to the strength of the airframe that it held together despite such a massive chunk going missing.
    bondjames wrote: »
    In terms of accidents, the most horrific one I know of is the collision between two 747 airliners in Tenerife in 1977. When I was a kid someone gave me a book on disasters as a birthday gift and this one impacted me. A truly dreadful tragedy.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/comment/tenerife-airport-disaster/

    That's probably the most spectacular and despite the safety flaws re operating in fog etc ultimately it came down to a captain who thought he knew better and a co pilot who did know better but felt he didn't have the authority to overrule KLM's star pilot.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    TheWizardOfIce wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    In terms of accidents, the most horrific one I know of is the collision between two 747 airliners in Tenerife in 1977. When I was a kid someone gave me a book on disasters as a birthday gift and this one impacted me. A truly dreadful tragedy.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/comment/tenerife-airport-disaster/

    That's probably the most spectacular and despite the safety flaws re operating in fog etc ultimately it came down to a captain who thought he knew better and a co pilot who did know better but felt he didn't have the authority to overrule KLM's star pilot.
    That Telegraph article I posted above (click 'close' if you get a paywall notice and you should be able to read it) recounts the way it played out. Chilling and you can tell that everyone caught on just a bit too late that things were about to get catastrophic. A tragic confluence of events.
  • PropertyOfALadyPropertyOfALady Colders Federation CEO
    Posts: 3,675
    bondjames wrote: »
    TheWizardOfIce wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    In terms of accidents, the most horrific one I know of is the collision between two 747 airliners in Tenerife in 1977. When I was a kid someone gave me a book on disasters as a birthday gift and this one impacted me. A truly dreadful tragedy.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/comment/tenerife-airport-disaster/

    That's probably the most spectacular and despite the safety flaws re operating in fog etc ultimately it came down to a captain who thought he knew better and a co pilot who did know better but felt he didn't have the authority to overrule KLM's star pilot.
    That Telegraph article I posted above (click 'close' if you get a paywall notice and you should be able to read it) recounts the way it played out. Chilling and you can tell that everyone caught on just a bit too late that things were about to get catastrophic. A tragic confluence of events.
    bondjames wrote: »
    TheWizardOfIce wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    In terms of accidents, the most horrific one I know of is the collision between two 747 airliners in Tenerife in 1977. When I was a kid someone gave me a book on disasters as a birthday gift and this one impacted me. A truly dreadful tragedy.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/comment/tenerife-airport-disaster/

    That's probably the most spectacular and despite the safety flaws re operating in fog etc ultimately it came down to a captain who thought he knew better and a co pilot who did know better but felt he didn't have the authority to overrule KLM's star pilot.
    That Telegraph article I posted above (click 'close' if you get a paywall notice and you should be able to read it) recounts the way it played out. Chilling and you can tell that everyone caught on just a bit too late that things were about to get catastrophic. A tragic confluence of events.

    Indeed. Van Zanten should have waited. It was his fault, and of course, KLM standards at that time were to obey the senior officers. It's shocking that anyone on the Pan Am survived.

    About MH370, I'm beginning to think that we'll never really know what happened, with so far, very little debris recovered. There's just nothing to go on.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited April 2018 Posts: 23,883
    PropertyOfALady wrote: »
    About MH370, I'm beginning to think that we'll never really know what happened, with so far, very little debris recovered. There's just nothing to go on.
    I agree. The sudden detour by the search parties towards another area just set the nose off, and I've learned to trust it. Something tells me there's far more to this story than we'll ever know.

    Regarding the KLM/Pan Am crash, reading that article gave me the chills, and I'm reasonably desensitized to disaster on account of how much of it we see these days. There were so many things that just came together in a bad way that day, and the fact that the Pan Am plane had a famous history further increases the surreal nature of it all. Truly horrific.
  • PropertyOfALadyPropertyOfALady Colders Federation CEO
    Posts: 3,675
    Today's air accident: National 102, April 29 2013.



    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Airlines_Flight_102
  • Agent_99Agent_99 enjoys a spirited ride as much as the next girl
    Posts: 3,181
    I'm a big fan of http://www.airlive.net/ for all the latest news on who's diverted where because of what. Fascinating stuff.

    My other top tip if you live in the UK, especially if you're in reach of London, is the Royal Aeronautical Society. They run loads of really interesting lectures at their HQ and across the country, you don't have to be a member and it's all free.
  • PropertyOfALadyPropertyOfALady Colders Federation CEO
    Posts: 3,675
    I never knew about airlive.net. Interesting site.
  • PropertyOfALadyPropertyOfALady Colders Federation CEO
    Posts: 3,675
    Can't find an accident for April 30.
  • PropertyOfALadyPropertyOfALady Colders Federation CEO
    Posts: 3,675
    Today's air accident: 1957 Blackbushe Viking accident, May 1, 1957.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1957_Blackbushe_Viking_accident

  • patbpatb
    Posts: 4,617
    I watched a doc on MH370 last night on Channel 5. Usually, these things are rubbish but this was pretty good. The evidence re the route was all over the place. I think many countries woud have struggled with the investigation and search based on the fragments of evidence they had. The conspiracy theories are just filling the gaps due to the lack of hard evidence. We may simply never know and it's had to come up with a scenario regarding how new reliable evidence will come up.

    We live in such a "forensic" culture that simply saying "we dont know" does not seem to be an option anymore.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    patb wrote: »
    I watched a doc on MH370 last night on Channel 5. Usually, these things are rubbish but this was pretty good. The evidence re the route was all over the place. I think many countries woud have struggled with the investigation and search based on the fragments of evidence they had. The conspiracy theories are just filling the gaps due to the lack of hard evidence. We may simply never know and it's had to come up with a scenario regarding how new reliable evidence will come up.

    We live in such a "forensic" culture that simply saying "we dont know" does not seem to be an option anymore.

    Indeed...its very frustrating..someone somewhere in a Government knows something.

  • Agent_99Agent_99 enjoys a spirited ride as much as the next girl
    Posts: 3,181
    PropertyOfALady wrote: »
    Today's air accident: 1957 Blackbushe Viking accident, May 1, 1957.

    I had lunch at Blackbushe on Good Friday!

    (I have lunch/coffee/afternoon tea at airfields quite often. They're good places to stop and there's usually something to look at.)
  • patbpatb
    Posts: 4,617
    Redhill was very good untill it burnt down, great fry ups (we digress)
  • Agent_99Agent_99 enjoys a spirited ride as much as the next girl
    Posts: 3,181
    patb wrote: »
    Redhill was very good untill it burnt down, great fry ups (we digress)

    Well, it's kind of an aviation incident :) Oh no, I didn't know about that! Enjoyed their catering on at least one occasion.
  • patbpatb
    Posts: 4,617
    Its been replaced by an up market coffee shop, not worth going, shame,

    Fairoaks also good, Popham does the best bacon baggets in the World according to my sons!
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    barryt007 wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    I watched a doc on MH370 last night on Channel 5. Usually, these things are rubbish but this was pretty good. The evidence re the route was all over the place. I think many countries woud have struggled with the investigation and search based on the fragments of evidence they had. The conspiracy theories are just filling the gaps due to the lack of hard evidence. We may simply never know and it's had to come up with a scenario regarding how new reliable evidence will come up.

    We live in such a "forensic" culture that simply saying "we dont know" does not seem to be an option anymore.

    Indeed...its very frustrating..someone somewhere in a Government knows something.
    They know more than they've let on imho. I wouldn't be surprised if we learned some years down the road (once everybody has forgotten about it) that it was shot out of the sky, probably accidentally. That's what happened with some other liners in the 80's during the Cold War, based on my understanding.
  • patbpatb
    Posts: 4,617
    Perfect example of what I was saying. Not accepting a vaccum of evidence and replacing it with a theory for which there is also zero evidence but fits in better with an agenda etc.

    Who is "they". Did the British goverment force Inmarsat and its staff (British company) to falsify the data? How? Why? Who? etc etc. And that data had to match the data released from the Malasian Armed forces radar track? And the fragment of wing was found in the genuine area where the aircraft was "shot down" and secretly transported into the fake crash zone. Or its not genuine and faked by a third party? And all physical evidence from the "shoot down" area has been found and covered up? C-mon.

    Lets stick to Occam's Razor, rarely lets us down.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited May 2018 Posts: 23,883
    I don't have a competing theory. It's merely speculation on my part that something else could have happened rather than what we have been told officially.

    I don't blindly believe everything I'm fed by Govts. Experience (and decades following foreign policy as well as at one time drafting communication narratives for public consumption) has taught me that. In this particular case, something doesn't add up for me.

    There have been other instances where down the road we tend to learn more after the fact. I'm just saying I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case here, that's all.
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